UKC

So I haven’t handled lockdown particularly well. Some days have been ok, others I’ve totally lost the plot. I had to ask Alan to ban me from the forums the other week because I was just writing insane things, and making my headspace worse in subsequent self-hatred frustration yada yada. 

Anyway, the light at the end of the tunnel may be in sight (maybe). But here’s the weird thing - although part of me wants to get out and climb more than anything, part of me also feels overwhelmed by the thought of doing it. A trip down to Portland to sport climb seems utterly daunting. Trad climbing feels overwhelmingly complicated and intimidating, and basically beyond contemplation.

I’ve hated lockdown, but it feels like the world has receded to the small confines of my flat, the 10km radius I go for a run, and the Big Sainsbury’s - and now I feel like I almost don’t *want* to go anywhere else or do anything else. Doing things again feels...scary.

I imagine this isn’t that unusual or psychologically surprising. Anyone else having weird and/or unexpected lockdown experiences?

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I had felt my life was "running away" a bit with me having committed to too much, e.g. runs of no free weekends lasting a couple of months and it was in a way welcome to have the "pause button" pressed (much as I'd rather do that without a load of people dying).

So yeah, I am finding "restarting" and having to decide what to do about it a bit intimidating

In reply to Paul Sagar:

It sounds a little bit like feeling institutionalised? There's similar 'quirks' involved in getting to grips with taking more responsibility for life and getting back into work after long spells of being out of work due to mental health by the way. It's not an unusual or unexpected response I wouldn't have thought. 

Now that I'm writing this, my Mum found it weird when she came out of hospital after being in for a long while, when my Dad said 'Okay, I'll drop you off and meet you at John Lewis's, I'm off to park', and zoomed off and she was left to deal with the busyness of the city centre once again.

You'll be fine once you do it.

In reply to Paul Sagar:When lockdown came about i thought what the hell am i going to do for pastimes,so i just run and train with weights, now in the 7th week, i dont feel motivated to go climbing,i can take it or leave it.I think whats going on is ive got into a rut like most people do, im sure when this is all this is over il get my climbing motivation back,but for now im happy doing as mentioned. 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

It does seem like going out is going to be very strange.  

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Exactly this feeling has been coming over me more over the last week or two.  I'm a relatively happy little Hamster spinning my wheel at home, and the idea that I may have to go back out into the wide world for whatever reason seems scary.  The thought of reengaging with all the stuff I used to do makes me feel a bit overwhelmed.

I've particularly had it on the drive to lockdown school to drop the kids of in the morning.  At first the roads were deserted and now they are much busier and I just want it all to be quiet again, there are just so many people everywhere! I don't know how I used to cope as I know it's only a fraction of what it used to be.

Very strange times.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Don't worry Paul - just tell yourself that, compared to drilling holes in the Barn walls, trad climbing will be a doddle

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Yes today i was saying I feel anxious about climbing again. 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Hi Paul, I did not realise things were this hard for you, I know you have posted before about some “mental issues” but I have no insight or experience in these aspects of life.

HOWEVER!

If you do feel the need to get yourself banned from posting, I have at least one trigger word that will get you automatically banned without having to bother the moderators (if that is a concern). PM me if interested.... 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I totally share a lot of your feelings. Been at home working for 8 weeks now. Next three weeks I'm furloughed. I've self institutionalised. I get anxious when I go shopping. The garden has had too much attention and wants me to leave it alone. The local walks are boring the f*ck out of me. I've identified 72 species of wildflowers and I'm bored of looking for more. I'm bored of being with my kids and they are bored of me. All that's left is a few DIY projects around the house. And guess what, they seem really boring.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I'd be surprised if you didn't feel a bit nervous about going outside again, we are afterall going out into the unknown, which might just be enough to kill us.

You've been out a lot more than I have but I have family in the house, so it's not really been a chore, yes I'd like to be out with my mates, down the pub, and climbing, but it's not been a massive issue.

My fear is we're heading into a disaster waiting to happen, late lockdown and early out of it, does ring true for me, especially with our poor testing system.

Being jittery is a normal reaction, I'd say.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Same here. I live on my own in a very small concrete box. I walked into Morrisons on Easter Monday, having finally started to run out of various things for the first time since the lockdown started, and very nearly ran away because it was too bright, too loud, and too full of confusing ... stuff. It's scary how small the world gets, and how quickly it does it.

