UKC

Roman coin found at Cheedale Two Tier Upper

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 Owen Diba 03 Apr 2021

I found a roman coin at two tier upper yesterday.  Can anyone help identify it or explain how it came to be simply resting on the ground underneath a steep cliff that I imagine would be hard to access without abseiling?!! Here is a link to images of both faces of the coin: 

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1tXt0nyMgyD_yqq-n1bXfdzIq3SLEqTdl

Post edited at 08:38
 Will_Armstrong 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

Always take a picture in situ! 

3
 Owen Diba 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Will_Armstrong:

Why is that important? I'd say I'll know for next time but can't see it being a frequent event. 

1
 Richard J 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

Nice find.  At the top of Chee Tor is the site of a known Romano-British village (you can see the bumps on the ground quite well from the Wormhill road on the other side of the valley), so it's not a totally unlikely find site.  Roman abseiling may be a bit implausible but it could have been lost at the top of the cliff, and then much later been washed over the edge by a combination of animal disturbance and weather?

 nastyned 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

Sounds like they'll need to re-write who was the first ascensionist. 

 Lankyman 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

From the face of the emperor I'd guess it was late into the Roman period, sort of late third or fourth century AD? There was a big run of fairly short-term 'soldier emperors' who got killed within a few years of usurping power. Britannia was even part of a separate empire twice during the period due to usurpers taking control from the big man in Rome. Could you contact Derbyshire council. They'll have an antiquities person. Doesn't look like gold or silver so you'll probably be able to keep it. It would be great to know who it is though.

 Owen Diba 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Richard J:

Thanks for the reply. That's really interesting. I'll have to go and look at that! It seemed like anything falling from the top of the cliff would likely  overshoot the platform underneath to fall to the lower tier but still probably more likely than someone being there!

 Owen Diba 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

Thanks for the reply Lankyman! Interesting stuff. Do you happen to know what the deal is with the spiky crown he's wearing or what the figure is holding on the reverse face? Good shout, I'll contact the Derbyshire Council, I'd really like to know who it is. 

 Welsh Kate 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

Nice one! I'm not a numismatist (I opted for the specialist course on Latin inscriptions rather than Roman coinage when I was an undergrad) so I'm not going to be able to identify it I'm afraid, but Lankyman may well be right that it falls into that messy period of Roman history known as the 'third century crisis' or perhaps the 4th century. If you have nothing to do over the bank holiday you can always see if you can find something like it on here:
http://numismatics.org/ocre/
(using the search term 'radiate crown' may help but not much - that motif became very popular)

You can also report the find via the Portable Antiquities Scheme which is designed partly to encourage the formal recording of casual 'small finds' which don't count as 'treasure'. And yours most certainly isn't 'treasure'!
https://finds.org.uk/
Click on the 'get involved' button.

I wouldn't worry too much about photos of the find spot. Unless it's in an archaeological context (ie you've dug it up) the immediate spot of the find, so on the surface as you found it probably isn't going to be particularly relevant. The location - grid ref etc - will be.

You may also find groups on social media who can help you identify it.

Have fun. I'd spend more time searching myself but I'm off for an overnighter into the Beacons!

 Lankyman 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

> Thanks for the reply Lankyman! Interesting stuff. Do you happen to know what the deal is with the spiky crown he's wearing or what the figure is holding on the reverse face? Good shout, I'll contact the Derbyshire Council, I'd really like to know who it is. 

Welsh Kate has mentioned the 'radiate crown'. Without checking up I think this was a reference to the worship of the solar deity Sol Invictus (the invincible sun). By wearing it the emperor took on the power and prestige of the god. Sadly, it didn't seem to work for many of them! Similar to Constantine adopting the Christian cross as a symbol of power and authority. It did work for him! Not sure about the other side - I couldn't make it out. Will take another look.

 Lankyman 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

Just had a look and can't tell what it is. It will almost certainly be an image of imperial propaganda. If the emperor won a battle against someone then that would be portrayed. If the missus gave birth it could be the new heir or an ear of wheat if they'd had a good harvest. It does resemble a lampshade but I can't recall any emperor who notably increased lampshade production.

 climbercool 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

a 2500 year old coin! is it not worth loads of money now?

