UKC

We got a new dog in May.  He's a 5 year old Husky we adopted from a tourist sled dogging operation - the same place as we adopted our older (11) dog from about 6 years ago.

He's a lovely dog, very gentle.  He worships the older dog and follows her around everywhere.  The only issue is that after this time he's still scared of me.  The sled dog company said he was like this with all men, so maybe it's a socialization issue. But it's strange that his fear is very context dependent:  when I'm on the sofa I can get him to come to me, he'll sit on my feet and revel in stokes; same when I'm in bed (stop sniggering at the back), he'll sidle up and enjoy strokes.

But apart from that he seems fearful, outside he runs away - but there is a lot of play type posture when he does.  Luckily he loves my wife so she can get him, because he's fast as f*ck.

I'm trying some general desensitizing activities with lots of treats.  A bit of less is more ignoring him and dog body language tricks from books (looking away, turning head sideways).  It seems to be working very slowly, but does anyone have any thoughts?

By the way, there's no hint that he's been badly treated - the place we got him from has exceptional welfare standards.

I think sometimes these things just take time. What's his favourite game? Make sure you play whatever that is regularly. Maybe chuck him a wee bit of food every time you you walk past him (just some of his daily food, doesn't need to be an extra)? Teach him some tricks? Anything which makes it fun for him to be around you. Ours loves to learn tricks (using his food as training treats) and a game of fetch and tug with a frisbee. The more you and him just have fun together, the more he will bond with you.

Now I know nothing about dogs, but as they're apparently pack animals with a hierarchy, maybe he needs to see where you fit in with your wife.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things.  It takes longer than a few months to overcome something like this. As for the context, when you are sitting or lying down you are displaying non threatening body language automatically.  Maybe try taking a chair outside and see if that helps? 

I think a lot of the hierarchy stuff was debunked.  

Join this facebook group: https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=374160792599484&ref=content_filte...

There is a lot of information on the units and the moderators are trainers and behaviourists.

It can take a long time, you'll have to follow the pace of the dog. Do not force him into situations, that's flooding and can make things worst. Have a look at Drax, https://www.natdogs.com/drax, he is also in Facebook. It's a different case, but it's making slow but great progress.

Also the books of Sally Gutteridge will give you a very good understanding of dog body language and how to deal with fearful dogs and help him to cope better. They get very subtle signs that humans ignore most of the time: lip licking, yawning, whale eyes, face turning away.. They're early signs of stress and of a dog that is asking for space. 

I also have some challenges with my own dog, so I know how it feels. I wish I had known one year ago what I know now, I could have made his life so much easier!

Forget all that pack/dominance theory, it's all bullshit. Dogs aren't wolfs, and that famous study has been long proven wrong even by its own authors. Just google 'pack theory debunked' and you'll get all the facts. Modern scientific methods and studies on how dogs learn are far away from that. Classical conditioning, operational conditioning and so on is what is all about.

Patience. You're getting there. May to now is not long for trying to change ingrained behaviour. Aside from training, continue with the love, be calm and predictable and, as you've already, said, don't push the pace.

Stop stealing his food when your wife is not looking!

Fair enough. Seems dogs are more sophisticated than most humans then.

Give it time... Patience, consistency and time.

We've had our rescue girl nearly 3 years now, and she can still be pretty unsure about me much of the time. She's much better generally around the Missus. I've learnt (often the hard way!) to give her space when she's telling me that not interested in being made a fuss of.

Being aloof, calm and quiet are seen as a virtue in the dog world, signalling a positive leader role. From my own experience over time, our girl seems to respond much better to me when I don't directly seek her attention. I have learnt in particular that direct eye contact frightens her, so often half close my eyes when greeting her especially if she's in her own space. She has many qualities that you'd associate with a cat rather than a dog 

Thanks for the Sally Gutteridge tip from the berzagalega above. Have some of her books  on order.

Edit: just to wish you luck with your boy, and to say that, to my mind, the more "difficult" the dog, the more rewarding you will find  your relationship with them when they start to trust you, and respond positively to you. 

Yes, this. Today is our 4 year "Gotcha" day with ours. He was never particularly distrustful of us, and would like a bit of a stroke, but only in the last few months has started to properly come up for a cuddle. He will now curl up on me and sleep. It seems so normal for many dog owners, but for us it is massive! And in the run up to fireworks night this year, he started  coming to us for reassurance rather than running away from us and quivering in the corner (he still quivered, but took comfort from being near us). These feel like massive steps, it's only taken 4 years! Lol

Slightly 'intuitively' rather than from a place of knowledge, have you tried lying on the floor and offering out treats? If your dog can be above you and see you in a harmless pose, and get to come up to you and eat something nice, it might help a little bit?

