UKC

Saw this last night and it’s on iplayer. What a treat, themes to the best films from my childhood and more recently. He is truly one of the great composers.

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Toby_W:

Really, what, up there with the three Bs, Wolfi and Wagner?

In reply to felt:

I feel I need to put this in perspective in that while my family is talented and musical... i am not but, yes I think so, when you look at his work over the last four decades.
But, even if you disagree, I think it’s worth a watch if you’re a up for a trip down memorie lane of some great childhood films.

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Toby_W:

They all sound a bit the same to me. But then I suppose so do the Brandenburg concertos.

In reply to Pedro50:

I’m clearly fighting a lost cause and have no doubt been overcome by Christmas nostalgia.

Happy Christmas.

Toby

In reply to felt:



Yes, I think he really is up there somewhere, if you can somehow separate them in your head from the films and just listen to them. Not just talking about the obvious Star Wars/Jaws/Raiders etc, which are magnificent, but also the wider variety of other music for less "Blockbustery" films.

Mind you, I've always been gobsmacked by the ability of any orchestral composer to somehow have all that inside their head and know how it will sounds when all the pieces are put together.

In reply to felt:


Tchaikovsky wipes the floor with that lot.

In reply to Toby_W:

I always had a soft spot for John Williams as a kid in the 70s,probably because one of his instrumentals was played on Take Hart with Tony Hart.

In reply to felt:

I like a lot of classical music though I tend more toward opera then most UKC ers : so is that why I'm struggling to name a third B?
First two are easy but after that there seem to be several in with a shout.....

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Yes I wondered. Bruch, Bruchner, Brahms, John Barry. Who Knows?

In reply to Pedro50:

'The Three Bs' are Brahms, Beethoven and Bach. Other 'Bs' are available

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Yes, Brahms. Certainly not Bruch; Bruckner is something of a one-idea man to me.

In reply to Welsh Kate:

Thanks!

In reply to Welsh Kate:

The two Bs are easy, the third B is the difficult one. I think some might be inclined towards Bruckner rather than Brahms ...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

My point exactly.
Felt's list implies that the top five would include 3 B s and I would rather see George F. Handel and Frederick F. Chopin up there. Brahms only gets there by virtue of the fact that his name makes a trio, and people love threesomes, whether at cards, pebbles, furniture, posh food served on a slate, or mountain challenges.
And what's Wagner done on grit? Unless he actually jumped off the belay ledge on Valkyrie.....

In reply to Toby_W:
John Williams is a very fine and competent composer of film music - that is, music for Hollywood blockbusters. But his scores are not deeply satisfying works of art in the way that the scores of the great composers are. He's a clever orchestrator, but his style is derivative, especially, of Strauss (Richard) and Mahler. If you want to hear real orchestral and symphonic virtuosity, have a listen to Richard Strauss's 'An Alpine Symphony'. It'll blow you away. Richard Strauss, by the way, wrote the music that Stanley Kubrick used nearly a century later in his '2001, A Space Odyssey' (the Einleitung from 'Also Sprach Zarathustra').

In reply to Pedro50:

er, not at all? For one thing the forces involved are unique to each concerto.

In reply to Removed Userena sharples:


That was my point essentially

In reply to Ratfeeder:

Thank you.

Toby

In reply to Ratfeeder:

The alpine symphony has some lovely themes ... which occasionally emerge from the chaos of the icefall

And through this whole discussion I'm incredulous that no-one has mentioned the greatness of our own British greats - Elgar, V Williams and Delius ?

In reply to Toby_W:

I think the pieces now stand alone, but they also fitted and without doubt enhanced the movies. That takes a different kind of talent to simply writing a great tune.

In reply to summo:

Can I recommend you and Toby explore some "proper" classical music. JW writes stirring film scores but they're no more than that.

Listen to the opening bars of Mahler's Symphony no 2, The Resurrection. Then give the fifth movement your complete attention. You'll never compare JW to the greats again.

In reply to Ratfeeder:

In the same vein compare holsts the planet's to Williams themes for star wars. He is brilliant at what he does though

In reply to alasdair19:

Surprised no one has mentioned mr Mozart yet!

In reply to JimR:

Wolfi?

John Williams writes movie soundtracks, he does it very well.

They perform a function, and perform it very well.

In the same way a Defender is quite handy in the shit, but bollocks on a track day. If you feel the need to put him down and wiffle on about how superior Purcell is, then you might be missing the point....

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:
So far as I can see, no one on this thread has tried to put John Williams down, or to deny that he is superb at what he does. I'd go as far as to say that JW is a serious contender for the title of 'greatest film-composer of all time', though there are others in the running, like Bernard Williams and Erich Korngold (who was a great influence on JW).

An evaluative comparison with 'the great' composers was made by the OP. Was the OP 'missing the point'? Or is it only other posters who wish to qualify that evaluation who are missing it? In any case it is an interesting comparison, since JW was avowedly influenced by certain composers, particularly of the late romantic tradition, and their influence can clearly be heard in his music. But I'm pretty sure JW himself would be the first to denounce any claim to be in the same league as the composers he makes free use of.

In reply to alasdair19:


Yes indeed, JW admitted that for Star Wars he virtually steals from The Planets - especially the march rhythms from 'Mars'; but the Star Wars music is a pale imitation of Holst's electrifying original.

Btw in my last post above I meant to write 'Bernard Herrmann' instead of 'Bernard Williams'. Getting my film composers mixed up with my academic philosophers, tut tut.

In reply to Tom Valentine:
Beatles ?

In reply to Wimlands:


Bieber.

In reply to mountainbagger:
Only partly joking.... I'm not knowingly aware of any Brahms music.

Am I a complete and utter philistine?
Can someone recommend a place to start?

In reply to Wimlands:

I am so sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were a philistine. I just thought it was funny to think that Justin Bieber could be the third B in that poster's three Bs

To be honest I find Brahms a bit dull (perhaps it is I who is the philistine). I'm a lapsed clarinetist, so I feel I should suggest his Clarinet Quintet. I liked parts of his German Requiem too.

But, his most popular works include his Hungarian Dances (not dull I hasten to add!), Brahms Lullaby and Piano Concerto No.1. Maybe start with those

In reply to Toby_W:

His music is OKish but I hope you're not expecting us to accept that Star Wars was a decent film

In reply to mountainbagger:
No need for apologies at all, thank you for the recomendations, I'll check the clarinet one out and report back....

I know what Bach sounds like, let's face it you only have to listen to R3 for 30 minutes and they will play him, and certainly would recognise 7 or 8 of Beethovens tunes. But genuinely wouldn't know Brahms....

Williams? Not for me. Don't get it at all. Showing what a philistine I am again.

In reply to Wimlands:

If someone hums you the first line of Brahms' lullaby, you will know it...

In reply to Welsh Kate:


Actually 'The Three Bs' was originally coined by Peter Cornelius in 1854 and referred to Bach, Beethoven and Berlioz. It was only later in the century that Hans von Bulow adapted the phrase and replaced Berlioz with Brahms, thus making it clear which side he was on in the bitter rivalry between supporters of Wagner and those of Brahms which existed at the time.

In reply to Tom Valentine:
You're right. Just checked it out and it certainly sounds familiar....once is enough though

In reply to Wimlands:

Piano Concerto No. 2/Gilels

In reply to Ratfeeder:

Re 3 Bs, interesting, thanks