Have a <*hug*> from me.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I don’t think I’ve had it as bad as you but I’ve been really struggling with lockdown the last couple of weeks I’ve been trying desperately to not get involved in the more controversial threads having made that mistake earlier on and realising that sometimes being happy is better than being right. 
 

however my temper and nerves are shot completely I came close to having a row with a stranger while queing outside the super market because he was 1.9m behind me. 
on one hand all I want to do is go outside and go cragging with my mates(note want not think i should) but at the same time the discussion of easing lockdown has left me more anxious than ever. 
 

hang on in there everyone things will get better one way or the other and we’ll be climbing again without a care in the world!!

In reply to Paul Sagar:

The forum: I was accumulating similar responses - took a 7 day break to remind myself how little I matter to any of it. Ironically a lot of topics which generate the most heat are just speculative in their impact - ie. no change at gov level how ever much we attempt to fight

But going outside ? I'm ready ! We're (family) 90% sure to have had the virus and it was no big deal. I'm in regular contact with an 80yr old woman who was tested confirmed, now smiling after 10 days winter flu, no big deal, and thats the way it is for approx 98%. Noting more to be nervous about than all those other life risks - driving a car, operating a chainsaw, or indeed climbing. Let's do it !

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Why do you think trad climbing in particular seems such a big thing? Surely you'll just do a few easy routes first and it will be fine?

I'm looking forward to going out climbing when we can, particularly to seeing my climbing mates, but oddly, there is nothing stressful about it at all.

I was talking to a friend in South London yesterday. At the start of, or just before, the lockdown, when there were the big shortages in the shops, he said London felt very edgy - not nice at all, and it felt like the potential for violence wasn't far away. I remember it left me with an uneasy feeling about how different it seemed from here. Now he says it is like living in a big village - everyone is really friendly, he goes for bike ride everyday admiring the blossom, has perfected making margaritas etc. He and his partner have tried to help out their neighbours who are both ICU nurses and had been working up to 80 hour weeks by doing shopping for them and such. But now the NHS heroes keeping bringing my friend and his partner flowers and goodies, because kind firms and people keep giving them to the hospital so there is more than the staff need/can eat. So Ed said it seemed ridiculous but lovely that the nurse-neighbours were saying thanks to him for helping them out by doing the odd bit of shopping!

In reply to pasbury:

You're the man to ask then - is this an orchid? My best bet with help of an identification app was a heath-spotted orchid, but I'm really bad at wild flowers.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I'm wondering if 'getting back out there' might all be a bit of a disappointment/anticlimax?

Being holed-up in the Ariege has been fine, the walks got a teeny bit boring but it least we have been out everyday, there is nobody about, the shops have been fully stocked and I have got a heap of work done.

Not sure getting back to 'normal' is going to be 100% positive,

Chris

In reply to TobyA:

Looks more like Spanish bluebell to me.

In reply to LeeWood:

Except you're not sure you've had it, you're not sure we can't get it more than once.

You don't need to be nervous about it, but you need to respect it, and not give it to someone else. Also, you have no idea of any lasting issues this virus leaves people with. No one does!

So let's keep it in proportion, yes, but let's not pretend it's a walk in the park, we don't know yet.

My mate runs a couple of car homes, an 92 year old woman had it and survived, he thought he had it; all the symptoms were there, but he tested negative (twice).

One of his staff, a lazy woman said she thought she had it, when he said she'd have to stay off work for 14 days, she decided it was something else. He said she couldn't come back anyhow now before getting tested. Turns out she did have it and ended up in ICU, she was 32 years old!

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Okay! I had been led to believe that Spanish bluebells looked much more like 'our' bluebells but just less droopy. It crazy blue conditions round me currently! My camera roll is currently overloaded with snaps of bluebells, my bike surrounded by bluebells, my children and bluebells etc. Perhaps they are always this nice and this year I've just got a daily chance to go out and see them blooming.

In reply to TobyA:

I think trad just feels way more daunting because I haven’t placed gear since October now - clipped a lot of bolts since then, but when I last climbed the day before lockdown the C19 situation meant I really didn’t enjoy it because it felt irresponsible and also the world was imploding. Guess that isn’t helping me feel confident about a restart. 

