/ EHIC and driving permits for the EU

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artif 10 Oct 2019

Looks like The EHIC is going to be worthless at the end of the month

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49989227

Also an international driving permit will be required in France amongst others

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47459859

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nniff 10 Oct 2019
In reply to artif:

Please put your clocks back 70 years in November.

Mind you, you could still hang people then - I can think of a few good candidates to take the stretch out of the rope....

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baron 10 Oct 2019
In reply to nniff:

> Please put your clocks back 70 years in November.

> Mind you, you could still hang people then - I can think of a few good candidates to take the stretch out of the rope....

Is it not possible to make your point without resorting to this  sort of language?

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Ramblin dave 10 Oct 2019
In reply to baron:

> Is it not possible to make your point without resorting to this  sort of language?

I get the point of not wishing violent death on people under any circumstances. But is it alright to wish easily manageable illnesses on them, that are only likely to be fatal if medicine supplies are interrupted by a no deal Brexit? Because that's what the leading Brexiteers seem to have no qualms about actually forcing on other people in reality, let alone hypothetically.

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Pyreneenemec 10 Oct 2019
In reply to baron:

> Is it not possible to make your point without resorting to this  sort of language?

Given the low  I.Q level of most Brexiteers, it is a language that most of them will understand. However, no generalization is intended.

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jimtitt 10 Oct 2019

From my  years travelling before the EU and in countries outside by various forms of transport the list of documents I've needed is:-

Visa

Health certificate

Proof of ownership for the vehicle

Proof of fixed residence in the country of origin

Proof of sufficient funds for the duration of stay.

Proof of funds to return to country of origin

Customs carnet and bond for the value of the means of transport and all contents

International driving licence

Health insurance

Vehicle insurance valid in the land you are visiting

And there's probably ones I've forgotten or never needed!

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Sir Chasm 10 Oct 2019
In reply to artif:

You'll only depress yourself focusing on brexit negatives. Why not cheer yourself up by listing all the positive things brexit will bring, not to mention all the plus points the process has already brought the country?

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Rob Exile Ward 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

'Why not cheer yourself up by listing all the positive things brexit will bring, not to mention all the plus points the process has already brought the country?'

Well, that will certainly save time, so here goes:

Er, that's it.

Post edited at 12:13
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Sir Chasm 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

That's just the defeatist remoaner attitude we've come to expect. Here, I'll start and you join in:

Blue passports

Shiny new 50p coin

Fewer brown people

Paralysed government

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artif 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

It was more of an informative post, to highlight to anyone driving over to or in France etc that they may not have the required documents. As a UK number plate is pretty distinguishable and the French police like an easy target its worth the heads up

Knowledge is power and all that 

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Blue Straggler 10 Oct 2019
In reply to artif:

>  As a UK number plate is pretty distinguishable

A UK driver position is also pretty distinguishable in France!

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artif 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I have a rather long story about about a very drunk friend being questioned by a Dutch policeman. The policeman got rather upset when, after some time, my friend pointed out that he wasn't driving, I was (on the other side of the car and teetotal).

We ended up having to empty the car and undergo a full search with sniffer dogs etc. they eventually let us go on our way.

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climbingpixie 10 Oct 2019
In reply to nniff:

> Mind you, you could still hang people then - I can think of a few good candidates to take the stretch out of the rope....

Given the recent calls to the leave side to moderate their language around surrender, treachery etc it would be good if we could lead by example. This sort of comment just provides ammunition to people who want to argue that both sides are just as bad. It might make you feel less frustrated but it's not really adding anything to the argument. 

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Rob Exile Ward 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

Is there talk of an additional bank holiday? To be called 'Boris Day' perhaps?

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Sir Chasm 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Boris Day? Didn't he star in Calamity Johnson?

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fred99 10 Oct 2019
In reply to climbingpixie:

> Given the recent calls to the leave side to moderate their language around surrender, treachery etc it would be good if we could lead by example.

