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Humour

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 AllanMac 29 Dec 2021

Is humour dying? It seems to me that what was once funny, now isn’t any more. Gentle pisstakes  seem to attract glaring looks of disapproval rather than mirth.

Example: My family used to own a dog when I was a kid, whose name was the same as my wife’s. I joked that my wife doesn’t obediently fetch sticks when I throw them for her (I know, I know, not very funny - and probably a poor example). My wife laughed out loud, but the younger people in the room just glowered at me and changed the subject very quickly.

If it was me (or another male) as the butt of the same stick-throwing joke, would it have been funnier? Why?

I was under the illusion that gentle pisstakes were a mark of a deeper affection for someone, and of being relaxed with a particular person’s company. Likewise, I feel more relaxed in the company of someone who feels comfortable enough to take the piss out of me.

Has something changed? Are there now more eggshells spread before us to carefully avoid treading on? 

13
 Phil1919 29 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

What was the poor dogs name? Joan? Sarah? Margaret?

 Timmd 29 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

I reckon they took it as sexist? I wouldn't say humour is 'dying out', more that it is changing. 

For what it's worth, of my 3 cousins who are all younger than 30, I think one would have laughed, another would have smiled and been unsure, and the third would have delicately changed the subject.

Post edited at 20:07
2
 Dax H 29 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

From your user name I'm assuming you are male of Scottish heritage. As such I believe you are only allowed to take the piss out of male gingers. 

 Ciro 29 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

I would have laughed at that (and made similar jokes) 20 years ago, but I wouldn't now. At least not without making it clear that I was taking the piss out of the outdated attitudes that are still lurking at the back of my mind... I still have a reflex action that makes me want to make sexist jokes in many situations, but I can generally cut it off before it gets from my brain to my mouth.

And whether intended or not, there's a sexist undertone to suggesting your partner should be obedient. Women have had to deal with churches, society, etc. telling them that men are to be obeyed for far too long, and whilst you may have an equal partnership with your wife many still do not - so it's "punching down" humour IMO, and these days try to avoid doing it, and call it out when I hear it.

I also find my attitude to piss taking in general has changed - you never know when someone might be having a rough time, and a seemingly gentle piss take could have a detrimental affect on their self-esteem.

Taking the piss is a very British way to show you care, but I'm no longer convinced it's a healthy one. 

24
 Timmd 29 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> And whether intended or not, there's a sexist undertone to suggesting your partner should be obedient. Women have had to deal with churches, society, etc. telling them that men are to be obeyed for far too long, and whilst you may have an equal partnership with your wife many still do not - so it's "punching down" humour IMO, and these days try to avoid doing it, and call it out when I hear it.

Yes indeed, have a like. I should add that in talking about my cousin who I think would laugh, I don't condone sexist humour, and that my cousin who would probably laugh just has 'broad spectrum humour response', and isn't either. 

Post edited at 21:00
7
 timjones 29 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> And whether intended or not, there's a sexist undertone to suggesting your partner should be obedient. Women have had to deal with churches, society, etc. telling them that men are to be obeyed for far too long, and whilst you may have an equal partnership with your wife many still do not - so it's "punching down" humour IMO, and these days try to avoid doing it, and call it out when I hear it.

Is there a suggestion that she should fetch sticks or merely an observation that she doesn't?

3
 Timmd 29 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

You have an interesting couple of dislikes, I wonder if they'll explain why?

23
 Luke90 29 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

> Is humour dying? It seems to me that what was once funny, now isn’t any more.

Sounds like what you're describing is humour changing rather than dying.

 DaveHK 29 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

> Is humour dying? 

No, it's just moved on.

Also, know your audience.  

Post edited at 21:14
2
 freeflyer 29 Dec 2021
In reply to Phil1919:

> What was the poor dogs name? Joan? Sarah? Margaret?

Was the wife's name Rova?

 Babika 29 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

Well said.

I find the funniest - and also the safest - is self-deprecation. Laugh at yourself before you take the piss out of others. If you can't then maybe you're not very funny?

 Duncan Bourne 29 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> I also find my attitude to piss taking in general has changed - you never know when someone might be having a rough time, and a seemingly gentle piss take could have a detrimental affect on their self-esteem.

> Taking the piss is a very British way to show you care, but I'm no longer convinced it's a healthy one. 

