UKC

Need to buy a new phone and I'm not much of a tech buff.

I've had iphones for quite a few years now, and don't normally bother with the latest one. I think my current one is a 6.

Android is much more prevalent than when I last bought a new handset and seems to be much better value for money.

Is it any good? Is it worth it?

How different is it from an iphone? Basically I use my phone for a few apps, email, internet etc. 

Can I plug an android into my desktop mac for synching and stuff?

Any thoughts?

Thank you  

In reply to ClimberEd:

You will find this very helpful

youtube.com/watch?v=SAK8-T4Uow0&

In reply to ClimberEd:

I had an iPhone for 6 years and then got a android one. Not much in it really. I mean I guess I like I don't get badgered about my iCloud password all the time but that's about it. Otherwise the iPhone worked well. And so does my android one, a Google Pixel. 

Edit: just to say my partner has an iPhone 8 and the camera is super impressive if that sorta thing bothers you. I can't use it anymore as I'm used to mine. But it does take better pictures in low light conditions. 

Oh actually I do also like that my phone doesn't constantly bang on about updates which require reboots. It seems to just do it in the background. Least I think so, it seems to update and I don't have to do owt. My iPhone was constantly banging on about these.

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Oh dear. It did make me laugh though.

In reply to snoop6060:

Thank you.

In reply to snoop6060:

You have to reboot your Android phone quite a lot for updates?

May I ask what version of Android you have?

Of all the Android phones I've owned, I don't think I have ever been asked to reboot with updates and my current phone design which is almost 4 years old is on version 8.1.0. it won't get any more updates as it is so old.

The only advice I can offer about an Android phone is to check which version of operating system it has and how often the phone's manufacturer updates the operating system and offers security patches. Most phone makers don't want to update the OS because they would rather you upgrade the phone in order to get the latest OS with reliant security updates. That is their choice and business models. This is the success and weakness of Android. Older OS below version 7, I think have potential security risks. But then so do older apple phones.

If you like tinkering with your phone you could choose an Android. Try and put a short cut to a regularly used PDF file on an apple home screen.

And even though my phone design is 4 years old, it is still powerful enough for my needs. And when I feel the need to update the OS I have the option of choosing a third party operating system, created by enthusiasts where I get further security updates from Android. This process is not for the faint hearted because if you get the process wrong you kill your phone in seconds.

Apple has its strengths and weaknesses but it's no better or worse than a current Android phone. Personally I would only buy a phone created by Google. That way I ensure I get the latest OS and security updates quicker than any other Android phone manufacturer for 3 years after the phone goes on sale.

In reply to The Lemming:

"You have to reboot your Android phone quite a lot for updates?

May I ask what version of Android you have?

Of all the Android phones I've owned, I don't think I have ever been asked to reboot with updates and my current phone design which is almost 4 years old is on version 8.1.0. it won't get any more updates as it is so old."

I think he said completely the opposite.  Android updates seamlessly but the iPhone is a hassle.

In reply to tjdodd:

 

Ahh.i understand now. Never owned an apple phone.

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

That was funny, and so true at the end

In reply to The Lemming:

Aye my android just does it without any notice this or manual messing about. My iPhone would conatantly berate me until I caved in then would spend 20mins in a update cycle which would only work if the phone was plugged in and was not usable whilst it did it. Well annoying. The iCloud password bollocks was more annoying tho. 

Other than that the phone worked fine.

In reply to snoop6060:

Apple seems to have changed this now, you can turn on auto updates and it does it overnight whilst it's on charge anyway, can't remember the last time mine prompted me.

In reply to snoop6060:

Love the Pixel with the fast charge too. Not good for a phone's battery to leave it on charge overnight. Takes 20 minutes in the morning to charge it up enough for the day.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

I've had a OnePlus with fast charge for the last 2 years and I've left it on charge overnight almost every night. Battery still as good as ever. I believe the software simply stops it trying to overcharge when it's full.