Nuts ! You never get anywhere trying to be "the better person" when dealing with violent scumbags.

With all the threats of violence from the Leave brigade, I've had enough. If I'm threatened I'll retaliate in a manner that will leave no question as to whether or not I'm an easy touch that can be intimidated.

I want Johnson et al to be done for treason, and then treated in exactly the same way as Charles the first (off with his head).

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robert-hutton 10 Oct 2019
In reply to artif:

Sorry but as a 59 year old snowflake, the posting and acceptance of violence to anyone on anyside is out of order and has no place in any topic.

Post edited at 14:06
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artif 10 Oct 2019
In reply to robert-hutton:

And where have I posted anything about violence in this thread?

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Al Randall 10 Oct 2019
In reply to fred99:

It's worth remembering that brexiteers have been labelled ignorant, bigoted, facist, racists for over 3 years both on UKC and in the wider media. Just to put a sense of perspective on this.  I am aware of a regular contributor to this forum who has recently stopped posting and has had to have all references of his profile removed because he received death threats, in his UKC associated email, to himself and his family from remainers who disagreed with his views. Offensive, inflammatory language is just that no matter who it comes from so lets not pretend for a minute that it's confined to one side of the debate. Come on why can't we be nice to each other especially on what is meant to be an informal, friendly forum about an activity that unites us.

Al

Post edited at 14:49
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Ridge 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> That's just the defeatist remoaner attitude we've come to expect. Here, I'll start and you join in:

> Blue passports

> Shiny new 50p coin

> Fewer brown people

> Paralysed government

I suspect any brexiteer expecting fewer brown people is going to get a bit of a shock...

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Bob Kemp 10 Oct 2019
In reply to artif:

Suspect there is an 'artif-nniff' confusion going on there. FFS...

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Mike Stretford 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

> Just to put a sense of perspective on this.  I am aware of a regular contributor to this forum who has recently stopped posting and has had to have all references of his profile removed because he received death threats, in his UKC associated email, to himself and his family from remainers who disagreed with his views.

I don't know about that (surely the user would be reported and banned?), but let's remember a remain MP was murdered by a leave supporter. Many leave supporters tried to ignore it, pretend it didn't happen, and still do. There is good reason to be concerned about these people.

Post edited at 14:56
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Al Randall 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Mike Stretford:

Agreed if by these people you mean those who abuse and threaten.  I'm simply pointing out that it's NOT confined to one side and to link anyone who voted a certain way with this type of behavior is naive and offensive to them.

Post edited at 15:01
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jkarran 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

> It's worth remembering that brexiteers have been labelled ignorant, bigoted, facist, racists for over 3 years both on UKC and in the wider media.

Grab a People's Vote placard, pick a street corner anywhere in the land and brace yourself. Those views, they're not niche, they're commonplace and people have been emboldened by the referendum and the subsequent ruck.

> Just to put a sense of perspective on this.  I am aware of a regular contributor to this forum who has recently stopped posting and has had to have all references of his profile removed because he received death threats, in his UKC associated email, to himself and his family from remainers who disagreed with his views.

Multiple people issued death threats through UKC? That's completely unacceptable. I don't know who you're referring to but you should encourage them to report that to the police.

> Offensive, inflammatory language is just that no matter who it comes from so lets not pretend for a minute that it's confined to one side of the debate. Come on why can't we be nice to each other especially on what is meant to be an informal, friendly forum about an activity that unites us.

I don't suppose it is but I don't buy the each side is equally badly behaved narative.

jk

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Sir Chasm 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

> I am aware of a regular contributor to this forum who has recently stopped posting and has had to have all references of his profile removed because he received death threats, in his UKC associated email, to himself and his family from remainers who disagreed with his views.

This person received more than one death threat from more than one remainer? That is shocking! Please let us know the outcome of the police investigation as soon as possible.

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mullermn 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

>  I'm simply pointing out that it's NOT confined to one side and to link anyone who voted a certain way with this type of behavior is naive and offensive to them.

