UKC

This is fairly old so some might have seen it already but Donald Trump was asked by Harry Faulkner of Fox News,

"So I'm curious, from you, what do you think the protesters — not the rioters and the looters, we're intelligent enough to know the difference in our culture, right? — what do you think they [protesters] want?" Faulkner asked the president. "What do you think they need, right now, from you?"

This is the President's, verbatim, reply -

"Protesters for different reasons. You're protesting also because, you know, they just didn't know. I've watch — I watched very closely. Why are you here? They really weren't able to say, but they were there for a reason, perhaps.

"But a lot of them really were there because they're following the crowd. A lot of them were there because what we witnessed was a terrible thing. What we saw was a terrible thing. And we've seen it over the years. We haven't, you know, this was one horrible example, but you've seen other terrible examples. You know that better than anybody who would know it. And I know it. I've seen it, too. I've seen it before I was president. I've seen it. I think it's a shame. I think it's a disgrace. And it's got to stop.

"At the same time, you also know that we have incredible people in law enforcement that we have to cherish them and take care of them. And we can't let something like this, we have a bad apple go out and, you know, destroy the image of a whole of millions of people that take really good care of us. And then you have a movement where they say, let's not have a police department. And you say, where are these people coming from?"

Is English his first language? Indeed is language his first language? Was there no selection process when he put himself forward as a candidate?

Dave

Link - https://www.businessinsider.com/read-trump-response-why-george-floyd-protes...

He's an idiot, and a few people believe he's actually suffering from some form of dementia.

However we can't exactly look down on the Yanks given the state of our government. An American brewer in Idaho actually gave us a free round saying something along the lines that the world though they were total assholes for electing Trump, then we took the heat of them with Brexit. After Johnson I recon I could get free tacos to go with the beer next time!

You only have to watch clips of him from the 80s and 90s to see the massive decline in his verbal ability today. I'm not an expert (however this *is* the internet) but I'd say Trump's definitely showing signs of dementia

He got to be president by hiring a capable team and being willing to do what others weren't.

He's a sociopathic dimwit in decline and surrounded by sycophants. Dangerous! 

Jk

He winds up SJWs and PC-types, he's entertaining and he's not a career politician at least.

This^

and people thinking their vote didn't count for anything.

I imagine the next election will have a larger turn out than the last. Covid, willing.

His niece, in her recent book, said words to the effect that she wouldn't be surprised if he had some sort of learning disability. (She is a clinical psychologist). 

How did he become president? Easy, because enough people hate, and I mean hate, Hilary.

For all his fails I’m predicting he’ll win a second term. Not because he’s any good, but because he says the things the ‘freedom’ voters want to hear. And secondly because he’s up against Biden, who’s 77. I know Trump isn’t much younger, but 77. There’s no guarantee he’ll wake up tomorrow, let alone survive 8 years.

I was just reading a review of Mary Trump’s book, and it quotes her as saying:

”The fact is, Donald’s pathologies are so complex and his behaviors so often inexplicable that coming up with an accurate and comprehensive diagnosis would require a full battery of psychological and neuropsychological tests that he’ll never sit for,”

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-08/mary-trump-s-guided-t...

Yep, we'll just have to keep speculating on what is wrong with him! That should keep us all busy😄

Listen to some British MP's and they also talk gobbledygook in the form of corporite speech or politico language. It's all just as unintelligible to me but wrapped up in a posh accent.

And then Trump takes it to a higher level with his thought bubbles popping up into his voice box.

So is Jordan Peterson and he says he's a genius! 

“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”

Donald Trump

The technical term is "Word salad"

'Draining the swamp' strikes me as a similar way of tapping into general discontent to the Conservatives talking about 'Broken Britain' and positioning themselves as the party who recognised that things were amiss, and in doing so could sort things out,  they're both vague enough to apply to whatever lots of different people are thinking.

Trump spent ages talking about draining the swamp, and bringing jobs back to America, and 'America first' being his policy.

I dont think that's what he says of trump at all!

He said he's not an idiot. He might have gone as far to say he's intelligent. He's not, as far as I'm aware, said he's a genius. 

I don't think there's a qualitative difference between Trump and Johnson. Both countries made fools of themselves. There's light at the end of the tunnel here in the UK; I'm less convinced about the US.

