UKC

I climb and walk with a group of friends that is a pretty even mix of male and female. My partner knows them all and we've been out socially as a couple with them on several occasions. She's said that she enjoys going out with them and everyone seems to get on.
She has a massive problem with me walking or climbing with any of the females of the group on my own, i do try to avoid this but sometimes i just can't, for example I've arranged to climb with a two or three of the group and all but the female member have pulled out for various reasons at the last minute.
I always try to involve her by asking her to come walking and i always ask her to come out when we go for a drink or a meal. we've just had words again about this and the upshot is that she doesn't think males and females can just be friends. I really don't know how to solve this, has anyone else had this problem ?

In reply to broady:

Try this book;

Overcoming Jealousy (Overcoming Common Problems): Amazon.co ...

Cognitive behaviour therapy based book from a series recommended within the NHS.

In reply to broady:

I haven't had the problem, but I've seen it in others.

I'm no expert but here goes I'll try. I think jealousy is a powerful emotion that it's very hard to get out of the grip of.

You said you don't know how to solve it. If it was Mrs Abseil I'd have a 2-pronged approach, [1] reassure her (in different ways) of how secure our love is, and [2] never go out alone with a female and make sure she knew it. I know you said number [2] can't be avoided, but that's the second half of my solution - and as I said you're up against a very powerful emotion.

Wish you lots of luck.

In reply to broady: Whenever I have been single, I have had a lot of of female friends. Whenever I have been in a relationship, I have had less (currently none - I am married). I guess that is just how it works?

In reply to abseil:

I do try to reassure her, everything else in the relationship is great. We spend lots of quality time together and have lots of other common interests. When this crops up she get very upset and i spend about an hour talking to her about it, eventually she does calm down and i think that she does realise that her worries are unfounded but the problem is still there. I just can't get her to understand that it is possible to to have females friends only. Today I've suggested that we go and get some counseling, she didn't say no so maybe that will be the way forward.

In reply to broady:

Ditch her. This sort of fourth-form stuff is a deal-breaker and in my experience any "solution" is a sticking plaster. She needs to grow up before attempting another relationship with an adult (I'm assuming you are an adult).

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: That reply made me chuckle, thanks.

In reply to broady:

OK that's more information. Yes maybe that will be the way forward, and again, I'm no expert, and again, wish you the very best of luck and a good outcome.

In reply to broady:

She has an exaggerated jealousy problem, some women have and it can cause trouble even later in your relationship. It can be described as an obsession. It is not healthy. Get rid of her even if she is attractive in other ways.

In reply to broady:

Yes. In my case there was no solution and we split up and this issue was very much at the core of that.

Hope that helps!
(John Cox described it brutally but accurately up there)

To elaborate on this - people are talking about "jealousy" but that jealousy is merely an indication of one or more of the following:

a) she does not trust you
b) she does not trust your female friends
c) she can't bear the thought of you having a nice time if she is not present

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Well they are obviously the issues, although i don't think 'C' applies.
We've been together for years but this problem has only been apparent for the last two. It would be easy to walk away if everything else was as bad but it really isn't, there are no other issues at all. I think it would be unfair not to try and resolve it together.

In reply to broady: You have got a choice: live by her rules, or leave. For me, when I reluctantly ditched my female friends, next up was gay friends, and then friends because they might be gay. It got to the point where I was not allowed to see any friends in her company or without. I left. And that scenario was twenty years in the making.

In reply to broady: This happens - I was in a long term relationship. My then partner decided that she wanted to go travelling to Oz and NZ for six months with one of her male university friends, I wasn't too happy as I thought it would of been better with me but I was unable to go as my studies were still ongoing, but was ultimately happy for her to go travelling. Later on I stated I wanted to do the same after my fixed term contract came to an end (just go on my own though). Her reply was "well i won't be around when you get back". Needless to say that it didn't last.
No real advice there, but good luck. Plenty of fish and all that.

In reply to broady: Just make sure she doesn't find out you are sleeping with some of you walking/climbing partners. Could turn into a real nightmare.

In reply to broady:
>this problem has only been apparent for the last two.