In reply to TobyA:

I could be wrong but I'm just going on the radial symmetry (unlike orchids) and the blue anthers (unlike English bluebells).  They do look quite robust though.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I don't want to make light of your particular situation, but these past few weeks have left me wondering about whether the general experience might give hints about how I/everyone else will cope with retirement. Being able to get out at all definitely makes a difference, and just finding little things to consider an 'achievement' for the day seems to help give purpose and structure. I have pretty much achieved nothing on a scale measured against the efforts of others, but I'm still pretty chipper, for the most part, and I wonder if ultimately that counts for quite a lot

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Definitly not an orchid and probably a bluebell, not sure I could tell the native bluebell from the Spanish  near relative on a single photo

In reply to Doug:

There's a photo of a native bluebell in my photo gallery on here including an albino one, the native bluebells have drooping heads.

In reply to krikoman: I dunno why your post about being careful and the 32 year old lady in ICU got 2 dislikes?

There's some weird ones who read these forums, it could seem...

In reply to Timmd:

either because people don't like me ( I have no idea why ) or maybe they don't like posts that don't suit their thinking.

I tend not to look.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Just to interrupt this radio broadcast: the term 'Stockholm Syndrome' which you have used in the subject of this post refers to the situation in which hostages develop a bond with their captors - so it's not really appropriate here.

To your general comments: it'll turn out all right in the end. Just get out and do things again when we are finally allowed to. And always remember that it's supposed to be fun.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

What I was getting at is that I resent lockdown but sort of am scared of leaving it - I don’t want it to continue but then weirdly part of me does. So not a million miles from Stockholm Syndrome. 

In reply to Rob Parsons:

I understand what he meant.  

In reply to Paul Sagar:

I'm not going to be able to re-engage fully with my pass times for a long while if the businesses which support them survive but I am looking forward to a bit of relative normality, bbq's with friends that sort of thing. That said, my lockdown has been easy, My family seem safe so far, I have company, paid work, a garden, time to work through my job list before my baby arrives to further disrupt summer... I got it easy and I'm very very grateful, I know lots don't. 

Ease yourself back into it when you can and if it's still all feeling weird and wrong do have a chat with your GP.

Jk

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Just to interrupt your interruption to this radio broadcast: it may be that the term 'Stockholm Syndrome' is not appropriate anywhere.  Least of all in Stockholm, in the notorious case in which it was originally 'identified'.

If you're interested, here's a Twitter thread with an excerpt from a book describing the 'origin story' of the term.  (A version of events that makes the original 'diagnosis' look a bit dodgy to say the least.)

https://twitter.com/jessradio/status/1252579349187817473

Here's an article about a different case: https://www.businessinsider.com/stockholm-syndrome-could-be-a-myth-2013-10

This, I think, is the academic paper they mention.  (It's paywalled though.) https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0447.2007.01112.x

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Ah okay - got it.

In reply to deepsoup:

Thanks for that - I always suspected something like this might be true. Kind of like Munchausen-by-Proxy and 'split personality syndrome'. Stuff that fires the salacious public imagination, but is sketchy in terms of genuine evidence it really exists.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

The thing I've been getting most anxious about is starting work again. Even after a couple of weeks holiday, I lose the 'flow' of my job (optometrist) and it takes me a morning to get the autopilot/multitask modules of my brain up and running. When I get back, it's going to be completely mental and the job will be a lot harder done in PPE with SD processes in the practice, but I'll have far more to get through and will have to get creative. I am not looking forward to it.

Thankfully, I have now gone back in to do (mainly) phone consultations which at least is getting me thinking about clinical/professional stuff again so that those brain regions won't have completely atrophied. 

Personality-wise I am actually kind of built for lockdown. I'm a total introvert and have no worries amusing myself for weeks on end with youtube and of course UKC. (It obviously helps that I can access the hills from home too). I do obviously post the odd nobhead thing* (I do at normal times) because I've got out of bed the wrong way and then feel bad about it. But hey - spending your mental life obsessing about what others think of you, when you'll never know, is just a waste of time. You could spend that time absorbed in music or drama or learning something, or texting your mates instead. Or if you've got proper hobbies that you can do at home (I haven't) that's even better.

