UKC

/ Roaming charges coming back?

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Toby_W on 06 Mar 2018
Timmd on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Toby_W:

There's going to be a loads of things like this following Brexit. Obvious really.  

2
baron - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Toby_W:

Does this mean I'll no longer have to listen to Brits jabbering away on continental coaches, ski gondolas and on the pistes?

5
Andy Gamisou - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> Does this mean I'll no longer have to listen to Brits jabbering away on continental coaches, ski gondolas

Probably.

> and on the pistes?

Nah - they'll be that far gone that they'll forget about roaming charges and continue jabbering, albeit with a bit of speech sluring.

 

1
stevieb - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

A true patriotic Brit won’t be having any holidays in the EU after brexit. They’ll be going to proper English speaking places, like USA or Australia or Margate. 

3
Jenny C on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Timmd:

Yep this removal of roaming charges is just another example of the EU interfering in the rights of UK citizens. Luckily  (?) in 1 years time we will  take back control....  

2
baron - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Jenny C:

Three have promised to keep to the current agreement no matter what happens after Brexit so as long as you're on their network you'll be fine.

Other companies might feel the need to come to a similar arramgement.

5
wilkie14c - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Toby_W:

one of the main reasons for going on holiday  is to get away from people who ring me

1
john arran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

SPECIAL OFFER! In return for a small new roaming charge, we're now offering our customers the CHOICE of a cheaper domestic monthly package. Commercial suicide? or slippery slope back door to reintroduction of charges?

> Three have promised to keep to the current agreement no matter what happens after Brexit so as long as you're on their network you'll be fine.

If only it were that simple. Here's an article that suggests otherwise: https://news.sky.com/story/roaming-charges-may-be-back-after-brexit-11279406

 

1
Toby_W on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to wilkie14c:

I like your thinking but when I first got my phone my friend said he couldn't call me on it, I said it was switched off, you don't quite understand the concept of mobile phones do you Toby?  He says.  Oh I think I do I say, it's so I can call people when I need to, I can't think of anything worse than people being able to call me whenever they want!!

Cheers

Toby

3
baron - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to john arran:

An interesting article.

And as a slightly different view -

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/20/mobile-phone-roaming-charges-banned-europe-15-june-brexit

Three offers free roaming to countries outside of the EU and will probably continue to do so.

Can other companies afford not to follow suit?

No doubt many of them would like to see roaming charges come back but will the UK government allow it?

 

yorkshire_lad2 on 07 Mar 2018

Yup, I bet the mobile cos will be putting roaming charges back on in April 2019, as soon as they're not prevented from doing so by EU legislation.

Same as having to pay for health care in the EU: no more EHIC card.

There'll be tears before bedtime when all those people who voted for Brexit realize their mobile phone bills and health insurance costs increase for their two week trip to Tenerife after April 2019.

john arran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> Three offers free roaming to countries outside of the EU and will probably continue to do so.

> Can other companies afford not to follow suit?

They don't seem to be queueing up to do so right now. It clearly depends on bilateral reciprocal agreements, which of course will only be possible where the advantages are similar on both sides. Hardly a recipe for the reduction of roaming charges worldwide.

> No doubt many of them would like to see roaming charges come back but will the UK government allow it?

Well if we're no longer in the EU it will automatically be allowed unless the UK government actively actively votes to ban it in parliament, and I don't see any indication that such a move has ever been considered before for overseas roaming to any country, except of course within the agreement we have now with our other EU members.

2
jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> Three have promised to keep to the current agreement no matter what happens after Brexit so as long as you're on their network you'll be fine. Other companies might feel the need to come to a similar arramgement.

EU legislation forced them to do what commercial and domestic regulatory pressure never had. Gradual reversion to the old norm seems most likely to me. Still... blue passports.

jk

Post edited at 10:09
3
baron - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to john arran:

You only need one company to keep its free roaming to avoid any charges.

If you choose to go with another company then that's your choice.

1
baron - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to jkarran:

And here's why many of us no longer try to contribute to any Brexit type thread.

I really should have known better.

 

Post edited at 10:20
9
Ian W - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to jkarran:

> EU legislation forced them to do what commercial and domestic regulatory pressure never had. Gradual reversion to the old norm seems most likely to me. Still... blue passports.