What's changed in the last two years? Has she stopped doing activities that used to keep her busy? Are you spending more time doing this?

In reply to David Alcock:

I have had this too: 'Tony is gay and stalking you' (shortly before i left)

In reply to andic:

But she was right!

In reply to Tony the Blade:

Did you leave to be with Tony

In reply to FiendishMcButton:

he offered me a bed, but no

In reply to broady:

That's a fair reply but I could turn it around a bit and say (well it's a kind of repeat) that though in my case there WERE other issues, all those other issues could in fact be easily traced to this biggie...

In reply to broady:

I would add that we all make the mistake of judging others by our own standards:

by her standards it seems one cannot have friends of the opposite sex without there being a temptation etc.

It is up to you what you make of that and the observation that she started getting funny "suddenly" a couple of years ago.

In reply to andic:

After chatting some more this afternoon it would seen that some of her friends have been making comments along the lines of "don't you mind him spending time with other women" all very unhelpful. I think maybe a word with them is in order. She has always been included in all of the activities i do and i would never say that she wasn't welcome to come along in fact i really wish she would.

In reply to Ava Adore:

Nothing has change in what i'm doing, she actually started a small business about two years ago that she loves doing but means that she is working most weekend. I often help her out but it also means i'm out climbing/walking with friend without her too.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Thank f**K your around to give your tuppence!

In reply to broady:


I feel for you Broady. Been there. It's not nice. This will need a huge amount of work if it is going to go away. I hope for a good outcome for you.



So what happened 2 years ago. Who had the affair? You, her, her pal, her parent? In the case of my ex, she had shagged her way round the county (based on her own account) during a previous relationship and she had it firmly fixed in her head that everyone else was at it too.

In reply to andic:

Yes, it turned out my partner's jealousy escalated because she'd had an affair some years previously if that's what you're tactfully suggesting. A case of: "I can't trust myself - how can I possibly trust you? "

In reply to broady:

I'll be devil's advocate here and say that I think there is an increased likelihood that two people going climbing together (assume opposite sex and straight!) might be more attracted towards each other than would normally be the case. Climbing itself involves some powerful emotions and feelings, then throw in two healthy adults doing something they are both passionate about, "some" close physical contact, and you have a love bomb mixture about to explode. So, yes, I can see why a partner might be a little concerned in general.

You do, however, seem to have done your best to deal with any fears she may have.

In reply to broady:

I think this is more about how she feels about herself than it is about anything else. She isn't free at weekends, when you have your really good and exciting times and she isn't a part of that. Instead, she is part of day to day life and drudgery. It sounds like her own confidence about what she is worth to you has nose dived a bit? Especially seeing as you say that once you talk it through with her (ie, pay her a whole lot of close attention) she actually feels better.

It might be worth making sure that you have a bit of time together, when she isn't upset, so that rather than everything focusing on you and your behaviour, you both have time to talk about her, how she feels about herself, how her confidence is, how she sees her role in your relationship etc.

If she doesn't learn to reassure herself that she is important to you and that you wouldn't want anyone else when you have someone as wonderful as her, then it's just going to gradually get worse and worse.

In reply to broady:

http://www.pathwaytohappiness.com/relationship_jealousy.html

In reply to broady:
guess you may not be over the moon if she told you she was going dancing /salsa etc with various male parteners.
I guess to a point with the walking ,climbing mixed fraternity relationships are frequently formed .
guess she just needs to trust you more ,but can see her point.
maybe just go out with mingers?

In reply to tlm:

Thanks for that we will read that together this evening.

In reply to colina:

I really wouldn't mind if it was something she loved doing and i knew the people she was doing it with.

In reply to broady: I would hate that. I have a lot of female friends and my wife is fine with it, but we've been together 24 years so we're pretty secure. I guess if we'd been together 6 months she wouldn't be so secure, and wouldn't be so happy.

People often ask me if mt wife minds me having female friends which has made me think about it. I think part of the reason she's OK with it is that I'm completely open, so my friends become her friends, their are no secrets and I suppose it's just obvious that I'm happy and not seeking anything elsewhere - this sounds like the way you are, but the response you get it is different to the response I get.

Good luck with it.