No dislikes but I think the opposite that piss taking can be healthy, within certain boundaries. I would not take the piss out of someone vulnerable, generally I would not take the piss out of someone I didn't know and I wouldn't take the piss out of someone for race, sex or disability. However my wife and i take the piss out of each other all the time and I take the piss out of friends I am comfortable with. At work everybody mercilessly took the piss out of everybody else which proved a better release of tension than the alternative, which in certain teams was a cold undercurrent of violence about to break out.

I certainly agree that pisstaking can have a detrimental effect on self-esteem and I have seen this, but the otherside of the coin is that it can be a bonding exercise. I only insult those people I like but never in a malicious way and never in front of others not in the group.

The web is weird however as I often take the piss out of people like Boris

1
 squarepeg 29 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

It's not dying out where I work or the company I keep or some of the forums I frequent.

Nowt wrong with the example in the OP, under normal circumstances. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth arguing with, they will never get it. 

11
OP AllanMac 29 Dec 2021
In reply to timjones:

> Is there a suggestion that she should fetch sticks or merely an observation that she doesn't?

It's the 'obediently' word that caused momentary offence, as I found out afterwards (which I can understand).

In reply to Timmd:

> You have an interesting couple of dislikes, I wonder if they'll explain why?

I will and did.

In a perfectly balanced relationship I think it would have been funny and I would have laughed and made the joke. If the wife was treated unequally then I think you have a point. This can work both ways.

My wife and I take the piss out of everything and our very personal,  private humour can be very black.

To think that the op was describing anything bad is completely daft (assuming wifey didn't turn up with a shiner at the hands of the op)

 cindy onarato 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic.  Looks like they were right.  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey".  Couldn't say I wasn't warned.  I'm out.

39
 timjones 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

> It's the 'obediently' word that caused momentary offence, as I found out afterwards (which I can understand).

It is easy to see that the word could be used in an offensive way but if it was apparent that your wife didn't have a problem it seems absurd for other people to get upset by it.

1
 timjones 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

Are you American?

The Americans are the only people who seem to get agitated about the use of "the wife".

The wife is my only wife, she is special and somewhat unique and I don't call her "my wife" because I don't own her.

5
 Ciro 30 Dec 2021
In reply to squarepeg:

> It's not dying out where I work or the company I keep or some of the forums I frequent.

> Nowt wrong with the example in the OP, under normal circumstances. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth arguing with, they will never get it. 

I certainly get it - I used to think exactly the same.

I changed my mind. If you don't see why I changed my mind, perhaps it's you who isn't getting something?

7
 Ciro 30 Dec 2021
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

> I will and did.

> In a perfectly balanced relationship I think it would have been funny and I would have laughed and made the joke. If the wife was treated unequally then I think you have a point. This can work both ways.

> My wife and I take the piss out of everything and our very personal,  private humour can be very black.

> To think that the op was describing anything bad is completely daft (assuming wifey didn't turn up with a shiner at the hands of the op)

Making jokes in a room full of people, how do you know everybody listening has never been affected by unbalanced personal relationships?

10
 veteye 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Phil1919:

I have a client's dog on the books, which is Polish, he is German, and the dog is called Linda. She's the only one that I have ever met.

Another strange (to me) name was ~30 years ago, another dog owned by a German woman, and it was called Trevor. It used to make me laugh, especially with the particular German slant on the English language.

Neither name has come up before or since. To me, both are unique. They just seem unlikely choices for Europeans.

 veteye 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

Yet at times there is misandry on here too.

3
 ThunderCat 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

> I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic.  Looks like they were right.  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey".  Couldn't say I wasn't warned.  I'm out.

Fairly mediocre flounce. 6/10.

I refer to my wife as : the wife, my wife, the boss, the missus. She refers to me as the husband, my husband. If I'm being sexist, is she? 

5
 SouthernSteve 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

Today's culture allows for people's feelings to be taken into account in a large number of situations, whether that be racism, microaggressions, poor taste jokes or whatever. This is good and is so much more useful than just people accepting others behaviour -  laughing because they feel have to or accepting that that is 'just the way they are'.

A benefit of this is that the thoughts and dialogs around these situations can lead to better understanding of others and ourselves. Surely a way to a happier world. Whether the ostracization associated with cancel culture is helpful is dubious in my mind. 