> jk

Not sure this will be the case; there are too many alternatives. In the UAE last year (not part of the roaming agreement with 3), I could just connect to the hotel wifi and make calls via messenger etc. I could do that in spain if i wished, so the only disadvantage of roaming charges  being reintroduced would be when I cant get to a place with wifi. And as posted upthread, there are many non EU countries where roaming charges do not apply; I cant see how they would be affected by us leaving the EU*. Imho, roaming charges or the lack of them is no longer a legal issue, but a commercial one.

* which is still an idiotic thing to do. 

 

 

jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> And here's why many of us no longer try to contribute to any Brexit type thread.

Seriously, being confronted by the trade-offs brexit requires, the give *and* the take? Sorry to burst your bubble.

jk

3
jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Ian W:

It was a commercial issue long before it was a legal issue yet in that environment roaming charges were seen to be commercially advantageous. Perhaps you're right, changing technology and expectations have changed that calculation but I'm doubtful. Most people use their time and data at home, roaming charges which hit some only occasionally allow the headline prices on contracts to be held down for all which looks appealing until of course you get the £30 top up bill because you used sat-nav a couple of times in France.

jk

1
john arran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> You only need one company to keep its free roaming to avoid any charges.

> If you choose to go with another company then that's your choice.

Of course, but what you're saying is 'leave it to the market', a strategy that showed a woeful record of responsible roaming charges within the EU before it was compelled to stop by EU legislation, having seen precious little intervention by way of UK legislation. Where are the grounds for optimism now all of a sudden? More wishful thinking?

2
stevieb - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to jkarran:

Always remember these;

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/11/13-steps-turn-leave-voters-against-brexit

You and I may have decided that there were too many clear advantages to remaining in the EU but it is/was not an open and shut case. There are many genuine problems with the EU, we just decided they were heavily out-weighed. Other people decided that from their standpoint, they were not.

MG - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> And here's why many of us no longer try to contribute to any Brexit type thread.

Why? In the scheme of things roaming charges are a small matter, I agree. But why do you find discussing them off-putting? They are one of many tangible effects.of Brexit. Pretending it's not happening doesn't change reality.

1
jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to stevieb:

Sensible points but baron and I have been around this a hundred times, neither of us is going to sway the other so I see no point in playing games, I'd rather speak plainly. Roaming charges were a small but real pain in the ass for nearly everyone which took EU legislation to solve, their return in some form post brexit is likely so providers can compete harder on domestic deals. Not the end of the world, just another thing to add to the 'price worth paying' pile.

jk

1
MarkJH - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to jkarran:

> It was a commercial issue long before it was a legal issue yet in that environment roaming charges were seen to be commercially advantageous. Perhaps you're right, changing technology and expectations have changed that calculation but I'm doubtful. Most people use their time and data at home, roaming charges which hit some only occasionally allow the headline prices on contracts to be held down for all which looks appealing until of course you get the £30 top up bill because you used sat-nav a couple of times in France.

As others have said, roaming charges, don't apply in many countries that are not EU, and none of these are optional extras to the contract.  I suspect that once such an agreement is in place, it is mutually advantageous to both the parties, and probably precludes a unilateral introduction of charges.  I would be extremely surprised if leaving the EU lead to a reintroduction of charges.

1
thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Toby_W:

So it looks like I may no longer going to have to pay for others to have cheap phone calls when they go abroad.  Woe is me!  How will I ever cope?

Post edited at 11:23
7
baron - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to jkarran:

It's not the discussion I object to it's the need to resort to things like 'blue passports'.

 

Bulls Crack - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to stevieb:

> A true patriotic Brit won’t be having any holidays in the EU after brexit. They’ll be going to proper English speaking places, like USA or Australia or Margate. 


But not Wales, N Ireland  or Scotland presumably?

Sir Chasm - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> It's not the discussion I object to it's the need to resort to things like 'blue passports'.

But blue passports are just shorthand for the long list of improvements that brexit will bring, feel free to substitute something else from the list.

3
jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> It's not the discussion I object to it's the need to resort to things like 'blue passports'.

Flippant shorthand for nothing of any value we didn't already have. Do feel free to counter with examples of more useful things I gain by leaving, I'm not going to be upset if you do.

jk

Post edited at 11:44
thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Sir Chasm:

Cheaper phone charges/more options for consumers due to phone companies no longer being legally required to subsidise the cost of holidays/business trips in Europe.

