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I'm out

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 tehmarks 23 Mar 2020

The attitude on this forum at the minute is appalling. Countless threads on the exact same topic, all with the same deeply unpleasant undertone, and virtually every other post is an attack on someone. No respect, little desire to engage in reasoned adult discussion, nada. I saw Alan James posting earlier saying he's had a handful of complaints because UKC have dared post some climbing news? What the f*ck do you think UKC should post?

I can't say I've ever frequented a forum with this level of caustic interaction. It's disgusting. Grow up.

I'm off until sanity prevails.

14
 ena sharples 23 Mar 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

This is nothing-for woke central you should try the Guardian.

21
 Timmd 23 Mar 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

It can be a forum of jibes being aimed at one another, 'tuning it out' can be helpful. 

1
In reply to tehmarks:

Bye then

See you next Tuesday 

34
 The Lemming 23 Mar 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

I miss Brexit

2
 profitofdoom 23 Mar 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

> .....It's disgusting. Grow up. > I'm off until sanity prevails.

I understand how you feel, teh_mark, I really do. But with respect I feel differently to you. IMO people are deeply upset. I'm sure some people are deeply anxious and / or depressed, dealing with a situation they've never seen in their lifetime, and I want to understand how people feel and react, and give them a lot of leeway

Reading UKC has been very helpful for me in the last 2 weeks or so. I am British and live in the UK - but for now I'm in South Korea [and so cut off in some ways]: I'm supposed to come back fairly soon but flying / travelling is hard now and my family are saying to me "Why don't you stay there for now". I'm getting worried and again, reading UKC is VERY helpful for me these days. And I bet loads of people on UKC feel the same as me, though they're not virtually stranded out of the UK

Thanks for listening and take care of yourself, teh_mark

 Siward 23 Mar 2020
In reply to profitofdoom:

Ukc IS a marvellous resource and is the finest bit of social media going BUT is has got all a bit Salem Witch trially at the moment.  Lecturing folk on here isn't translating to peoples' behaviour outside of this bubble.

 wintertree 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Siward:

> Lecturing folk on here isn't translating to peoples' behaviour outside of this bubble.

Which is worrying really, when it’s been explained from many different angles and when there've been pleas from medical professionals.

The next step seems inevitable.  I imagine some of those complaining about words on UKC are going to be back complaining about life under an enforced lockdown.

At the risk of lecturing, this isn’t a “bubble”. It’s people who’ve seen the immediate future.

Post edited at 07:49
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In reply to tehmarks:

I think people have a right to be a bit preachy, apart from the national good, risking lives, bad press for climbers could jeopardise future access. If now grown up Lord Fauntelroy sees climbers heading out across his estate, it doesn't look good etc.. we survived foot and mouth, if folk follow the advice this will pass too.  

7
 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Bye then

> See you next Tuesday 

Is this one of your attempts at 'tightrope' humour?  Because if it is you've misjudged it rather. 

If it isn't, then there's just no need for that and you're being an absolute 'See you next Tuesday' yourself.

Post edited at 09:19
 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to tehmarks:

> I can't say I've ever frequented a forum with this level of caustic interaction. It's disgusting. Grow up.

> I'm off until sanity prevails.

Take me with you.  I can see.  I can see perfectly.   <- feeble attempt at a joke.

Please don't flounce out altogether, I'll miss you.  If you could take a break, then post again occasionally (but try not to rise to the bait) that would probably help a bit with that sanity thing.

2
In reply to deepsoup:

No it wasn’t. I expect the OP to be back active again on the forums by Tuesday if not before. In my experience nearly anyone who makes a new thread announcing their departure, is not really intending to leave. Seen it tens of times. Why did you think I was doing “tightrope humour”?

Post edited at 09:32
17
In reply to deepsoup:

I found it completely inoffensive and even had a little chuckle. 

By all means, if anyone is fed up with the debate or UKC in general at the moment , take some time out.

But why the need to announce it by devoting an entire thread to it? Just do it.

Post edited at 09:42
3
 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> No it wasn’t. I expect the OP to be back .. by Tuesday

> Why did you think I was doing “tightrope humour”?

Oh for the love of God man - you're either being really thick or you're pretending to be.  I genuinely have no idea which.

