UKC

Open fires

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 FranC 06 Nov 2022

Hello,

We're moving to a place (rented) that has an open fire. I was pretty gutted that it wasn't a stove but apparently the open fire is too pretty to change into a stove... Anyway, this is silly optimism as I'm sure the answer is "no" but does anyone have any top tips for making them more efficient?

I've been reading about how firebacks can help - anyone have an experience of them? Do they make any difference? I'm not expecting the efficiency to rocket up but some websites suggest that they can make a bit of a difference.

And there seem to be a few videos on DIY heat exchangers - these seem to be big in America - again, any experience? My thoughts were they wouldn't do much/blow fumes around the room.

I think we'll be in downies + blankets + hot water bottles. Which is fairly standard each winter...

 mountainbagger 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

I don't have any advice but I'm interested in this thread as I have an open fire. It's small, pretty and, in my experience, next to useless as a means to heat the house!

I have friends with a stove and it seems far better (a different league!) for what appears to be the same amount of fuel.

 Slackboot 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

It's important to make sure you have your chimney swept a couple of times a year. Just for safety as much as anything.

When I was young we always had 'dogs' a sort of movable shelf that you could sit a kettle on to boil. The boiling kettle was a permanent feature of the hearth. We would often cook dinner on the fire as there were 2 shelves that could accommodate pans etc. A 'proggy' or 'clippy' mat in front of the fire and fire guard were also normal. Don't suppose any of this helps with efficiency nowadays but the sweeping bit is important.  Oh! and get a toasting fork. Save some electric by making toast on it!

 Rog Wilko 06 Nov 2022
In reply to Slackboot:

> When I was young we always had 'dogs' a sort of movable shelf that you could sit a kettle on to boil. The boiling kettle was a permanent feature of the hearth. We would often cook dinner on the fire as there were 2 shelves that could accommodate pans etc. 

I’d imagine that if some of the heat is being used to heat water or cook your tea it won’t also be available to heat the room.

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 Slackboot 06 Nov 2022
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I suppose having a hot meal inside of you makes up for that!

Just reminiscing really. Life and times of a Miner and family in the 60's.

 MG 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

You'll benefit mostly from radiant heat, so arrange seats etc so you are facing the fire and close to it. Double the distance will be about a quarter the warmth! But some new heavy weight jumpers - much cheaper than more fuel and they last forever 

https://arthurbeale.co.uk/products/arthur-beale-beerenberg-pullover?currenc...

 MG 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

You'll benefit mostly from radiant heat, so arrange seats etc so you are facing the fire and close to it. Double the distance will be about a quarter the warmth! But some new heavy weight jumpers - much cheaper than more fuel and they last forever 

https://arthurbeale.co.uk/products/arthur-beale-beerenberg-pullover?currenc...

 tspoon1981 06 Nov 2022
In reply to Slackboot:

> It's important to make sure you have your chimney swept a couple of times a year. Just for safety as much as anything.

Check your insurance too, you may have to have the chimney swept and have an up to date Chimney Cleaning Certificate as part of the small print. I currently pay £80 a year to get it done.

 Rick Graham 06 Nov 2022
In reply to tspoon1981:

> Check your insurance too, you may have to have the chimney swept and have an up to date Chimney Cleaning Certificate as part of the small print. I currently pay £80 a year to get it done.

The OP is renting.

Worth checking who is responsible for cleaning and certifying the fire.

Also the latest EPC requirements for rental  properties.

Its all for good reason,  but a lot of legislation there protecting tenants (and landlords ) , best to know your rights and responsibilities. 

 NobleStone 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

What kind of fireplace is it? Most historic fireplaces are for burning coal, not wood. These have small grates and narrow flues and simply don't give out enough heat if you use wood.

Spend your evenings watching the fire with the door closed and most of the lights off. Then you'll fall asleep by 8.30 and won't need to heat the house for an extra few hours a day, very efficient!