1
Andy Hardy on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Sir Chasm:

> But blue passports are just about the entirety of improvements that brexit will bring, feel free to add something else to the list (if you can find any).

FTFY ;)

Post edited at 11:50
2
Sir Chasm - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Cheaper phone charges/more options for consumers due to phone companies no longer being legally required to subsidise the cost of holidays/business trips in Europe.

Poe's law strikes again.

1
Neil Williams - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

You have incredible faith if you don't think they'll just keep the money and run.

thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

The market is highly competitive.  It's not about them being nice.  The EU legislation was not about being nice either, it was about standardisation to encourage trade within the EU as opposed to with the rest of the world.

stevieb - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> But not Wales, N Ireland  or Scotland presumably?


Well, clearly not the Welsh speaking bit of Wales. But I've been to Northern Ireland. I reckon it's one of the few places with more union jacks than a UKIP rally, A trip to Bushmills should be just fine.

john arran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

It was just as highly competitive before the regulation came in last year, and huge numbers of people got caught out and stung for roaming charges that bore little or no relation to the cost of that service provision. With apparently little enthusiasm from HM gov to respond to consumer concerns over those of corporations.

krikoman - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Jenny C:

> Yep this removal of roaming charges is just another example of the EU interfering in the rights of UK citizens. Luckily  (?) in 1 years time we will  take back control....  


Agree,  Dan Hannan on the radio yesterday complaining about laws enforcing child seats in cars up to a certain age. Didin't seem to enter his head this might be a good thing.

"Taking back control" only means we either miss out of social protections or have to cover them ourselves. Either that or we're on our way back to the dark ages.

 

krikoman - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to MG:

> Why? In the scheme of things roaming charges are a small matter, I agree. But why do you find discussing them off-putting? They are one of many tangible effects.of Brexit. Pretending it's not happening doesn't change reality.

 

According to Mr. Hannan, it's the little things which made people vote leave, it had very little to do with immigration, but about all the silly little laws and regulations we have to follow!!.

He didn't seem to understand that we'll still need to follow the EU regulations to export goods to the EU or that while we were in the EU we had some input to the regulations in the first place. I was amazed at his comments.

It's here if anyone fancies 15 minutes of shouting at the radio.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tds6v

 

Dave Garnett - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> So it looks like I may no longer going to have to pay for others to have cheap phone calls when they go abroad.  Woe is me!  How will I ever cope?

It sounds as if you don't care much about the colour of passports if you don't have one.  

 

1
thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to Dave Garnett:

Lol!  I already had a blue passport, kind of liked having two different colours.

thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

Ever considered that the requirements may well be excessive and costly to consumers?

3
thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

I'm amazed at your comments.  A legal requirement to use a particular type of car seat will be necessary to export goods to the EU!?

1
krikoman - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> I'm amazed at your comments.  A legal requirement to use a particular type of car seat will be necessary to export goods to the EU!?


Are you sure you can read?

thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

"Agree,  Dan Hannan on the radio yesterday complaining about laws enforcing child seats in cars up to a certain age. Didin't seem to enter his head this might be a good thing."

You weren't talking about child seats in cars?

3
krikoman - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Ever considered that the requirements may well be excessive and costly to consumers?

Ever considered they might, just might of course, be the result of comprehensive, stringent and meticulous testing, which would save the lives of many children.

We could always do with child seats of course, my kids don't need them any more so why should I care?

Or we could do a lot of our own testing and investigative work and then come up with the same results and recommendations ourselves. Sounds like we'll save a load of money doing this that way.

MG - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to baron:

> It's not the discussion I object to it's the need to resort to things like 'blue passports'.

I agree it's ridiculous.  However blue passports is what seems to exercise brexiteers.  The press and MPs repeatedly refer to them as an advantage of leaving.  If you find this ridiculous, you are on the wrong side.

The New NickB - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

They are not required to subsidise EU call charges, they are just required to make reasonable charges, that reflect the actual cost.

jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Ever considered that the requirements may well be excessive and costly to consumers?

