UKC

I wondered if anyone has experienced converting a van that adheres to the new DVLA rules? I'm mainly interested in the below three:

• 2 or more windows on at least one side of the main body (this does not include windows on the driver or passenger doors) to provide a reasonable amount of daylight into the living accommodation
• motor caravan-style graphics on both sides of the vehicle
• an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle

Does the first mean that a standard crew-cab type van with two size windows no longer fits the bill and a third would need to be installed to ensure that there's at least two on one side?

Graphics, are these really needed? 

And again with respect to the awning, this seems a little over the top as well to have it as a mandatory thing...

I know some people with recently converted campers (or in the process of conversion) which don't meet these criteria. I'm unsure whether they have requested the van to be re-classified yet but it would be good to hear any experiences and how strictly these rules are applied.  

Thanks,

James

Yes, all those are required to reclassify it. However once reclassified there's not much from preventing you removing them. One thing you may have missed, is that the van has to be high top which makes most standard vans unable to reclassify. Pop top is not enough either

But then this:

https://www.quirkycampers.co.uk/how-to-meet-dvla-campervan-conversion-recla...

...suggests it doesn't actually have any impact on anything what the category on the V5 says.  So why even bother?

Yes, tried to reclassify, which in hindsight was just before they changed the rules. They fobbed me off with a poor reason (no stickers), and by the time I'd resubmitted a few weeks later the rules had changed and it was rejected as it wasn't a hightop. There's no point resubmitting now as it'll never be a hightop, but in hindsight is hasn't made any difference to insurance, and arguably no change to speed limits either, so no great loss.

It's all a bit of a puzzle though. Before they changed the rules, if it had x, y and z it MUST be reclassified. It now has all that stuff (but no hightop) and now it won't be reclassified. Oh well.

No need for a tacho...

For use abroad I guess?  No need within the UK anyway when being used for that purpose (or at all, if it's just a 3500kg Transit).

The speed limit thing is stupid.  There is no sensible reason why adding windows and back seats to a vehicle should change the speed limits for that exact same vehicle, or why (along similar lines) a Berlingo van should have lower limits than a Berlingo car, say, because they're basically identical.  A more sensible distinction would be that <=3500kg GVW got car limits, and >3500kg GVW got commercial ones.

You can get cheaper insurance through specialist outfits if clasified as camper, as well as full contents insurance without having to argue with your insurer after a break in why your insured 'van with windows' was used as a 'motor-caravan' and whether the contents related to its use ought to be covered or not

Though the link above (and info on the DVLA site) seems to suggest insurance shouldn't actually care about the V5 classification but rather what it actually is.

That said, you can always trust insurance companies to be awkward.

That's what i mean about specialist outfits. If you go to Admiral or whatever, entering the body type 'may' not affect price (doubtful when even depending on the day of the week you get the quote you get a different price).

However, specialist motorhome insurers tend to be cheaper, and for you to be able to insure with them the V5 has to state the vehicle is a motorhome.

Yeah.

Not sure I'd like to have that argument with an insurance company after a crash as to why the panel van on the policy seems to have insulation, bed, cooking kit and the bulkhead removed but isn't classified as a motorhome.

I would assume this is down to loading. A GVW camper van is unlikely to be loaded down to 3.5k but a working van maybe. My van typically weighs 3.3 ton and you definitely know about it on country roads. 

You can’t transfer any no claims bonus earned on a van insurance policy to a subsequent car policy. Some I learned from bitter experience.

I think you might be surprised how many camper vans are running very close or just over the design weight, I've spoken to lots of owners over the years and many of them are running at or over GVW  😮

I thought this with transferring car no claims to a van, but it seemed to vary by insurer/comparison website and I had no problems in the end. I don't see why it would be any different doing it the opposite way?

I've just today changed from a Fiat Doblo lwb to a car and the insurance has carried over my no claims discount.

keith s

It’s got something to do with preventing people accumulating no claims bonus while driving a works van and then transferring it to their own car policy. So insurers do what’s easiest for them and don’t allow any transfer of NCB from van to a car.

This was, admittedly, some years ago so hopefully things might have changed.

Although knowing insurance companies I wouldn’t bet on it

Depends on the insurer.  You can with some.  You just have to make sure you pick one (read the T&C carefully) that allows it.

I've already transferred car->van (because my Land Rover is legally a van), and am going to be transferring back again as I'm selling it.  I'm pretty sure Direct Line specifically state either will do, and I'm sure there are others.  You just need to do your research.

