UKC

/ Putin

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aln - on 05 Apr 2018

Is he just a bad guy who's crazy and wants to take over the world? Seems unlikely. What's his motivation? 

1
Darren Jackson - on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

He wants to dominate the global supply of crackers, and have his image embossed on them. He'll only be content with Putin on the Ritz. 

1
elsewhere on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

He wants the territory of the Soviet Union back with Russia and Russians in control. A bit of an ethnic nationalist. 

1
Big Ger - on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

Wonderful bloke,  a  man proud of his country and it's socialist state.

What's your beef with  him?

Post edited at 09:50
8
aln - on 05 Apr 2018
Big Ger - on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

I bet you had that bookmarked.

 

2
aln - on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to Big Ger:

I don't know what bookmarked means. 

8
Bellie on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

4 part series starts on bbc4 tonight... Putin, Russia and the West.

Should be interesting.

Probably been on before.

 

ian caton on 05 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

I have been led to believe he thought about becoming a taxi driver after the fall of the wall.

The man is a gangster. Read Politkovskaya.

 

Bob Kemp - on 06 Apr 2018
In reply to Big Ger:

Exactly what kind of state Russia can best be described as is still a matter of debate but it certainly isn’t socialism.  Proto-fascist or moderate fascist maybe. Try this: 

https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/01/23/putins-russia-a-moderate-fascist-state/

 

 

Post edited at 07:38
aln - on 12 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

Why doesn't he just want to get along with everyone? Make his own phones or Facebook or something, then everyone would love him

 

1
pavelk - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to Bob Kemp:

Facism is just another face of socialism

11
Neil Williams - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

> Is he just a bad guy who's crazy and wants to take over the world? Seems unlikely. What's his motivation? 

Votes/popularity/lack of a revolution (well, it is Russia).  The Russian public like a strong sounding President.

MargieB - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

 

Duty of UK government to act decisively and quickly in times of aggression. Government is voted in by us to take that lead position and we entrust them with that grave responsibility.

Versus convention of consulting Parliament on issues of deployment in none urgent times.

 

Discuss in contemporary context.

 

 

2
cb294 - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to pavelk:

What a load of rubbish, and even if it were true, in what way would Putin qualify as a socialist?

A more interesting point would be to try and understand why the ideals and principles of Western European liberal democracy are not particularly attractive for rather large sections of society in essentially all post communist states (percentages varying between the various states of course), while the same people/parties are more than happy to take the Western European money, see e.g. PIS in Poland, Fidesz in Hungary, and the AfD in the former GDR.

The situation in Russia/CCCP, being the former dominant player will be the same but more extreme: Putin is clearly seen favourably by most Russian voters, and would also have won had he stuck to Western electoral standards (that he did not forms part of his strongman appeal). 

CB

d_b on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

His motivation is ultimate funk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGzAKP_HuM

That and staying in power, same as most leaders.

1
David Cohen - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to the discussion in general:

One of the more troubling aspects of Putin's rule is that he has hollowed out the structures behind him creating a political vacuum and when this collapses (as all tend to do) the results could be catastrophic.

I see Putin as the product of a poorly educated KGB clone, a toxic blend of authoritarianism, nationalism and hubris.

And as for him being a Colonel, yes, that's true but don't compare a 1980's KGB Colonel as having the same level of import as a Col in the British Army.

defaid - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

On a horse? Tame. This is what does it for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TXBxxPAtb0

If it's a choice between socialists, fascists, psychotic fantasists or ineffectual self-gratifiers, I'm voting for the bear-back rider.

MargieB - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

I also see Putin as  a leader who failed to take an opportunity to create institutions of accountability and created instead a top heavy unaccountable kleptocracy. The irony is Nemstov, as I read, was his friend and was engaging Putin in discussion of a  process of change and then Nemstov got murdered in the cultural climate that Putin himself created of intolerance and aggression. That left a Putin essentially having no other direction than to be the biggest wolf in the wolf pack or" the wolves devour you" situation. Putin probably would have still won an election on reputable economic grounds  but who knows? There were no opportunities allowed - Has Putin created a  problem internally  which may be fuelling a Putin paranoia that tries to engage/distract attention to foreign affairs??. No matter, we seem caught up in his world view and it is not compatible with international norms.

Post edited at 16:01
David Cohen - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to MargieB:

It is not often you seek the words Putin and reputable economic grounds in the same sentence.

I don't think Putin created the kleptocracy but he mould it to his own ends.

Do I think that he is some malign genius, no: I see him much like Saddam Hussein, angry, powerful, unstable idiot and his fall from power will be very dangerous.

pavelk - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to cb294:

> What a load of rubbish, and even if it were true, in what way would Putin qualify as a socialist?

State control or ownership of relevant industry, price regulation, state control of important banks.

 

> A more interesting point would be to try and understand why the ideals and principles of Western European liberal democracy are not particularly attractive for rather large sections of society in essentially all post communist states (percentages varying between the various states of course), while the same people/parties are more than happy to take the Western European money, see e.g. PIS in Poland, Fidesz in Hungary, and the AfD in the former GDR.

Which ideas and principles?

 

Pete Pozman - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

A small man with big muscles that he wants everyone to admire 

Trump on the other hand is a big man with no muscles, no hair and no brains. But for no obvious reason we still have to admire him. 

1
bouldery bits - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

Putin wants what he perceives as best for Putin.

Tbh, bouldery_bits wants what he perceives as best for bouldery_bits.

 

 

Post edited at 22:40
MargieB - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to David Cohen:

Well, I meant a "reputation" in the minds of Russian people for bringing Russia out of a starvation economic situation of 80s and 90s that obviously gave him appeal at the start and still persists because he isn't wholly unpopular in Russia itself - but again it is hard to judge that popularity in such a limited election of 2018. I have no idea how popular he is in Russia. But it is our  UK concern  as to his actions outside of Russia.

aln - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to bouldery bits:

Does bouldery_bits think WW3 would be best for bouldery_bits? 

1
bouldery bits - on 13 Apr 2018
In reply to aln:

> Does bouldery_bits think WW3 would be best for bouldery_bits? 

Bouldery_bits would probably have some stories to tell. Bouldery_bits knows that his opinion expressed on a climbing forum is unlikely to prevent any kind of war.

 

Frankly, the best I can do on here is help someone choose a coat or recommend a pub or something. 

Columbia753 - on 14 Apr 2018
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Very good, short and witty. 


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