Ok then, I will give you that..."his IQ [Trump] is clearly above average" so not a genius, but definitely intelligent, more so than most of us lot - according to Peterson. Listening to Trump its hard see IMO.

Trump: thick sociopath, driven by a need for respect,

Johnson: Intelligent sociopath, driven by base human wants.

...it's obviously more complicated than that, but they're both massive tw*ts.

Salad is too polite a term for such a mess. A Donald Trump 'salad' would be huge and utterly revolting concoction of old and rotting beans, plus a lot of ingredients we've never seen or even heard of before. Probably completely inedible, except by people who like swallowing shit.

He won because the alternative was unpalatable and slightly dull.

He will win again for the same reason.

He’s declined a lot though. I think he’s a shadow of what he was 4 years ago. Almost all his answers are now just nonsensical.

It will be interesting to see how he does in head to head televised debates. If pushed by an interviewer or Biden who he can't cut off as he does with reporters who push him at press conferences.

Agreed .

So eloquently put too .

Best I've seen is: Johnson is Trump with a thesaurus.

The UK elected Johnson and is about to make Chris Grayling chair of the intelligence committee.

Glass houses.

And even his Latin quotes are largely only roughly correct. Even I can spot that, and my last Latin classes were in 1987.

The true reason for the success of Trump and Johnson is probably the same in both countries: A sufficient supply of deplorables that are stupid enough to buy the lies of either candidate and are amoral enough to consider voting for a self admitted sex offender or someone who got sacked for lying from every singe previous job, facebook and Russian interference  successfully undermining the time honoured democratic mechanisms, and, unfortunately, a competing party that gives the impression of deliberately losing.

CB

Ah the old brexit gambit- everyone that didn't vote my way is a idiot depolarsble.... How did that work out as a way of getting people on side? 

Trump will win again because the american left are making the same mistake and haven't learnt anything over the last 4 years. Also, Biden is old, creepy and just as senile but he has zero charisma. 

But it is true. Successful or not, there are some things you do not do and some people you do not associate with if you possess an ounce of decency.

CB

Forgot in my last reply, I agree with you that Biden, due to his blandness and age, looks like a bad choice, same as I considered picking HC as candidate in 16 as a deliberate effort at losing: After Obama US voters would certainly not again countenance a minority or female candidate (I know that women are not a minority, but I guess you get the gist).

However, some of my American friends disagree, they think that the only essential bit this time round is that the Democrats nominate a white American male, actual policy points may even be detrimental. If this were correct, Biden would be perfect. Guess we will see come November.

CB

By the end of the year, pending the result of the US election and the Brexit deal negotiations, this could easily be reversed

I’m not supporting Trump in any way but other family members, including a judge, have criticised the book and apparently she carries a massive sense of injustice from the Trump family in what she perceives as a paltry family inheritance

There’s light at the end of the tunnel in the US.... Kanye West is standing for president 

'Johnson: Intelligent sociopath, driven by base human wants.'

I'm not so sure about the intelligence bit. He has a facility with words, for sure, but they're often disconnected from logic and reason.

That's a nice summary of why he won and will win again. If the parties in opposition concentrated half as much effort on addressing the serious issues faced by ordinary people as they do on political correctness, digging up dirt on the opposition and virtue signalling they would be in with a chance.

I'm praying that with the current changes in the Labour party we stand some chance of getting back to some form of effective politics.  Unfortunately I think America is too far gone.

You don't change peoples minds by constantly telling them that they are a moron because they support a moron.

Al

I've watched a few of his press conferences - random is the best you can say.  Rumour has it he wants to stand again in 2024 if he fails this time round but I doubt he'll be very coherent by then

You've never met an intelligent fool?

Perhaps more true

I think Bojo and Trump are very different, - Bojo is lazy , Trump is a dangerous fool.  Trumps looking back to the 50's, Bojo's looking forward to something but his need for popularity and harsh reality will destroy him

Can you give some examples of the parties in opposition spending all their effort on political correctness.

As for digging up dirt on the opposition. Thats more a speciality of the parties currently in government. Demanding an investigation into his opponents son in return for government funds ring any bells?

As for virtue signalling. Teargassing people so can stand awkwardly with a bible? Both parties in governent are rather fond of it for their base.

Got to wonder about these snowflakes. Its a bit PC isnt it not being able to point out someone is being an idiot?