The requirements for a child's safety car seat to be safe might be too expensive or excessive (!) for customers? No, no I had never considered that. The same thought never crossed my mind when buying medicine or meat or drinking water or an airline ticket either... some prices are worth paying even when it's not easy to find the resources.

jk

thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

> We could always do with child seats of course, my kids don't need them any more so why should I care?

Eh?

> Or we could do a lot of our own testing and investigative work and then come up with the same results and recommendations ourselves. Sounds like we'll save a load of money doing this that way.

Is everything about saving money for the government?  We might well, on the same tests, decide on different recommendations.  We might find that the tests are flawed.  Known facts change over time, so they might have been right when introduced and wrong now.  Your faith in their correctness is religious in its certainty.

2
jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

> Or we could do a lot of our own testing and investigative work and then come up with the same results and recommendations ourselves. Sounds like we'll save a load of money doing this that way.

Better, we could come up with very similar but slightly different standards so producer's have to double certify everything or we'll have to manufacture and for those who travel abroad with children, own duplicates. Still... standards are too expensive right!

jk

Post edited at 13:39
jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Is everything about saving money for the government?  We might well, on the same tests, decide on different recommendations.  We might find that the tests are flawed.  Known facts change over time, so they might have been right when introduced and wrong now.  Your faith in their correctness is religious in its certainty.

You don't need faith in the 'correctness' of internationally agreed standards to understand their value you wally.

jk

1
thomasadixon - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to jkarran:

We're talking about a legal requirement to have a child in a certain seat up to a certain age, not manufacturing standards, you wally!

> Still... standards are too expensive right!

Childish, as usual, especially given that it's krikoman who talked about saving money and me who said not everything's about that.  I'm out.

4
Ian W - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> So it looks like I may no longer going to have to pay for others to have cheap phone calls when they go abroad.  Woe is me!  How will I ever cope?

I dont think you ever did have to pay; I've been with the same provider for years and years, and what i pay them has hardly moved. Never less than £16 / mo, never more than £21 / mo. Currently £20, and they had freebie roaming in many countries long before it was a requirement. I've certainly not noticed any change in my tariff.

jkarran - on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> We're talking about a legal requirement to have a child in a certain seat up to a certain age, not manufacturing standards, you wally!

We're talking about both, largely as a result of your ambiguous initial comment on the topic.

> Childish, as usual, especially given that it's krikoman who talked about saving money and me who said not everything's about that.  I'm out.

Ok, Just so we're back on the same page: you're simultaneously arguing the EU should butt out of legislating when and where children should be required to use supplemental child seats because that's too excessive and expensive while you're also arguing the UK should be free to create new more stringent safety standards because money isn't everything and EU standards might not be correct?

jk

Post edited at 14:10
1
wercat on 07 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

than nasty EU commission looked into car prices across Europe as well, at a time when people in Britain were complaining about high prices here.

 

You really have to remember all the bad stuff they get up to, like the impovements to roads in the Highlands, roads that Brexiteers allege go nowhere, destinations like the Isle of Skye.

krikoman - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

>  so they might have been right when introduced and wrong now.  Your faith in their correctness is religious in its certainty.

 

But at the moment their correctness is also our correctness, we have some input into the standards themselves. In the future we're still going to need to sell to Europe, therefore, we'll still have to produce goods to, and this time it is, their standards. So what have we gained?

Of course this isn't just Europe now either, we're selling to the rest of the worlds, only every one outside of Europe has their own standard, so if there's already a market in that place for European goods we either have to match that standard anyway, or invent a completely new standard, with all the paperwork and testing that goes with it.

It's not about religion it's about practicalities, and the futility of doing the same thing, but slightly different, numerous times.

Andy Hardy on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

> But at the moment their correctness is also our correctness, we have some input into the standards themselves. In the future we're still going to need to sell to Europe, therefore, we'll still have to produce goods to, and this time it is, their standards. So what have we gained?

Either "control" or "fcukall" depending on how you voted.

jethro kiernan - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to Toby_W:

As someone who travels for work in the EU, this made a huge differnce to me, before June 02 would sting me with huge bills every month, having to return a work related call for an extended discusion was painfull.

Also 02 still charge me international to call Holland from the UK which seems against the princable of the roaming charge because this still puts a block on doing business within Europe. This also makes me doubt their commitment not to role things back post Brexit.

thomasadixon - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

> But at the moment their correctness is also our correctness, we have some input into the standards themselves. In the future we're still going to need to sell to Europe, therefore, we'll still have to produce goods to, and this time it is, their standards. So what have we gained?

