UKC

Garden hose non-return valve

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 LastBoyScout 18 Oct 2022

Hi,

Looking for recommendations for a non-return valve to go on a standard Hozelock garden hose, where I've got water butts connected together.

Google comes up with the inevitable myriad of options - which may or may not fit - and I'd like one as low profile (slim) as possible.

Thanks,

 colinakmc 18 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

There’s one in the Hozelock range, looks just like the normal hose-to-tap QR fitting but only allows flow one way. 

OP LastBoyScout 18 Oct 2022
In reply to colinakmc:

> There’s one in the Hozelock range, looks just like the normal hose-to-tap QR fitting but only allows flow one way. 

Yes, I saw that, but in this case it needs to be an in-line one - basically, I want to cut a bit of hose and re-join it with the valve. Should have been clearer in the OP.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

> Yes, I saw that, but in this case it needs to be an in-line one - basically, I want to cut a bit of hose and re-join it with the valve. Should have been clearer in the OP.

How does the hose connect between the butts? It might better to have the non return fitting screwed directly into the butt, rather than cutting the hose to fit the valve and introducing more potential leak points?

 jkarran 18 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> Google comes up with the inevitable myriad of options - which may or may not fit - and I'd like one as low profile (slim) as possible.

What do you actually need it to do?

I'd bet against a non-return valve working reliably for long, if at all in dirty water.

edit: https://www.screwfix.com/p/single-check-valve-15mm/38236 with a couple of stubs of 15mm copper in the ends for hose/clamps? I'd still bet against it working.

jk

Post edited at 15:23
1
OP LastBoyScout 18 Oct 2022
In reply to Ridge:

The butts (hidden behind a bit of screening) only seem to accept the taps they came with, so each have a short bit of hose connecting those taps via a "T" joint to a master tap.

At the moment, rain flows into 1 butt and the water levels are equalized via this loop - problem is that the top of the water in the slave butt won't ever get replaced unless you completely drain both butts.

Hence, I want to put a non-return valve on the slave butt and then connect them at the top. This means they won't always maintain equal levels, but should cycle the water in the slave - at least to some extent.

OP LastBoyScout 18 Oct 2022
In reply to jkarran:

Did consider the issues of dirty water, but the arrangement I've got means that it would be easy to isolate the non-return valve and give it a clean every now and then.

The one you've linked to would work, but it's a bit overkill.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

> At the moment, rain flows into 1 butt and the water levels are equalized via this loop - problem is that the top of the water in the slave butt won't ever get replaced unless you completely drain both butts.

> Hence, I want to put a non-return valve on the slave butt and then connect them at the top. This means they won't always maintain equal levels, but should cycle the water in the slave - at least to some extent.

Is the 'stale' water at the top of one butt an issue? I'd have thought that when it rains the water flowing from the 'master' into the bottom of the 'slave' would induce a bit of turbulence, and in warm weather you might get a bit of convection flow going on. It's not something I've really thought about.

OP LastBoyScout 18 Oct 2022
In reply to Ridge:

> Is the 'stale' water at the top of one butt an issue? I'd have thought that when it rains the water flowing from the 'master' into the bottom of the 'slave' would induce a bit of turbulence, and in warm weather you might get a bit of convection flow going on. It's not something I've really thought about.

It's entirely possible I'm overthinking this

Longer term, I've got the potential to add 1 or 2 more butts into the system, when it might become an issue if it starts to smell at the end.

Also, if one failed, it would stop all the water leaking out via the failed one.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

The hozelock one has 3/4 BSP at one end (expecting a tap) and standard Hozelock at the other (expecting hose).

What's to stop you fitting a 3/4 BSP like https://www.waterirrigation.co.uk/pack-of-5-hydrosure-bush-adaptor-3-4-bsp-male-to-1-bsp-female.html fitted to your water butt and then just using the hozelock flow check valve as colinakmc suggested with a bit of hozelock hose?

 Dax H 18 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

If you buy a NRV make sure it's one that will work at zero pressure. Most are sprung loaded and won't open with the head pressure created by a water butt.

Even a flap type might struggle to open

 Maggot 18 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Basically, you want a big reservoir consisting of multiple vessels.  Have an outlet in the base of each vessel in parallel to the tap and connect each vessel close to the base with largest diameter tubing you can work with/connect easily enough.

In reply to Dax H:

> If you buy a NRV make sure it's one that will work at zero pressure. Most are sprung loaded and won't open with the head pressure created by a water butt.