I am reasonably confident that Trump will lose in November, polls in key swing state are clearly stabilizing in that direction, and neither the CV19 mess nor the resulting, rising unemployment will magically resolve by then.

I very much doubt he has enough dirty tricks up his sleeve, more likely the democrats have ammo hidden for the last weeks of campaigning.

Now imagine Trump having acted like Merkel or other leaders who raised a concerted response to CV19. Imagine him smothering Democrat governors in NY and elsewhere with federal support and money in March and April... That would have knocked the wind out of any campaign right away!

CB

No.  I'm just expressing the sense I get. I'm not developing a thesis for my Doctorate or writing a book. And I'm not really pushing an agenda, I'm simply voicing an opinion. There is an abundance of anecdotal evidence out there.  Constant emphasis, usually pushed by opposition parties of systemic, institutionalised racism, gender issues, cancel culture etc. etc.  I don't take notes every time I experience this but I do take it in and they help develop my opinions. If you are keen to change my opinion please feel free to present your evidence that these issues are not constantly in the media and being pushed predominantly by "the left"

With regard to digging up the dirt.  I don't disagree but the Democrats in America have taken this to levels that are compromising anything else they would like to achieve.

Al

You were talking about the opposition parties not the "left".  So where is your evidence supporting this claim? As for the reference to the media can you not see a problem there? Might the problem not be with your choice of media and what they decide to focus on.

Again some examples would be useful. What dirt digging are they doing and how does it come close to what the republicans are doing?

That does raise uncomfortable issues with the ethics of mocking him

Not for another 4 whole years and the damage they'll do in that time will take a generation or more to repair if it's even possible. Assuming Scots nationalists are still denying Labour Scottish seats in 2024 there's a very real chance despite his manifest failure we get a whole decade of Johnson's ineptitude and his sponsors' looting. Still, 4 years is a long time at any time, right now with the 2021 brexit car crash ready to pile into our covid wreckage it's an eternity!

jk

And yet you just agreed with someone who did just that.

These people (Trump et al) are clearly horrible but the people that vote for them generally have actual reasons to do so, beyond being stupid. you have to do more than simply refrain from calling them idiots- you have to understand why they did it, and not just stand aghast that they did.

edit- just read again and perhaps this was the point you were making rather than agreeing with the post?

Just try to work out what is right about him, it won't take long! 

I thought the opposition parties currently were the left?

With regard to "choice of media". I accept that I may be sub consciously feeding my bias but I can assure you that when I read/hear an assertion I go out of my way to seek out an opposing view i.e my opinions are formed after hearing both sides of the story. Apart from anything else UKC is awash with such stuff.

The dirt I'm talking about are the attempts by the Democrats to unseat Trump.  The Russian  collusion for example. They should be trying to oust him on policy matters.

Al

Whilst he is president I think he is fair game.

Do you think the president colluding with a foreign power to try to influence the election is something that the opposition should ignore?

Not for a second but I am saying that it seems to be proving to be counter-productive. You know pot, kettle, preaching to the converted etc. etc.

Al

Pot, kettle? Are you implying that Biden is colluding with foreign powers to influence the election?

And you say it's counter productive but negative campaigning has a massive impact - look at the effect all that 'crooked Hillary' stuff had back in 2016. Trump benefited massively from the 'anyone but her' vote and Biden is looking to do the same this year as so far anti-Trump sentiment seems to be the key factor in this election. Biden hasn't actually had to do anything so far - he's just sitting back and watching Trump tank his own ratings every time he opens his mouth. There's a long way to go before the election and anything might happen but at the moment Biden is polling way way ahead of Trump

It might also be a reflection of the media you see too - I've seen plenty of stuff criticising the Covid health response, the economic response, the caging kids at the border, the tax cuts for corporations and the rich at the expense of the deficit, the inane tweets and the generally embarrassing behaviour that Trump displays etc. Not only is he manifestly unfit to hold publiv office he's also done absolutely nothing for his working class voters apart from feed them racism and bile, in fact he's made them worse off through his corporate tax breaks and trade wars and his cuts to public spending.

In the US that would be pushing the term somewhat. Can you not see the difference though between the "left" which apparently is pushing all these PC and virtue signalling options and the parties themselves? Hence why I am asking for specific examples where you think the parties did something as opposed to someone vaguely left wing.

What do you mean by oust?

