UKC

/ Income Protection for a climber

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kermit_uk - on 09 Mar 2018

Looking for a bit of advice or ideas.

Buying a new house very soon and figured bigger house, bigger mortgage etc maybe I should get some income protection. My mortgage broker also advised it (he will get commission if he finds me something, so unsurprising). Due to no wife or kids and the fact that the capital I have in this house and another means should I die etc my family won't be left with any debt worries or funeral costs I am not currently looking at life or critical illness cover. Just something that if i can't work for a prolonged period I can continue to live and pay my bills etc.

Here then is the problem. Tell an insurance company you Rock climb, boulder, mountaineer, Ice climb, mountain bike and they won't cover me. 

Just wondering what others have done, do you just not say you do those things and accept that if the time off work is due to a climbing accident you won't get paid? Insure yourself for climbing separately or are there companies out there that will insure you and not up the premium to a silly level?

The annoying thing is I know I am far more likely to injure myself and need time off work falling off the bike than I am climbing. This policy won't cover death (potentially more likely climbing) yet the mountain biking isn't an issue at all.

 

Any thoughts, dare I say it (on these forums) even useful, helpful advice appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

1
Jon Stewart - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

Not supporting a family - do you really need the insurance? How likely are you to not be working for sufficiently long for it to be a serious situation? If it's that bad, have you got some savings or would you be prepared to use the property as a back-up if something awful happens?

I've been strongly advised to get this type of insurance by people who will personally benefit from me buying it, but I think it's bollocks if there's no one else depending on your income. If it all goes tits up for me, I'll sort it out from my own resources - and the likelihood is that I won't ever have to.

bigbobbyking - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Try summit financial services, I think the bmc have a link. They sorted me out. 

 

Mark Kemball - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

Critical illness has a lot to recommend it. When my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer (happily now all clear), it paid off our mortgage. If you were to have such an illness, having to somehow find the money to cover the mortgage or having to sell the house would be a major additional stress in your life and would not help with possible recovery.

summo on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

>  How likely are you to not be working for sufficiently long for it to be a serious situation? 

Remember foot & mouth. If your office is closed, you can't get into work. 

C4T - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

Try Legal & General. They covered me

Jon Stewart - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to summo:

> Remember foot & mouth. If your office is closed, you can't get into work. 

Strong or weak argument? 

summo on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Strong or weak argument? 

You tell me?

Foot and mouth was a real event, that has happened in recent times and stopped people in many sectors working, not just climbers, there were knock on effects to those working in tourist accommodation, cafes etc.. too.

The impact will depend on the person skill set and ability to diversify. Future risk? It was not the first UK F&M incident, is it likely to be the last.  

Dax H - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Not supporting a family - do you really need the insurance? How likely are you to not be working for sufficiently long enough to matter. 

If it all goes tits up for me, I'll sort it out from my own resources - and the likelihood is that I won't ever have to.

 

How long can you get by on your own resources? My Wife has just returned to work after a kidney infection that has caused 2 years of down time, fortunately we got by on savings and my wage but much longer and we would have lost the house. A mate of mine crashed his MTB and was off for a year, he has been back at work 2 months but goes under the knife again next week and is looking at maybe another 6 months if recovery time. Another friend of mine crashed her motorbike and is paralysed from her waist down in her right leg plus other complications. That happened 2 years ago and she is still not fit for work and may never be. It's great if your in a position to cover the mortgage and bills in the event of an accident but not everyone is. 

 

1
Jon Stewart - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Dax H:

> It's great if your in a position to cover the mortgage and bills in the event of an accident but not everyone is. 

I'm not. I'd sell my flat. But I judge the risk to be low enough to be happy with that - much happier than paying premiums that pray on my fears of events that are very unlikely. Might be different if I was at higher risk, e.g. Motorcycling, perhaps skiing. But the risk from trad climbing (and other aspects of my lifestyle) is negligible. 

1
Jon Stewart - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to summo:

> You tell me?

I don't have any information to evaluate the probability, but I've only seen one occurrence in 40 years. And it had 0 impact on my earnings, the same with everyone I know apart from someone in agriculture. 

