UKC

I got a lot of support last year when I talked about mam's diagnosing and treatment for lung / kidney cancer which happily put it in remission.  I had a call on saturday to tell me she'd had a seizure and was in hospital and after a CT scan they've found a lot of nasty stuff in her brain now.  Totally on a different planet when I got to her which the the doctor said was a combination of the tumours but also possibly down to the meds they gave her to stabilize the seizures, steroids they'd given her etc.  She has pneumonia, a lung infection so they were struggling to get her oxygen levels in to the safe zone.  By Sunday she had stabilized but still very confused .  Monday afternoon, sitting up, fine.  Chatting...just ever so slight elements of confusion.

She says she's not been able to read for the past few weeks (which probably means months) because she's started getting double vision. She kept this totally to herself.  She tells is she's not in any pain, yet we see her holding her side and grimacing when she coughs.  I've told her to stop being a stubborn northern cow and to tell the doctors about the pain because the pain meds are free (I've told the staff that she's in pain but hiding it)

They say they cannot address the cancer until the pneumonia is sorted out, as she won't be strong enough

Doctor took us in a side room and discussed "do not resuscitate" options with us (he'd already discussed with her and she was in agreement with him)

So.  Head is mildly bent right now.

I'm asking for any guidance on power of attorney, and how that works.  I think I'm going to need that fairly soon to help with her bank, her housing association etc.  I've never had to deal with it.  

Feeling pretty calm, pragmatic, resigned to it right now.  It's all good.  Family back home is all piling in helping, visiting etc.  a ton of support.

Peace out.

You have my sympathy. My Dad is just waiting on more information about his prostate, where the cancer appears to have returned after three years of remission.

With regard to the Power of Attorney, get it sorted sooner rather than later. My wife and mother in law have PoA for my wife’s aunt, who has dementia. The legal stuff was very straight forward, actually putting things practically in place with the banks was a nightmare.

I’m so sorry to hear about your Mam TC.

Thank you.  she's not in pain (apart from the side), she's very pragmatic and realistic about things.  She's got family breaking their necks to visit her and spend time with her.  It's tricky being this far away (manc to sunderland), but luckily it's not 'that' far.  Work is being really accomodating already, I have flexibility to work from anywhere with wifi.  

Excatly.  Iv'e got a mate at work who is going through the same thing with his dad, who is well down the dementia road so he's having a very hard time with it. 

We're going to catch up today to let me know how he went about it.

So sorry to hear and understand you must be in a difficult head space.

Power of attorney very simple to get - it's all on the gov.uk site and as long as your mum is happy to sign and you can get it witnessed it's straight forward.

Have read a lot of your posts, but can't remember your family situation. If there is any slight suggestion that any relatives may have a problem with any of this, I would suggest you edit and remove your thoughts about some stuff in your first paragraph. You can't choose your family and you don't want issues down the line. Trying to keep this generic so feel free to message if it's too cryptic.

All the best

I am sorry to read this.  From experience, I would say:

- get the Lasting Power of Attorney done ASAP while (and I'm sorry to put it like this) your mother is competent to sign.  You will need a medical professional to sign it.  You don't need to use a solicitor; the forms are long but straightforward enough if you take it carefully.  Shop around if you do use a solicitor - it's a simple enough piece of work.  I see that Which is offering a paid-for online service which may be worth a look: https://whichwills.which.co.uk/power-of-attorney/

- Consider who should be the nominated attorneys; ideally you should have more than one (just in case).  I'm sure it's the case, but make sure you and the other attorney/s do mutually trust each other to do sensible things.  We were advised (by a solicitor) to avoid making complicated arrangements, like any expenditure of more than £X to be signed off by two of the three attorneys, because it could go wrong or more likely cause confusion with the bank or whatever you are dealing with.

- When you get the LPA done it has to be registered with Office of Public Guardian.  Straightforward but may take a few weeks.

- When you get the registered original  ... keep it safe!  You will have to show it to people or send it to people.  A solicitor will do certified copies for a fee, but I found that some agencies would not accept a certified copy which was more than 6 months old.  

- Start registering the LPA with the entities you may need to deal with (bank, housing etc) before you actually need/intend to operate under it, as this process can be tedious with some entities.  Any decent organisation should have a process/dept to handle this.

- If you loose the original (or as in our case, someone else looses) the original then you can get an Office Copy from the OPG for £35.