As part of the presidental elections they are arguing based on policy matters.

The impeachment process wasnt policy based because it cant be. Its about removing someone unfit for office normally due to criminal or other activity. Given his long list of extremely dubious actions I dont think it is unreasonable for them to go the impeachment route.

I think you and others are steering the conversation a little off topic.  I'm posting suggestions as to why Trump may have won. That is not supporting him or his party. Can you not see that distinction?

Only in the US could the Democrats be described as left wing.  Even Bernie Sanders would be pretty middle of the road here, and our politics is as right wing as it’s been in 30 years.

Oh shit. So that light really is an oncoming express train...?

You mean the lies spread by the newspapers, right...?

Not as uncomfortable as the issue of a mental incompetent as president.

OK but in the context of USA politics I think it's fair to say he is "to the left".  I'm not sure what this has to do with the OP though nor the essence of my comments.

Al

I didn't say you supported him. I'm just curious about the way you so casually dismiss several serious and well supported accusations of corruption and treason as "digging up dirt on the opposition" and why you think it's counterproductive when the 'crooked Hillary' attack played a substantial role in Trump winning four years ago. And I'm curious as to why this alleged 'virtue signalling' from the opposition is so awful but Trump's race baiting and culture wars (which are pretty much just virtue signalling to his base's values) doesn't raise a comment. It just seems a bit hypocritical tbh.

He’s under water in polling in key states.

nobody has been this far down and against an opponent polling above 50%.

covid and the police protests have killed him. He’s increasingly unstable.

hes doubling down and his base is fraying. 

Absolute rubbish.

biden is well liked.. 

He may well bring back the red state democrats and the traditional working class voters.

also People are fed up of crazy. We’ve 130,000 dead, massive unemployment and are a disgrace on the world stage. Boring old biden is very appealing to many.

Which reasons - preferrably rational ones so that someone with a brain could respect them - would these be?

It would take a heart of stone not to laugh at the deplorables who did their best in 2016, actively voting to sabotage the very same health insurance programs  they would now desperately need after losing their jobs due the failed CV19 response of their hero.

F*ck them, I hope they have a nice pandemic.

Fortunately it seems that the double whammy of unemployment and the pandemic opened the eyes of enough of the 2016 Trump voters, who now realize they have been conned and used, to turn a few key states.

CB

Is it the view in the states that he wont win?

Everything I've read/ listened to has suggested that Trump cant lose- and most of that is written by left leaning outlets.

The same people wont vote for him as before, but the democrats have failed to sway the 'sensible' republicans.  Everyone acknowledges hes an idiot, but hes doing things that they support. If you cant even persuade die hard religious folk to disavow him for being immoral, then what hope to you have of getting moderates over.

edit- for you reply to me.

Again, that's not what i'm hearing/ reading so its interesting to hear your perspective.  Would you say that your view holds for the whole US or just your corner (I believe you're new England correct?). That's a distinctly democratic area anyway.

You're not listening. At all.

Attitudes like yours only entrench peoples views. They don't challenge them in a good way.

It's not hypocritical on my part, and I did not intend to be dismissive. The points you make are valid but not in the context of "How did he become President. You could say how did he become President when ..........  but that was not the context of the OP. I put myself into the position of one of his supporters to try and describe why he may have.

Al

I lived in NH, a swing state, and spend a lot of time in Maine - which splits its votes. Both go either way.

the refusing of masks by his supporters has infuriated people. I’m in a state which has largely controlled Covid with no lockdown. Now it’s the traditional red states which are having thousands of cases.

in Michigan he hung them out to dry. That’s a swing state. His hard base won’t leave him, the suburban house wives in philly who won him Pennsylvania are.

he only has to lose a few swing states and it’s game over.

his trade wars killed farmers in the mid west. 
 

it’s those that will lose him the swing states. The deplorables will stick with him.

biden just got in trouble for saying 10-15% of the US just aren’t very nice people. He’s spot on. That’s why we like him. Trump supporters shouting “black lives don’t matter”. This isn’t about differences in politics anymore.

I hope you are right. Trump being in the White House is not good for either America or the world but, in the context of the OP, was putting HC up as the Democratic candidate the best thing to do? And in that context what's behind the rumours about Biden, his son and the oil industry in the Ukraine? Is this another scandal, waiting in the wings, that could scupper the Democrats once again? 