In reply to snoop6060:

When did you need to put the iCloud password in? I can’t remember ever having to do that. I remember having to put my iTunes account password in before the times of TouchID but that has (it had...) been standard since the 5s.

In reply to ClimberEd:

Having used both I find android better for my needs. I don't know if it has changed with apple but last time I used one everything was locked away behind an app icon but android has widgits so things like my calender is open full screen all the time without having to find the icon and open it. 

RE updates, I have used Samsung for years now and they seem to update regularly, in fact I have had 3 updates since Christmas.

I find the updates a right pain though, everything on my phone is set to silent with no vibration except phone calls and only text, what's app and email are allowed to display notifications. Often the update messes with this but you don't know until the phone beeps or rumbles at 2am, so you kill that app then another one does it a day or so later. Also it may be a Samsung thing but when it updates the phone won't work until I tell it what network to connect to. Not a big deal but it means I can't leave it to auto update overnight otherwise I might miss a call out  

In reply to ClimberEd:

Just reading about Android Project Treble. It ships with all new phones that started with Oreo 8.1.0. It is supposed to allow phone makers to update future OS updates easier and quicker. This new feature seperates the OS from the drivers that operate stuff like the ARM chips so that these important drivers don't have to be rewritten every time an upgrade is made.

I think it's a way of making ROMs redundant and keeping newer versions of phones up-to-date rather than Android phones with many versions of the OS and potential security risks.

It only ships with phones that started life at 8.1.0 and not phones like mine which upgraded to 8.1.0 over time. Either way my next phone will be made by Google to ensure security and OS updates as quickly as possible.

In reply to john arran:

Yeah, there’s no such thing as overcharge in a Lithium Ion battery, the charging protocol is rather involved and multistage. What is not good for these batteries is staying fully charged or fully depleted for long periods of time, they degrade faster the closer they are to the extremes.

In reply to john arran:

Another reason for buying direct from Google is their customer service. I bought my Nexus 5x in 2015. The battery started to lose its charge after 18 months so I contacted them expecting a tough luck story. I actually got a brand new phone sent to me within 2 days. A year later that battery began to lose charge so I contacted Google again expecting a tough luck story. This time I got a reconditioned phone within 2 days. All this was free of charge.

My current phone battery gets charged every night and is still in tip top condition after I think a year's use. What other manufacturer or phone retailer would give that kind of customer service for a battery?

Remember the fun and games apple pulled with their battery problems and slowing the OS down?

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

It is in fact better for the longevity of the battery to slow charge it over a longer period. My Samsung provides precisely this functionality.

In reply to ClimberEd:

I use both simultaneously - an iPhone supplied for work, and an Android for personal use and have done this for years. On the whole I prefer Android.

If you spend as much (or near enough) on an Android phone as it costs for an iPhone, you will get an amazing device. I've got a Huwaei Mate 20 Pro and it's phenomenal. It's probably spying on me for the Chinese government but its worth it for the superb camera

The problem is when people try to compare a 200 quid Android with a 800 quid iPhone. There's a lot more range and variability in the Android market.

Annoyingly I have a Macbook Pro as a personal laptop and a Windows machine as a work laptop - however I seem to be able to manage with this mix of devices since pretty much all my cloud stuff is Google, I only stream music on Spotify etc so I'm not really too bought into the Apple walled garden.

In reply to ClimberEd:

I've always used Android Galaxies and they suit me fine. I've messed around with other people's iPhones and don't find them at all intuitive but then I would say that because I'm 63 and have learned the Android way of doing things. I know my Galaxy S7 can do everything my son's iPhone can do.

In reply to ClimberEd:

If you're looking at a budget of anything under £400 or so, I would strongly recommend focussing on Nokia's mid-range Android lineup. They're the only manufacturer making good quality phones at a reasonable price and then keeping them reasonably secure with updates.

I've had the original Nokia 6 for a couple of years now and it's still going strong.

