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Kayaking. What do I need?

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J1234 24 Jun 2007
It strikes me that the perfect other hobby for climbers is kayaking. When its dry climb, when it`s wet kayak.
So what do I need, a boat obviously, how about this one http://www.kayaksandpaddles.co.uk/canoe/kayak/uk/shop/productpages/dagger-kayaks/dagger-g-force.htm

a paddle
a life jacket
wet or dry suit which?
a helmet

what else do I need.
can you do it on your own or is it best to be in a group?
Is there guides like climbing guides.
Is it more or less dangerous than climbing.
Is it best to buy new or is seconhand an option unlike climbing.
Cheers Beds
 climbin_chris 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234: i would imagine doimg kayaking on your own would be a bit dangerous due to the whole aspect of drowning, or geting carried away by a current ect. Sounds like a good hobby though!
 woolsack 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234: Go on a white water course somewhere. All the right equipment is provided, good instruction, good rivers and the best introduction to get you totally hooked.

You can probably try different boats and decide whats right for you.

The only dangerous bit with kayaks is breathing the water. It depends at what level you end up paddling as with climbing as to how you manage your risk
 igrieveuk 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:

If you have never paddled before I would not recommend the G-Force to start with. You can demo boats from some retailers to get a feel for the boat. so get in as many as possible.

I would also suggest you at least get into a kayak club in your area, to learn the basics or you can do courses but of course that would cost much more.

3 is the magic number for kayaking, one gets in trouble, one stays and help other one goes and gets help. It does depend what kind of kayaking you had on mind to assess the risk to yourself i.e I would be quite happy to paddle on the coast in decent weather by myself, but river paddling you should really be in a group for the added saftey a group can bring.

Is it more dangerous than climbing? Having been a kayaker first then climbing I personaly would say that climbing has a higher risk for injury but I would imagine some climbers would say the opposite if their main activity is climbing.

Second hand is a great way to get started with gear in kayaking, only thing I would recommend getting new is possibly a helmet.

If you want further information and advice I strongly suggest visiting the forum at http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/.





























































































 igrieveuk 24 Jun 2007
In reply to igrieveuk:

oops, sorry for big space in the post, my enter button keeps sticking.
 graemecook 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:

don't know what the rivers are like down your way, or if there are many active kayakers, but if it's an option i'd recommend joining a club.

That'd allow you to borrow some gear, a boat, a paddle, etc. and see whether you like the sport

As previously mentioned, the boat you like the look of probably isn't the best for someone just starting out, but it depends on what you want to do and are willing to put up with. you might swim alot at the start but once your braces and rolls and things get better the dagger would probably be great

i'd try it in whatever kind of boat you can get your hands on and see what you like then, if you like a particular aspect of kayaking, get a boat designed for that.

Being in a club with pool sessions is also handy for learning strokes and techniques in a safe environment.

I definately wouldn't recommend buying the gear and launching yourself solo down a length of whitewater, best go with experienced folk and they can teach you how to read the river so that you can run it in relative safety, and rescue you when things go wrong.

There are kayaking guidebooks to tell you about the rapids on particular rivers, but these are a bit more like winter route guides than summer rock route guides, in the respect that river conditions change all the time and the guides tell what the rapids are like under 'average' runnable conditions.

>Is it more or less dangerous than climbing?

It depend how hard you push it,
J1234 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:
Hi,
thanks for the replies, i`m going to try and go to this in the next week or 2 http://www.burrs.org.uk/bcu_course.htm at £10 you cannot be robbed.
One more question, would it be feasible to set of from Grasmere and paddle down river via Rydal and Windermere to the sea maybe wild camping at an island on Windermere.
Cheers Beds
ukminch 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:
Is the pacemaker waterproof?? Just a bit worried if i was in the water at the same time as you I might get electrocuted!! On a more serious note talk to Graham and go and fill one of his courses at college!!

