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Moving away

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GoneFishing111 21 Jan 2018

I may have the chance, albeit in around 18 months of a decent job with a national firm. Problem is it will involve moving away from the NW which probably isn't a bad idea given the hideous weather which seems to hover over us permanently.

 

Im just toying with the idea of where....The options are:

Exeter: South coast, considerably better weather, some decent local climbing, nice country side, decent sea fishing.

London: Brilliant career/life prospects....that about it for the advantages!

North east: I don't really want to head any further north.

Midlands (Rutland): Nice area, anyone know anything else about Rutland/Glaston?

 

Im just wondering where other people would go, pros and cons of each etc?

 Flinticus 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Dont know about any of these except London.

You forgot 'culture' of every kind. So many gigs, events and performances you will not get elsewhere. Plus awesome food / cafe diversity. No mountains though ????

17
 Ciro 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

I was living in London when I first got into climbing, and I soon found myself driving to the south and west coasts every Friday night and back every Sunday night... if you value work/life balance, save yourself the weekend commute. I haven't lived in Exeter but I would put the south west high on my list. Ideally I'd probably want to locate myself in Bristol for easier access to Welsh climbing too, but Exeter is still only three and a half hours from Pembroke, and pretty handy for everything in the south west.

In London, unless you want to top-rope on southern sandstone, your "local" crags are Brean Down and the Peak. Having said that, if you're a keen weekend warrior you have an amazing diversity of rock within five hour's drive, and you can find dry rock every weekend of the year. Even bleau is a doable drive on a friday night.

Post edited at 12:03
 annieman 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

According to the Bronze DofE teams that I work with Rutland is mountainous!

In reality it is flat with a few Ripples. Great for Watersports, no idea about climbing in the area.

Good luck.

 mrphilipoldham 21 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

Ever been to Manchester?

2
J1234 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Read the Alchemist by Coelho.  You live in Lancashire.

Quarries to climb in. Lake District 1 hour to 1.5 hours.

Seaside 40 mins

Wales 1hour to 2 hours

Dales 40 mins

Peak 40/50 mins

Trough of Bowland

Friendly people.

Manchester for a City 2 great footie teams, culture, food, etc 

Great transport links.

what you seek you may already have. Read the Alchemist by Coelho.  I live in Rossendale and my life plan involves Catalunya in the next 6 - 18 months because the weather is shite here, but its not all bad

Post edited at 12:53
GoneFishing111 21 Jan 2018
In reply to J1234:

Read it twice.

I live in a sleepy village in the trough of Bowland, and yes the climbing around here is plentiful.

Its not so much the climbing thats influencing this move, more career/weather/change of scenery. The firm offering the position does not have  NW office.

I have a few friends that live in the south and an American friend that is moving down there from the Ribble valley purely on account of the weather. Is it that much different?

Preston has earned the title of one of the UK's wettest cities before and i read that the village in which i live is the wettest in Lancashire. TBH i am sick of the grey dreariness, near permanent rain and the general mood this fuels within people, plus Preston is an utter shithole, and the thought of ending up working in Preston city after the long hard slog of doing a degree is a bit depressing.

Post edited at 13:10
 stevieb 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Personally, I’d choose Exeter, but it depends how important your career is, what your career is, and where you are in life. 

If you move to Exeter, will there be any other job opportunities in the area? Will you be well paid enough to justify a commute to Bristol? 

London will have the best job opportunities, and has the best transport links to the rest of the world. But, are you happy to live for the weekend? And will you be paid enough to enjoy London?  And, if you’re ready to settle down, is London the place? 

Weather does vary significantly, even in a country the size of England. My dad lived in Ipswich for a while, and couldn’t believe how little it rained. Not great for climbing though. 

GoneFishing111 21 Jan 2018
In reply to stevieb:

The ideal scenario would be to be based in Exeter and travel around the south with the company working. Im not sure what i want career wise, apart from simply a career, wether i could handle the stress of a city job im unsure. 

I know they do have senior surveyors that commute into London two days a week and work from home the rest of the time, half of me thinks to work towards that end then i can live where i please.