Professional comedy, pricking our consciences and giving perspective may seem to contradict, but is definitely useful (think Rachel Parris for instance). I hope this is what Maureen Lipman meant in her recent comments on the future of comedy e.g. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/comedy/news/maureen-lipman...

There is a fine line between humour and upset even in the privacy of our own houses and that is nothing to do with current culture and has always be so.

1
 Sealwife 30 Dec 2021
In reply to timjones:

Not only Americans.  I’m Scottish and I HATE women being referred to as “the wife”.  She is a human being, not an object and she has a name.

6
 Ciro 30 Dec 2021
In reply to timjones:

> Are you American?

> The Americans are the only people who seem to get agitated about the use of "the wife".

> The wife is my only wife, she is special and somewhat unique and I don't call her "my wife" because I don't own her.

That's an interesting take. As a non-American, to me "the wife" seems a bit objectifying, and "my wife" (or in my case "my partner") seems more personal. I don't own my dad, but I call him "my dad", not "the dad", and I don't think that implies any ownership.

I guess to my ear it sounds a bit like talking about "the cleaner" or "the estate agent" as opposed my "my friend" or "my mammy".

 But I can see how, with "wife", there night be a different connotation to "my" that I hadn't considered before.

 SouthernSteve 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

Are you OK with Mary, my wife? Compare this to Mary, my sister or Mary my business partner. Understanding a relationship is useful. The use of 'the' wife is often used dismissively or so is my 'current' wife, like there will be a new one next week!

My biggest beef with 'wife' is that we have a whole load of clients, who tell me 'oh the wife deals with that' when they have come to an appointment - drives me mad. First, take some responsibility! Second, don't expect me to ring someone else in the middle of a consultation because you leave everything to another. 

4
 veteye 30 Dec 2021
In reply to SouthernSteve:

Again, that idea of a husband coming along and saying that his wife deal with things, happens both ways for me. So I get "He deals with all the treatments, I just leave him to it" and the obverse too.

The worst is when someone rings up, and in the background is someone commenting throughout the conversation: Eventually the person on the 'phone says, "Hold on, can you speak to my partner". Then the noise in the background talks directly into the phone, and a lot of what has been said has to be repeated. Why that person does not take care of ringing up in the first place, I do not know. It probably is some power thing within the partnership, but who knows.

 Dr.S at work 30 Dec 2021
In reply to SouthernSteve:

> My biggest beef with 'wife' is that we have a whole load of clients, who tell me 'oh the wife deals with that' when they have come to an appointment - drives me mad. First, take some responsibility! Second, don't expect me to ring someone else in the middle of a consultation because you leave everything to another. 

Get across to VetMum’s you will fit right in!

 Duncan Bourne 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

I think we are playing wirh semantics here.

My wife refers to me as her husband like here where she doesn't want to make public my name.

It is a betray of trust to use a partners name in situations where they are not involved. Insuch circumstance wife, husband, partner is in my view perfetly acceptable.

 SouthernSteve 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Dr.S at work:

Thanks for that! Made me laugh.

is Vetmums really a thing?  They will be a very angry crowd after losing essential worker status last spring!

 Duncan Bourne 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

I would be genuinely interested in why you changed your mind.

 Dr.S at work 30 Dec 2021
In reply to SouthernSteve:

It’s a facegroup group that I (and a select band of other vetdads) somehow have been added to.

Some of the anti-husband bile is amazing!


It’s very interesting - as a mostly female group fairly heavily influenced by some of the recent Human factors/Be Kind stuff in the industry there is generally a very supportive ethos - not so much when the husband based discussions kick off.

In reply to cindy onarato:

> I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic.  Looks like they were right.  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey".  Couldn't say I wasn't warned.  I'm out.

Terrible flounce.

Assuming you were referring to me, my dearest equal life parter often calls me hubby, the husband, and sometimes the old man (or sometimes much worse). Is she being sexist, demeaning and ageist about me? 

I dont remember being offended once.

Post edited at 09:21
2
In reply to Sealwife:

> Not only Americans.  I’m Scottish and I HATE women being referred to as “the wife”.  She is a human being, not an object and she has a name.

Yes, my wife does have a name, so do I, and I cant remember the last time we referred to each other as such in company or whilst we are together other than arranging her bloomin car insurance!

We have nicknames and have fun you see.