In reply to ClimberEd:

This is were you need to be careful. Top end Android phones work as well, or better,as iphones and tend to be a bit cheaper (but it's close)... it comes down to personal preference and what you are used to. If you go down the price range on Android phones you will start to notice the difference in performance with iphones. Saying that, if you're not too bothered about performance, camera quality ect, you can save a load of cash and get a budget Android.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

I'd be careful on the android operating system that ships with their phones if you do anything like banking or paying for stuff with your phone.

Persoanlly I would not use a phone with an Android OS of 7.0 or lower. Personally I'm considering moving beyond 8.1.0 but that would need a physical phone upgrade.

Android's weakness is all the android kit that is older than version 7.0 with potential security weaknesses.

Apple users have similar worries but I'm guessing that the majority of their kit has a modern version of their OS simply because apple controls their hardware better.

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Thats brilliant - love it! 

Certainly solved the issue for me... 

In reply to ClimberEd:

Personally I hate Apple stuff. But I do have to support it at work.

Anyway, that's me - the real answer is that there isn't a right and a wrong, and you should probably just go with the one you like best and ignore the fanboys and haters of either side; they all work, but they do have different feels which suit different people better.

You certainly can synch an android phone with a desktop mac - but it will probably be fiddlier than if you stick to an iphone, Apple like you to use Apple.

You'll get the best value for money from a mid-price Android phone, and should probably avoid the cheaper ones. But if you're after a top-end phone, there is little difference in price or quality between Android and Apple, and the best phone on the market will generally be the top end model of whichever was released most recently - they're in strong competition with each other and can't afford to fall far behind.

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

That's rubbish i'm afraid, especially if its Lithium Polymer or Ion, which it will be

1st choice: do you have a preference for who reads your personal data: apple or google?

2nd choice: do you wish to pay a lot?

If the answer to (1) is don't have much of a preference and (2) is "no" then the answer is android.

If the answer to (2) is "yes", then the choice is informed by asking the question, "what sort of fanboy am I"?

If the answer to (1) is "I care a lot about both and can be bothered": the answer is "android, root the phone and don't use any apps" or a 2nd hand symbian or dumb phone.

In reply to The Lemming:

Did you mean to reply to someone else? I didn't recommend an android brand.

Had a quick look at argos budgets anyway... sub £100 phones mostly come with 8.0, just a couple of really cheap ones ship with 7.0.

In reply to ClimberEd:

Thanks for all the helpful info everyone. I will digest and make some decisions!

In reply to ClimberEd:

Android every time. Last but one phone was a google nexus 4 - lasted 5 years and still going as a "spare" if I need it. Eventually treated myself to a Moto G5s from John Lewis - change from 200 quid and 2 year warranty. Looks like it's replaced with a G6 now, I'd buy one again if it came to it. 

In reply to Rigid Raider:

But can it get the Rockfax App!!!!???

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I'm pretty sure it doesn't do a Lithium Ion battery much good to be sat at 100% charge for extended periods.

https://www.popsci.com/charge-batteries-right#page-4

In reply to Luke90:

I've a Motorola g5, and like the version before that enough to buy again. It costs £150 had the same spec as the top Samsung for £800 and the lass in Carphone warehouse could only tell me the difference was the Samsung had a metal case. I have a Samsung for work and find the Samsung software far more annoying than the motorola, though they used to be Google, which may explain it. Would consider a G6 or Google phone next.

In reply to ClimberEd:

If you've got a mac surely an iPhone is the way to go? Part of the beauty of it is the way Apple devices play so well with other Apple devices. Little things perhaps - but I update a playlist in my phone, it updates everywhere. I make a note on my phone, it updates everywhere. I change a file on my iPad... you get the picture.

In reply to ianstevens:

Accept that mine don't!  

(don't ask me why.)

It drives me bonkers. My calendars don't synch. My notes don't synch. Nothing 'effing seems to synch.