No, their "correctness" is just the current law as it stands.  It's not correct or incorrect, which is the whole point.  I replied to your comment about law requiring certain seats to be used by people in the UK, and in that context selling abroad is utterly irrelevant.  Re standards generally the answer is obvious and you've heard it a thousand times I'm sure, we get to set our own standards *within the UK*.  Most business done here does not involve the EU.

> Of course this isn't just Europe now either, we're selling to the rest of the worlds, only every one outside of Europe has their own standard, so if there's already a market in that place for European goods we either have to match that standard anyway, or invent a completely new standard, with all the paperwork and testing that goes with it.

The market in that place will not be a market for European goods specifically, it's a market for goods that match the local standards.  If we want to export we *already* have to comply with whatever the local standards are around the world.  Nothing has changed in that respect.

> It's not about religion it's about practicalities, and the futility of doing the same thing, but slightly different, numerous times.

Doing the same thing but slightly different is how we progress, and how we learn.  Doing something one way and only one way and not even considering the possibility that we might be doing it wrong is how we stagnate.  Being utterly certain that the EU has made the right decision is mental.

jkarran - I'm pretty sure that you're deliberately misrepresenting what I've said and you just want a bit of a spat.  Can't be bothered.

john arran - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Re standards generally the answer is obvious and you've heard it a thousand times I'm sure, we get to set our own standards *within the UK*.  Most business done here does not involve the EU.

As long as it's only UK children that get maimed and killed by our relaxing of important safety standards, that's alright with you?

> Doing the same thing but slightly different is how we progress, and how we learn.  Doing something one way and only one way and not even considering the possibility that we might be doing it wrong is how we stagnate.  Being utterly certain that the EU has made the right decision is mental.

A loaded paragraph if ever there was one! Did it never occur to you that every one of the EU standards has had input from UK in developing it, often actually having originated as a British Standard and then being adopted more widely? Being utterly certain that any standard is perfect and should be fixed for all time would be mental, which is why all standards are reviewed and updated when necessary. I presume your new UK standard wouldn't be set in stone either.

I'm struggling to see a difference here. If an EU standard isn't appropriate, I'm sure there are due processes by which the UK can seek to have it reviewed, and I haven't heard of a single EU standard that the UK has actively opposed.

 

krikoman - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to Andy Hardy:

> Either "control" or "fcukall" depending on how you voted.

But we haven't gained control for anything we export, we still have to produce stuff to their standards and if they change we have to change too.

We may have control of some other parts of our country, but manufacturing isn't free to do what they like and never will be.

Post edited at 11:00
john arran - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

We'll gain the really useful 'control' of being able to manufacture and sell substandard goods within the UK.

Race to the bottom, anyone?

1
krikoman - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> The market in that place will not be a market for European goods specifically, it's a market for goods that match the local standards.  If we want to export we *already* have to comply with whatever the local standards are around the world.  Nothing has changed in that respect.

Your probably right with the first sentence.

The difference being any country in the EU would have to produce goods to the "EU" standard. That standard, would be accepted by the importing country as sufficient.

Once we've left we would have to go through some form of certification, up until now we've been using the EU standard, that will no longer exist for us, so we'll have to do our own. That will be a cost to us.

As someone else has posted many of the EU standards evolved, or were directly copied, from British Standards, so it's not as though some draconian standards have been forced upon us. We invented them!

Andy Hardy on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

You're leaning on an open door there pal, I'd say we will have gained fcukall when we leave, however you have to acknowledge the power of the emotive "take control" trope. It worked

1
Malarkey on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to john arran:

I think that the Brexit wing of the Tory party dream of a race to the bottom - where the UK does away with "elf-n-safety" regulations and workers rights, imports GMO and chlorinated chicken from the US, sells anti-personnel mines to the Saudis, fracks most of Yorkshire, and turns the City into a giant tax-free version of The Cayman Islands.

That's the dream they mostly manage to suppress from openly admitting.

However I actually think they are beginning to realise that none of this is possible as the EU simply won't allow a cuckoo to grow in it's nest. If they pursue this vision then they won't be able to have any form of free trade agreement with the EU, they won't be allowed a services agreement (our main export), and the City will be cut loose from EU business. There can be no British cars being sold in the EU by Nissan or Toyota or whoever if we want to be a sweatshop economy.