Good gravy, what am I reading...

In reply to Ciro:

> Making jokes in a room full of people, how do you know everybody listening has never been affected by unbalanced personal relationships?

Oh my dear Jebus.

It was a daft joke, not massively funny 4/10, and a playful jibe about someone's name. To read anything more is ridiculous. 

Nor is it the comedians responsibility to check the relationship status/history of the other people when making a silly, harmless joke.

Are we really this sanitised? I can see I'm going against the current in this thread but really, have so few of you been to see proper, adult stand-up? Does nobody watch Family Guy, Frankie Boyle? 

There must be some fun times had at your parties or do you not go through fear of being offended?

Post edited at 09:24
2
 Robert Durran 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

>  I’m Scottish and I HATE women being referred to as “the wife”.  She is a human being, not an object and she has a name.

What about "the prime minister" or "the queen"? Doesn't it all depend on context - like almost all language and humour?

 deepsoup 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

I agree.  To my ear it's about on a par with Arthur Daly's "Er indoors". 

It's all quite nuanced though innit, "our lass" doesn't bother me at all.

I think the bottom line though is that basically nothing has changed - taking the piss is still fine when it's done with affection and respect, and it never was without.  Perhaps people are more ready to call you out on it when you get it wrong, I'm not sure.  If it's meant to be a joke it probably helps quite a lot if it's actually funny..

It does strike me as a bit odd though, coming on here to have a little moan that people have no sense of humour any more after trying to make a joke and falling flat on one's arse.  We've all done it some time or other, you don't quite 'read the room' right, the joke isn't quite as funny as you thought it was, whatever.  It's mortifying but you suck it up, maybe learn something from it and move on don't you?   I've seen professional comedians complaining that the 'political correctness'* of audiences was killing their humour, and I have to say some of those particular comedians are among the worst people I can think of.

*(It was a while ago - the audience would be 'woke' now, obvs.)

OP says "I was under the illusion that gentle pisstakes were a mark of a deeper affection for someone.."

Well, obviously that ain't necessarily so.  Sometimes it's affectionate and sometimes it's not, and if it's meant well but that isn't obvious it might not go down so well with others.  As somebody says above, a bit of self-deprecating humour goes a long way.  Taking the piss out of yourself first is a good place to start.

 Stichtplate 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Sealwife:

> Not only Americans.  I’m Scottish and I HATE women being referred to as “the wife”.  She is a human being, not an object and she has a name.

I'm sitting next to The Wife, discussing this and interrupting her Netflix binging.

I don't want to stick The Wife's name on here, she wouldn't like it (confirmed), I also wouldn't refer to her as My Wife, she wouldn't like it (confirmed), she also doesn't like being referred to as The Wife (confirmed).  She also is unable to come up with a way of referring to her on here that she does approve of (confirmed). She's just told me to nob off back to my prattling while she watches her telly (fair enough).

This is typical of The Wife as she's an Awkward Sod (confirmed) but then, so am I (confirmed) it's one of the reasons we love each other (confirmed). 26 years and counting.

As to humour within relationships, The Young can sod off. They're all on board with the adoption of a multitude of different pronouns to better define how they see themselves. Fine. Our use of humour is also one of the ways we define ourselves and it's infinitely more subtle, nuanced and functionally useful to how we navigate life than whether you have a preference for 'they' or 'he'.

On a wider point, humour is often a little transgressive, it should test boundaries, it should sting a little and if all these characteristics are finally expunged by the morality police the only stand ups left standing will be boring as f*ck.

2
 deepsoup 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

Excellent 'flounce'!

Whoever told you this place is mostly a bunch of sexist middle-aged men was not wrong!  But that's all the more reason why it'd be a shame if you don't post at all any more.  The place is better with you than without you.

3
 RobAJones 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

>  But I can see how, with "wife", there night be a different connotation to "my" that I hadn't considered before.

I vividly remember introducing a female colleague Sarah and her partner Jackie to some other friends. Sarah quite forcefully put me straight,  as they were now married Jackie was to be introduced as her wife (not partner) and as I attended the wedding I should have known better.  I was a bit uncomfortable and surprised as my brother always introduces Slava as his partner, to me it seemed a bit odd (perhaps a bit old fashioned ?) , but I think that is my problem not theirs. 