It isn't.  Some insurers allow it, some don't.  You just need to find one that does!

When I had this issue, my  insurer soon changed his "rules" when I suggested I would look elsewhere.

My broker was quite bulled up when I described his trade like  posh bookies, assessing risks and returns.

He was a bit miffed when I then pointed out that bookies reputations rely on always paying out.

I have campervan insurance, for a 'van with windows' . They know it's kitted out as a camper, they know the DVLA rules changed, they're happy to insure it for a sensible price with contents cover and 6 months European cover included. There's no need as far as I can tell to have the van classified as a camper on the V5 in order to get cheap and suitable insurance.

Yes you can. I just have. 

Depends where you live i guess. Last time i looked into it just over a year ago i was told over the phone that they did not believe me when i said the van i wanted to get was to be used as a campervan and not used for work or going to work, they laughed when i said i take the tube to go work (London) and said that since i was lying they could not give me a quote.

Other companies i tried didn't make the same direct accusation, but were quoting me between 4k and 6k a year for insuring a 'van with windows' saying they could not insure a commercial vehicle for social, domestic and pleasure. Trying quotes online just gave me the 'we can't offer you a quote online, phone us on xxxxxxx' or the above several thousands.

Motorhome insurance would do it for a reasonable fee, but it needs to be registered as such. So luckily i'm a shorty who fits in the back of a car as not having off-street parking to keep it uninsured until it's done and not being able to afford an already registered one means they are beyond me.

Edit: Just had a punt on gocmpare see what the prices are like nowadays. Cheapest quote for a 2012 transit, social use only, at my address, my age (43), no convictions, etc came out at £3842.72 if paid at once, going down to £3651.20 if fitting a black box. If paid in monthly instalments the cheapest quote comes up at £5318.55 (1 x £949.75 + 10 x £436.88) So it seems i'll be sleeping in the back of a car for a long time to come still

I had the same problem with the usual websites/companies (GoCompare, LVE, Admiral etc.) where they don't understand that a van can be used for something other than work and ask you if it has a company logo or if you keep tools in it. If you try a broker instead, especially one that advertises camper insurance, you'll be able to get SD+P insurance and the price will be much lower. My insurance on a partially converted 2007 vito, 20k miles and plenty of days in mainland Europe is ~£650 I think? £200 more than my car was.

I’m glad to hear that.

Several years ago my insurer cancelled my car insurance because I told them that I had several years no claims bonus.

When they found out the NCB was earned on a camper van they weren’t happy and cancelled my car insurance.

You don’t ever want to end up on the ‘had motor insurance cancelled’ list.

Luckily things seem to have changed for the better.

Yeah i tried all the brokers i could find and didn't help. Those were the ones that in one way or another said they would not insure it for social. If i remember right it was Adrian Flux who accused me of lying to them. Probably the London address as i once got a quote on my sister's address in Bristol and that came at about £1000 which is cheaper than my car insurance, but i just didn't want the risk/hassle of gettig caught doing that.  Thanks though

Sorry I replied before I realised quite how many people had said the same thing!

Indeed you don't want to be on that list. I would have argued as long and as hard as possible for them to recons the cancellation. Unless they explicitly excluded it and/or you had told them at inception where you earnt the ncb would have been enough. 

Several times insurers have tried to change or impose new terms because of a discrepancy. Every time I told them to check the recorded phone conversation where I told there staff member exactly what I had/needed. Most of the time it's human error or you answer doesn't quite fit the box so they use something else. 

I had a long and protracted battle with the insurers who cancelled my insurance.

It was actually pre internet days and the first thing I knew about the cancellation was when I received a letter five days after they’d cancelled the policy.

So I’d been driving around for five days with no insurance. I was even more annoyed as I had used the same insurance company for both my camper van and car insurance.

It took numerous phone calls and letters to come to a settlement. You’re right in your point about the usefulness of recorded phone conversations 

Even now I worry when an insurer asks ‘have you ever had a policy cancelled’.

I reply no but I always worry that they’ll dig up the old incident and then I’ll be on the ‘lying to an insurance company’ list - if there is such a thing.

I spoke to Shield insurance about this recently as I have plans for a new conversion, they are specialists in self build conversion insurance. They said that the insurers are currently willing to insure vehicles as Campervans based on the old rules (one window, bed, cooker) rather than the new DVLA rules. This is definitely cheaper than regular van insurance which would probably have to declair any converios to the body (new window holes) too.