Because "see you next tuesday" is an idiom that does not mean 'see you next tuesday'. 
When you say "see you next Tuesday" to somebody you are calling them a c*nt.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/see-you-next-tuesday/

8
In reply to deepsoup:

Charmed.
When did "happening to not know some juvenile idiom" start to mean "being really thick"?

13
 nufkin 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

You learn something new every day!

In reply to deepsoup:

Never occurred to me. Happy to be called thick for not knowing about such stuff.

Oh dear! Better stop calling my neighbour by her first name since Karen seems to have some derogatory connotations I didn't know till ninety seconds ago.

Post edited at 10:27
 marsbar 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Are you seriously telling us you meant that innocently!  

It was just an admin error.  

Pull the other one, it's got bells on. 

1
In reply to marsbar:

Why make assumptions about other people's familiarity with slang and idiom?

It should be pretty obvious that if I had understood the idiom I wouldn't have posted that I found it completely inoffensive.

Post edited at 10:33
 marsbar 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

The assumption from reading it vs writing it is different.  

I can see easily how you could hear or read it and not know.  In fact that's part of the particular joke, it sounds entirely innocent.  

But to write something so specific as that, it's far far less likely to be innocent.  

5
In reply to marsbar:

Yes I suppose there's a one in seven chance BS is guilty as charged.....

 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

>  Oops.  Very sorry teh_mark.  I had no idea that's what the phrase "see you next Tuesday" actually means, and obviously I had no intention of calling you a c*nt.

There you go, I fixed it for you. 

This is what the nice guy you really are, deep down, would have said instead of getting all huffy and defensive.

6
In reply to deepsoup:

Fairly natural to get defensive when you actually believe you're innocent.

1
In reply to Tom V:

> Fairly natural to get defensive when you actually believe you're innocent.

I didn't spot the alternate interpretation myself although I though it seemed an odd way of saying it as 'see you soon' or 'see you next week, would be more natural

 Agar Jelly 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> Yes I suppose there's a one in seven chance BS is guilty as charged.....

Two in seven! Thursday also begins with a 'T'

 Flinticus 23 Mar 2020
In reply to nufkin:

> You learn something new every day!

Likewise. Never heard that before, though my wife is familiar with it, as some weak souls have used in at her work place. 

 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> Fairly natural to get defensive when you actually believe you're innocent.

True, though there's innocent and innocent isn't there.  I mean not having committed some faux-pas in the first place is not quite the same as clearly having done so but accidentally. 

I've made an arse of myself on here a few times to be sure, and managed to climb down gracefully once or twice as well - it's actually much easier to do having overstepped the mark accidentally rather than having got carried away in the moment, frustrated, angry or whatever and done so because you meant it at the time.

What I meant by the 'tightrope' thing was a reference to something that Blue said in a post on some other thread a while back concerning his approach to the forums here.  He said he doesn't regard posting on here as a real conversation with real people but rather sees it as a kind of game, and it amuses him to walk a virtual 'tightrope' and wind people up by keeping what he says just the right side of polite whilst maintaining a kind of passive-aggressive edge. 

That absolutely baffled me but it often comes to mind when I'm reading his posts.  He's intelligent and articulate, and is generally clever with his words, even erudite - and that's why I'm still wondering now whether he made an honest mistake or saw an opportunity to be very rude to teh-mark in a 'plausibly deniable' way and took it, just for fun.

1
In reply to deepsoup:

> True, though there's innocent and innocent isn't there.  I mean not having committed some faux-pas in the first place is not quite the same as clearly having done so but accidentally. 

> I've made an arse of myself on here a few times to be sure, and managed to climb down gracefully once or twice as well - it's actually much easier to do having overstepped the mark accidentally rather than having got carried away in the moment, frustrated, angry or whatever and done so because you meant it at the time.

> What I meant by the 'tightrope' thing was a reference to something that Blue said in a post on some other thread a while back concerning his approach to the forums here.  He said he doesn't regard posting on here as a real conversation with real people but rather sees it as a kind of game, and it amuses him to walk a virtual 'tightrope' and wind people up by keeping what he says just the right side of polite whilst maintaining a kind of passive-aggressive edge. 

> That absolutely baffled me but it often comes to mind when I'm reading his posts.  He's intelligent and articulate, and is generally clever with his words, even erudite - and that's why I'm still wondering now whether he made an honest mistake or saw an opportunity to be very rude to teh-mark in a 'plausibly deniable' way and took it, just for fun.