- I believe that on new LPAs registered in last few years there is an OPG online system which enables you to give a code to a bank or someone that they can use to verify the LPA without needing to show the physical document.  Haven't used it myself.   https://publicguardian.blog.gov.uk/2020/07/17/weve-launched-the-new-use-a-l...

- Check you have the details of all bank accounts, savings accounts etc.  See if you can get a Third Party Mandate on your mum's bank account (with her permission, of course) which enables you to see and use the account on her behalf, pay bills etc.  

Hope this helps, and best wishes.

All of this - having been through it. The online version exists, but relatively few organisations seem to be aware of it/accept it (including Government departments). I'd get some certified copies up-front. The banks etc are a pain when it comes to this.

I got a financial LPA but, in retrospect, should have got the full one. It takes time and these things need to be in place before they are needed. My sympathies for a very difficult situation.

Heartfelt sympathies. SNC’s post is full of useful stuff, I’d only add to be aware that there are two kinds of LPA: property and financial (covered in previous posts) and health and welfare. You want both. Very best wishes.

From memory the health and welfare one LPA has an optional provision for granting power to decide on declining further treatment. I was very relived when my mother didn't give me that responsibility and said "follow medical advice".

If possible* discuss decisions as LPA with two or three trusted close relatives so you are not making decisions in secret. I said ultimately the financial/medical decisions were mine alone which was only an issue once when a couple of my mother's brothers who wanted my mother to move into a different care home. They meant well.

*depends on family dynamics

It's a stressful time for you all. Best wishes.

PS when my mother had dementia my brother googled the top 10 of her youth so they could listen & sing along to music she knew and I got a load of old slides scanned so I could show them on a laptop. She did not always recognise me but she recognised people in photos from 60 years ago! You mother sounds pretty good mentally but particularly the photos on a big laptop screen might bring back happy memories to talk about.

Yep, a very good point, thanks.  We got the property and finance for my mum; we should have got health and welfare as well - the problem was that the form required her to engage with questions that were already too difficult for her to process (eg end of life options IIRC).  So eventually I had to get social services involved to make the determination that she needed to move into care and was not competent to decide for herself.  All in all, a pretty miserable experience.  Sadly, you need to plan and prepare.  

One other point - I'm assuming TC's mum is a pensioner - it's worth checking she is receiving all the benefits she is entitled to.  

she is.  When she had the first diagnosis the Macmillan guys helped her out.  Very thorough.

Sorry to hear

Do PoA *now*.  Both health and finance.  Just use the .gov forms.  Don't pay a solicitor.

It's important because if you don't, you'll end up in a process called deputyship - which is run through the courts with all the cost and delay that entails (think thousands and months).

Most of all cherish your remaining time with her and tell her what it means 

Hey man, really sorry to hear this. Glad you and your mam are in a place to accept it, that’s really good. Nothing useful to add from the power of attorney PoV so I’ll just say all the best in a hard time.

peace out, as you say.

Really sorry to hear about your situation, tough all round but remember to look after yourself too.

Don't worry too much about the DNR, it's guidance for clinicians, not legally binding and if there's a treatable reversible cause it'll be treated.

As others have said, get both sorts of POA arranged .

If you can, have a discussion with your Mum about what she wants: does she want to be at home, hospital or hospice? It's a personal choice thing but for most (if circumstances allow) hospital isn't ideal for end of life care.

If it's not hospital, get end of life meds sorted. My Father in Law died at home after a fairly horrendous final couple of months, the meds gave him a peaceful death with his wife and daughter sat with him holding his hands. Made a huge difference. 

Sorry to hear about your news. In terms of an application for POA, I'm not sure where you're based, but in Scotland there is currently an almost 11 month delay in processing electronic applications. RUK may well be better but I'd recommend getting it logged ASAP. 

Sorry to hear about this turn for the worse, some thoughts...

This very much depends on the situation with the rest of your family, but if everyone believes that you're the one who should be handling your mum's affairs then as well as the official PoA stuff which you need to do, there's also the unofficial way if your mum has online accounts, you basically with her agreement (since she's compos mentis) just use her login. The main advantage is it allows you to deal with urgent/important financial stuff immediately.

Do NOT even think about doing this if there are potential disputes etc in the family - that is not somewhere you want to be.

Other thought is about DNR; we were told:

• That there is a much lower survival rate from resuscitation than most realise, even when done in hospital, our expectations generally having been set by TV & films. Can't remember the figure but survival is less than 50%.
• The survival rate with no consequences/ongoing problems resulting from the resuscitation (ranging from broken ribs to permanent brain damage) and successful discharge from hospital are even lower. IIRC it was something like less than half of those who physically survived resuscitation made it out of hospital.
• Resuscitation is a pretty brutal process.

