UKC

An uncharacteristically optimistic article from George Monbiot. The consequences of this could be so far-reaching but perhaps they are exactly what the world economy needs in order to shake itself into climate action, but  I would probably consider re-purposing my business though if I was a farmer.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/08/lab-grown-food-destro...

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

I've always wondered if Vegans would have any issues with lab grown food.   Stem cell cultures grown into bio-scaffolds to form meat.

I'd be interested to know the objections . 

TWS

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

Sounds too good to be true but occasionally too good to be true turns out to be true. 

The biggest downside though will be the loss of the humble hot dog, without the lips and arse holes to grind up I can't see the hot dog retaining its taste. 

In reply to Dax H:

I see an opportunity to expand into the black market food stuff sales.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

So patent holders will control all the food in the world. What could possibly go wrong? After all, a free market outcome is always going to be best for the population in general <cough>

In reply to Andy Hardy:

He does have a big section on patents making this point. I share your scepticism though that what is the ideal of someone like Tim Berners-Lee, might not pan out when it comes to the bottom line here for companies making big investmnents.

Another point is that we have so far not been very enthusiastic adopters of GM food so trying to convince people to eat 100% lab-created food may be a hard sell to the consumer even if there are no grounds for concern over its safety.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

Have you seen the amount of disposable plastic ware used to grow cells in a lab environment? There would need to be some wholesale changes to tissue culture techniques to make it more environmentally friendly

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

The luddite in me dismisses this as enviro-gruel but considering the apocalyptic state of the planet, I'm prepared to chow down on some primitive life and take one for the team. Bring it on!

In reply to the sheep:

It really does depend on the purpose though. Plastic ware is rife in labs as it’s easy to confirm it’s not contaminated - ie you use new every time and they’re all sterilised. This would be less of an issue when using containers for the same purpose each time, as they would be with food, and where contamination is less of an issue, as they would be with food. In short, you could use glass/something else reusable like current mass producers of food do.

In reply to Chive Talkin\':

I know of a couple who are vegans, and one of them  is pretty chilled at the idea, and his partner doesn't quite like, I gather because right at the start of the process there'll be cells from animals involved. 

In reply to Timmd:

My thoughts exactly, but surely the process shouldn't have to be painful.

I understand they can transform skin cells back into stem cells from what I've read somewhere.

In reply to Timmd:

A bit of a short-sighted argument though if you think about it. The ultimate prize is an end to intensive farming and a return to much greater bio-diversity. Donating a few cells from a cow to help generate a synthetic steak seems a small price to pay. Of course the option to remain a vegan wrt synthetic meat would be fine but to reject the whole concept (if that is what this person is doing) because animals may be harmed by going to this path is a bit of an upside-down argument.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax: I think she has an emotional reaction against it, from wanting nothing to do with animal husbandry regarding food etc. A bigger picture approach regarding biodiversity and all other aspects makes the most sense to me as well. 

It could almost be said that being vegan has gone from being seen as 'crazy committed fringe' eating to 'admirably ethical', though, I have an uncomfortable sense (as a liker of meat) that global events could prove vegans to be right all along. 

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

I’ll wait 20-30 years after it becomes popular to see what the side effects are of trying to replace what we’ve been eating for millennia with ultra processed lab outputs. 

In reply to Chive Talkin\':

I've never been vegan but I haven't eaten meat for several decades, and I wouldn't have a problem at all conceptually with lab-meat. My main reluctance would be due to having grown averse to the idea of eating fleshy food and not seeing much of a reason to start again once it no longer comes from once-living animals.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

I am amazed at Monbiot's enthusiasm for this 'solution' when last week it was simply - cut meat consumption.

And further scpetical of lab food. historically we have excelled at producing protiens and calories - carbs fats, but crap at producing and organising the plethora of micro-nutrients ( minerals vitamins enzymes ) which make the macros viable. Evolutioniary adaptation of animals and their food sources has taken millenia to perfect - and - if the labs crack this in the space of a decade I will fall off my chair ! 

In reply to john arran:

Thanks for the reply . I don't know any vegans to ask so was genuinely interested in the moral/ ethical arguments against it .

In reply to ianstevens:

I worked in microbiology and pathology in the 70s and used mainly glassware, we were continually washing up, running autoclaves and oven for sterilization etc, Disposable plastics changed everything. However I'd imagine autoclaving large glass or metal containers for industrial production wouldn't be too much of a problem, in fact probably somewhat similar to existing food and drink manufacture.

In reply to Chive Talkin\':

My wife and I are both vegan and we'd happily eat it. I can imagine some might have issues with it but if you're happy being vegan not eating lab-meat then please continue, it's more important that meat-eaters are happy to eat it and thereby reduce meat consumption.

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

I'd prefer we all are a lot less actual real meat and the original, chewy, sinewy, fatty real stuff was around and available to enjoy. I have this horrible feeling lab grown would equal protein slabs of boringly homogeneous flavour and consistency akin to a particularly dull fillet steak.

In reply to betabunch:

Yes indeed.

In reply to Timmd:

Long pig ethically made starting from donated cells from willing vegans.  If they donated blood too, you could make ethical vegan black pudding.

I’m sure people that go on to be the self-appointed patronising, moralising (in their view) subset of vocal activists of veganism will find some other way of annoying the rest of us come lab grown meat.

In reply to wintertree:

Careful about judging those you haven't met (or even those you have ?)  

In reply to Timmd:

I’ve no problem reaching quick judgements.   I just have to remind myself to keep an open mind about reevaluating them over time...

In reply to wintertree: That's fair.  

In reply to Dax H:

We will get really tasty hot dogs from all the humans we need to sacrifice to bring the world population down to a sensible level.  Mmmmmm