This is exactly why so many people have objected to the ‘rope’ comment. The fact is this behaviour is heavily weighted to one side, but the odd nasty pro-remain comment is used to pretend it’s all tit-for-tat. That’s simply not true. 

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nniff 10 Oct 2019
In reply to climbingpixie and baron:

There was a time when people had a sense of humour, but not any more on here it would seem. 

If we are being pedantic and, in in taking everything literally and interpreting things in the worst possible light, you are. I made no reference to violence.  I made a light-hearted remark with climbing references to rope-stretch, positioned with a clearly impossible opening remark about putting the clock back 70 years.

If you want to lead by example, then acquiring some common sense would be a good start.

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In reply to Al Randall:

Wow! 

I am really surprised to hear this. 

One thing to remember is that Brexit can be used as a rage outlet for unrelated issues that are wrong with peoples lives. It is likely to be true about some posters here and what you have said probably confirms it.

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Rob Exile Ward 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

'I am aware of a regular contributor to this forum who has recently stopped posting and has had to have all references of his profile removed because he received death threats, in his UKC associated email, to himself and his family from remainers who disagreed with his views. '

Sorry, I don't believe a poster here has received death threats from another UKC poster; I'd be very surprised if ANY remainer had posted death threats ANYWHERE. (Not very funny but obviously joky asides notwithstanding.) 

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Mike Stretford 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward: It sounds odd....I can't believe it wasn't reported to UKC (you can only mail other users through the site). I'm pretty sure if it had been reported to UKC they would have contacted the police, to cover themselves.

Post edited at 15:33
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Robert Durran 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

> It's worth remembering that brexiteers have been labelled ignorant, bigoted, facist, racists for over 3 years both on UKC and in the wider media. 

I hope you are not guilty of making Mark Francois' logical error here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1878700/Video-Self-sparks-anger-claiming-racist-voted-Brexit.html

And obviously the fact that Francois is therefore stupid does not mean that all brexiteers are stupid.

Post edited at 15:44
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off-duty 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> I don't know about that (surely the user would be reported and banned?), but let's remember a remain MP was murdered by a leave supporter. Many leave supporters tried to ignore it, pretend it didn't happen, and still do. There is good reason to be concerned about these people.

I think that's a bit of a misrepresentation. Cox was murdered prior to the referendum, and Mair's motivation were extreme right  wing and white supremacist.

To give him the title of nothing more than a "leave supporter" in the context of the current febrile atmosphere is not really a fair characterisation.

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artif 10 Oct 2019
In reply to artif:

Well that went well, no surprise there.

Think I'll just hide under a rock for a couple of years 

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Mike Stretford 10 Oct 2019
In reply to off-duty:

> I think that's a bit of a misrepresentation.

I don't think it is.

> Cox was murdered prior to the referendum, and Mair's motivation were extreme right  wing and white supremacist.

It was about a week before the referendum. It was febrile atmosphere then as well.

> To give him the title of nothing more than a "leave supporter" in the context of the current febrile atmosphere is not really a fair characterisation.

It is the truth. Surely you don't think I'm implying all leavers are potential terrorists? The point is there is an overlap between a minority of leavers and extreme right wingers capable of violence. Threats have to be taken seriously, and leavers posting pictures of gallows in jest, need to think about who might latch on to that.

Obviously the graffiti before the Tory conference was reprehensible, but I don't think there is a real danger of anti-Tory groups turning violent. What do you think?

Post edited at 17:51
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Tom V 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Mike Stretford:

"..these people".....?

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off-duty 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> I don't think it is.

> It was about a week before the referendum. It was febrile atmosphere then as well.

> It is the truth. Surely you don't think I'm implying all leavers are potential terrorists? The point is there is an overlap between a minority of leavers and extreme right wingers capable of violence. Threats have to be taken seriously, and leavers posting pictures of gallows in jest, need to think about who might latch on to that.