I thought going to uni was the big decision requiring a leap of faith, obviously not!

 Jon Stewart 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

I hope this doesn't sound patronising, but to me it sounds like it would be worthwhile to do a really thorough analysis of your priorities. It's just not possible to advise if we don't know whether, for example, you'd sacrifice any hope of after work climbing for far increased career prospects. I for one wouldn't - I just can't make work my top priority for long periods, it's not sufficiently fulfilling (and I love my job!).

As for the culture and whatnot as an advantage in London - it's only an advantage if it's a big priority for you. For me, I want to go a gig, eat out, go to a gallery etc once in a while. But I want to go climbing every day. So it would be barking mad for me to live next to the culture and drive 3 hours or more to go climbing - I'm quite happy to make a weekend of seeing a gig in London, but I ain't making a weekend of going bouldering, that's a quick after-work climbing fix and I want it on my doorstep.

You might find it useful to do this thing called 'Future Authoring' which is a really sensible, structured way to plan what you want to achieve over a period of say 3 years. It looks a bit shit and cheesey, and Jordan Peterson, who I think is both and arsehole and an idiot, had a big part in developing it; but I think it's really useful if you find yourself trying to make these kinds of decisions. There's pretty good research to back up its effectiveness.

https://selfauthoring.com/future-authoring.html

Post edited at 14:37
 felt 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

> Exeter: South coast, considerably better weather, some decent local climbing, nice country side, decent sea fishing.

It rains a lot in Devon too.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

The climate in Exeter is not necessarily better than northern England and the local climbing is rather limited.

1
 pec 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

> North east: I don't really want to head any further north.

Its not actually much/any further North than where you are at the moment and it rains a lot less in the East. You've got quick access to local crags, Northumberland, N.Yorkshire Moors and some in Durham depeneding upon where you are, and its quick to get to the Lakes and Yorkshire Dales. The Peak and Scotland aren't too far either.

The NE isn't the cultural desert of popular mythology, Newcastle in particular has a lot going on and of course the cost of living is very low, just think what kind of house you can buy compared with the cheapest one bedroomed shoe box in a crappy part of London.

 wbo 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:think hard about what you want, and be very realistic about it. I really enjoyed living in London - it's a world class cultural capital.  I lived in SW London, did a lot of running, almost all off road and mountain bikes a lot.  Now it wouldn't work as i want to climb outdoors a few times a week .  So now I would rather not move there - the travelling to climb was a p.i.t.a. 

 The weather in London is very different to the north - the Thames Valley microclimate is no myth

 

 elliott92 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

I've lived in Surrey my whole life. I watch the weather on the south West coast a fair bit as a weekend warrior. The weather is still shite down south. Maybe not as bad as it is up north but it's England... The weather isn't one of our assets and people are still miserable down here! 

GoneFishing111 21 Jan 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

 

Replying to everyone....

Its perhaps worth a mention that i am the most indecisive person i have ever met, im not even doing the same degree i started with!

It all depends on what i want out of the degree.....do i want to work for Grosvenor or Savills or some other London based property firm (assuming i get in) or do i want to work for a national commercial outfit (like the job offered). Or do i scrap the private entities offering decent salaries and work for an organisation doing something id enjoy, like the national trust.

I flip from one thing to the other, and along with that location. Ive never had a job before, that is an employed position with a desk job for which i am studying. Ive been working for myself since i was 17 so i am struggling to imagine which scenario will be better.

The end goal is to ultimately resume my self employment as a free-lance building surveyor, hopefully with a specialism in historical conservation.

Not sure where climbing ranks on my list of priorities.....Id say number one on my list is to provide a decent income so i can buy a house...i really need to do that. 

Anyway, at least Exeter is sort of ruled out on the climbing and weather front then....i assumed it was better!

Good job this decision isn't imminent!

J1234 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

> Read it twice.

>

So have I. 

Anyway you spin it, Lancs is wet.

Thats why I am off to Catalunya

 Ciro 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

> Anyway, at least Exeter is sort of ruled out on the climbing and weather front then....i assumed it was better!

