UKC

Hi there, I saw a UKC post from Nov 2020 making reference to Covid and muscles: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/starting_out/can_covid_affect_the_muscles...

...but not much feedback on that thread. 

My mate had Covid 2 months ago. Avid cyclist. Mild symptoms. Mid-40s. Says he's struggling to return to form and thinks he might even have muscle wastage. In particular, he's read some scary stuff on myocarditis. It goes without saying it's a b*ast*rd of a disease and complications can be many and various, but I said I'd ask on UKC to see if anybody has any experience or pearls of wisdom about returning to form post-Covid. 

Cheers,

K

I have no pearls of wisdom, however this podcast by Adam Meakins may be of interest to you both.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/09VN0nDqT5IC3UCU7JHQRR?si=kVeLr6u4S5W_-Tyt...

My colleague had Covid last March (13 months ago)... really bad symptoms and is still not right.

At one stage myocarditis was suggested as he was experiencing chest pains, and then angina, but all further investigation was negative and, thankfully, he's been told his heart is fine. The chest pain may be his lungs still recovering, but who really knows? Scans do far look fine.

Similarly, my brother is still unable to run 13 months on. Waves of exhaustion every few weeks, some pain in his oesophagus.

So, two people, no end in sight, or just very slow almost imperceptible improvement in that neither are as ill as they were 12 months ago. Both mid-40s.

I have long Covid. It has been eleven months now. There seems to be different varieties of it but these have been my experiences.

I had mild symptoms initially. Fatigue was the most obvious. I am in my mid fifties and I was pretty fit. I climbed and walked regularly and was used to doing 200km - 400km audaxes on my bike.

I expected, like we all do, to recover but as the weeks went by, I didn't. This was new to me. I had never really been ill before. Not like this. 

The fatigue just continued. To an observer, it would be invisible but I felt deeply tired. I managed to negotiate part-time work with my employer. An arrangement that lasted until Christmas. I had an overwhelming urge to sleep every afternoon, or as my wife would put it, whenever there was washing up to do. 

My lungs burnt. I had strange tingling sensations in my limbs occasionally. At my worst, I could only walk slowly for a mile. It felt like I had aged twenty years. 

After Xmas, I made more of a recovery. I have been back out on my bike and have climbed hills. But I have also relapsed. I cannot do what I used to do. Last month I cycled three days in a row, 50km each day, which would gave been no problem at all beforehand but now meant I took to my bed again and rested. 

My advice to your friend is the same that was given to me and it is difficult to take and act upon it, when, like most of us here, we prefer to be fit and active. 

That was, 'Pace yourself, take it easy, rest when you can, you will recover.' 

I hope your friend gets better. It may take a long time. 

Thanks for the replies - and good luck with your own recoveries. I'll send this thread to my friend. All very sobering.

I'm only 32 and not recovered after 2 months. I felt back to 100% for a week and maybe tried to slip in to my old active routine a little too quickly. Been bed bound for the last 8 days with shocking headaches, fatigue and shortness of breath.

This is the second time I've had Covid too, the first time was pretty mild and I recovered quickly but this second crack at it has been terrible! 

I think I'm not gonna rush back to being too active this time and maybe just water the plants and read a few books instead ha. Chomping at the bit to get back out there and au it but it's not worth it !

That sounds familiar. I certainly tried to get back into a normal work routine far too quickly and then regressed badly. Not had the energy to do any physical exercise, even walking round the supermarket is exhausting.

Currently at 3 months, fatigue, breathlessness and brain fog are main symptoms. Didn't have noticeable breathing difficulties, or any trace of a cough with the initial infection.

Advice I've had is that most people are ok after 6 weeks, but at 3 months you should contact GP to rule out non-covid health issues. It's also at three months where long covid would potentially be diagnosed.

The fatigue and brain fog symptoms sound so like ME/CFS - I suspect a significant proportion of long-Covid is either ME/CFS or very similar (maybe different mechanisms but same outcomes).

From my experience of people with ME/CFS (both wife & daughter suffered for many years & plenty of other people I've therefore come into contact with), one of the "causes" that helps make it chronic is doing too much too soon. This tends to especially occur with people who are always busy, busy, busy and like to get everything done yesterday. IMO "last minute" people are less likely to get this because although they may start from the same place, they're less likely to keep on pushing when they don't feel 100% through what they think is the recovery phase and end up overdoing it and relapsing.

I'm generalising of course, but I think it's a factor.

I had suspected COVID in March 2020, I returned to a busy work and study diary after a week off and just pushed through. Come June I was sofa bound for 3 weeks, completely broken! I ended up diagnosed with Fibromylagia in August but I still suspect long COVID / ME...I had a good January, Feb and early March but been lifeless, headachey and fatigued since mid March, perhaps a result of trying to get fit and active again in the New Year

I'm due my vaccine this Friday and I've heard that it can ease some long COVID symptoms, so fingers crossed..

A part of me suspects it doesn't make much difference whether it's ME/CFS/Fibro or Long COVID, the treatment of rest and slowly increasing activity levels will stay the same, coupled with a lack of appropriate healthcare services 

That sounds quite annoying (to put it mildly), I guess the thing to hold onto is that you have made some progress. Hopefully in another 11 months you'll see how much further you've come.

The 'eco hippies' among my facebook friends might suggest looking into things which can aid the immune system...

Edit: Fair enough, about being eco hippies...

That sounds very familiar. I think I underestimated just how ill I was and in trying to reassure those around me that I wasn't on deaths door, played down the severity of the fatigue by saying I was tired.