In reply to ClimberEd:

Eugh, very annoying! That sort of thing drives me round the bend.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Yeah, Motorola still make good quality low-to-midrange phones. Where they fall down compared to Nokia is that they're not as good about keeping up with the monthly security updates. How much that matters to you depends on how paranoid you are about such things. Lots of people get away with running old software and only a few get burned by it. It's probably not a huge risk but I like to know I'm covered to the greatest extent possible.

In reply to gravy:

Now this is not really a fair question. Apple and Google are in no way in the same league when it comes to snooping on your data. 

One company has a business model founded on advertising - massive collections of data are their thing and have been a core of their business since the day they were created. They give away their services for free precisely because the data that people put in to them is what they’re interested in. 

One company makes its money by selling high end hardware and software. It doesn’t sell advertising services, doesn’t give its stuff away (other than value add stuff to accompany paid services) and is involved in a long running, high level battle with multiple governments and law enforcement bodies fighting for its right to not be able to snoop on it’s customers even if it wanted to. 

Pretending that they’re remotely the same over this issue is nonsense. 

Seriously, put ‘google privacy lawsuit’ and ‘Apple privacy lawsuit’ in to google(ha) and compare the results you get back. 

In reply to ClimberEd:

My own phone is an iPhone (currently a 7, I've had a 3s, 4s, 5 and 6 over the years). My work phone is android. I hate the work phone and simply use it for work phone calls and emails, it doesn't help that half the functionality is disabled, but that isn't android's fault. I think a large part of it is what you are used to.

My wife was an android user for many years, but got an iPhone on a whim and hated it for a good twelve months, fast forward to time to replace the phone and she got another iPhone, having got used it it, she preferred it to android.

In reply to ClimberEd:

Does anybody know which Android phone companies keep on top of updates and security updates?

Edit

It would seem that OnePlus phones are in second position after Google.

That's good to know

In reply to The Lemming:

Or Nokia, if you fancy having the option to spend less than half a grand on a phone!

In reply to mullermn:

That's not really it either. Using Android (which is paid for) and using googles free services are two different things. And of course you can have an apple phone and use google services as well, and I suspect a lot of people do.

Privacy comes down to what apps you use and if you bother to set your privacy controls. 

In reply to Mike Stretford:

The point you make is valid, but there’s still a relevant difference between the two ecosystems. 

Really - do the two google searches I suggested and tell me that the differences come down to app choice. 

Also, Android is free, or atleast Google think so! https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3036163/google-we-may-have-to-sto...

In reply to mullermn:

First link I got

"(Reuters) - Google has been accused in a lawsuit of illegally tracking the movements of millions of iPhone and Android phone users even when they use a privacy setting to prevent it."

Should have been clearer on that. It's free to the OEM but to the phone buyer it's part of the device they are buying and the OEM has made that version specifically for that phone (thus adding value). It's not comparable to googles free service anyone with an internet connection can access for 'free'.

To make the point again, you can use an Android phone without sharing any information with google, and can use an Iphone and share everything with them.

The excellent encryption used on apple devices is another thing, it's great if your phone gets nicked and there's sensitive data on it, but it won't stop you sharing data with google if you decide to use their services.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Well, I’m not an Android user so if it’s possible to completely strip out any dependency on Google services (App Store? Updates?) and still use Android then fair enough. I will grant that it’s easier for a techie Android user to implement controls of their choosing on their device since it’s a more open platform - but anyone capable of doing that is unlikely to be asking a question like the OPs. 

What I do know is when there’s privacy related news that features the two companies it’s generally Apple butting heads with law enforcement for not providing data and Google getting their wrist slapped for doing something they shouldn’t have been, and as I said if you consider the business model of the two companies this isn’t that surprising.

Here’s a relatively recent paper on Google’s data collection practices which was quite interesting. https://digitalcontentnext.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DCN-Google-Data-C...