2
 Duncan Bourne 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Stichtplate:

I love this. I can see you on the sofa with her

The thing is attitudes are always shifting. The people who called their parents square and out of touch were called out of touch by their kids in turn and now those kids are grown up and out of touch. In a few decades the woke generation will be out of touch. It happens

 Enty 30 Dec 2021
In reply to timjones:

>

> The wife is my only wife, she is special and somewhat unique and I don't call her "my wife" because I don't own her.

I don't own my village but it's my village. The town down the road is my town.

There were two women in my house last night. One was my wife, the other was my friend's wife.

E

 Duncan Bourne 30 Dec 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

Middle aged? I feel all young again now

 Trangia 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Enty

> There were two women in my house last night. One was my wife, the other was my friend's wife.

And are you going to tell your friend about this menage a trois?

1
 abr1966 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> Making jokes in a room full of people, how do you know everybody listening has never been affected by unbalanced personal relationships?

No....of course you can't know...

Likewise the contribution of Babika earlier relating to self deprecatory humour.....there is no way of knowing if someone was depressed, self loathing and hated themselves and heard self deprecating humour that connects to them at a different level than the person delivering it wasn't aware of...

The trouble with all of this is where to draw a line. Some folk might be shocked to hear the humour we share at work in the NHS...I am the only bloke in a team of 6 where there is constant piss take that is very close to the edge...

Humour and piss taking serves a great regulatory function in groups of people....it's important that with an appropriate degree of sensitivity that this continues......the avoidance of a topic which 'may' cause offence or upset to someone shouldn't be the line in the sand in my view...

1
 Moacs 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Duncan Bourne:

> I love this. I can see you on the sofa with her

Put away the telescope Duncan.  That's not what Santa gave it to you for

 Duncan Bourne 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Moacs:

There was another reason?

 Robert Durran 30 Dec 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

> Whoever told you this place is mostly a bunch of sexist middle-aged men was not wrong! 

Yes they were.

> But that's all the more reason why it'd be a shame if you don't post at all any more.  The place is better with you than without you.

Well you are hardly helping by reinforcing daft misconceptions.

2
 Dax H 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Enty:

We have a bit of paper somewhere that says we are husband and wife.

In a social situation I introducer her by name or she introduces me by name. Depending on who we are meeting this may be preceded of followed by the words wife or husband. 

On here I refer to her as the Mrs and I just asked, she is fine with that and typically refers to me as her husband online to people who don't know me. 

 Cobra_Head 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Phil1919:

> What was the poor dogs name? Joan? Sarah? Margaret?

shithead

 Cobra_Head 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

> I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic. 

Who told you that?

 deepsoup 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Robert Durran:

Well, if I'm one of those responsible for giving people the idea that UKC is full of sexist grumpy old blokes I can only apologise.  Ha ha.

Post edited at 11:56
1
 petemeads 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Dax H:

I'm Pete, a female colleague who could not remember my wife's name once referred to her as Mrs Pete and this is how I generally refer to her on here and elsewhere. Useful because we don't share the surname, by her choice.

OP AllanMac 30 Dec 2021
In reply to veteye:

That's a coincidence. The dog mentioned in my OP was also called Lindy. (When my mum shouted for her from the front door, it was 'Linda'). She was a beautiful rough collie. When she died, we got another collie and gave her a German name.

OP AllanMac 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

> I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic.  Looks like they were right.  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey".  Couldn't say I wasn't warned.  I'm out.

I'm sorry you're out cindy (I use a lower case 'c' because you did). Your reply is precisely the hair-trigger response I'm trying to understand because it makes people seem unapproachable and 'cordoned off'.

I would like to have heard more from you about why it seems ok to laugh at jokes based around misandry, more than it is to laugh at those around misogyny. Also, I'd like to ask what you consider would be the best way of rebalancing decades of sexual inequality? Is it through anger (hair trigger assumptions), or by first establishing an understanding of inherent biological and behavioural opposites (education)? 

I, and many others on UKC, may be middle aged men - but would say very few are misogynistic.

4
 planetmarshall 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

> I would like to have heard more from you about why it seems ok to laugh at jokes based around misandry, more than it is to laugh at those around misogyny.

See above comments on "Punching up" and power dynamics. Your original joke wouldn't personally offend me but I might file in a box marked "Last funny at some point in the Seventies, try again ten years after Brexit".