Somewhat surprised by the responses on that front... I used to climb every weekend right through the winter down there... I remember making 16 weekends in a row one year, including climbing tops off at Brean down in January.

 Big Ger 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

I lived in Exeter from 1988 to 1991, it was  a great place to live then. 

But as for how  it is now I cannot say.

2
In reply to Ciro:

Having moved to Somerset from Warrington, I'd say the weather here is considerably better. Yes it rains, but as a rule when the rain stops, the clouds disappear and the sun comes out; unlike the grey cloud gloom that is sadly frequent in the north west. 

T.

GoneFishing111 21 Jan 2018
In reply to Ciro:

Me too, i can't remember the last nice sunny day we had here, there will have been one im sure but not in the last 10 days!!

 

Off to spain in a few weeks to wobble up some four's. Cant wait!

 arch 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Rutland for me.

 

Close by is Langham, where they hang-um.

Oakham where they poke-um.

And Duckem where they............

 

 

 Brass Nipples 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Exeter for climbing, plenty of quiet hilly lanes to ride around, and coast not that far away.

 

 Ciro 21 Jan 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Indeed, and there's loads of climbing areas with distinct micro-climates around the south west. Portland is often dry when all around is wet, and the rain seems to skip round Brean and head for the Bristol channel.  And Exeter is only half an hour from Torbay, which isn't called the English Riviera for no reason. Good for winter sport and trad, and world class psicobloc at the back end of the summer.

 Dred 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Feel I have to make a stand for the local climbing around Exeter. Decent sport venues in torbryan and ansteys cove with more venues being developed, churston etc. Amazing bouldering on the Moors, check bonehill rocks and bovey woods. Class dws around Torbay and brixham, magical mystery tour and rainbow bridge a must. Loads of quality trad on the Moors and coast. If thats not enough, Cornwall, Avon and cheddar in easy reach. As well as all the cream teas and pasties you can eat.

 AJM 21 Jan 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> > Anyway, at least Exeter is sort of ruled out on the climbing and weather front then....i assumed it was better!

> Somewhat surprised by the responses on that front... I used to climb every weekend right through the winter down there... I remember making 16 weekends in a row one year, including climbing tops off at Brean down in January.

Yes, me too. Being based there would be great. I genuinely don't understand this idea that the weather will be no better, nor that the local climbing is limited or poor. 

But hey, not my loss.....

 peppermill 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Knowing nothing of the job it would be the North East and County sandstone, sunshine and beaches all the way for me!

 Trangia 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

No contest! East Sussex.

Best weather in the UK, access to London. Lots of history and culture, lovely Wealden Countryside, the Downs, second most wooded County in Britain, the sea, easy access to the Continent, and of course Southern Sandstone!!

Post edited at 20:37
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Removed User 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

London has the massive advantage of being nearer France and having several major airports.

 SouthernSteve 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

  1. Rutland - attractive countryside, but rural backwater with good access to A1 and M1. No climbs within a short distance (I live quite close and it suits us - settled family life)
  2. Exeter - sea, moorland and climbing - relaxed pace of life, but still fairly vibrant
  3. North East - don't know
  4. London - I wouldn't go back
  • Exeter would be my choice if I was young free and single. 
 alanblyth 21 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

I think this is one of those questions that no one else can answer for you, I have moved a couple of times around the Southeast for work (And once for a woman...), each time I made lots of new friends, had new experiences and really enjoyed it, I suspect that wherever you go isn't going to be where you grow old, and so no decision would be bad, my advice would be to stay flexible, try somewhere and see how it suits,

 CEW 21 Jan 2018
In reply to pec:

And don't forget Scotland is only a nip north.... and loads of fantastic beaches

I moved from Cumbria to the North East and can not believe how much less it rains!

GoneFishing111 21 Jan 2018
In reply to CEW:

Again, replying to all.

Is it possible to live in east Sussex or any other outlying area around London and commute in? How practical is that?

A lot can change in 18 months, who knows, i might win the Euro millions.

What is the climbing like in the south east? 

 Flinticus 21 Jan 2018
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Yes. Do you really think Manchester matches London for diversity? 

Plus the OP did not ask about Manchester so why would that be relevant to this thread?