”Android is a key enabler of data collection for Google, with over 2 billion monthly active users worldwide.9 While the Android OS is used by Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) around the world, it is tightly connected with Google’s ecosystem through Google Play Services. Android helps Google collect personal user information (e.g. name, mobile phone number, birthdate, zip code, and in many cases, credit card number), activity on the mobile phone (e.g. apps used, websites visited), and location coordinates. In the background, Android frequently sends Google user location and device- related information, such as apps usage, crash reports, device configuration, backups, and various device-related identifiers.

“

In reply to mullermn:

If you want to download apps you can sign into Play with a one off anonymous email account and never use it again. You can then download alternative browsers, maps apps, ect. If you don't use a google as a search engine or use it incognito, they'll have nothing on you. 

You're confusing 2 different things here, as I pointed out in my last post.

You can turn that off. Word search 'iOS' in that doc and you'll see that using an Apple device does not protect you from google collect info, that's down to how you use the device.

Comparing apple and google just isn't valid, they do different things, as you say. Android does encourage users to use google services, and gathers huge amounts of data, as most people go with it.... but you don't have to.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

I'm an Android user but I think your argument is getting a bit ridiculous. Yes, somebody using Google services on an iPhone can be giving as much or more data to Google as somebody on Android but that doesn't mean mullermn's original point is wrong.

Apple don't amass user data as a fundamental part of their business model whereas Google do. The flexibility and openness of Android means that you could go to extraordinary lengths to shut Google out but it would be a huge effort and it would cripple many features of the phone.

Your argument is the equivalent of describing a Prius as a sporty car because it's theoretically possible to rip out the engine and replace it with a V8.

Out of the box, an iPhone won't send very much data to Google by default and if you felt like cutting it down further, you could quite easily switch the search engine to something other than Google. Yes, you might choose to install some Google apps but that would be a conscious choice.

Out of the box, an Android phone will send a lot of data to Google by default, stopping that would be very difficult and many core features of the phone will encourage you to send even more. Often, that's in exchange for useful free or cheap services and is a trade-off I'm personally willing to make, but I'm not in denial about it.

In reply to Luke90:

It really wouldn't, you give the permissions during setup. Installing other apps is a piece of p*ss. I don't know you why you people are getting so excited about this.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Because I don't think your argument makes much sense and getting het up over trivia is what the internet was made for!

I'm not denying that you can restrict the data an Android sends to Google or that you can make an iPhone send them a lot. I'm saying that comparing the default state of both phones is also relevant.

In reply to Luke90:

I think you might be forgetting the set-up, like me you use the services and so you rush through agreeing.

Both my parents, in their 70s, did pay attention and didn't want google accounts or any activity monitoring, and still got their phones working.

In reply to Luke90: The main reason I have been arguing this out* is because there is obviously some confusion from the FBI-Apple case, and concerns over online privacy and data collection. It does look Apple users are being lulled into a false sense of security by this. 

It's browsing habits that determine how much data you share, not your hardware.

*And it's a slow afternoon.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

You can't even install apps from the Play Store without a Google Account. Being able to easily install software is one of the fundamental identifying features of a smartphone! That's a very limited definition of "working". Yes there are workarounds for app installation but they're all varying degrees of faff and/or security risk.

Google has quite deliberately engineered a situation where it's technically possible to use Android without sending them data but so awkward and limited that barely anybody does it. That's most of the reason why they poured so much money into developing the platform in the first place.

Data collection and monetisation is the foundation of Google's business. Apple are increasingly pivoting to make superior privacy one of their key selling points.

In reply to Luke90:

It's easy peasy lemon squesy..... if you are bothered. Create an anonymous google account (2mins) dowload your apps, don't use the account. People don't not do it because it's hard, it's because they are not bothered. 

Google don't give phone's away! Phones are sold by Samsung, Sony ect with android, you then get the choice what you sign up to or into. 

They can't stop the sort of data sharing we are talking about without severely limiting what you can do and what apps you can install, and they don't. The encryption case was about something else.