4
 deepsoup 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

> I would like to have heard more from you about why it seems ok to laugh at jokes based around misandry, more than it is to laugh at those around misogyny. Also, I'd like to ask what you consider would be the best way of rebalancing decades of sexual inequality?

Bearing in mind that this is UKC, can you see how this might look like you're spoiling for an argument?  Argumentative gobshites like, well, me, are ridiculously overrepresented on here but you know not everyone is into that right?

Even if it doesn't seem that way to cindy, why on earth should she explain this stuff to you?  Honestly it sounds exhausting.  Maybe she just wants to shoot the shit on here without feeling obliged to 'rebalance decades of sexual inequality'.

Meanwhile, if you want answers have you tried reading something?  Maybe start by looking into reasons why it might be a tad dodgy to talk about 'misandry' and 'misogyny' if they're basically equivalent in our society.

On that - here's one I just googled up to start you off..
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/misandry-men-hate-crime-women-sexism-r...

9
 peppermill 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> I would have laughed at that (and made similar jokes) 20 years ago, but I wouldn't now. At least not without making it clear that I was taking the piss out of the outdated attitudes that are still lurking at the back of my mind... I still have a reflex action that makes me want to make sexist jokes in many situations, but I can generally cut it off before it gets from my brain to my mouth.

> And whether intended or not, there's a sexist undertone to suggesting your partner should be obedient. Women have had to deal with churches, society, etc. telling them that men are to be obeyed for far too long, and whilst you may have an equal partnership with your wife many still do not - so it's "punching down" humour IMO, and these days try to avoid doing it, and call it out when I hear it.

> I also find my attitude to piss taking in general has changed - you never know when someone might be having a rough time, and a seemingly gentle piss take could have a detrimental affect on their self-esteem.

> Taking the piss is a very British way to show you care, but I'm no longer convinced it's a healthy one. 

Jeez. You must feel like you're walking on egg shells.

I agree there's a line but if I wasn't constantly being mercilessly torn apart at work or by friends it would give me a bit of a complex that everyone else either didn't trust me/thought I was an arse etc etc. 

Bear in mind I'm talking about people I know well, know which areas are a "No go" and we'd have no issue telling each other to go forth and multiply if it went too far.

Banter is a privilege and all that. 

Post edited at 14:41
OP AllanMac 30 Dec 2021
In reply to planetmarshall:

> See above comments on "Punching up" and power dynamics. Your original joke wouldn't personally offend me but I might file in a box marked "Last funny at some point in the Seventies, try again ten years after Brexit".

I know, I'm a dad who tells awful dad jokes. The formative years (for me) of the seventies were full of them, and I guess they became ingrained. Like vinyl records and film cameras, things have a habit of coming back, so I could be ahead of my time

I understand dynamics, but have less understanding (in the context of human relations) why anything has to be punched up, down, or sideways. Aggressive punching goes against the very stability it purports to achieve - unless for some there is a latency of addiction to instability. Why punch when one can just as easily, and more effectively, converse and educate - yet still retain the dynamics of opposites?

2
 peppermill 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

> It's the 'obediently' word that caused momentary offence, as I found out afterwards (which I can understand).

I think your wife and you did very well not to lay it on thick just to make them feel uncomfortable ;p

1
OP AllanMac 30 Dec 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

> Bearing in mind that this is UKC, can you see how this might look like you're spoiling for an argument?  Argumentative gobshites like, well, me, are ridiculously overrepresented on here but you know not everyone is into that right?

> Even if it doesn't seem that way to cindy, why on earth should she explain this stuff to you?  Honestly it sounds exhausting.  Maybe she just wants to shoot the shit on here without feeling obliged to 'rebalance decades of sexual inequality'.

> Meanwhile, if you want answers have you tried reading something?  Maybe start by looking into reasons why it might be a tad dodgy to talk about 'misandry' and 'misogyny' if they're basically equivalent in our society.

> On that - here's one I just googled up to start you off..https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/misandry-men-hate-crime-women-sexism-r...

There's a difference between spoiling for an argument and wanting to understand. I aim for the latter, not the former. In my book, those shooting the shit are the ones spoiling for argument, and are perhaps taken aback by those whose style is polite inquiry, which if reciprocated, is anything but tiring. It can actually be very stimulating.

 squarepeg 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

God there's some big headed twaddle on here.

