/ How was this damage done to tire sidewall?

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martianb 12 Sep 2019

https://www.flickr.com/photos/martianb/48721643537/in/dateposted-public/

Afternoon UKCers,

I put my Ford Tourneo custom in for a service at a national garage company yesterday. 

I got it back yesterday afternoon. About 2hours later and walking back to my van in the car park. I had a perfect side on view of it and notice damage to the rear offside tire's sidewall. On checking the rest of them they all have the same damage/mark to the sidewall.

I phoned the garage and the manager has said that if they've been damaged they'll replace them but he's off today and isn't back until tomorrow.

Before I see the manager tomorrow I was wondering if any UKCer can shed light on how the damage could have occurred.

Thanks in advance. 

Marty

balmybaldwin 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

Not sure what could have caused that, but I would 100% say they are unsafe to drive on (There is no way they would pass an MOT)

What were you having done?  Just a normal service?  If so I guess the wheels would have come off to inspect brakes etc.... looks like they may have been put somewhere unsafe - perhaps crushed by a ram with a sharp implement gouging the tyre.

Other option would be some scally has stabbed your tyres with something in the 2 hours before you noticed.

martianb 12 Sep 2019
In reply to balmybaldwin:

It was just in for an interim 18000mile service. 

They're defo unsafe. 2 of them are worse than the picture posted. I've checked the internal sidewall as best I can and there's no corresponding damage.

I doubt it was a scally. The van was in my driveway for 45 minutes then driven to Decathlon where it was left for 30minutes. 

dread-i 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

Zooming in, the nature of the stain looks like a fluid was spilled on it. Is there a big chunk missing and similar stains on all of them ?

martianb 12 Sep 2019
In reply to dread-i:

Yep, exact same stain/marking and missing chunks of rubber on all 4 tires.

NottsRich 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

The chunks taken out look like a sort of 'blunt trauma' rather than a knife etc. The 'cracks' look like the sidewalls have been deformed a lot. The near-cirular marks look like burns, but maybe they're fretting marks from something rubbing up tight against them? If all four are damaged the same then I can't see how something like a pothole would have caused it. If they're the same then I can't even see how a malicous person on the street could have done it. Points towards something like a garage ramp/lift, although I've not seen one that interacts with wheels/tyres like that.

Post edited at 14:22
martianb 12 Sep 2019
In reply to NottsRich:

The tires were definitely not damaged when the van went in for the service. From a WhatsApp group chat someone reckons that it's been clamped while on a ramp for some reason. The marks may be caused by heat/friction and the rubber damaged by some form of torsional rotation.

I'd just like to know what they've clamped it with and why?

Thanks for all your replies so far

TobyA 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

I was going to say burnt? But if all four are damaged in the same way - some sort of clamp issue seems far more likely. Weird.

Timmd 12 Sep 2019
In reply to TobyA:

> I was going to say burnt? But if all four are damaged in the same way - some sort of clamp issue seems far more likely. Weird.

To me, it raises the question of whether they've damaged anybody else's tyres too, if there's some routine malpractice which happens at that garage. 

jkarran 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

Quite likely they've been walloped with a dirty big hammer to free them from the hub centre once the bolts were removed. I'd be surprised if that had torn them, if only one is torn the tear may be coincidental historic curbing damage.

jk

Post edited at 15:41
r0b 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

Clamped then attempted to be driven away whilst still clamped maybe? 

timjones 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

> Afternoon UKCers,

> I put my Ford Tourneo custom in for a service at a national garage company yesterday. 

> I got it back yesterday afternoon. About 2hours later and walking back to my van in the car park. I had a perfect side on view of it and notice damage to the rear offside tire's sidewall. On checking the rest of them they all have the same damage/mark to the sidewall.

> I phoned the garage and the manager has said that if they've been damaged they'll replace them but he's off today and isn't back until tomorrow.

> Before I see the manager tomorrow I was wondering if any UKCer can shed light on how the damage could have occurred.

> Thanks in advance. 

> Marty

It's hard to work out how that damage could have been done to all 4 tyres, it's is likely to take quite some force to inflict that sort of damage.  It might be worth checking on the age of the tyres.

gethin_allen 12 Sep 2019
In reply to jkarran:

> "Quite likely they've been walloped with a dirty big hammer to free them from the hub centre once the bolts were removed...."

This sounds plausible. Whether or not this would tear the tyre depends on the hammer. A really battered hammer that has been used to knock ten shades out of a metal object and is covered in burrs could do such damage I guess.