Read the same post. Seems a little suspicious as it was posted on Monday

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

It was posted at something like 00:37, which still felt like Sunday night to me. Sunday being part of the weekend meant that Tuesday felt like “next week”. There seems to be a lot of over-analysis here! The fact that it’s never ever been my style to call somebody by a very offensive name, either in real life or on these forums, seems to be conveniently overlooked by deepsoup. I don’t even use “prick”. 

Post edited at 13:58
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 marsbar 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Personally I don’t see it as especially offensive as it is clearly a comedy expression.  I’m not accusing you of anything I wouldn’t do myself in certain contexts.  

I am happy to give you the benefit of the doubt as I cannot prove you knew what it meant.  

1
In reply to marsbar:

Thank you! 

1
In reply to deepsoup:

> Oh for the love of God man - you're either being really thick or you're pretending to be.  I genuinely have no idea which. 

> When you say "see you next Tuesday" to somebody you are calling them a c*nt.

Well I must be exceptionally thick then because I was feeling completely baffled and had to actually click on the link to have it spelt out to me.

Very happy to give Blue Straggler the benefit of the doubt, though my money's on Thursday.

In reply to Tom V:

> Yes I suppose there's a one in seven chance BS is guilty as charged.....

Surely you mean there is a one in seven chance that, if one assumes he is innocent, he has accidentally offended some people.

1
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Very happy to give Blue Straggler the benefit of the doubt, though my money's on Thursday.

I think my prediction had already guaranteed that the OP will make a point of NOT returning on Tuesday! And now, probably not Thursday either...

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In reply to Blue Straggler:

Some people  (Like me) would refer to tomorrow as "This Tuesday" and 31st March as "Next Tuesday" so there's plenty of time yet.

Post edited at 14:59
 mbh 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I've never heard of the Tuesday connotation mentioned here. Your comment made me laugh because it had the incongruity of the Eddie Izzard Macbeth witches sketch (When shall we three meet again..Tuesday!)  you probably know of.

 Timmd 23 Mar 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

> What I meant by the 'tightrope' thing was a reference to something that Blue said in a post on some other thread a while back concerning his approach to the forums here.  He said he doesn't regard posting on here as a real conversation with real people but rather sees it as a kind of game, and it amuses him to walk a virtual 'tightrope' and wind people up by keeping what he says just the right side of polite whilst maintaining a kind of passive-aggressive edge. 

> That absolutely baffled me but it often comes to mind when I'm reading his posts.  He's intelligent and articulate, and is generally clever with his words, even erudite - and that's why I'm still wondering now whether he made an honest mistake or saw an opportunity to be very rude to teh-mark in a 'plausibly deniable' way and took it, just for fun.

I think over time the 'general nature' of people seeps through enough that one can have an educated guess. 

Post edited at 15:18
 lithos 23 Mar 2020

does nobody listen to JamCrack Podcast ?  plenty of Tuesday references.

I am gobsmacked by lack of familiarity.

 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Timmd:

I wrote quite a long post, then read yours as I was about to post it and decided on the whole it would be better if I just didn't.

I wouldn't ordinarily have a lot of patience with what we generally call a 'flounce' like the post at the top of this thread.  Bit dramatic.  But these aren't ordinary times, people are seriously stressed out and we all need to try to be a bit kinder to each other than usual.  I'll miss teh_mark and hope he will change his mind and continue to post from time to time after all.  Even if that does by some chance happen to be on a Tuesday, perhaps Blue will manage to be magnanimous about it.

In reply to deepsoup:

> perhaps Blue will manage to be magnanimous about it.

I just had to look up “magnanimous” to make sure it meant what I thought it meant. The OP is not a “rival” and there would be no “forgiveness” of anything required, should he return (which I hope for too, actually). Are you sure you meant “magnanimous”? 

4
 Ridge 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Tom V:

> Yes I suppose there's a one in seven chance BS is guilty as charged.....

Nope, one in seven of him being innocently unaware...

 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Are you sure you meant “magnanimous”? 

I can't shake the feeling you're somehow subtly taking the piss, but yes - in the sense of being gracious in victory having won a game or contest of some kind.  Not to do with forgiveness, more a generosity of spirit.