 Dave the Rave 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

Hi

We had an open fire until last year and it was very warm. Not as good as our multifuel but it gave off significant heat even if 60/c went up the chimney. 
Our room is 4m x 3m.

Check whether the flue has an adjuster. In my grandads council house circa 1930, there was a hook in the flue that you could open to get the draw to get the fire going, then close to allow more heat into the room. Every 70s and 80s day was t shirt weather in that house!

They had a gas poker too!

Don’t buy cheap slag! Quality coal or smokeless is much more efficient.

If you’re not warm enough, go and sit by the fire. Enjoy it.

 cwarby 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

So this is me. The stone raises the fire so the draw is greater as it's nearer the hood. The dogs and grate further does this as well as allowing air all around for a better burn. The fireback is iron, looks nice, reflects heat and also protects the stone behind. Note the right side; behind the fireback the stones been damaged when the fire would simply have been on the floor. My chimney is in the middle of the house so the house does benefit to a degree. It's also a thatch so a woodburner is not advised. Sweep it as advised by your insurers and use good hardwood.

Enjoy


OP FranC 06 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

Thanks for the replies! It's an old stone mill with a large fireplace along one wall. I've no idea how old but don't think it has any type of adjustment. There is a grate which is good as fire will be raised off the floor of the fireplace. Unfortunately it's a large room - the whole of the downstairs and there's a mezzanine above one half and double height above where the fireplace is. We'll have to burn smokeless fuel as not sure wood will get hot enough to make a difference. Still, excellent excuse to buy a jumper. I love woolly jumpers!

 Godwin 07 Nov 2022
In reply to Slackboot:

> It's important to make sure you have your chimney swept a couple of times a year. Just for safety as much as anything.

A friend of mine had a house fire and the first thing the insurance company asked was had his chimney been swept, it had.

A month or so later I was sat in a club hut, sat in front of the fire, with a couple of committee members, and mentioned this, and got pretty much laughed at, and one bloke papped on about shoving chickens up chimneys.

Later on after much wine, it was decided to clear out the lost property box, and a pair of crag hopper trousers were found, and it was decided they had reached expiry, and on the fire they went, crickey, they burnt well.

About an hour later, a person from a nearby hut came across and mentioned the chimney looked like it may be on fire. He got pretty much laughed at.

Long story short, about 90 minutes later, the fire brigade where on the roof, and it was touch and go if section of roof may have to be ripped off to get at smouldering beams.

I have never asked about the chimney sweeping situation at the hut again, but I would recommend if anyone has a chimney, it is a good idea to have a provable system of regular cleaning, and whatever you do, do not get pissed and throw Craghopper pants on the fire. 

 jkarran 07 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

> Thanks for the replies! It's an old stone mill with a large fireplace along one wall. I've no idea how old but don't think it has any type of adjustment.

No central heating?

Sounds like that's just going to be a cold space with radiant heat from the fire in the vicinity of it. I quite like that type of heat but it does mean you live round the fire or in other warmer bits of the house. In my experience, even small open fires burning coal or turf can pump out a lot of radiant heat and will heat the space quite well as the chimney breast heats up. Never really lived with one burning wood. No idea about a big open castle style fire in a grate with a huge open chimney but I suspect you need fuel to match the size of it if you want to really heat the building fabric. A reflective fire back probably would help at least balance the loss a fire guard will create.

jk

 Brown 07 Nov 2022
In reply to jkarran:

People have been conflating power and efficiency in this thread which I think is causing confusion.

Having grown up in a house heated exclusively by open wood fired I have the following comment.

If you have plenty of wood you can warm huge old houses with open wood fires. You burn tonnes of wood but if you keep an open fire raging you get massive power output. As suggested up thread, this is also radiant heat which means you need a line of sight to the fire. You get good at shouting at the dog for sitting in the way.