4
 Trangia 22 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

> Is it possible to live in east Sussex or any other outlying area around London and commute in? How practical is that?

Yes, so long as you avoid living on the strike ridden Southern Rail Network. South Eastern is OK. And have a deep pocket

> What is the climbing like in the south east? 

Very limited. There is only Southern Sandstone - my comment above was tongue in cheek. Otherwise you have to drive for about 2/3 hours to reach Swanage and Portland, or a bit further for Bristol, Cheddar or Wye Valley. London is actually a huge barrier to get round when travelling north to the Peak and beyond adding a good 2 hours to get round. Good if you are driving to Font or the Alps

 

 mrphilipoldham 22 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

Diversity yes.. perhaps not volume but the quality certainly makes up for it. 

I wasn’t suggesting Manchester, merely pointing out that London isn’t special.

1
 Flinticus 22 Jan 2018
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

I would dispute that. Sound like you dont like London. I dont live in London any more and it had enough downsides to move from there but I spent 4-5 years there and it was akin to living in a galatic hub. So many different nationalities and in enough numbers that each established a cultural presence that an outsider could delve into. Not saying Manchester isnt diverse but the numbers give it to London. Something like 300 languages spoken there.

3
In reply to GoneFishing111:

My choice would be NE.  Amble and surrounding villages look like good places to live: great beaches for running with the dog (future possibilities of sea kayaking too); much reduced traffic (other than heights of tourist season) and reasonable distance to good crags and hills.

That Manchester is advocated is surprising.  The levels of noise, air pollution and general rubbish discarded everywhere are pretty depressing.  That's living in one of the "better" areas of SW Manchester.  But having lived thirty years in NE Scotland, with about fourteen of those in the Cairngorm National Park, I can see what a higher quality of life can be lived.

Good Luck

(And cheers to all the Wendyball fans who will no doubt "dislike"  ???? )

 

 mrphilipoldham 22 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

On the contrary, I love my occasional work trip to London (which usually includes an overnight stay). But to say it has more diversity than any other big British city is nonsense. As I said, London obviously wins hands down on volume but everything I’ve sampled in Manchester has always compared to whatever I’ve sampled in London, if not beaten.. on quality. 

That said, I do avoid any urbanised areas of Manchester like the plague these days. Much like most other British cities - as hs been pointed out due to noise/dirt/pollution etc.

Post edited at 15:57
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GoneFishing111 22 Jan 2018
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Thanks for the replies everyone, interesting stuff.

After today at Uni im wondering wether its all bloody worth it anyway!

 Ciro 23 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

> Again, replying to all.

> Is it possible to live in east Sussex or any other outlying area around London and commute in? How practical is that?

> A lot can change in 18 months, who knows, i might win the Euro millions.

> What is the climbing like in the south east? 

If you're going to London, best to base yourself in West London - I ended up in Shepherd's Bush which was minutes to the M3 (Swanage, Portland), M4 (Bristol, SW and south Wales) and M40 (North Wales) and not long to get round the north circular and onto the M1 for the Peak.

 Dave Garnett 23 Jan 2018
In reply to Ciro:

> Somewhat surprised by the responses on that front... I used to climb every weekend right through the winter down there...

Me too.  Even when it's wet the rain is 10 degrees warmer than in the NW.  

 

 

 The New NickB 23 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Move to London, everyone should for a little while. Most sensible people disprove Dr Johnson after a few years, but it is good for helping you work out your priorities.

1
GoneFishing111 23 Jan 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

Disprove Dr Johnson?

 The New NickB 23 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

The famous Dr Johnson quote is along the lines of “tired of London, tired of life”. I think London is somewhere that everyone should experience for a bit, but a lot of people get tired of it and want a different life after a few years.

 Jon Stewart 23 Jan 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> Move to London, everyone should for a little while.

I've got family in London and have been visiting regularly-ish my whole life. My work used to take me to London at least once a month. Every time I go I'm overcome with feelings of claustrophobia, anxiety and despair. The water is disgusting. The air is disgusting. The city is disgusting.

Do you think I should move there for a little while?