There is no 'control' on offer. No cake and eat it. No cherry-picking. We will have to follow their rules, have no say, pay for it, and pay for extra bureaucracy to enforce our borders too. Plus expensive roaming charges.

 

 

 

 

 

jkarran - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Re standards generally the answer is obvious and you've heard it a thousand times I'm sure, we get to set our own standards *within the UK*.  Most business done here does not involve the EU.

You don't seem to understand the point of standards. For what it's worth I didn't really for years either, they were and still are an annoyance but they are an incredibly powerful tool. A standard only a small subset of your market buys into is barely worth the name, by tearing ourselves out of the EU we're not taking control of new standards so much as ceding control of highly developed widely adopted existing ones while throwing up new and costly barriers to commerce.

> The market in that place will not be a market for European goods specifically, it's a market for goods that match the local standards.  If we want to export we *already* have to comply with whatever the local standards are around the world.  Nothing has changed in that respect.

Except we're ceding control of the standards applicable in our single biggest export market creating new barriers to imports and additional regulatory burden within the UK.

> Doing the same thing but slightly different is how we progress, and how we learn.  Doing something one way and only one way and not even considering the possibility that we might be doing it wrong is how we stagnate.  Being utterly certain that the EU has made the right decision is mental.

You do understand that European standards evolve, that in very large part the technical standards have actually evolved from British standards with extensive British input into the technical committees that have shaped them? You don't have to tear it all up and start again to effect change.

> jkarran - I'm pretty sure that you're deliberately misrepresenting what I've said and you just want a bit of a spat.  Can't be bothered.

I'm pretty sure I'm not.

jk

jimtitt - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to Toby_W:

> Oh no!

> Cheers

> Toby


Probably going to be mostly irrelevant anyway since you aren´t going to be flying anywhere unless Britain can do some kind of deal over flight rights, the discussions with the USA aren´t looking good at the moment. 

Toby_W on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to jimtitt:

Yes I'd seen that too.  

Cheers

Toby

thomasadixon - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

> Once we've left we would have to go through some form of certification, up until now we've been using the EU standard, that will no longer exist for us, so we'll have to do our own. That will be a cost to us.

No we don't, we can just use EU standards where we think it's useful to do so (probably in most places).  If we choose to put in place other standards we have the option to.

Any idea how this affects legal requirements for child seat use in the UK, so why we can't set our own standard there?  Which may be more stringent or less depending on what we think is best.

> As long as it's only UK children that get maimed and killed by our relaxing of important safety standards, that's alright with you?

John Arran - why do you post this kind of crap?  Given that you've got no interest in trying to understand what I'm saying I'll leave it there.  Same to you jkarran.

3
thomasadixon - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to Ian W:

It will depend what provider you use.  If you use one that has higher charges for calls abroad and cheaper calls here then it will affect you.  The company has to make up for the lost income somewhere.  The point really is that the legislation is unnecessary and certainly not a major benefit, if you want to have cheap calls abroad pick a package that lets you do that (as you did).

2
jkarran - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> John Arran - why do you post this kind of crap?  Given that you've got no interest in trying to understand what I'm saying I'll leave it there.  Same to you jkarran.

Explain it to me. I'm interested, you just keep saying you can't be bothered.

jk

DubyaJamesDubya - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to jethro kiernan:

> As someone who travels for work in the EU, this made a huge differnce to me, before June 02 would sting me with huge bills every month, having to return a work related call for an extended discusion was painfull.

> Also 02 still charge me international to call Holland from the UK which seems against the princable of the roaming charge because this still puts a block on doing business within Europe. This also makes me doubt their commitment not to role things back post Brexit.

So why are you still with O2?

jkarran - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Any idea how this affects legal requirements for child seat use in the UK, so why we can't set our own standard there?

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/child-car-seats/article/child-car-seat-laws-uk-and-abroad/child-car-seats-laws-around-the-world

We already can. Like speed limits the threshold ages, heights and exemptions already differ significantly across Europe.

jk

Post edited at 14:45
ebdon on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

Surely which ever way you cut this it will cost consumers more? I'm struggling to understand why this isnt a bad thing?

thomasadixon - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to ebdon:

What will cost which customers more?