It was with a cat, rather than a dog, but I let a cat I was looking after crawl and walk over and investigate me while lying down when we didn't know one another, it seemed to help her be at ease.

Exactly that: The small steps mean so much. I was doing some paperwork the other day and felt a little nuzzle on my leg. She'd just come over to say "hello human, attention now please." I absentmindedly stroked her on the top of her head and all around her ears, whilst she made her appreciative little nasal, grunting noises (ponking we call it.) This would have been totally unimaginable until fairly recently. 

Happy 4th Gotcha to your boy! 

sounds like you are triggering the "chase me" game rather than him being afraid. Try running away from him, he should chase you instead then.

Doing a quick shuttle run away from him and then throwing a treat in that direction, as soon as he picks up the treat and looks at you again, run away again and do the same.  keep doing this 5-10 times a day in little bursts, both indoors and out on walks, and then slowly introduce a recall command WHILE he is running towards you.

Otherwise, cut up bits of steak and keep them in your pocket and he'll soon know who to sit next to

Play bows can be fear/ nervousness too, a bit like we can be giggly or mess around to diffuse tension if we are unsure of a situation. It's got to be looked at in the context of other body language and behaviours too. 

Either way, if the dog will take to it as a game, then that should help build a good relationship so worth trying!

Well there has been the odd sausage that hasn't made it to the dog bowl.  Have you been spying on me?!

Out of interest which Husky company did you get him from?

I've worked as a Husky guide and dog handler in Finland and Norway. I always spent more time with the more timid Huskies, to make as much progress with developing a good relationship with them. It was always very satisfying when progress was made, basically it takes time and patience...

Thanks for the encouragement, sounds like I'm on the right track.  I'll check out the books / links too, looks interesting.  I don't do any of the Alpha dog, Alpha roll stuff, though obviously the missus is the Pack Leader

Some good reminders up thread.  I do sit, crouch down, outside as I've read read dogs don't like you looming over them.  I've also been lying down and stroking him in the house, but could probably do that more, and treats, and throwing treats.

You can get a lot of exercise playing fetch with a Husky as they just look at you in a "you threw it, you get it" kind of way.  His favorite game is running round the garden like a lunatic, but now I think of it when I walk away from him he does trot along behind me; just out of reach.

Anyway it's kind of fun and rewarding when you get little breakthroughs.

https://www.snowyowltours.com/

They provided all the dog extras for Disney's Togo (my wife was the scrip supervisor) and our older dog K2 is in there for about 1 second for her moment of fame.

Loki also escaped 2 or 3 times and they only got him back by running the team and he came over to join in.  But like the other dog he was too lazy for work and obviously not enjoying it, so they both got early retirement.  

Your post brought to mind a book I read called 'The Philosopher and the Wolf' which was good fun. Explained in detail how they are different than humans.

Maybe. 

I love cats but there's always a part of me that thinks they'd go for and eat the person handing out the treats if they were just a bit bigger and stronger..... They're just sussing you out to work out how much they can fck with you.

Not sure you can apply the same to a dug mindset.

That's awesome, watched that film for the second time the other week, also cried for the second time watching it!

I had my dream job of working in Svalbard (as a Husky Guide) denied at the last minute due to the Pandemic, bag packed and flight booked

Indeed, most animals including humans prefer not to be 'loomed over' was my thinking, like me when I was in the park sitting chilling and looked up to two guys wanting to talk to me about Jesus. Fair enough about the Jesus part I guess, but the looming wasn't welcome. 

The other thing he might like, being a husky, is canicross. He has to listen to your directions etc so is tuning in to you but might well find it very satisfying, since it is what he is bred for and will be similar to what he has done previously. And you get well exercised too!

Good book about this is in Defense of Dog by John Bradshaw.

He goes through a lot of the reason why those myths started and why they are wrong.

Take the chips out of your nostrils mate.  That's well known to scare dogs.

Nah, they love chips

This is what we do most days, or skijouring.  He's a good lad, gets into work mode a pulls well; I just need to remember which is gee and which is haa, I can't remember my left and rights as it is.

I just use left and right with mine, but sometimes we take a friend's dog who is trained to gee and haw and it messes with my head! Lol. Yours presumably came "pre-programmed" with those?

That film would bring a tear to a glass eye.

That's a bugger about Svalbard.  Better luck next season.

In the unlikely event that anyone here wants to waste more time on the internet here's the dog's Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/k2ormerod

The trouble is I've trained the old dog for left and right, but the new one is still on gee and haa.  Lots of confusion!

Ha ha, all the fun! 😜

Thanks for sharing the facebook page, gorgeous dogs 😃