Eric9Points 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

So long as the reinforcement in the tyre isn't damaged they'd probably pass an MOT. That said if you had taken your car into the garage with the tyres on that state they'd have been adamant they'd need to be changed.

I'd insist on replacements.

martianb 12 Sep 2019
In reply to timjones:

It's a '67 plate van 18000 miles on it. Probably the original tires but plenty of tread on them as well easily 5mm+

No damage to the tires when it was left at the garage either.

I can see how a sledge hammer could cause the rubber gouging but would that cause the marking on the sidewall? 

krikoman 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

Looks burnt to me too.

Is it only on one side and in one spot? and are the other tyres all the same?

martianb 12 Sep 2019
In reply to krikoman:

> Looks burnt to me too.

> Is it only on one side and in one spot? and are the other tyres all the same?

As far as I can see the damage is to the external sidewall only and nothing to the internal one... But it is difficult for me to get underneath the van to check for sure.

All the other tires have exact same mark and rubber damage (some rubber damage is worse than others, but the mark is consistent in shape/size and severity)

Timmd 12 Sep 2019
In reply to gethin_allen:

> This sounds plausible. Whether or not this would tear the tyre depends on the hammer. A really battered hammer that has been used to knock ten shades out of a metal object and is covered in burrs could do such damage I guess.

Whatever damaged his tyres in the end, it's a bit perturbing, that there's garages which could be doing things like that, something amiss needed to happen for them all to be damaged. The OP could benefit from asking for recommendations of a better garage in his area. 

Post edited at 20:31
1
gethin_allen 12 Sep 2019
In reply to Timmd:

> Whatever damaged his tyres in the end, it's a bit perturbing, that there's garages which could be doing things like that, something amiss needed to happen for them all to be damaged. The OP could benefit from asking for recommendations of a better garage in his area. 


Totally agree, what would be their response if one of these damaged tyres were to fail at high speed and cause an accident?

Dax H 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

I'm thinking maybe they used a post lift that was too small for the vehicle. There is a type that has 2 vertical bars on each side and the horizontal bars that go under the car swing out from them to position under the jacking points. If the verticals were too close and touching the tyres that could have been done during the lifting.

Edit to add,  that is a bollox theory because the vertical posts would be in the center of the car not by the wheels. 

I would not go back there again though, either they knew and hoped you didn't notice or they didn't notice. They either can't be trusted or are blind and incompetent. Not people you want working on your transport. 

Post edited at 21:54
FactorXXX 12 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

How about if they're utter cowboys and moved your vehicle with a poorly maintained/incorrectly set up 'Street Lifter' - The type of thing the Council use to put cars onto a flat bed by picking the car up by clamping straps onto the wheels.
Might explain why it's similar markings on all four tyres. 

PATTISON Bill 12 Sep 2019
In reply to Dax H:

Tend to agree with the post lift theory.it would seem they have been lowered on to some part of the lift that is used for other functions,the weight of the vehicle would cause that type of damage to occur.

Timmd 12 Sep 2019
In reply to Dax H:

> I would not go back there again though, either they knew and hoped you didn't notice or they didn't notice. They either can't be trusted or are blind and incompetent. Not people you want working on your transport. 

Exactly. No finesse or competency in what they do. 

Post edited at 00:14
aln 13 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

Alien abduction. Pure and simple Martian boy. Don't come here with your hiding in plain sight forum name and pretend otherwise. 

the abmmc 13 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

On a similar vein with poor garage service, years ago, I ordered a windscreen replacement for my car and the insurer's favourite windscreen company came to my office to fix it.  Two hours later the guy came in to tell me it was done and I immediately saw that there were chisel like knicks in the metal work all around the wonderful new windscreen, spaced at regular 1cm intervals.  He denied he'd caused this damage and I had no proof that he had.  His manager took the same line as he had.  Painful expensive lesson followed at the separate bodyshop visit.  I hope that your garage plays better with you, sounds like they will.  For the last 20 years, after this experience, before any garage work is done on my car,  I walk around my car with the mechanic and ask them to sign for existing damage so that I have proof of them causing their own new damage to my vehicle.  To go back to your question, I have no idea what caused the damage to your tyres, but I expect any decent mechanic will know what did, I hope you get treated fairly.

Edit: Pretty sh*t of them not to tell you of the damage caused.   Manager will have been delighted to watch you drive away.  Clamping and attempting to drive away seems good explanation to me.