Rob
 martin riddell 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:

as has been stated best to join a club to learn the basics - look up the British Canoe Union if in England (os Scottisg Canoe Association if there)

a good club will have boats/paddles/decks/bouyancy aids to lend/hire out

second hand gear is fine for canoeing

once you have learnt the basics it is up to you - solo paddling is like solo climbing - each at their own levels and mindfull of risks

and it can even become depressing when travelling about the country looking for enough water to paddle a decent river - even in Scotland !!!!

canoeing is a great sport though
J1234 24 Jun 2007
In reply to ukminch:
No worries with the pacemaker, i went nhs not private so it`s clockwork not electric.
Does barth do courses, i`ll ring him.
cheers beds
 pheonix 24 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234: Hey pheonix here.
I love to paddle as you say it is somethings to do when climbing is rained off.
Unless you are sure you wanna keep paddling get a second hand boat and bear in mind if you are going to be in it for a while style and colours look impressive but your paddling will be dire if you are not comfy and are getting cramps.
A throw line is a good investment, as not only can you throw it to a mate in trouble, but hey you can tie your damn boat on with it too.
if i were you i would go for the wetsuit option as it will not act as a huge airbag if you capsize with even the smallest amount of air in it. if you are worried about getting wet and thus cold buy a cheap dry crag and believe me a dry crag is worth its weight in gold, when it is windy and you are wet.
Anyway if you are ever up in middlesbough bring your boat and go to the barrage, may even see you there!

pheonix out!
 Little Brew 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234: Having spent more time paddling than climbing recently! i can say it is a top sport.

DONT GET A G-FORCE!!! my cousin has one and hates it!!!! it is crap for anything but BIG white Water.

i currently have a Wavesport X, and that is a great started boat, as is the Perception Supersonic/sonic. check out e-bay, second hand boats always on there, just look ot for a none too damaged one and your fine.

ALWAYS IN A GROUP! never on your own, if you get stuck no one to help ou out. i tend to paddle flat stuff in pairs and bigger stuff in 3-4, safety in numbers you see.

you can get some guides, and UK rivers guide book has many online for free. also has a second hand sale section.

paddle, boyency aid, boat, helmet and i only wear a spray cag, depends what time of year you want to paddle. i wear a shortie wetsuit on cold summer days, and need a dry suit for winter time.

oh and check out the bcu website for clubs near you.

Jess.x
 Mystery Toad 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:

Moisture and Vessel Assist.
 victorclimber 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234: a Kayak !!!!!!!
 graeme jackson 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:
1. Join a club.
2. don't buy any kit till you've received some instruction and have decided that it's what you really want to do.
3. Join a club.
4. Did I mention Join a club? Never paddle alone. You will die if you do.
4. join a club.
Nick B not logged on 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234: If you have never kayaked, or done very little, which appears the case from your post, I would recommend doing a course. You can do 1, 2 and 3 *'s at Hollinworth Lake, which is not too far from you, once you have your 2* you can go on river trips with them. They are cheap compared to the commercial operators (owned and run by Rochdale Council) and I thought they were pretty good.

 martin riddell 25 Jun 2007
In reply to graeme jackson:
> (In reply to bedspring)
> 1.
> 4. Did I mention Join a club? Never paddle alone. You will die if you do.

Really - so far I have managed to defy this .......

As said previously - solo paddling is like solo climbing - each to their own

 Jenny C 25 Jun 2007
JOIN A LOCAL CLUB
This will give you the chance to beg/borrow/hire all your basic equipment whilst you decide if the sport is for you. Also most clubs will have instructors who can teach/coach you.

On rivers you ideally need about 3-8 people, so you can move efficiently but also provide support to others. On lakes (and surprisingly the sea) it is common for people to go out alone, but I certainly wouldn't advise it for a newby.
This is another advantage of joining a club as they will probably organise trips (for all levels of ability), so finding people to paddle with shouldn't be an issue.

As for buying kit don't rush into it, speak to other people and see what they use. The kayak it self is a very personal choice and will depend on what style of paddling you do, your own size/weight and of course your budget.
Buying a top spec white water boat for a newby would be silly. A beginners boat (such as the "classic" Perception Dancer) is actually more versatile and will also be easier to paddle, especially when you are still learning.
aw_j 25 Jun 2007
In reply to all:
Does anyone know of an organisation who do kayaking 'taster sessions' in the Lake District, preferably on Coniston Water?