Nothing is funny, never mind a humour thread.

People throwing a strop at nothing - and leaving! 

1
 Andrew Wells 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

I think this can take two forms

There's people being a bit overly sensitive towards jokes made between individuals who are perfectly comfortable 

And there's people who consider jokes made at the expense of disadvantaged groups to be punching down, unfunny and the mark of someone bring a prick.

I think the latter has definitely increased and I'm alright with that. Listen to some of the stand up comedy from even only 15-20 years ago, its truly awful in places. Little Britain used to have outright blackface for example. So I think people being less tolerant of that is fine. But in your instance yeah I reckon they could do with lightening up.

4
 Niall_H 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

>  have less understanding (in the context of human relations) why anything has to be punched up, down, or sideway

I suspect it has something to do with positions in the power-structure: it's very easy to find something inoffensive (and just "questioning", "conversing", "educating", or the dreaded "debating")  when one is towards the top of structure; and similarly easy to see the same actions as "punching" if one is not.

For myself, I find derogatory comments (like comparing a partner to a pet) don't read as humour to me (in the same way that derogatory "banter" doesn't) - they just seem mean-spirited, and I can easily see why people might feel the desire to change the conversational direction.  That's not the death of humour, or an excess of eggshells, it's just a reflection that folks can view things differently and that that can change with time or generation.

ETA: In the time it took me to type that, it seems that Andrew Wells has done a more concise version!

Post edited at 17:23
1
 Timmd 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

> I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic.  Looks like they were right.  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey".  Couldn't say I wasn't warned.  I'm out.

That's a shame. 

(None sarcastic tone)

2
 Yanis Nayu 30 Dec 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

> Excellent 'flounce'!

> Whoever told you this place is mostly a bunch of sexist middle-aged men was not wrong!  But that's all the more reason why it'd be a shame if you don't post at all any more.  The place is better with you than without you.

Quite hard to work that out from someone who has posted 4 times and flounced-off making a sweeping criticism of the forum’s users because someone committed the heinous crime of writing “The Wife”. 

2
 timjones 30 Dec 2021
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

It would indeed be strange to refer to your partner as anything other than their name when in company that you both know.

However,  if you are strangers and want to nip off the phone the wife they would not necessarily know who you were talking about.

 timjones 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Enty:

I don't think I have a village, I have a home and I usually just call it home with no "my" and no "the"

We will all use language slightly differently, it seems absurd to get offended by it.

1
 Luke90 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Stichtplate:

> On a wider point, humour is often a little transgressive, it should test boundaries, it should sting a little and if all these characteristics are finally expunged by the morality police the only stand ups left standing will be boring as f*ck.

But is this actually happening?! As someone who loves comedy and watches a reasonable amount of stand-up either in person or recorded, it doesn't feel like it's getting boring to me. It certainly still tests boundaries, albeit perhaps different boundaries to those commonly tested a few years ago. Of course, if it was still testing all the same boundaries, it probably would get boring.

Post edited at 17:55
 Dax H 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

Just been flicking through the Sky movie menu looking for a film to watch tonight and Flash Gordon came up. The synopsis actually starts with (or words to the effect of) This film contains outdated theams and views that don't hold up to modern standards and may cause offence to some viewers. 

 deepsoup 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

The forum would be improved by the participation of just about anyone who increases the diversity of the place a little bit and posts in good faith, whether it's 40 posts or 4 posts or one.  Middle-aged men are grotesquely overrepresented on here, and the tone of the place often is a bit sexist.

In a low grade humdrum 'background' kind of a way mostly - the OP's joke was lame but he's not Chubby Brown or anything.  'Misogyny' is a big word, not one I was offended by though.  Either for myself or on behalf of my fellow male middle-aged UKC posting gobshites.  You?

I get that flouncing out is never a good look, nevertheless in this case I reckon the forum would be a marginally better place if the flouncee were to change her mind and stick around.