Doesn't striks me as a large enough risk to justify the premiums. 

 

1
Jim25 - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

I'm in the same situation as you. 

Climber, mtbiker and motorcycle racer too. 

I've been insured for the last few years with a company called Properly Protected. They offer different levels of accident cover that cover all sports across the world.  I've used them when I had a big bike crash and broke my pelvis, they paid out, no questions or dramas, which helped out pay rent and bills at that time. 

Tall Clare - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

We've got income protection cover mostly because the main portion of our income comes from my husband's (self-employed) work - the policy covers me too even though I'm on a PhD stipend rather than a normal wage. It's through Vitality, who noted that I climb and that we both spend time in the hills, my husband doing ultra distance stuff. Curiously the only thing the policy excludes is *him* 'mountaineering', nothing about me. Anyway. It pays out a set figure after the first three months, on receipt of proof of income (in this case the previous year's accounts)

Dax H - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I don't have any information to evaluate the probability, but I've only seen one occurrence in 40 years. And it had 0 impact on my earnings, the same with everyone I know apart from someone in agriculture. 

> Doesn't striks me as a large enough risk to justify the premiums. 

Strikes me that you and your peer group have been very lucky then. 

A few more examples, my uncle the most risk averse person ever, parkinsons shut his working life down. 

One of my employees tore the tendons from his right knee in a low speed mtb crash, 4 months off work and back now for a month but on very very light duties. This happened just a few months after splitting with the wife and wiping out his savings in buying a new house, fortunately I covered his full wage. 

Another mate, helical fracture in his leg, 6 months laid up. He did this getting out of bed.

I don't understand anyone not having basic insurance to at least cover the mortgage. You can work all your life and build up a nice nest egg and have it all ripped away in an instant or have some protection for a modest sum of money. 

But it's your choice and I certainly respect that and genuinely hope bad things don't happen to you. 

2
Jon Stewart - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Dax H:

> I don't understand anyone not having basic insurance to at least cover the mortgage. You can work all your life and build up a nice nest egg and have it all ripped away in an instant or have some protection for a modest sum of money. 

But I could cope with being off work with an injury for a few months - the things that would mean I'd have to sell the flat are *very* unlikely and so the insurance isn't worth it.

You can't plan for all the very unlikely things that might happen. I don't have a plan for what I'd do if I suddenly found a million quid on the floor, and I don't have a plan for what I'll do if I get cancer at 45. I'll plan for what's likely to happen with a bit of leeway if it's not quite as anticipated. Que sera sera.

Post edited at 19:25
kermit_uk - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

Thanks for the replies and company suggestions. I will look into them.

 

I have never bothered with any insurance before but I've worked hard to get to the point where I will have a nice house and a pension/nest egg. I figure that could be all lost if i need any prolonged time off work. Also I don't want to burden any family members which I undoubtedly would should i get an illness or condition where I cannot work. Sadly I know enough people who have been unable to work to know it is unlikely but likely enough.

Jimbocz - on 13 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

Be careful if you are self employed / freelance / contractor.  Not all products sold will suit your needs but that won't stop people selling it to you.

kermit_uk - on 13 Mar 2018
In reply to Jimbocz:

Thanks for heads up. Standard job here. So just the mountaineering/climbing causing a sticking point.

rocksol - on 13 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

Usually the only things you can't get insurance for are solo climbing and cave diving and some also exclude caving

TobyA on 13 Mar 2018
In reply to kermit_uk:

I asked a rather similar question not so long ago. Some of the replies might be helpful: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/life_insurance_and_climbing-677385#x8710330

kermit_uk - on 13 Mar 2018
In reply to TobyA:

Thanks Toby. Problem is to be honest when I answer it is basically a yes to everything. I boulder, sport, trad, winter, solo, climb alone, climb abroad climb multi pitch etc etc.

I've asked summit for a quote but if not I might just dumb it down and accept they wont pay out if i hurt myself while soloing. 

I'm then still covered most of the time and for any illness or disease.


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