Sorry to be so blunt but unless you (and your mum) have already agreed on DNR, then you need to check up on all the facts.

I hope the future for you, your mum and all your family is easier than you fear.

Technically you can't just use mums bank logins, even with her consent. 

With my grandmother my Dad and Uncle  were added as signatories because she requested that they took charge of her financial affairs after Grandads death. There was a POA but it was never implemented as she remained mentally capable, but just didn't want to worry or responsibility.

With my other grandmother the POA was used and that certainly made it much easier for Mum. The three NOK were notified, so worth discussing with the family before activating it.

Correct, hence the "unofficial". Technically I shouldn't even use my wife's login on our joint account (although they couldn't explain why we should have separate logins). The banks must know that this kind of thing goes on all the time.

With my Dad there was a "natural" progression; first I'd log on occasionally just to check that everything on the account looked ok, then I'd deal with transactions with his full knowledge, finally I'd deal with transactions without him knowing although him knowing that I was dealing with his finances meant that he didn't get agitated about that.

That's a good idea, how bureaucratic that is to sort out depends (I think) on which bank. My wife did that with her mum but IIRC there were still some restrictions on what she could do with the account.

Any bureaucracy and restrictions are not there to protect the account holder (that's just a side effect), they're primarily there to protect the bank.

All of these things are very dependent on the family situation/relationships. Very important that everyone is ok with whatever actions are taken.

Really sorry to hear this. Other posters have covered POA's. I'd just reiterate to anyone reading this to get one sorted for themselves as early as possible.

From my experience, with hindsight, I wish we had payed more attention to my Aunties ReSPECT form. Although my brother and I had PoA and she had a DNR, not having the ReSPECT form completed fully lead to an extremely stressful day. The form, we subsequently competed it with her GP, is linked to Stichtplate's point about her wishes regarding ongoing care/treatment. We knew my Auntie didn't want to be admitted to hospital, but wanted to be made comfortable at home, but that wasn't clearly written on the form at the time. My other thought on that is although we have the power to act severally, I'm not sure I could have made the decision I did without the agreement and  support of my brother. 

This is a very important point. In my experience, regular and frequent discussions with family is important, in order to establish common ground and to address any points of difference. Doing this early and helps ease the way when things get really difficult. 

Visited last night, took her a clock / CD radio up so she can have a bit of music in the room (tv is still knackered and they're still trying to fix it).  Ward sister tells me that visiting hours don't apply to me as I'm coming from Manc, I can bob in any reasonable sort of time which is really helpful.

She's back to her 'old self' personality now, no signs of any confusion.  Just very knackered, still on oxygen, not very mobile due to her size (she's piled on a lot of timber).

I've asked for a chat to her doctor so that I can either be present when he's seeing her, or to get a call afterwards for an update (I'm not sure whether she has one "over-arching" doctor, or an oncology specialist and another doctor for the lung infection / pneumonia issues.  

Talked about the power of attorney forms and she did get every so slightly teary eyed a bit, because she knows what they're for (she went through the same process with her mum), but is in total agreement that it needs to be done.  

It was just nice to catch up without anyone else, have a tea with her, took her some chocolate fingers in, she sent me out to sainsburies to grab her some bits (there is no greater joy than having to buy your mam a packet of 'big knickers'...thanks for that mam).  told her to make a list of anything else she might need that pops into her head.  Will be seeing her again on saturday.

Then a late night drive back to manc.  I've booked a day off today to have a lie in and then go out for a walk in the hills.

Tomorrows photos will be dedicated to your mum and you and everyone else in a similar situation. I’ll think of you guys each time I press the shutter (thinking about it, this includes me but my mum is kinda ok - leukaemia but she’s doing OK).  

That's very touching.  Thank you.

I hope you and your mum are ok.

Sorry to hear of your situation.

Re POA. Do them online. Don’t print off and do manually. They are straight forward but you have to ensure everyone signs and witnesses in the correct order. It’s easy to get wrong. If submitted incorrectly they will bounce and cost again. The on line version has a check to ensure they are correct before submission.

Best wishes.

Sending you some love TC, take care of yourself.

Sorry to hear about your mum.

We put in for POA with dad but he died before it could be implimented. However we did get a refund on it as he had passed before we recieved it.

It's not "unofficial", it's fraudulent behaviour.