2
 Yanis Nayu 30 Dec 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

I’m afraid I know I’m out of kilter with society but I simply don’t agree that *anybody* would improve the forum as long as they’re not white, middle-aged and male. My view is that anyone decent who contributes would be welcome. I also don’t agree that it’s a bad place, especially in social media terms. The good on here vastly outweighs the bad.
I’m not offended by the ‘misogyny’ comment personally as I don’t go out of my way to be offended, and I wouldn’t be so presumptuous to be offended on anyone else’s behalf, but given that being called a misogynist is such a loaded accusation these days it’s a pretty strong assertion to make. 
Afraid I don’t have a lot of time for people who come on here, among lots of good people helping each other, and just slag it off. No great loss as far as I’m concerned. 
 

 deepsoup 30 Dec 2021
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> I’m afraid I know I’m out of kilter with society but I simply don’t agree that *anybody* would improve the forum as long as they’re not white, middle-aged and male. My view is that anyone decent who contributes would be welcome.

Are you out of kilter with society?  How so?

I agree that anyone who makes a positive contribution is welcome*, and it's perfectly possible that a white middle-aged male poster might flounce out and subsequently return to make this a better place.  (With a lot of nature photos and friendly blether, for a hypothetical example.)

*(Or photos of cats, or an opinion on the grade of TPS, or Billie Holiday songs or the relative sizes of different breeds of ferret. Christ, pretty much anything but covid/anti-vaxx misinformation at this point.)**

**(Or a whinge about how the world is so woke now you can't even make an incredibly lame joke any more without bloody bleeding heart lefties viciously not laughing at it.  It's cancel culture, that's what it is.)

But we do lack diversity and that's a shame, so I for one particularly welcome anyone who brings a bit of a fresh perspective y'know?

> I also don’t agree that it’s a bad place, especially in social media terms.

You're putting words in my mouth there, I never said it's a bad place.  I said it's a bit sexist much of the time.  That's just normal, everywhere in our society pretty much, especially where diversity is lacking and it's mostly just a bunch of blokes bickering and exchanging blokey banter.  (And yes, yes, good people helping each other - it can be a whole bunch of different things at the same time, a mass of contradictions even.)

> I’m not offended by the ‘misogyny’ comment personally..

Cool, neither of us was offended.  Lovely.  Just as it should be.

> Afraid I don’t have a lot of time for people who come on here, among lots of good people helping each other, and just slag it off. No great loss as far as I’m concerned. 

And you're quite sure you weren't just a teensy tiny bit offended?  No?  Cool.  Just checking.

Is there an internet 'law' (a la Godwin) about a discussion of 'humour' necessarily always being utterly humourless?  I have a vague inkling that there is.  If not there probably should be.

1
 Pete Pozman 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

> I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic.  Looks like they were right.  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey".  Couldn't say I wasn't warned.  I'm out.

Hmm... I think you should give it another go. The original post sounds like a guy making a cack handed faux pas then looking around for someone to say "don't worry mate you're fine. "

In reply to Pete Pozman:

>  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey". 

Well, I think that's funny.

 Robert Durran 30 Dec 2021
In reply to cindy onarato:

> I was told when I signed up here that it was mostly a bunch of middle aged men being misogynistic.

You were misinformed.

>  Looks like they were right.  A thread where a bunch of men think it's OK discuss how they aren't sexist - yet use words such as "the wife" and "wifey".

Nobody used those words. Why make stuff up?

Post edited at 22:26
2
 CantClimbTom 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

Wow.. the thread has proven its own premise this quickly??? 

2
 squarepeg 30 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

If you don't all behave I will send wifey round to sort you out. 

 Enty 31 Dec 2021
In reply to Dax H:

I live with three females. My wife, my daughter and my cat. To keep things simple I refer to all three just as Knob Head. Sometimes tricky when all three are in the room at the same time as they all look up at once.

E

 Moacs 31 Dec 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

 

> On that - here's one I just googled up to start you off..https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/misandry-men-hate-crime-women-sexism-r...

Agree with the sentiment ... but that's a shit article!

 magma 31 Dec 2021
In reply to AllanMac:

dying humour is still alive: youtube.com/watch?v=6zfy4hPyMLc&

 Hat Dude 31 Dec 2021
In reply to timjones:

> It would indeed be strange to refer to your partner as anything other than their name when in company that you both know.

Having received Christmas cards with at least 4 different spellings of my spouse's name I'm not so sure 😉

OP AllanMac 01 Jan 2022
In reply to AllanMac:

Thanks all for your interesting thoughts.

Happy New Year everybody.

 felt 01 Jan 2022
In reply to magma:

The first appearance of Irma Kostroski. What a plot device she is!


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