6
 The New NickB 24 Jan 2018
In reply to Jon Stewart:

You are probably past that stage and it seems you have plenty experience of the place. Apart from the water, I didn’t share your opinion on it, but definitely decided that I had enough of it after a few years. I just suggest that everyone should try living in a major international city for a bit, even if only to decide that it is not for them. Regret the things you haven’t done etc.

Post edited at 09:35
 ballsac 24 Jan 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

>  ...I just suggest that everyone should try living in a major international city for a bit, even if only to decide that it is not for them. Regret the things you haven’t done etc.

do you suggest the same for Diptheria, or Dysentry?

most people are pefectly capable of deciding for themselves that a large, crowded, crime-ridden, exorbitant, dirty, wheeze-inducing armpit is not for them without having to try it.

pleasant enough for a once-in-a-decade short weekend, if only to remind oneself that the grass isn't greener on the other side, its grey, and festooned with syringes and pidgeon shit...

 

Post edited at 10:43
3
 The New NickB 24 Jan 2018
In reply to ballsac:

Living  in a city is like contracting diphtheria. What a lovely view of the world you have. The OP is considering London, I’m suggesting try it, even if only to reach the decision that it’s not for him.

 Robert Durran 24 Jan 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> The famous Dr Johnson quote is along the lines of “tired of London, tired of life”.

I refute him thus: there aren't any rocks worth kicking, let alone climbing.

 

 felt 24 Jan 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

There are a couple of decent routes up the massive plane trees in Berkeley Square.

 The New NickB 24 Jan 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I refute him thus: there aren't any rocks worth kicking, let alone climbing.

I do as well.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

I'm extremely happy living on the side of the Derwent Valley south of Matlock. West facing, sunny, very good walking straight out of front door and excellent communications with Derby, London, East midlands airport etc, and nearby Peak. Snowdonia and Lakes also in easy driving distance. In fact, being centrally situated, it's good for just about anywhere in England. People generally more honest than in London or s/east and a bit more laid back. Some really good pubs. Culturally quite good too.

In reply to GoneFishing111:

Assuming all things are equal wrt work, then it’s all down to climbing and quality of life. London is obviously a non starter. Once you spend some time in Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield or Nottingham, then Exeter is ok, but not top of the list. Great walls, climbing outdoors after work, grit and lime, easy access to NW, Lakes, Dales etc, any one of those northern cities is a good choice. If a job came up in Lancaster, then I would be off there immediately, but then again 38 years climbing in the Peak has left me a bit jaded....

In reply to GoneFishing111:

The London job might seem attractive from a salary perspective, but be aware that rents are extortionate and where it seems affordable there is probably a very good reason, and not a good one.

Having said that, I have lived in London all my life (up until a few years ago when I made the dream move to rural home counties) and it hasn't done me any harm. I'm a shit climber though. Also, all the cultural attractions London has to offer, you won't go to hardly any of them if you are remotely normal human being. Samsara will take over and you will spend all your free time sat in front of the telly watching netflix eating a pot noodle in a damp bedsit permanently lit by street lamps and polluted with diesel fumes serenaded by sirens wondering why it's costing you £1500 a month in rent to live above a kebab shop on a street where the pavement is actually a shop floor for phone thieving acid throwing knife carrying moped riding highwaymen. *

 

 

*tongue firmly in cheek. It's not that bad

 

 galpinos 24 Jan 2018
In reply to Ghastlyrabbitfat:

> That Manchester is advocated is surprising.  The levels of noise, air pollution and general rubbish discarded everywhere are pretty depressing.  That's living in one of the "better" areas of SW Manchester. 

There's only two! Manchester's main issue is that the traffic makes it a pig to get out of. There loads of climbing not very far but there's nothing very close.

 Flinticus 24 Jan 2018
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Its not nonsense. Your insistence is however.

Any other big British city? I live (and love) Glasgow but it hasn't the fraction of diversity of London. Nor has Edinburgh, another city I have been in a fair bit. Still great places but that is not the point.