As for climbing - I've kind of lost interest a bit tbh. It'll be nice to go out and do fun/easy stuff, but I've been gradually getting off the training/trying hard/improving treadmill over the past few years anyway and have come to terms with the fact that my best climbing is behind me and I am a total punter. Meh.

*I'm not talking about attacking Coel Hellier's obnoxious politics, that's called 100% called for, and he loves it.

Some good advice from the German Psychiatrists.

https://twitter.com/nulasuchet/status/1258649154475130880

In reply to Jon Stewart:

If you'll indulge my curiosity, how does one optometrise over the phone? 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

You'll be all good! I haven't placed gear since a trip late August/early September. Just start easy on a route you know to steady the nerves and it will come back soon enough.

I think it will take many of us a while to shake the nagging voice asking if we really should be doing this right now. ;p

In reply to nufkin:

"I'm a paramedic and I've broken my glasses"

"Were you seeing OK in them before you broke them"

"Yes"

"We'll make you a duplicate pair and send them out to you"

"Thank you, that's really kind"

"No problem. Now get out that window and start banging kitchenware in my honour"

"I'm not sure about that, actually"

"Well do you want some glasses or not?"

In reply to deepsoup:

Fascinating.  Thanks for that.  

In reply to Paul Sagar:

First, let me say I have very, very great sympathy for the predicament you find yourself in, and how the world seems to you. We have to accept this as a completely genuine plight. I also accept that my partner and I are among the luckiest ones, in being retired, reasonably well-off, and living in a beautiful place. Plus she has a beautiful garden, so there isn't the frustration of not being able to get out, at least that far. There's a side of me that actually enjoys the new extreme simplicity of life now. Yes, we're driven back on ourselves, but also on the small things and perhaps most important things. As someone else has said - I think Dave Garnett - I find myself looking at beautiful flowers in the evening sun with a new kind of intensity. But I'm also very fortunate in having a big book project to work on. At first I couldn't concentrate at all, but over the last week to ten days it's been going quite well and is taking my mind off this great horror. Because that's the word for it, to come back to your original point: I may be comfortable and reasonably contented within myself, but there is always a background feeling of depression, knowing just how much people are suffering and worrying just over the horizon, as it were. A silent, horrible, ever-present menacing truth. There's also the worry: just how long is it going to take for us to get out of this life-destroying plague? There's a lot of futile, foolish optimism, I think. I prefer to be quite pessimistic, and if it all suddenly goes away and life returns to how it was, then great, we'll have a big celebration then. (PS. I'm not one of those enamoured with street parties and historical "celebrations" at the moment.)

In reply to Paul Sagar:

It's a perfectly natural reaction to the recent circumstances that you and most of us are experiencing. I had to start back work this week after 6 weeks furlough and it did seem unusual the day before but now it's back to normal but with all the anti-covid measures in place.

I'm sure you will be back doing trad to your usual standard in no time when it's safe to do so. 

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Thanks for that! Alas, I finished my new book by week 3 of lockdown, did the reviews to a big paper, read the things on my to-read list...

Which makes me realise: when lockdown is over I can slack on research to a preposterous degree - and at that point I’ll probably be grateful I was locked up for a while!

In reply to TobyA:

Definitely not an orchid. Orchids (in principal) have only one plane of symmetry in their flowers. They are zygomorphic. 

Plus thIs just looks like a bluebell, and probably not a hyacynthoides non-scripta. The flower heads drop over. The Spanish (garden variety) don’t droop so much. Hybrids could be anywhere in between. 

Habitat is everything for this flower.

In reply to pasbury:

I love the random expertise that come out on this forum! 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Well I’m certainly no expert!

But increasing my knowledge of botany is one positive thing I’ve dragged out of this lockdown. However I do now spend most of my walks examining the ground, hedgerows and walls rather than looking at the views.

In reply to pasbury:

Thank you! It just looks so different from the "classic" (?) bluebells where the stems droop over and you have a few flowers coming off the stems. Like these below. I've seen orchids before, both in the UK and in Finland when I lived there - and always found it really exciting, so was obviously just over excited here - although like you say this is different from what I think of as your bog standard (but still lovely) bluebells that the woods are full of currently.