I think highlighting his "leave" views and ignoring his white supremacist and far right views is a polarising comment, whether intentional or not and certainly doesn't contribute to lowering the heat of debate.

> Obviously the graffiti before the Tory conference was reprehensible, but I don't think there is a real danger of anti-Tory groups turning violent. What do you think?

I think I've seen at first hand far more violence from antifa protestors than I have from right wing protestors.

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Lusk 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

Appalling, if it's who I'm thinking of.

I said at time, anyone who suggests I'm a dumb f*ck racist for considering about voting leave one more time, I'll vote leave.  I was hoping for a rational discussion about the whole affair 3  years ago.

What an idiot I was hoping for that!

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Lusk 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Sorry, I don't believe a poster here has received death threats from another UKC poster; I'd be very surprised if ANY remainer had posted death threats ANYWHERE. (Not very funny but obviously joky asides notwithstanding.) 

They were personal emails, allegedly.

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pec 10 Oct 2019
In reply to Pyreneenemec:

> Given the low  I.Q level of most Brexiteers, it is a language that most of them will understand. However, no generalization is intended.


If your IQ is so f***ing good why has it still not occurred to you that remainers spouting that kind of patronising bullsh*t during the referendum campaign is part of the reason why lot of people ended up voting to leave in the first place and the subsequent 3 years of more of the same has only hardened their attitudes.

You clearly struggle to understand basic human psychology despite your IQ.

Post edited at 21:28
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Pyreneenemec 11 Oct 2019
In reply to pec:

> If your IQ is so f***ing good why has it still not occurred to you that remainers spouting that kind of patronising bullsh*t during the referendum campaign is part of the reason why lot of people ended up voting to leave in the first place and the subsequent 3 years of more of the same has only hardened their attitudes.

> You clearly struggle to understand basic human psychology despite your IQ.

Fair enough, if you spout that a group of people are thick and will vote accordingly then you shouldn't be surprised at the outcome !  You could also say that this group was more easily manipulated, which again explains the majority vote to leave. The less well educated tended to vote leave, as post referendum studies suggest.  Of course, one should not confuse educational attainment  and I.Q . 

You may interpret my post as suggesting that I have a high I.Q  but I do not make such a claim. What I will say is that I think I have a sufficiently high enough I.Q to see the 'bigger picture' of  the advantages of membership of the European Union, advantages that most  Leavers fail to see and  understand even less. 

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Rog Wilko 11 Oct 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> That's just the defeatist remoaner attitude we've come to expect. Here, I'll start and you join in:

> Blue passports

> Shiny new 50p coin

> Fewer brown people

> Paralysed government

You forgot to use the irony icon in your previous post, in which the irony was so opaque it had me fooled for a moment.

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Rog Wilko 11 Oct 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> Boris Day? Didn't he star in Calamity Johnson?

Love this. Real LOL moment. You made my day.

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Bob Kemp 11 Oct 2019
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> Boris Day? Didn't he star in Calamity Johnson?

And 'Young Man with a Horn'... I really don't want to go there!

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jkarran 11 Oct 2019
In reply to pec:

> You clearly struggle to understand basic human psychology despite your IQ.

Given IQ is measured mainly by logic, pattern recognition and geometric manipulation would that be so very surprising?

I doubt there's significant correlation between IQ and brexit voting.

jk

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fred99 11 Oct 2019
In reply to Al Randall:

> It's worth remembering that brexiteers have been labelled ignorant, bigoted, facist, racists for over 3 years both on UKC and in the wider media. Just to put a sense of perspective on this.  I am aware of a regular contributor to this forum who has recently stopped posting and has had to have all references of his profile removed because he received death threats, in his UKC associated email, to himself and his family from remainers who disagreed with his views. Offensive, inflammatory language is just that no matter who it comes from so lets not pretend for a minute that it's confined to one side of the debate. Come on why can't we be nice to each other especially on what is meant to be an informal, friendly forum about an activity that unites us.