Calls, texts, etc in the EU has cost me £0 in the last 4 years.  I have been there, I just haven't done anything that cost me money (wifi is free all over the place).

Changing the system so that my overall tariff goes up to pay for a service that I simply do not use costs me >£0.  For customers that want to use certain services and can't be bothered to find a provider that offers it as part of the package free roaming law will save them money, for others who do not benefit from the change it's a cost.

If you want to take everything into account the money and time spent by the EU and other bodies legislating and enforcing the legislation costs me too - for no benefit as far as I'm concerned.

Post edited at 15:24
6
ebdon on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

I get you can get tarrifs with free roaming but they will cost more then those without so its not like its actually free like it is with the legislation surely?

thomasadixon - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to ebdon:

It's not free with the legislation.  The legislation doesn't require providers to keep tariffs the same and add in free roaming, it just requires that roaming costs are reduced.  If we take your example as correct then the more expensive tariffs are now the only ones available, I can't choose to buy the cheaper one anymore.

jkarran - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

How cheap do you want? I can use my ample bundled calls and data across Europe for £10/month, IIRC they do an £8 deal with a bit less data. It regularly used to cost me more than £10/call to do the same, the data didn't even work. Other than the 'free' roaming it's the same deal as before the legislation changed and it's still available, unchanged.

jk

Post edited at 15:58
ebdon on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

Ok i get what you are saying but you clearly have more faith in the altrisium of big compaines then me! i have absolutely no confidence that phone providers wont just see this as an oppertunity to fleece their customers. Perhaps I'm just being cynical.

thomasadixon - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to ebdon:

I wouldn't have faith in them being nice either!  It's a competitive market, that's what keeps them (relatively) honest.

3
Sir Chasm - on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> I wouldn't have faith in them being nice either!  It's a competitive market, that's what keeps them (relatively) honest.

Sure, and that's why all the companies offered free roaming before they were compelled to.

Tony Jones on 08 Mar 2018
In reply to john arran:

> As long as it's only UK children that get maimed and killed by our relaxing of important safety standards, that's alright with you?

Yup, taking back control innit.

 

krikoman - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> I wouldn't have faith in them being nice either!  It's a competitive market, that's what keeps them (relatively) honest.


Like gas prices, and water companies, not paying corporations tax.

That sort of honest?

thomasadixon - on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

Natural monopolies vs phone contracts.  Apples and oranges.

Ex Poster 666 on 09 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

Is all this chatter about Standards, Remainer scaremongering.  Please enlighten me.
CEN has 34 members, 6 of which are non-EU countries, for starters.
I present you with three links to get you going:
https://standards.cen.eu/dyn/www/f?p=CENWEB:5
https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/about-bsi/uk-national-standards-body/EUReferendum/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42439695

And what's the score with International standards, ISO, are we going to get booted out of them post Brexit?

krikoman - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> Natural monopolies vs phone contracts.  Apples and oranges.


You don't think phone contracts are an essential service in the modern era?

Anything important enough becomes a "natural" monopoly, doesn't it?

krikoman - on 10 Mar 2018
In reply to Lusk:

You might be right, I suppose it depends on how good a job we do in the negotiations and how many things get missed out.

I think in the short term, we'll probably be OK, it the future where we might run into trouble as standards evolve or new standards are created for things we don't even know about at the moment.

 

Good point though

 

thomasadixon - on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

> Anything important enough becomes a "natural" monopoly, doesn't it?

No.  Food’s essential, it’s certainly not a natural monopoly.

Ex Poster 666 on 11 Mar 2018
In reply to krikoman:

I'm sure I read somewhere that CEN is independent of the EU, so basically, UK leaving the EU is irrelevant, we just become a non-EU-member member?  Please feel free to prove me wrong It's in absolutely no ones interests to split off the UK from things like this, seeing as we have some of the finest engineers and scientists on the planet, for one; especially in a globably(?) trading world.

I look forward to our three legged friend's opinion on this!

Post edited at 19:45
krikoman - on 12 Mar 2018
In reply to thomasadixon:

> No.  Food’s essential, it’s certainly not a natural monopoly.


It could be though, which is why we stopped Tesco's getting to big like it take over of Booker. So it's not an impossibility is it?

 


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