Al

Thanks for that, very interesting.

I'm not trying to question the validity of your opinion, but I think this self sureness could be misplaced. From what I can see, all 6 NE states have voted democrat since at least Clinton- you view could just be skewed by where you are.

The international commentators aren't so sure.

I make a point of not listening to idiots.

CB

FiveThirtyEight fortunately disagree, and they have form for good election forecasting:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bidens-polling-lead-is-big-and-steady/

The post begins with the words

May I ask which international commentators? 

(And please don't cite Russia Today)

I'm going to assume you don't mean me.

Its well accepted that calling people stupid does not change opinions. Its well accepted that this is a major problem of the 'woke' left and has contributed significantly to the rise in populism and has resulted in things such as Brexit, the Trump presidency and various other populist wins across the globe.

You may be right. they might be idiots. but you will be left smug, revelling in your 'right'ness when your side loses another vote.

If you can't empathise even a little with those who voted the other way, how do you intend to represent their views and take their vote in the next vote?

so angry, so righteous, so silly.

Seems odd that you would resort to suggesting I have been duped by Russian state media. Is your media intake really so bias that you cannot even comprehend something other than a Biden landslide. i would suggest most of the media, other than the Guardian and CNN, are betting on a Trump Victory.

Plenty of podcasts on the subject too, if you care to look for them.

That'll be the judge who stepped down from her lifetime appointment to avoid an ethics investigation into a Trump-family tax fraud she and Donald benefited from, I take it?

Excuse me - I should have said 'alleged' tax fraud.

jcm

Yes, I read that thanks.  have you read the other polls that put the lead to a point or two, or even zero?

And how did Hillary go with her lead in the polls?

Just to point out- I don't want Trump to win. But I can see history repeating itself as the self-righteous left come out full of confidence and superiority, espousing their virtue over the idiots who dare to think differently (I am most definitely a paid up member of 'the left').

I wouldn't vote for Trump, but I can totally see why people wouldn't want to vote for Biden either. Just because you're sure that Trump must lose, doesn't mean American's will vote to make Biden win.

And 538 was actually as accurate as anyone was last time. They said Trump could win, most likely Clinton would, but very possible that she would win the popular vote and lose the EC. Compared the odds to an NFL kicker missing a field goal from 30+ yards or something.

NH is a swing state. When you get that far north in the forests it gets very libertarian. “F*ck you all, as long as I’m ok, keep out Johnny Foreigner.” They tend to vote red. The state has tended just to stay blue but it’s very in contention.

I worked in a school which held a day of prayer for Trump to win. Kids would chant build that wall. A student called Matt, was called ‘black Matt’, 

That’s the one. Seems like the whole family have issues

Do you have any evidence for this? I mean, I'm not disputing that calling someone stupid is a poor way to try to win their vote and that it may have some effect but I'd be interested in how its impact has been quantified.

I think this is underestimated. Our adversarial political system means we underestimate the value of allowing people to save face when they change their minds. Obviously there are a chunk of voters you might as well write off, e.g. Trump's hardcore MAGA base, but there are also a chunk of more moderate voters who can be won round. And you probably don't win them round by banging on about what a terrible mistake they made last time because that just makes people defensive - 'I told you so' is not a compelling political message!

From your responses I'm assuming your are American so:

When did this reversal in attitudes to race and colour take place in America? When did Democrats become the supporters of equality? As far as my limited knowledge goes the Democrats were pro slavery, pro segregation, pro KKK from the early 1800's and pro Jim Crow post Reconstruction and well into the 1960's. Was the transition fast or slow? From my hazy recollection all the race riots were directed against Democrats not Republicans.  These days the generally accepted wisdom is that Republicans are racist but Democrats are not. In these days of political correctness why are the calls to apologise, for slavery for example, directed towards ALL whites and not the Democratic party specifically? These are genuine, serious questions.  Whilst I have some knowledge of the Civil War and Reconstruction my knowledge of later events is woefully inadequate.  Could you perhaps suggest some reading?

The "New Deal" of the thirties goes someway to explaining some switches in policy but I'm not sure it explains the change in attitude towards race.

Al

Ok, that wasn't clear. In which case I'll rephrase it to Trump voters are hypocrites if they criticise the Democrats for digging dirt and virtue signalling whilst ignoring their own president doing exactly the same thing, as well as being massively corrupt.