In reply to deepsoup:

Ah right. I only very briefly looked it up and the first hit on Google was emphasising forgiveness and “rivalry” 

1
In reply to deepsoup:

> I can't shake the feeling you're somehow subtly taking the piss

Incidentally I think this dogged obsession of yours is weird, not entirely healthy, and really rather ungentlemanly. Have you considered that giving it a rest might be a nice gesture? I post something harmless and you basically encourage some bizarre all-day witch hunt (starting by calling me “incredibly thick”) based upon YOU being wrong about a coincidence of phrasing. 
Stop it. 

6
In reply to the thread:

Another data point: I also had no idea of the alternative meaning of the phrase prior to today, and think that the protestations of innocence should be accepted.

2
 Timmd 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler: I guess he only posted about a previous post of your's to do with you liking posting in a way which could be taken either way, because you already had done on this thread? 

I see what you might feel got at though....

Post edited at 19:47
In reply to Timmd:

> I guess he only posted about a previous post of your's to do with you liking posting in a way which could be taken either way

The previous post which he has brought up several times without quoting it directly, because to not quote it directly enables him to subtly alter what I'd said, to make me sound "worse". 

> , because you already had done on this thread? 

Inadvertently/accidentally though...

 

> I see what you might feel got at though....

That doesn't take a huge amount of perceptiveness. 
Let's see:
deepsoup misunderstands my post, and starts a heroic crusade to defend some innocent poster from supposed bullying, by......leading a bullying attack on another innocent poster! The irony seems to have been lost on EVERYONE. 

5
 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> this dogged obsession of yours is weird, not entirely healthy

Yeah, well I was a doggedly obsessive weird guy before I abruptly became unemployed last week along with all my colleagues and most of my friends and we all got confined to barracks.  If you think I'm "not entirely healthy" now just wait.

> I post something harmless

You euphemistically called the man a c*nt, to have done so accidentally makes you blameless but doesn't make what you posted harmless.  I'm not wrong about that, though of course I may well be wrong to suspect you did so deliberately rather than it just being an odd coincidence.

> starting by calling me “incredibly thick”

I have called you "intelligent", "clever" with your words, and "even erudite" in this thread, and I accused you of being incredibly thick in that one post (or perhaps just pretending to be) - a criticism not of you but of what you had said.  It's the difference between "he is stupid" and "he is being stupid".

I don't think you can have it both ways really, if you're going to write insensitively it doesn't seem fair to simultaneously claim to be a sensitive flower and complain that what you read has hurt your feelings.

I haven't crossed the line that you never cross in your own posts, you've had no personal abuse in this thread from me or anybody else.  If you're feeling a bit bullied now somehow I'm sorry about that, but it is interesting isn't it.

In reply to deepsoup:

Sorry you have lost your job. 


Your initial suspicion was acceptable - the day of continuous follow-up accusations, less so. 
I have not claimed to be a sensitive flower nor complained that anyone has hurt my feelings. I have described a pattern of bullying. 

I am finally finished with this thread. 

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 deepsoup 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> The previous post which he has brought up several times without quoting it directly, because to not quote it directly enables him to subtly alter what I'd said, to make me sound "worse". 

I'm not intentionally trying to make anything sound worse, if I'm misrepresenting what you said then it's because I misunderstood you so by all means feel free to clarify what you meant.  Or not, no biggie.

>  by......leading a bullying attack on another innocent poster!

Ok, you clearly feel you've had a bit of a kicking here.  Wasn't my intention, believe it if you like, but I feel I've gained a bit of insight into the bullying thing here.  (I think I may owe the Lemming an apology actually, from way back.)  But it's obviously time to knock it on the head now.  Well past time probably, so I'll not reply on this thread again.

1
 Tim Davies 23 Mar 2020

Another deserter from UKC until it cleans its act up. 

1
 Bob Kemp 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Tim Davies:

I'd have said that UKC has 'cleaned its act up' since the good old days! 

1
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> I am finally finished with this thread. 

"Well, bye."

See you tomorrow, which happens to be a Tuesday. 

In reply to tehmarks:

I must be reading a different forum. I see impassioned pleas for sensible behaviour, with increasing exasperation at the selfish attitude of some. I'm not sure where you see the 'unpleasant undertone'.

1
In reply to tehmarks:

Nice one, 9/10


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