The efficiency of the fire may be poor compared to a wood burner but that's not a problem if you have lots and lots of fuel. (You also have to keep standing up to add logs)

 stubbed 07 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

This doesn't answer your question but having grown up in an old farmhouse which required a solid fuel boiler, a stove & an open fire in different parts of the house to warm it & heat water, I love having heating that can switch on and off without having to lay fires, clear them out, carry fuel in from outside and dust all the time. I realise I am out of sync with most of UKC but it's so much easier and warmer, frankly. (nb. we have the heating set to 18 degrees and only morning / evening it's not like we have it like an oven).

 Gazmataz 07 Nov 2022
In reply to Rog Wilko:

If it's above the fire it's more likely using heat that is just escaping up the chimney and having a very low net effect on the temperature of the room

 Toerag 07 Nov 2022
In reply to cwarby:

> The dogs and grate further does this as well as allowing air all around for a better burn.

Actually, wood should be burnt on a flat surface, ideally of its own ash.

 Ridge 07 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

> You'll benefit mostly from radiant heat, so arrange seats etc so you are facing the fire and close to it. Double the distance will be about a quarter the warmth! But some new heavy weight jumpers - much cheaper than more fuel and they last forever 

£145 for a jumper???

 MG 07 Nov 2022
In reply to Ridge:

> £145 for a jumper???

It was £100 until last year but...

How much do you spend on say a softshell, or even a shirt?  

https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/c/mens/jackets/softshell-jackets.html

Post edited at 11:26
 CantClimbTom 07 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

Phah... Amateurs. Just like you can't have expensive watches (because they are "timepieces"), you don't get expensive jumpers (they are "casual knitwear"). If you have more money than sense...  You can spend a LOT more than £145

https://shop.edeandravenscroft.com/collections/casual-knitwear

 Sam W 07 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

I've been told that when coal was cheap, losing heat up the chimney was part of the plan as it meant the stone/brick work all the way up the chimney was heated, transferring warmth through the house.  I guess with a longish chimney it was actually pretty cool by the time it exited the pot.

It's an interesting thought, I've never been able to afford enough fuel for our open fire to test the theory

 mutt 07 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

> It was £100 until last year but...

> How much do you spend on say a softshell, or even a shirt?  

So my smart meter informs me that I spend just under 4 quid heating my house by 2 degrees this morning. When the temperature drops another 10degrees it going to cost over 30 quid every day. I'd suggest then that 145 for a really warm jumper is good value.

Moving around is free though. A few pull ups, press ups and star jumps will make you warm and stronger.

 Maggot 07 Nov 2022
In reply to MG:

Get yourself a Gansey, hand-knitted by Yorkshire women in cottages along the Whitby coast.

 NobleStone 07 Nov 2022
In reply to jkarran:

The big open chimneys you're thinking of are called inglenooks and they're not really designed to have gigantic fires in them. Most nowadays have been retrofitted with hoods (like the photo above) or stoves.

The way they were originally used would be to have a relatively small fire on the hearth burning more or less all day. The inglenook itself could be treated like a small room. They often featured their own window, built in seating and a bread oven. You could sit in it to do the cooking or keep warm. One of my siblings lived in a seventeenth century house where the inglenook had been restored to this state. It's undoubtedly one of the most inefficient ways of heating a house but if you have free wood then it's lovely, and much more comforting than a stove.

 Toerag 07 Nov 2022
In reply to Maggot:

> Get yourself a Gansey, hand-knitted by Yorkshire women in cottages along the Whitby coast.

Or better still, get yourself a Guernsey which is what Gansey's are copied from.  As someone who wears a Guernsey daily I wouldn't say they're particularly warm compared to some chunkier jumpers, but they are excellent in general.

 subtle 07 Nov 2022
In reply to FranC:

Other way to look at it is if your not planning on using the fireplace everyday then stick a flue pig up the chimney to stop heat loss; just remember to remove it when you want to have a fire.

Instead of £145 for a jumper better spend £10 on a warm hat, then couple of cheap jumpers would suffice.

Good luck with the new place, sounds great


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