You might like to add the Financial Times to your list:

https://ig.ft.com/us-election-2020/

There's quite a nice summary of a range of polls given here:

https://www.270towin.com/2020-election-forecast-predictions/

So after getting all high and mighty about not insulting you go straight in for the insults.

I don't disagree.

I agree, polls put Biden firmly in front- for now. But when have polls ever been reliable, especially several months out.

Who do you think will do better during the upcoming online focused campaign?

The last election came down to a couple of tens of thousand votes in a handful of counties in few states. Trump has history of playing the electoral college game, and winning- despite what polls said.

I'm not sure either way- you seem to be certain.  Why don't you bet your life savings on it?

Not one insult in there .  Their posts were angry in tone and he thought himself right and others wrong- can you agree that that is by definition 'righteous'?.  I then gave reasons behind why i thought that the way they were approaching this was silly (as in, not going to get the outcome they were after).

you must be made of real delicate stuff if you thought that was insulting. or perhaps you just find people disagreeing with you insulting?

but please- continue to ignore the point.

Ooh, I listened to a podcast about this recently. The big shift came about in the '60s. The Democrats shifted towards a more integrationist, pro-civil rights position whilst the Republicans went the other way. This then led to the development of the southern strategy, in which the GOP made the political calculation that appealing to white voters through quite a lot of dogwhistle racist policies would lead to greater electoral success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Yeah this is back firing rapidly now. It worked but it’s no longer gaining traction.

Can I ask why you said that? I haven't indicated anywhere that I might be certain. 

Thanks for that. I have to admit that when I had studied these matters for my History degree I did not look at them in this context. I was around at the time, 1960's, but was too young to appreciate what was going on.  Remind me GOP?  Grand Old Party?

Al

Ah bless more insults. Keep going. I am enjoying this demonstration of hypocrisy.

What point. Its the normal handwaving politically correct shit that if someone makes a f*cking stupid decision you shouldnt be allowed to point out it is f*cking stupid.

Oh, sorry, of course not, just reread my post and see how it would sound this way!

I agree that my approach will convince anyone. I disagree, though, about the conclusions. IMO the deplorables and their continental cousins, Pegda, AfD and other rightwing scum partcularly in East Germany, have been pampered and indulged for far too long. If anything, votes were lost by not countering the ongoing rightwing arseholery forcefully enough. We should stop being so wishy washy. Again, I believe that the BLM movement gives additional momentum to defeat Trump.

CB

edit: To clarify again, you suggest to empathize with Trump voters. I will certainly not empathize with some fuckwit who votes for a self admitted sex offender just because he promises to satisfy their base, racist instincts.

Such people are the enemy, and the more they suffer from the economic and health consequences of the mishandling of the epidemy by their beloved leader the better.

Maybe personal misfortune will teach them something they refused to learn from political arguments.

Yeah, Grand Old Party. It's a bit of a ridiculous name but it's much quicker to type.

I did an American Politics module during my undergrad degree but I had no idea about all of this. I learnt a lot about the electoral college and the political and constitutional structures but none of the interesting stuff. Listening to this podcast the other day was the first time I realised that the GOP had deliberately pursued the politics of racism, rather than it being a side-effect of their social and economic values. They did try to shift away from it during the Bush years - as Roadrunner says above, it has become less effective over time as there genuinely aren't as many racists out there. Trump has unashamedly and overtly courted the racist vote but doing so has alienated some of the moderates, at least his predecessors were subtle enough that people could pretend they weren't racist.

I’m British but a US legal resident. I’ve lived here since 2014, worked here since 2009.

it was a calculated gamble. The democrats and republicans switched back in the 60s the switch happened. That was when the southern Democrat’s became republicans. The democrats decided to support the civil rights movement.

Im only just learning a lot of the early history. I’m currently reading stamped (a remix) and it goes through the history of racism in the US. I’m currently at the 3/5th compromise where they decided an African American was 3/5ths of a white man.

I wonder if it might end with the proposition that many black Americans object to being called "African Americans"

It's ironic, considering my interest in History, that my ignorance in some areas persisted despite my living through it.

I totally understand your viewpoint and really wish/ hope it would work.  I'm just not so sure.