I don't know if I've had long/covid or not, because I tested negative, but have since been told that timing of the test might play a part. If my losing my sense of taste was covid related, I was poorly for 2 and a half months, feeling washed out and virally, and doing my uni work while fuggy headed. I paced myself, until I lost patience and cycled to pick something up from some local shops, and walked back again feeling tired, and woke up feeling fresher the next day (it may have been mind over matter, or the increased blood flow and oxygen, or a mixture). 

Aiming at being gently active enough to stay happier while still resting relatively speaking might be most helpful for general wellbeing, with mind health and physical health being related.  

Very true - Fibromylagia is another one that's in the ME/CFS area. They're all just labels for sets of symptoms (of which you may have a partial or complete collection) and nobody yet really knows what's going on with any of them (ME/CFS, fibro & long-Covid).

The lack of appropriate healthcare services is partly because nobody really knows what's going on.

Hopefully, the huge numbers of long Covid sufferers will increase the research and investigation in this area and significant progress will be made with all of them.

Oesophagus pain has a fair chance of being caused by reflux, be the root cause COVID or not.  Might be worth asking the quack for some PPIs.  You can buy them over the counter (Nexium or one of the Gaviscon sub brands) if you want to try them first.

Interesting stuff kicking about regarding neuro-transmitter levels, or lack of as a factor with fibro. Which then ties in with many people getting ill after a period of emotional / physical stress...

I was referred to the pain clinic back in August, where I was informed that under normal circumstances there's a 12 month waiting list. However, the clinic had been suspended in March 2020, so it's anybody's guess when I'll get seen!! 

My partner wrote this piece for Walkhighlands earlier in the year. It’s a couple of months old now but nothing has changed since then:

https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news/long-covid-a-hillwalkers-experience/
 

Wisdom - not much, unfortunately!

My brother, mid 40s, seems to have developed tinnitus as a consequence of covid. Thankfully, nothing worse, but still not great.

Rather depressing reading, but thankyou for sharing. If Jackie can recommend a specific Facebook support group that would be amazing.

I wish her the very best and am glad that you have jointly found ways to remain active outdoor people. It sounds like you have been incredibly supportive, as a nurse said to me today one of the problems of fatigue is that it's invisible so difficult for those around you to understand.

Thanks Neil, but he's tried all that trust me...the GP is at a loss. It's just a waiting game now to see if recovery happens very slowly and the pain (not constant) recedes or stops returning every few weeks. Along with the tiredness and fuzzy head.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not all bad. He's written a book (not about Covid!) and sent it off to the publisher in that time, so not entirely unproductive! He's also now going for walks and getting into bird watching. Just can't go running or use his rowing machine.

There's a group on Facebok called Long Covid Support Group (I believe).

With respect to the "invisibility", my wife had ME/CFS for 18 years and during that time there were several "well you look ok" type comments to which the response should have been "That's because on the days when I don't look ok you won't see me because I'll be stuck at home. To manage to come out today I've built up a small buffer of energy but this will be totally depleted and I'll be really bad for the next few days when you won't see me but if you did there's no way you'd be saying 'well you look ok'" but of course you haven't really got the energy reserves to be able to waste them going into that kind of long explanation because some idiot says something without thinking.

One of the things that ME/CFS taught us was that disability is very often totally invisible - it's so easy to quickly (mis)judge from appearances.

Hi - the main one she is using is this one (called ‘Long COVID Support Group - there seem to be a few with the same name):

https://m.facebook.com/groups/625349464716052

she was a bit apprehensive about joining at first but there have been a lot of useful things on there.

One more question whilst on the subject. Has anybody had the vaccine whilst suffering the effects of long covid ? Would you advise waiting until feeling a little more together or would you get it ?
 

I did speak to my doctor and they said it would probably be ok but I’d be interested in anyone’s first hand experience. 

I had moderately severe covid for Christmas, I was knocked out for two weeks but with no major respiratory problems. I had marked fatigue for two months, quite different from just feeling tired, more like my 'personal battery' needed replacing as I ran out of juice after a couple of hours. This was getting better then disappeared quite suddenly around the time I had my first vaccination. Could be coincidence of course but the jab (Pfizer) certainly didn't make anything worse.

I still feel a bit weak, unfit and short of puff but without the fatigue. This is improving so not getting dispirited, it could have been much worse.

Evidence starting to emerge that for a not insignificant minority, (20% - 30%) the vaccine eases long COVID symptoms 

As Forest Dump says, Get vaccinated! Bizarrely... many people report it helping long covid

Before I got jabbed (AZ March 2nd) I'd felt for some time like I had a cold - none of the classic covid symptoms. Soon after I was jabbed I started feeling fatigued at work and particularly when I was outside walking. This fatigue is still with me nearly two months later. It's such that I haven't felt up to even a small hill and I've said to my employer I'm cutting my hours. I haven't had any other symptoms - no nausea or headache, just tired. No idea what it is but it did start almost straight after the jab. I've had blood tests, one of which came back as I'm pre-diabetic but I don't think that would make me tired.

Not sure if it is long covid but I came down with it on Xmas day and I am not yet fully recovered. Fatigue, confusion, athsma much much worse.

Fighting hard to get through it all, first long mountain day today. 

Good luck, don't push it too hard!

Both of you definitely sound like long-Covid type fatigue - the Duracell bunny is how you used to be but now you've got the normal crap batteries with no capacity.