In reply to mullermn:

Apple make it impossible to see inside their closed source system so we only have their word for it. You can open source Android - so I see it as "one the one hand you know google is invading your privacy and on the other you only have apple's word for it that they aren't (and they would say that wouldn't they)".

You shouldn't naively believe that Apple and the FBI don't have a back door -- all that legal stuff was just smoke and mirrors. If you want to protect your privacy you need strong open source encryption and you won't get that from Apple.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Yes, that would be the faff I was referring to. What's the meaning of "anonymous" here anyway? You've created an account and logged in to the Play Store with it so now they're starting to build a profile of the person using that account and selling adverts based on that profile. Even if you never use that account for anything else except the Play Store, Google are still getting value from tracking it. That's not necessarily a problem but it's hard to avoid.

No, they don't give phones away, but they did give Android away. Google are not a phone company, they are an advertising company. Advertising is their core business and the reason they're dominating the advertising sector is the data collection and targeting they can do.

The fact remains that if you have a desire to minimise the data you send to Google, it would be vastly easier to achieve that on an iPhone. There's just no getting around that. Yes, you will have to avoid a lot of useful apps but you won't have to disable key parts of the phone's functionality.

I haven't referred to the encryption case at all.

In reply to gravy:

I agree with you about the value of open source but it's only one part of the story. The business model of the companies involved is also relevant. Apple have far less incentive to mine their customers' data because that's not the way they make money and being caught doing it would actually cost them money. On the other hand, Google's core business is the mining of data in order to sell advertising.

Plus, most of the software that ships on a modern Android phone isn't actually open source anyway. Only the AOSP core is actually open source, most of the interesting stuff is closed source these days. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-contro...

In reply to Luke90:

Can we at least all agree that mining of data by either Apple (unknown extent and possibly not major) or Google (plenty but in return for free use of many of the best apps available) is nowhere near as immoral as that by Facebook, who offer very average software in return, which is only successful because they've muscled or bought out all competitors over at least a decade, and who seem happy to sell data to anyone willing to pay, regardless of to what that data will be used for?

In reply to john arran:

I'll certainly second you on that one.

In reply to ClimberEd:

I've had the Moto g6 plus for a year now was £240 now less than £200. Some people seem to be saying "cheap" phones are rubbish. Can anyone tell me what more l could do with an £800 phone that I can't do with this one, apart form less regular android updates?

In reply to mountain.martin:

As with anything else, you'll get diminishing returns for each extra chunk of money you spend but the primary benefits of a more expensive phone would be:

- Faster processor and more memory so that every little operation happens faster and smoother. Particularly relevant when multitasking and switching between apps a lot.

- Better camera.

I say this as someone who always buys phones at a similar mid-range price point and then keeps them for years. The expensive flagships may not offer entirely different features to the cheap phones I buy but I don't delude myself that I'm not making compromises.

In reply to Luke90:

Thanks Luke. I really don't see any problems with speed for what I use my phone for (I don't game), and really happy with the camera for Facebook pics etc, so doesn't look like I'd gain much by spending more.

In reply to Luke90:

No. If you don's use that account for anything there's no value in it, that's how googles model works, if you don't use it they can't build any profile.

And you'd only do that if you were really keen. It's even easier to stop the sort of tracking that your choice of OS might lead to, even if you use your regular account.

Just type 'stop google gathering data' into a search engine and follow the simple instructions. A few minutes at the most.

Anyone who considers that a faff will be sharing much more information online through sloppy browsing habbits and app installation. I consider earning £200 a faff, if I can save that on a phone and spend a couple of minutes setting the phone up as I want, I will. Horses for courses, obviously.

Of course, but it's easy to avoid if you want to. Major manufacturers would not use android if it wasn't, 

That's just wrong, especially the last claim. Very easy to minimise on android, and you get all the functionality. The only thing you will miss is suggestion popping up in maps and your browser when you start typing. Yes, it's harder to completely eliminate any data send, but if you're worried about that you're going to have to be very careful about how you use any device.