My wife is keen to give it a go on holiday this year and I don't paddle myself. Might start if she gets the bug however, since I can't seem to convince her to climb .

Will search the web of course but I was hoping for a personal recommendation. Cheers!

J1234 25 Jun 2007
In reply to victorclimber:
> (In reply to bedspring) a Kayak !!!!!!!

What are you trying to say?
 woodsy 25 Jun 2007
In reply to aw_j:
I'm often in that area of the Lakes & it may be feasible to bring some boats & run a taster for you.
Let me know if its of interest
Woodsy
 woodsy 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:
Don't ask me - it may double the time I have to spend with a boring old ba**ard if you get into kayaking as well -I can only just cope with climbing you on an occasional basis. God knows how your family cope with you -its a wonder no-ones thought to switch the thing off whilst you are asleep!
Love
Woodsy
xxx
 graeme jackson 25 Jun 2007
In reply to martin riddell:
> (In reply to graeme jackson)
> [...]
>
> Really - so far I have managed to defy this .......
>
Isn't it difficult running a shuttle by yourself?

I wouldn't fancy running rivers like the findhorn , orchy or etive by myself even if I could get from one end to the other with no outside help.
One bad capsize, lose your boat (i know, you have a bombproof roll - don't we all), bash your head - no-one to effect a rescue. you're toast mate.
 woolsack 25 Jun 2007
In reply to graeme jackson:
> (In reply to martin riddell)
> [...]
> Isn't it difficult running a shuttle by yourself?
>
> I wouldn't fancy running rivers like the findhorn , orchy or etive by myself even if I could get from one end to the other with no outside help.
> One bad capsize, lose your boat (i know, you have a bombproof roll - don't we all), bash your head - no-one to effect a rescue. you're toast mate.

Its soloing to a tee then
aw_j 25 Jun 2007
In reply to woodsy:
Cheers, will drop you a mail.
charcoalmike 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234: you might try Abbeydale road in Sheffield at the moment: it is in spate ! sorry.
 martin riddell 25 Jun 2007
In reply to graeme jackson:
> (In reply to martin riddell)

> I wouldn't fancy running rivers like the findhorn , orchy or etive by myself even if I could get from one end to the other with no outside help.

Solo paddling is like solo climbing - you know the risks
Logistically the shuttle is made easy by use of a bike

Findhorn - apart from Randolphs (is that what its called ?)do not recall much on it (may be hazy there though)
Orchy - only one bit of difficulty and you can chicken chute or portage that
Etive - point boat and fall over waterfall - no skill level required

Bomb proof roll - rolling is the last resort if your support strokes are up to scratch........

Used to regularly paddle the Tay on my own (when could not get mates to go out), as well as surrounding rivers

Main thing is to enjoy it - was just making the point that people do paddle rivers on their own and survive
J1234 25 Jun 2007
In reply to woodsy:
We`ll review that response when i`m belaying you tomorrow night.
Love and xxxx Ugly
Rosie A 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:

Brilliant idea! I want to do it too. In fact I'm going to the Nottingham watersports centre to find out about courses.
Rosie A 25 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:

And woodsy's not ugly at all. ;¬)
 martin riddell 25 Jun 2007
In reply to Rosie A:
> (In reply to bedspring)
>
> Brilliant idea! I want to do it too. In fact I'm going to the Nottingham watersports centre to find out about courses.

If you are going to the watersports centre at Nottingham then also take a large cork with you - for when you get a dose of the Trent Trotts
J1234 25 Jun 2007
In reply to Rosie A:
> (In reply to bedspring)
>
> And woodsy's not ugly at all. ;¬)

It was signed Ugly not calling him Ugly but i`ll tell him you fancy him, he`ll like that
 woodsy 26 Jun 2007
In reply to J1234:
I would arrange to take you kayaking but you would just pretend we had made arrangements for a different day & it was Mrs Bedsprings night out again...so I'll just stick with reliable people who actually might srtick to arrangements!!!
ukminch 30 Jun 2007
In reply to Rosie A:
> (In reply to bedspring)
>
> And woodsy's not ugly at all. ;¬)

And Rosie's obviously not blind at all!!!!!!!!!!!

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