UKC

Nicola Sturgeon.....what a contrast...

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 abr1966 26 May 2020

Just watching her address....

Clear, precise, considered, well delivered, believable, humane, thorough....numerous angles covered and watching it is like she is talking to me personally....

What an absolute contrast....the exact opposite of what we have from Westminster....

She is showing great leadership.....

What an embarrassment we have in England..

40
 Skyfall 26 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

‘believable’ ?  
 

She probably plays the political game better than any of them and hence I don’t believe much of what she says.  But I grant you she’s a great communicator.  

Post edited at 20:32
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 Bacon Butty 26 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

A Neanderthal could perform better than any of our shower of ...

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OP abr1966 26 May 2020
In reply to Skyfall:

Yes....believable.

I'm not saying id vote for her or agree with her policies but in terms of offering leadership and a direction through covid an absolute contrast to what's in England...

5
 PPP 26 May 2020
In reply to Skyfall:

She has been saying that she doesn't want to involve politics into COVID-19 handling. Whether her actions and responses back that up, well... you could argue.

She is limited in what she can do. Furlough scheme without UK Government backing just wouldn't happen, so Scotland going into lockdown earlier wasn't a possibility. I am not sure whether devolved nations stray off lockdown rules because they want to do this or because they can, which has stirred some anger and media keeps reporting English guidelines as UK guidelines. 

Either way, she does sound like a human though, which makes the daily briefings much easier to listen to. It does highlight London vs Scotland issues though.

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In reply to abr1966:

I've noticed the stark contrast, too.

 Richard Horn 26 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

"The art of politics is to get someone else to have your way"

2
Le Sapeur 26 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

I hate the idea of nationalism and separatism and consequently have absolutely no time for the SNP and SNP's. However I genuinely think she has handled this situation quite well. She has the advantage of being 3 weeks behind Westminster and learning from their mistakes. There are some areas where the SNP have not done so well. Only offering 75% grants on second businesses is one of them. Overall, despite everything she does being hugely political, she is a politician after all, I really think she has done her best for the country.

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 Lord_ash2000 26 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

As Le Sapeur mentioned she's a few weeks behind. It's easy to just see what the government does, wait a fortnight, see what is and isn't well received and then do basically the same only with the benefit of seeing the outcome beforehand.

Everything is better is Scotland

youtube.com/watch?v=Slu1OuykMIk& 

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 druss 26 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

She speaks well and good command of party disciplin, but I can't stop thinking shes basically a "Nigel Farage" of Scotland.  Basically both SNP and UKIP's #1 priority are the same - more like ultranationalist (not in the extreme right-wing sense) party - than a centre left/right party.

Scottish independence and then seeking EU membership doesn't seem compatible from an ideological standpoint.  Lucky, not my hole to square and looking forward, from the side-lines, how IndyRef2 plays out.

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 Ian W 26 May 2020
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> As Le Sapeur mentioned she's a few weeks behind. It's easy to just see what the government does, wait a fortnight, see what is and isn't well received and then do basically the same only with the benefit of seeing the outcome beforehand.

Pity westminster didnt do that after looking at the examples of Spain / Italy / France / insert country of your choice that was a couple of weeks ahead of us......

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 DaveHK 26 May 2020
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

>  It's easy to just see what the government does, wait a fortnight...

Aye, looks like it's been a total doddle for her.

 gavmac 26 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

I'm a very firm supporter of an independent Scotland but have been a big critic of the SNP on a number of policies over the last few years. I say that for balance. I'm certainly not a flag waving nationalist. 

I think Nicola Sturgeon has been excellent for one main reason, she genuinely cares. I think she is a compassionate and down to earth, and for that reason many people connect with her. Not perfect by any means, but it really is night and day to Westminster. 

Post edited at 23:39
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 Graeme G 26 May 2020
In reply to druss:

> Scottish independence and then seeking EU membership doesn't seem compatible from an ideological standpoint.

Depends on your ideology, there’s a broad range mixed in there. For some it’s purism for others it’s self destiny.

 The Lemming 27 May 2020
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> As Le Sapeur mentioned she's a few weeks behind. It's easy to just see what the government does, wait a fortnight, see what is and isn't well received and then do basically the same only with the benefit of seeing the outcome beforehand.

Boris had this option as the country is 3 weeks behind most of Europe.

Did Boris use this buffer time to wait and see before planning the next stage?

I'll let you decide 

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 jimtitt 27 May 2020
In reply to The Lemming:

So why didn't Scotland go into lockdown 3 weeks before England?

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 JohnBson 27 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

1. Rapid hospital discharge to carehomes policy not altered until 1 week after England.

2. Less testing than England

3. Slow to recruit track and tracers despite having voiced this as a key component in the plan earlier. 

4. Death rate per 1000 worse than England despite significantly less dense population. 

5. Scottish business rates relief is at 25,000 per business not per rateable property, therefore small but expanding business is worse off. 