I think my main point is that a lot of his support comes from people that abhor him personally, but his policy aligns with theirs- pro-life, pro-gun, small government etc and they don't care who does it.  Its understandable up to a point- but I agree with you that my lines would have been crossed way before now.

As I said, hopefully you're right and the more aggressive stance towards this shit will win out, I just hope 'you' wont regret writing off the deplorable.

and here- you have encapsulated perfectly why the left has lost for the last 5 years.

apologies- reply to too many people and forgetting to check the names.

Trump and Johnson are creatures of their time, and have been propelled to success by celebrity politics.

Historically (for example, last century), politics was about class identity and manifesto. Parties set out policies intended to appeal to broad groups of voters, and victory went to those who most appealed to the population, and who represented not necessarily who they were, but who they wanted to be.

That still happens today if there's an overriding issue - for example Brexit. However in the absence of that, politics is no longer about issues of government; it's about celebrity, a complex set of strategies which mostly boil down to control of the media, and promotion of the "hero leader".

Trump and the GOP team clearly do intensive research on the issues that will truly engage voters and create publicity; the President is astoundingly good at that - when did you last read a tweet by Biden?

Most importantly though, Trump has had David Pecker in his pocket. Pecker is the American version of Rupert Murdoch; He controls the tabloids that land on the kitchen table of America, and those have for decades had glorious colour pictures of the Trump lifestyle, the women, the power, and so on. They know him and love him; who is that Biden fellow anyway?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/aug/06/david-pecker-donald-trump-nat...

Many posters have wondered how on earth the USA can countenance having a crazy man for president - me too in fact. I think the above may go some way to explaining it.
 

https://www.facebook.com/100011715693992/posts/1132798760453970/?
 

if you can watch this. It’s fox attacking him. Lots of moderate republicans are getting sick of his bullying.

You think Brexit was the result of the "woke" left?? FFS!

Really? Which exactly? After the most recent polls I thought even Fox had accepted he is behind. I listened to a really interesting interview with Steve Cortes, the spokesperson for the America First PAC and obviously a close ally and admirer of Trump. He even admitted that the polls were both important and currently not great for Trump. Of course he "can" still win, plenty of time for an October Surprise, but currently it's not looking great.

There’s a 538 article (maybe linked above) that nobody has ever trailed by so much against an opponent polling above 50% and won (or for decades anyway).

polling wise we now know his voters so it will be more accurate.

the good thing about Biden is he’s pretty much old territory. His life has been thoroughly investigated numerous times so it’ll make it harder to spring an October surprise, but that depends on his VP pick too.

so far the hunter Ukraine the prosecutor story is going nowhere..

what will be interesting is how long the GOP stick with him and risk losing the senate if things keep looking bad. 

Read what I wrote properly and try again. I really don't want to have another 'discussion' with you were you don't take anything on board. It's not interesting. 

Accepting the what the polling states now and determining a winner in 5 months time are two different things. I think just about every single outlet you could think of has at least one 'don't count him out yet' or 'can trump still win in november' article. Some are more feverent in their in their belief in the slaying of the beast than others. 

Biden has his own fight--its for him to lose and he's made a couple of good stabs at it thus far... "if youre thinking of voting for him, you ain't black" springs to mind. 

The latest polls are 76=8% approval from Republican voters. That was 90% a month ago.

67% disapprove of his handling of the pandemic.

That's ABC/IPSOS poll.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/broad-disapproval-trumps-handling-coronavir...

He's general support has dropped from 42-46%, down to nearer 30-35%. That should be worrying him. He's certainly not widening his base but seems to be losing core support.

Biden has some gaffs, the black comment was daft, but instead of capitalizing on that Trump went about defending flying the confederate flag and attacking Bubba Wallace. 

His anger at the BLM protestors whilst defending the white protestors back in April was well documented. He can't just get that support back because of a stupid remark by Biden. 

Totally agree. But as I keep saying. There's a long way to go and trump has history of campaigning effectively online whereas Biden looks like he doesn't know where the intents are stored so doesn't trust them.

I hope I'm wrong. 

As an aside--are American genuinely looking forwards to 4/8 years of Biden? He'd be in a care home for the latter part of that. 

He's a very stable genius with loads of dosh obviously.

He’ll likely serve 1 term, I think it’s why his VP pick will be important. 

thing is right now people would be quite happy with a president who sits in a care home and let the experts run the shoe.