> Al


Trump said that both sides were the same at Charlestown, and we all know he was lying.

My main point was " If I'm threatened I'll retaliate in a manner that will leave no question as to whether or not I'm an easy touch that can be intimidated."

At present the overwhelming threats of violence, and actual violence itself are coming (and have always come) from the far right Brexit Stormtroopers who most probably are BNP/NF and the like. They've had rallies in my town where they had virtually no local members, just to threaten people with skin, accents or views different to themselves.

Major violence is coming, and we will not remain safe if we all act like Quakers (however much I may admire the beliefs/guts of Quakers).

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Sir Chasm 11 Oct 2019
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> And 'Young Man with a Horn'... I really don't want to go there!

There are a lot to choose from, how about Pillow Talk? Or Love Me or Leave Me?

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Mike Stretford 11 Oct 2019
In reply to off-duty:

> I think highlighting his "leave" views and ignoring his white supremacist and far right views is a polarising comment, whether intentional or not and certainly doesn't contribute to lowering the heat of debate.

I didn't ignore his far right views, my point is there is overlap, so care should have been taken. At the time of the murder both leave campaigns had put xenophobic posters up across the country (80m Turks coming, and Farages line of refugees ).

> I think I've seen at first hand far more violence from antifa protestors than I have from right wing protestors.

I wonder why this led to a payout rather than any convictions?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/26/met-police-in-700k-payout-to-detained-anti-fascist-protesters

I'm not involved with any antifacist groups but I have been threatened by right wing thugs. Seems to be them causing trouble outside parliament too.

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off-duty 11 Oct 2019
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> I didn't ignore his far right views, my point is there is overlap, so care should have been taken. At the time of the murder both leave campaigns had put xenophobic posters up across the country (80m Turks coming, and Farages line of refugees ).

You literally didn't mention his far right views. 

> I wonder why this led to a payout rather than any convictions?

> I'm not involved with any antifacist groups but I have been threatened by right wing thugs. Seems to be them causing trouble outside parliament too.

I've been threatened and shouted at by right wing muppets. I've actually been attacked by Left wing elements.

On the balance of policing protests, the LW element routinely deployed more aggression and violence than the RW.  Whilst the RW would turn up and protest, it was the LW protests that would actively counter protest and hunt out the RW. 

In the event of LW protests you would rarely, if ever, see a RW counter protest.

The only change I've seen with Brexit, is that the RW have started counter protesting, and violence has escalated.

I wonder why they received the payout as well - given that it's an out of court settlement with no admission if liability I suspect it might hinge on the deployment of undercover officers and not wanting to disclose the intell case in a civil court case, but who knows - the article isn't exactly clear.  

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Mike Stretford 11 Oct 2019
In reply to off-duty:

> You literally didn't mention his far right views. 

"The point is there is an overlap between a minority of leavers and extreme right wingers capable of violence. "

Me, 17:46 Thurs, the post you replied to accusing me of ignoring his far right views. I might not have said it in the original post but I would have thought its fairly obvious that the nastiest, violent leavers also are also far-righters. And I don't see why you think it negates the point, particularly during a campaign that was characterised by open xenophobia. In terms of healing a divided nation I think it would be helpful if the majority of leavers who don't hold extreme views acknowledged that the campaign was pretty dirty by those running the leave campaigns.

I'm not an ardent remainer. I could see some positives if a deal achieved this month. What really annoys me is the xenophobia of the campaign is being swept under the carpet, with a refusal do accept that it probably did have consequences., and still does.

> I've been threatened and shouted at by right wing muppets. I've actually been attacked by Left wing elements.

I'm sorry to hear you've been attacked, I hope they got collared.

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pec 11 Oct 2019
In reply to jkarran:

> I doubt there's significant correlation between IQ and brexit voting.

It wasn't me who suggested there was and given Pyreneenemec's response to my post he has clearly failed to grasp the point I was making in response to him. So much for being able to see the 'bigger picture' as he puts it.

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