1
In reply to GoneFishing111:

I live near Rutland and it is indeed a lovely place. Some of the local towns such as Oakham and Stamford are delightful but not for the young career types I dont think. Not as cheap as you might think to live either. Rutland itself can be very pricey.

 mrphilipoldham 24 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

Maybe you’re not looking hard enough

With regards to the only point you made, languages spoken.. apparently Manchester is the most varied if you believe the Independent. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/200-la... (plenty of other sources for this story too with a simple google of ‘most languages spoken in uk cities)

What say you now?

Post edited at 16:48
 The New NickB 24 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

Manchester is a much bigger city than Glasgow or Edinburgh and much more diverse. It isn’t London of course, that is mainly a good thing.

 aln 24 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

I'd love to live in Wester Ross. If I was you I'd stay there. 

In reply to aln:

Wester Ross is great if you like gales, midges, gloomy winters with very short days, wee-free religious restrictions, bagpipes, and being detached from civilization. There can be some good, midge free weather in April and September, however. 

 The New NickB 24 Jan 2018
In reply to aln:

> I'd love to live in Wester Ross. If I was you I'd stay there. 

The OP lives in Preston!

 aln 24 Jan 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

He said the NW, the NW of the UK is Wester Ross. 

In reply to aln:

Sorry, ignore my last post. I had crossed wires in my mind with West Harris. <i>Some</i> of what I said may however still apply to Wester Ross.

 aln 24 Jan 2018
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Sorry, ignore my last post.

I already had... 

Bogwalloper 24 Jan 2018
In reply to GoneFishing111:

Someone said higher up that there's not much difference in climate between where you are and Exeter - apart from the fact that The Trough get's about 3/4 times the average rainfall as Exeter on double the rainfall days.

Personally I'd go to the place with the best climbing combined with the least rainfall.

Oh and on rainy weekends you could take up surfing.

W

 Robert Durran 24 Jan 2018
In reply to galpinos:

> There's only two! Manchester's main issue is that the traffic makes it a pig to get out of.

I had the misfortune to live in Manchester for a couple of years. What a hell hole. Spent all  my time trying to get out of it. Fortunately managed to escape back to Scotland.

 Flinticus 25 Jan 2018
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

That is proportionate to its population. Which is beside the point when it comes to experiencing diversity.

Using Google too you will see 300+ for London.

Glasgow pop 608k approx

Manchester 541k approx

You dont appear to know much about other cities...

 mrphilipoldham 25 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

Go on then, how many languages did you personally ‘experience’ living in London? How many can you now hold a conversation in? It’s a pointless exercise debating what’s available, if we face facts you’re more likely to spend your time holed up with a pot noodle watching Netflix, as has been said. Therefore any UK city will give you more than enough diversity should you wish to actively seek it.

Indeed, per population head is probably the best way to measure diversity.. the higher it is, the more likely you are to encounter it in every day situations. What’s the point in having a tribal African language spoken in one household if you have to bump in to it’s speakers in a city of 8m?

Post edited at 14:16
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 Flinticus 25 Jan 2018
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

You did ask for a response so why get tetchy when I give one?

If its now down to my personal experiences, rather than what is available, then a whole lot more than i have experienced in Manchester, including Tuvan and Armenian as two that i particularly recall. What has my ability to hold a conversation in it any relevance and that would be constant regardless of the city. That's my last post on this as its kinda pointless and you change the topic debated to suit your evolving argument.

 mrphilipoldham 25 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

My argument hasn’t evolved, it’s progressed.. as all good debates do. The basic point still stands, that not a single one of us is ever likely to run out of diversity in any UK city. 

There’s an Armenian restaurant in Manchester City centre that I already knew of, and it appears that Tuvan throat singers have played in the city in recent years. Any better examples?

1
 The New NickB 25 Jan 2018
In reply to Flinticus:

The 541k population figures for Manchester is simply the administrative area of Manchester City Council, the city region is 3m. Remember the City of London has a population of 8,800, but nobody considers 8,800 to be the population of London, they consider it a city of nearly 9m based on the population of 33 London Boroughs. The Glasgow city region extends to a population of about 1.5m, by far the largest in Scotland, but 6th or 7th in the U.K. as a whole.

Post edited at 18:05

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