6. Nike conference cover-up. 

7. Nicola Sturgeon failed to attend as many cobra meetings in the initial stages than Johnson. 

Yes very clear communication but utterly fictitious, designed to keep Scotland's sheep brainwashed. 

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 The Lemming 27 May 2020
In reply to jimtitt:

Why are you asking me?

Is this a pop question?

Does Nicola have greater powers than Westminster to do such things?

Does Nicola have the same powers as the Treasury to shake the magic money tree to pay almost everybody?

Why the Fek didn't England go into Lockdown three weeks before England did?

Post edited at 05:50
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 jimtitt 27 May 2020
In reply to The Lemming:

Just a simple question as I´m not familiar with the powers devolved to the Scottish assembly. What did they do in the 3 weeks within the powers and resources available to them? Like recommend social distancing, wearing masks, organising the sourcing and production of PPE and such like?

 Graeme G 27 May 2020
In reply to JohnBson:. 

> Yes very clear communication but utterly fictitious, designed to keep Scotland's sheep brainwashed. 

You were doing well until the insult. That’s not going to help anyone. Unless you actually mean sheep. In which case you should know there are no plans, well not that I’m aware of, to extend voting rights in Scotland to include farm animals.

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 The Lemming 27 May 2020
In reply to jimtitt:

> Just a simple question as I´m not familiar with the powers devolved to the Scottish assembly. What did they do in the 3 weeks within the powers and resources available to them? Like recommend social distancing, wearing masks, organising the sourcing and production of PPE and such like?

No idea, I only get English news.

Sorry

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 rogerwebb 27 May 2020
In reply to gavmac:

> I'm a very firm supporter of an independent Scotland but have been a big critic of the SNP on a number of policies over the last few years. I say that for balance. I'm certainly not a flag waving nationalist. 

> I think Nicola Sturgeon has been excellent for one main reason, she genuinely cares. I think she is a compassionate and down to earth, and for that reason many people connect with her. Not perfect by any means, but it really is night and day to Westminster. 

And as a very firm opponent of independence I agree with your assessment. 

 summo 27 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

How has Scottish policy differed to England? And how has that been reflected in death rates? 

 Graeme G 27 May 2020
In reply to summo:

> How has Scottish policy differed to England? And how has that been reflected in death rates? 

Surely you could just google that yourself?

The OP is about NS presentation when compared to others. Methinks you’re looking for a wee anti-SNP/independence ‘dig’? As you are oft to do.

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 rogerwebb 27 May 2020
In reply to summo:

> How has Scottish policy differed to England? And how has that been reflected in death rates? 

Clarity of delivery. 

There have been mistakes, planeandsimple's list is largely accurate. The difference is that generally the intention seems to be to control a virus rather than consolidate power.

Edit:The last comment is unfair on some in the UK government. 

Post edited at 09:14
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 skog 27 May 2020
In reply to druss:

> She speaks well and good command of party disciplin, but I can't stop thinking shes basically a "Nigel Farage" of Scotland.

That would probably have been a fair comparison for Salmond, but not for Sturgeon.

> Basically both SNP and UKIP's #1 priority are the same - more like ultranationalist (not in the extreme right-wing sense) party - than a centre left/right party.

> Scottish independence and then seeking EU membership doesn't seem compatible from an ideological standpoint.

I suspect you've made some false assumptions about the motivations many people have for wanting independence, or what such independence might mean. It's certainly my standpoint that Scotland should be a country capable of making its own decisions and setting its own laws, but also that it's critically important for countries to work together for the greater good in unions, standing together against competition and opposition, delegating decisions up to the group level where they are better taken there.

Critically, an independent country can fight directly for its own interests in such a union and can ultimately overrule laws passed to it, or even leave the union as a last resort; this has always been true of the UK within the EU, but not of Scotland in the UK. The UK parliament is sovereign, and can - and sometimes does - simply overrule the devolved parliaments.

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 skog 27 May 2020
In reply to jimtitt:

> So why didn't Scotland go into lockdown 3 weeks before England?

It couldn't.

Scotland has very limited controls over finance, and simply couldn't have implemented anything like the UK's furlough scheme.

I don't know whether Scotland would have gone into lockdown earlier if that was different, but as things are it just wasn't an option.

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Removed User 27 May 2020
In reply to JohnBson:

> 1. Rapid hospital discharge to carehomes policy not altered until 1 week after England.

> 2. Less testing than England

> 3. Slow to recruit track and tracers despite having voiced this as a key component in the plan earlier. 

> 4. Death rate per 1000 worse than England despite significantly less dense population. 

> 5. Scottish business rates relief is at 25,000 per business not per rateable property, therefore small but expanding business is worse off. 

> 6. Nike conference cover-up. 

> 7. Nicola Sturgeon failed to attend as many cobra meetings in the initial stages than Johnson. 

> Yes very clear communication but utterly fictitious, designed to keep Scotland's sheep brainwashed. 

Yep, you've got most of it covered there. The outcome in Scotland us pretty much the same as in England except more deaths in care homes and the lowest test rate in the developed world.