In the case of you and your wife, although you have a joint account, you are separate legal entities. For example, if one of you does something fraudulent whilst logged on, the authorities will want to know who it was. Also, the banks do not know that you and your wife are of good character and will never try to cheat each other in the event of an acrimonious split.

With regards to dealing with an elderly relatives finances it should be very simple to get authorised access to the account while the relative is still fit to authorise it; keeping everything legal, transparent and above board avoids potential issues down the line.

I'm not sure if it was an oversight or new policy, but I never got issued an official physical copy when my mum set up a PoA for herself. But the online code system through gov.uk works well, when it's accepted by organisations one is dealing with. You request an individual code specific to, say, Bank X, let them know what it is when you apply to register your PoA, then they can check it as they process the application. 
I think pretty much every organisation I had PoA dealings with was happy with the online code, which made for much less long-winded applications. The only one that didn't, for reasons that were never clear, was the Land Registry - though that was dealt with via solicitors when selling my mum's house for her, so maybe the third-party nature somehow required the physical copy (which, as above, had to be bought from the OPG)

Here you go. Puffins in flight, Isle of May yesterday. I also saw a minke whale and a small pod of dolphins!  

You can’t have too many puffin photos!

Couple of close ups. The other bird is a razorbill, which has magnificent markings. 

And a common seal chillin.  Hope you and your mum enjoy them. 

Damn pal, no words of advice other than make sure you take the time to look after yourself, your mum and your family need your strength and if you don't keep yourself right you can't look after others. 

If you need a time out at anytime drop off the M62 as your passing Leeds and come and hit some red hot steel for a hour or so, it's very therapeutic. 

Ooof.  I will bear that in mind lad.  

Needless to say I've done some serious miles back and forth between Manc and Sunderland over the past week, and I'm constantly keeping my eyes peeled for the Daxmobile.

I will keep a look out for a strange bloke waving and beeping his horn. 

Great that you and your family are fully involved. You won't regret it. Even there is obviously a lot of emotional intensity, somehow it feels like life is at its best. 

There appears to be a rather grim inevitable outlook described in your post. I feel for you. 

So in terms of the condition I found her in at A&E she's remarkably better.  Chest infection has cleared, a blood clot on the lung is being treated.  Oxygen intake is no longer a concern. She's back to her 'old self', eating  like a horse.

I was alarmed to get a call from her on monday morning saying they were about to discharge her...there's no way (in my opinion) she's ready to go home just yet so chatted to the staff...it turns out she's been less than honest with them about what she can and can't do (a wound from a fall on her leg and some other bits means she can't dress herself, mobility issues mean cleaning herself is a problem) because she is so desperate to get home.  She has told them that she has enough care from the immediate family to look after her which isn't necessarily true (everyone is helping but there's nothing formal in place).  So I've had to be the bad guy and insist on a full Occupation Therapy assessment where they will see what she is capable of, put in place a care package etc.  I totally appreciate that she misses her home environment like hell, but needs to be safe.  We sat down and discussed it with her Macmillan nurse who managed to convince her and put the case for across for a few more days in hospital much better than I could ever have

But she's still a bit miffed with me for interfering.  But I don't care.

Oncologist has done an initial assessment and says she is a candidate for further chemo but she's having a proper catch up with him next week, so need to be back up there for that as well.

I think a visit on friday with a large pork pie might put me back in the good books.

When my mother was in hospital (possibly the same one on Kayll Road) I was also living a few hours away. I used to joke "it's a full time job being elderly" as I had to be super organised and assertive (not aggressive but do not be shy) to speak to nurse in charge of ward, doctor, hospital social workers and council social workers trying to chivvy things along.

I'm feeling the same.  Would never be aggressive...every single member of staff I've encountered since this all started a year or two ago has been a diamond, but this time I've felt like I've had to stand my ground a little bit and press for more details, or to have things clarified, or to have updates.

Yeah, she's on the Kayll road side

I think the only 'shake my head' moment has been with another patient.  Bear in mind she's on a respiratory ward...I overheard a lady in a curtained off bed kicking off slightly and getting upset because of a persistent wheezing / rattle in one of her lungs that was causing her distress.  Two members of staff with her, utterly patient, telling her that all tests had turned up nothing, but that they would continue to try and pinpoint the issue.

15 minutes after they went, she buggered off downstairs for quick vape...

I was once in A&E and held the door open for two jolly skinny wizened elderly patients in wheelchairs. Pretty sure they were going outside for a smoke. Each was missing one leg.

The women in the bed opposite my mam last night happened to be her next door neighbour from about 15 years ago

Small world