In reply to broady:
Not sure if you have had any female replies so far! The post suggests she is more than the "healthy jealous". It is completely unreasonable to expect that you will never have any female friends or hang out with them. You shouldn't avoid going climbing with females as that will set a precedent for the rest of your relationship. I enjoy friendships with males and females and think it makes people much rounder and open minded. It might sound like an odd question but do you purposefully try not to mention you are going out with female friends or if you have been try to avoid talking about your time out etc? Because it is much better to be open and talk a lot about your time out then be quiet about it- it will just make her wonder what you did, who you saw, if you had a good time etc. Just tell her.
Anyway It's clearly an issue for her that you should try to resolve in an understanding way but don't feed into her unhealthy thoughts and don't decide to just stay away from women. Besides if you hang with females it will surely give you more insight into our awesome ways and that can only be a good thing. Just don't start spreading our secrets please.

In reply to broady:

I used to get a bit of this sort of problem, then she started coming out with the club, now she climbs better than me, the cow.

In reply to broady: does your partner have a reason to not trust you? what happened 2 years ago, when this jealousy started?

In reply to Beth-Cath-T:

I always tell her what i'm doing and who with, and i alway give her the choice to join us. The problem reoccured because i told her i was going walking this Saturday, i even told her that i'd chosen the walk so we could call in on her half way round at the function she'll ge at. There are no secrets ever. I have thought that it would be easier to keep quiet but i think that would be worse.

In reply to broady:

Give yourself a break from the outdoor activities. Tell her that you are giving them up because of her feelings. Then spend the next two weeks slobbing around the house in a bad mood. Drink copious amounts of beer, eat nothing but junk food. Refuse to socialise or take part in any activity she wants because," You dont feel up to it". Become sullen, unwashed and a shadow of the man she met.

Basically act like a pre menstrual female and I will guarantee within two weeks she will welcome you going out and resuming your outdoor activities.

Fight fire with fire ..

In reply to redsonja:

No not at all. She started a small business which ment she would have to work some weekend. She sells things on farmers markets.

In reply to broady: it sounds like you are a really good guy. always being honest and open with her. hopefully in time she will realise you are nothing but friends with women you climb/walk with

In reply to broady: I think if you re-wrote this as a female climbing/walking with men and a jealous boyfriend you would get more of the "dump him, he is being unreasonable and controlling" posts.

Unless she is willing to accept that she is being unreasonable and that this is unhealthy behaviour you are doomed. If you stop going walking with your female friends then you are facilitating her unreasonable behaviour, and it will get worse, if you don't she will be a pain.

It may reach the point where she has produced self fulfilling behaviour in that she will become so difficult that you will wish for an easier life with one of the other women, when if she hadn't made such a fuss you wouldn't have.

In reply to broady: oh this is easy - you've been together for ages. She looking for you to step up to the plate.

She needs you to get down on your knee without being kicked in the nads first!

In reply to broady: As a general response to all the thoughts that have already be made, I understand how partners male or female could get concerned if they are being neglected.
What to do? As my current wife and I were chatting about this very topic the other night I think that I could offer some help and support.
Step 1. Get rid of your current partner she sounds a right bunny boiler.
Step 2. Pick the best looking and most healthy female in your walking/climbing group.
Step 3. Having selected your target (new potential partner) hunt her down.
Step 4. Having struck up a physical and very active relationship go at it like rabbits.
Step. 5 While your in this new and exciting relationship maintain contact with all your other female waking/climbing friends,
Step 6. If this new partner has "issues" with you seeing the other females, go back to Step 1.
I hope all this advice helps. I wish someone would helped and given me advice.

In reply to broady:

Thanks for all the replies, most were useful, some weren't and some made me laugh which is always a good thing. We talked about it last night and looked at some of the web sites and books you pointed me to. The upshot is that we are going to seek professional help. We both feel more positive about it this morning.

cheers.

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Nah, it's because you're a minger. ;0)

In reply to broady:

A couple of questions you could ask her:-

What exactly does she think might happen?
Couldn't it happen anywhere else?
If she thinks male/female cannot just be friends does that apply to her self aswell?