> Even a flap type might struggle to open

Thats a really good point. Maybe if he stacked the butts at different heights to maintain constant flow?


 Maggot 18 Oct 2022
In reply to Ridge:

You can model that in 3d CAD

 jkarran 18 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> It's entirely possible I'm overthinking this

Yep  

You need a stiring stick (or a new worry), not a valve! 

Jk

 wintertree 18 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

I use two different systems:

  • Aluminium 5/16” (8mm) non return valves intended for fuel lines.  These can be fit online to 1/2” garden hoses with some silicone sealant and jubilee clips.  Cheap, compact, simple, have lasted 5 years no problems 
  • Fitting 25 mm MDPE pipe compression fittings to water butt outputs (using the thread for their tap and some thread sealant as the threads on butts tend to be poorly suited to heavy fittings and piles), MDPE pipe and compression fittings and compression fitting non-return valves.  Not so cheap, not so compact, simple, have lasted 5 years.

You’ll find 5/16” non return valves on Amazon and fleabay.  

 Kevster 18 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Aquarium air pump on a timer, or just a small water pump?

You only want to aerate or move the water a bit every now and then. 

However...

I thought the stale bit tended to be the bottom. Mixing it all up may not be ideal- surely the stale bit being used first would help keep the turn over/ clarity?

If you're just watering plants is stale water a problem even?

 wintertree 18 Oct 2022
In reply to Kevster:

> I thought the stale bit tended to be the bottom. Mixing it all up may not be ideal- surely the stale bit being used first would help keep the turn over/ clarity?

That's where a device like a "Calmed Inlet" comes in

https://www.celticwater.co.uk/calmed-inlet/

 Maggot 18 Oct 2022
In reply to wintertree:

https://www.celticwater.co.uk/overflow-siphon-for-plastic-water-tanks/

😂😂😂😂

we are just talking rain water for the garden here? I admire these people who invent nonsense for most.

 wintertree 18 Oct 2022
In reply to Maggot:

> 😂😂😂😂

> we are just talking rain water for the garden here? I admire these people who invent nonsense for most

I think at that scale of tank most people are using it for more than just the garden.  My previous employer used it for toilets that never flushed (the rainwater > mains switchover valve failed.  Every time)

My rainwater tank flushes a toilet, feeds a pressure-washer, feeds a drip irrigation system and is the water supply for my zombie-day scenario.  It doesn't have a calmed inlet, but I can see the sense in it.  Last time I inspected the tank, it was mostly empty and there were a couple of dozen tide-marks up the side, some of pollen, some of unidentifiable gunk, formed as the level receded in a step-wise way with use during the drought.  

 wintertree 18 Oct 2022
In reply to Dax H:

> If you buy a NRV make sure it's one that will work at zero pressure

Good point.  My butt-jointing manifold is about half a meter below the butts, but that does need one to live on a hill...

 henwardian 19 Oct 2022
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Why not just get one but that is as big as you need? Linking a bunch of them together, dirty water, check valves... it's all just more and more potential points of failure in the system. I would go with kiss on this one.

Also, proper quality, reliable check valves are expensive, cheap ones are not reliable. I think you might be on a road to nowhere trying to find a cheap but good quality one.

Commercial waste for small and medium businesses is often removed in 1000 litre metal containers on wheels. You should be able to get hold of a trashed one of them for free (my next door neighbour has about 4 or 5 lying around outside his house converted into various things), it'll be the wheels that are broken but obv you would take those off anyway. If it leaks, you can always line it with a plastic sheet from any old DIY shop for about a tenner.

1
In reply to LastBoyScout:

This? https://www.growell.co.uk/growing-systems/irrigation-components/13mm-non-return-valve.html

I'm struggling to understand where you plan to put it that will change anything though. 

Edit: also probably don't worry about it. Just make sure there's little/no light getting in so you don't grow green sludge and accept that you might need to rinse the bits of roof detritus out every few years.

Post edited at 07:41
OP LastBoyScout 19 Oct 2022
In reply to henwardian:

> Why not just get one but that is as big as you need? Linking a bunch of them together, dirty water, check valves... it's all just more and more potential points of failure in the system. I would go with kiss on this one.

Size and location. I've got a bit of dead space between our house and next door, but it's only ~2' wide - I can get a line of slimline 100l butts there, but not much else.

I don't have anywhere else to put anything.


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...