It's as clear example of style over substance as you could ask for.

People always criticise politicians for being all talk and no delivery but then tell us wisely what a great politician she is......

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 Harry Jarvis 27 May 2020
In reply to rogerwebb:

> Clarity of delivery. 

> There have been mistakes, planeandsimple's list is largely accurate. The difference is that generally the intention seems to be to control a virus rather than consolidate power. 

As someone undecided about nationalism and about Sturgeon in general, I would agree. It also seems to me that Sturgeon is far more likely to deliver the daily press briefings herself, and has been accountable in Holyrood, to a far greater degree than Johnson has managed. She has not sought to hide away from the cameras. 

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 rogerwebb 27 May 2020
In reply to Removed User:

> Yep, you've got most of it covered there. The outcome in Scotland us pretty much the same as in England except more deaths in care homes and the lowest test rate in the developed world.

> It's as clear example of style over substance as you could ask for.

> People always criticise politicians for being all talk and no delivery but then tell us wisely what a great politician she is......

In this case style is important. The whole issue depends on the population abiding by rules for which there are no effective sanctions. Trust is paramount. 

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 skog 27 May 2020
In reply to JohnBson:

I'd like to hear answers to some of the points you list, too - it appears that many things could have been done much better, particularly testing, tracing and PPE provision.

 This one appears to be based on a misunderstanding:

> 4. Death rate per 1000 worse than England despite significantly less dense population. 

Scotland has significantly lower population density overall, but that isn't really relevant. Most people in Scotland live in the Central belt, which has very high population density. And also some large communities suffering from serious poverty.

Also,

> 6. Nike conference cover-up.

I've seen this mentioned a bit, but I'm not really clear what's supposed to have been "covered up". It looks like a missed opportunity to me, a simple failure to act in time. That's bad enough, but "cover up"?

 summo 27 May 2020
In reply to Graeme G:

So are you saying that she's just mirroring London, speaking with a different more empathic accent, but policy and results have largely been exactly the same? 

 Graeme G 27 May 2020
In reply to summo:

> So are you saying that she's just mirroring London, speaking with a different more empathic accent, but policy and results have largely been exactly the same? 


I’m saying you’re looking for a wind up.

Post edited at 09:46
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 colinakmc 27 May 2020
In reply to abr1966:

Sturgeon has performed outstandingly well in terms of communication and as someone else pointed out, she actually cares. Scotland couldn’t lock down earlier because the economic leverage to let that happen isn’t devolved (again as someone else pointed out earlier). We have a much clearer exit plan in Scotland, explained, referenced and sourced. We don’t have Trump-style daily patronising sessions. We’ve even got enough ppe apparently. So yes, it’s night and day.

However I’d still want to know why we were equally slow off the blocks with testing. Discharge from hospitals to care homes is an established practice - hospitals normally being much more dangerous places - and health and social work services did well to turbocharge that process (been trying to do that for years).

The key problem was lack of testing and maybe lack of preparedness for the sheer nastiness of the virus. Infection control against airborne particles needed to be ironclad, and it wasn’t ; the least bit of poor practice and it took off like a brush fire. We need to learn from that.

Stay safe despite your leadership, folks.

Post edited at 09:37
 snowmore 27 May 2020
In reply to JohnBson:

> 4. Death rate per 1000 worse than England despite significantly less dense population. 

I'm a bit surprised by this. Is there good evidence to back it up? I was under the impression that there are differences in how the statistics are compiled which makes direct comparisons unreliable and the excess death rate was the the better metric for comparison.

The only comparison I could find was this, which suggests the death rate in Scotland isn't worse.

https://voxeu.org/article/excess-mortality-england-european-outlier-covid-1...

Removed User 27 May 2020
In reply to rogerwebb:

No Roger, people not dying matters.

All the rest is film flam.

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 rogerwebb 27 May 2020
In reply to Removed User:

> No Roger, people not dying matters.

> All the rest is film flam.

Yes. People not dying depends on people co-operating with the rules. For that to happen they have to trust the rule givers.

Unfortunately the film-flam is important. 

Removed User 27 May 2020
In reply to rogerwebb:

> Yes. People not dying depends on people co-operating with the rules. For that to happen they have to trust the rule givers.

....deaths per capita in Scotland are roughly comparable to deaths in most other regions of the UK outside of London.

Her nice manner makes no difference, people got the message and social distanced regardless of the relative merits of the press conferences.

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 Gawyllie 27 May 2020
In reply to JohnBson:

> 7. Nicola Sturgeon failed to attend as many cobra meetings in the initial stages than Johnson. 

No but she did chair the Scottish Governments equivalent - The SG Resilience Committee from the end of January.

Post edited at 14:23
 snowmore 27 May 2020
In reply to Removed User:

> ....deaths per capita in Scotland are roughly comparable to deaths in most other regions of the UK outside of London.

I suppose that depends on how rough the comparison is. The excess mortality figures indicate that Scotland is doing a bit better than England or Wales.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18444170.coronavirus-total-number-death...


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