Otherwise I'd suggest you BOTH go to Relate couple counselling. Its free but you make a donation! and most are pretty good at getting both of you to see things objectively and work out whats going on inside each other's head, make changes and move on.

My wife is a Relate trained counsellor and I make no bones about it if she wasn't we'd have been divorced many times over the years!!

In reply to Dave Perry:

From the relate website:

"You will normally be expected to pay a fee. Relate Centres are charities and don't aim to make a profit from the services they provide, the fee is to cover the cost of sessions. Some Relate Centres offer subsidised counselling sessions.
Some Relate Counsellors work under license in private practice and set their own fees.
Your Relate Centre or counsellor will let you know the costs of services."

This local page says it is £40 per hour:

http://www.relatesouthessex.co.uk/info.php

Also - they use a rather old fashioned and passive method of counselling, asking you questions and using active listening, rather than using any of the more active methods such as CBT. I found it completely maddening:

Me, at the end, having decided to actually just break up: "So, counsellor, what did you think about our situation?"
Counsellor: "Why is it important to you to have my opinion?"

In reply to Dave Perry:

Is that because she's trained not to give her opinion?

Jealousy is a shite toxic emotion, I have never seen a relationship survive long term where one of the parties has jealous tendencies, at best they limp along as the non jealous partner has to doff their cap to others controlling insecurities (i.e. not seeing female friends, not going to certain social events). Way back I was in a relationship with a women who was insanely jealous and it led to our break up, obviously these traits were not apparent at first but over time they became more pronounced. Subconsciously I ended up adjusting my social circle to accommodate her insecurities (and to avoid arguments), turning down various invites when I knew certain women were going to be there and so forth. It got to the daft point where I would lie as to who I had been out with down the pub, not because I had anything to hide, but because I just could be arsed with the 50 questions I would get if she got wind of me being in the company of another women, even if that women happens to be the wife of my mate who I have known for years, and my mate is there as well. Of course she promised to change and deal with her insecurities whenever we were close to breaking up before, but she never did. When we eventually did break up I had that horrible realisation that I had treated some friends appallingly and had to put in a lot of leg work to get things back on an even keel. From that point on any signs of jealousy that I saw in the early stages of a new relationship I would treat as red flag and ran for the hills. Life is too short to be dealing with shite like that.

In reply to mgco3:

An inspired solution.

Make sure you start crying when you watch X Factor together.

You will be back out there in no time.

In reply to broady:

Dose she see it as ridiculous jealousy, or does she seem to think she has grounds for it? I think there's a big difference if she thinks it's justified, or if she's admitting to feeling an emotion, but recognises that it is not fair or justified.

In reply to tlm:
Fair enough Tim, not all counsellors are equal - some are better than others. I don't know what my wife would have said to your final question.

But you might wonder it it would have made any difference if she'd said something along the lines of, "Oh, I think if you work at it it'll be alright in the end...." ?

In reply to Jim Fraser:
Jim, I can assure you my wife does, and will, give her opinion on matters even when I do not want her too. And I assume it works both ways too. I'll go and ask her now...................

In reply to Dave Perry:


The counsellor was a bloke and we had already split up by then. I guess at the time (which is quite a long time ago now) I had pretty good insights into what wasn't right, but I was just thinking my own head around and around in circles and thought that maybe a third party would have something to help jolt my thinking out of its rut. But they just didn't work like that. They might have been good at getting people who didn't think to think, but I was thinking too much!

But hey - I worked things out for myself in the end. I'm just not sure that the style of that particular counsellor was right for me, although I'm sure other people might think they were great....

In reply to broady:I had this problem once, only way to solve this is to tell her you love her with all your heart but if she cannot come to terms with the fact that you have female friends with whom you only climb with then maybe she should either begin climbing with you or the relationship should end...............

In reply to broady:

That's the problem then.... allowing your partner to have female friends.

In reply to mrdigitaljedi:

My ex started climbing - and was more than welcome to do so, and made decent go of it - BUT she was doing it for entirely the wrong reasons. She was doing it because she was jealous and terrified that I would run off with some non-specific female climbing friend, and wanted to be along to "keep an eye on everyone". So I'd be careful with this sort of thing.