Post edited at 01:22
Dax H 13 Sep 2019
In reply to the abmmc:

Some of them will blatantly lie but so do customers, a favourite in my game is being asked to do a minor service a compressor and when you arrive it is already switched off and isolated.  If you are green enough to do the minor service without a test run first 99.999% of the time when you run it after the service you will find it has a much bigger problem but according to the customer it was fine before we touched it. 

martianb 13 Sep 2019
In reply to Dax H:

Spoke with the garage manager this morning. He can't explain what's happened. But is going to replace all 4 tires.

jkarran 13 Sep 2019
In reply to gethin_allen:

> This sounds plausible. Whether or not this would tear the tyre depends on the hammer. A really battered hammer that has been used to knock ten shades out of a metal object and is covered in burrs could do such damage I guess.

A hard but glancing blow from a nice smooth hammer will do it. The hammer face sticks briefly to the rubber stretching it until it splits in tension and or the hammer slips scuffing/scorching the surface or at least redistributing the surface grime.

jk

1
crogthomas 13 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

I'd say the most likely way that sort of damage would be caused would be from a vehicle, perhaps yours, perhaps another, being left resting on the tyres lying on the ground. They jacked your car up, removed the wheels and lay them on their side underneath, then lowered the vehicle onto the tyres and went to use the jack elsewhere. The inside edge was lying on the probably smooth concrete floor, hence no damage, but the sharp underside of the vehicle would have rubbed on the outer face of the tyre causing the dark patches and cutting into the rubber. I'd check the vehicle underside for corresponding clean patches of a similar shape. The fact that the wheel rim itself appears undamaged suggests it was deliberate. Care was taken to rest the vehicle on the tyre only, not the aluminium of the wheel.

martianb 13 Sep 2019
In reply to crogthomas:

Interesting theory. I'll have to have a look at the underside to see if there is anything that corresponds to the marks. I can't work out why they would lower it on to the tyres. It's a National chain and has drive on ramps and post lifts etc.

In the end the tires are being replaced with no quibbles. I'll not be using that garage again even although they have been good in the past.

Thanks for all the replies.

MartianB

NottsRich 13 Sep 2019
In reply to jkarran:

> Quite likely they've been walloped with a dirty big hammer to free them from the hub centre once the bolts were removed.

> jk


That was my first thought, but the OP said all four tyres are the same (same two marks, same shape/size etc), and that would take some quite skilled hammer work to achieve! Also, when I use a mallet to remove stubborn wheels I hit the *inside* edge of the tyre at various places around the circumference (or rim using a block of wood), but I guess other people may do it differently. I then also wondered why all four wheels would have needed to be removed. At an interim 18k mile service, no brake parts should need replacing (I'm assuming that van has 18k on the clock). I think the lift is most likely. Glad to hear the OP has had it resolved though. If it was me I'd make a formal complaint to head office. Hope you have more luck doing that than I did though!

Post edited at 11:25
balmybaldwin 13 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

> Spoke with the garage manager this morning. He can't explain what's happened. But is going to replace all 4 tires.

Good to hear.... However I would take photos of the damaged tyres and send them to the local trading standards.... there could be a pattern here

krikoman 13 Sep 2019
In reply to crogthomas:

> I'd say the most likely way that sort of damage would be caused would be from a vehicle, perhaps yours, perhaps another, being left resting on the tyres lying on the ground.

This^^ I've seen this done a few times, when they only have one jack, or they are lazy bastards who can't be arsed to get another one out.

two_tapirs 13 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

Are you sure they're your original tyres on there and not swapped?

timjones 13 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

I'd check the date codes on the tyres, I've only ever seen damage simlar to that on older tyres.

martianb 13 Sep 2019
In reply to two_tapirs:

I can't be 100% certain that they hadn't swapped the tires but I think it's unlikely. I think the tires were certainly removed from the van during the service as the locking wheel nut was on the passenger seat when I got it back and not at the back of the glove box where it is kept. 

A colleague of mine who use to be a mechanic is convinced that the wheels have been removed and a vehicle has carefully been lowered down onto the tire carefully avoiding the alloy on all 4.

I've taken various photos and footage of the damage and will decide what to do next re making a complaint/trading standards. 

Timmd 15 Sep 2019
In reply to martianb:

> A colleague of mine who use to be a mechanic is convinced that the wheels have been removed and a vehicle has carefully been lowered down onto the tire carefully avoiding the alloy on all 4.

> I've taken various photos and footage of the damage and will decide what to do next re making a complaint/trading standards. 

I think you should report it, you know. If they do it again to somebody else less on the ball, it might lead to a fatality.

If it's a part of a chain, I don't suppose you'll be potentially putting a little enterprise struggling to make a living out of business or what have you.

Post edited at 13:07

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