In reply to broady:
I am very lucky in that all my man's pals are guys but when i met him two of his group of friends were lassies who were incidentally very attractive but have now returned to Slovakia(hurrah!).When i met the first one we met up as a group in a nightclub and when we went for a girlie chat in the loos she called me a bitch but with a smile on her face.She had a boyfriend but it turns out she had her eye on my man.The other lassie was something else!My man was DJing a Ragga jungle DnB night in the Soundhaus and she actually dumped her BF just prior to this event so she could hit on my man before i arrived.I knew nothing of this but my man took a while to pick up on what she was doing but when he did he stopped his set and dedicated Your love by Biggie to his 'wee Glesga stunner'. I seen her storm out past me crying and didn't know why til later.
He let me climb with loads of other guys but he knew none of them were as good looking as he was because i told him.
I must admit i would have a problem if he was going climbing(which he can't do to save himself)with fit lassies.I mean as someone further up said it is very intimate being on a ledge with someone,in usually very romantic settings and developing the bond you get with your climbing partner.I have had guys want to climb with me because they fancied me which would come out in their comments on the trip.I wouldn't be comfortable with my guy doing this even though he let me.Perhaps i have a little insecurity,perhaps it is because he is 12 years younger than me,i don't know.I have never had the dirty done on me by any previous BF's and have never done that to any of them,but guys as well as some lassies are more prone to act out any temptation i think.

In reply to Gudrun: Christ, how insanely attractive is your other half that he has women crying because they can't have him?!

In reply to rasmanisar:

They knew each other before i met and he is a very attractive big hunk!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

This all sounds a bit stereotypical - male in proximity to female with pulse, = high possibility of sex, male in proximity to 'attractive' female with pulse = guaranteed certainty of sex!

Of course this presumes that all said 'females in proximity to 'male', find 'male' sexually attractive?

If only us guys could get laid that easily

In reply to broady:

Sorry but basically i am with your GF on this one.

She is right and knows the game,good for her i say!

In reply to Gudrun:
Oh and PS. you can have all the frickin relate councillers ypu want but it doesn't change a thing!

A goat sure has some plus sides.

Personally, I think if you don't have trust your relationship is worthless.

In reply to needvert:
I have strong trust with my man because we have the 'real' love,but i know how devious some (a lot) of lassies are.

In reply to Gudrun: But if you trust him, surely he will say 'no', no matter how much other girls try to hit on him?! He knows right from wrong, and if you trust him to do the right thing then who cares who he is with?
Most of my friends are guys, my husband has absolutely no issue with this. I climb regularly with other guys, he's pleased for me that I am getting out climbing. He climbs too, but our days off rarely match up. He doesn't often climb with other girls, as there aren't many girls in our circle of climbing friends, but I have no issue with him climbing with girls if the situation arises. We are adults, we know right from wrong, and we trust each other to do the right thing. I can't imagine being in a relationship where the gender of friends mattered.

In reply to Gudrun:

I don't know about that! I have climbed with a lot of blokes over the years and not found it romantic in the least, even though they were excellent mates. I also would have no problem at all with my husband climbing with women and many of his friends are attractive women.

I've built up bonds with climbing partners, but they are ones of trust, shared experience and friendship. You would never find it romantic unless you secretly fancied them in the first place (any blokes suddenly felt romantic towards another bloke, just cos they climbed together????!!)

In reply to girlymonkey:

For me, it isn't just that I trust Duncan. I know he just doesn't want to go off with any other women, never mind the rights or wrongs of it. He just loves me and the same vice versa - I just don't even think about other men in that way.

In reply to broady:


I think it may be these 'friends' who are jealous of your previously stable relationship; maybe they cannot trust their own partners. Friends like that we can do without.

In reply to broady:

Are there any women where you work? From what I've seen men and women who work together are more likely to end up taking things further than climbing or walking partners. Would your other half expect you not to go to work or change jobs because an attractive woman started working with you?

In reply to Blue Straggler: the problem only last a few months as i got fed up of the constant jelousy so i ended it, we parted on good terms but she regretted it as her new bloke promptly dumped her for a co-worker....