 Bob Kemp 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

>I can't recall any emperor who notably increased lampshade production.

”What do the Romans ever do for us?”

”The aqueduct?”

”Sanitation?”

”The roads?”

”Irrigation?”

”Yeah, well, you have to agree they were a total failure when it came to lampshade production!”

 Lankyman 03 Apr 2021
In reply to climbercool:

> a 2500 year old coin! is it not worth loads of money now?

Not quite as old - probably about 1700 to 1800 years old? It doesn't look like gold/silver so possibly bronze. Coins like this are usually quite common and turn up everywhere the Romans got and also plenty of places they didn't like Ireland and bits of Scotland outwith the empire. It's main value will be in the information it bears and speculating about how it ended up there.

 Lankyman 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

I've been doing a bit of online searching and may have found your man? It could be the 'British' Emperor Allectus who reigned in Britain and northern Gaul from 293 to 296 AD. The design on your coin looks like it may show the mast and guy lines of a galley which features on some of his coins (and the radiate crown on his head). See here for examples:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=allectus+coins&qpvt=allectus+coins&form=IQFRML&first=1&tsc=ImageBasicHover

He was a pretty unpleasant bloke by the sound - murdered his predecessor and was killed in turn by the forces of the official empire re-capturing Britannia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allectus

 Owen Diba 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

From Web searching about your candidate I came across Tetricus I, Gallic emperor 271-274AD. This image of a "Antoninianus" coin has a strong similarity to mine:

https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/tetricus_I/RIC_0135.jpg

​​​​​​Beard? Check. Spiky crown? Check. Lampshade? Check. It seems the lampshade could be Spes goddess of hope holding a flower on the right and lifting her robe on the left side. His wiki page says that Peak area of present day England was loosely loyal to Gallic empire, so seems plausible his money could end up there? 

 Owen Diba 03 Apr 2021
In reply to Welsh Kate:

Cheers Kate. Think i'll report it to the Portable Antiquities scheme as suggested 

In reply to Owen Diba:

Oooooh, you lucky lucky thing you!

 Lankyman 04 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

> From Web searching about your candidate I came across Tetricus I, Gallic emperor 271-274AD. This image of a "Antoninianus" coin has a strong similarity to mine:

> ​​​​​​Beard? Check. Spiky crown? Check. Lampshade? Check. It seems the lampshade could be Spes goddess of hope holding a flower on the right and lifting her robe on the left side. His wiki page says that Peak area of present day England was loosely loyal to Gallic empire, so seems plausible his money could end up there? 

Anything is possible with coins. They were carried all over the empire by soldiers and merchants and dropped out of pockets. On one of the pages I saw yesterday there was a report of a very rare antoninianus of Allectus selling for big money (£30,000?) so you never know? If nothing else it's a chance to learn about a little known part of our past.

Edit: just comparing your picture and the coin in the link and the figures do look very similar. Tetricus seems to be the frontrunner.

Post edited at 08:34
 Darron 04 Apr 2021
In reply to Owen Diba:

And what, pray, had Allectus ever done on grit?

 Lankyman 04 Apr 2021

In reply to Darron:

> And what, pray, had Allectus ever done on grit?

The old route book at Stonius Middletonium hasn't survived but he's been credited with a few grit classics

Via Dolorosa (VS 4c)

Saucius Digitalis (E4 6a)

Quietus (E2 5c)

Via Principia (S 4a)

Per Ardua (VS 5a)

 Darron 04 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

Forsooth!

May we assume that the premier wall of Via Dolorosa (VS 4c) would not be as the reflection of a maiden’s face in aqua? 

Post edited at 19:53
 Lankyman 05 Apr 2021
In reply to Darron:

> Forsooth!

> May we assume that the premier wall of Via Dolorosa (VS 4c) would not be as the reflection of a maiden’s face in aqua? 

Nil bastardi carborundum!

 fred99 05 Apr 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

> Nil bastardi carborundum!

Nil ILLEGITUM carborundum !!!

 Lankyman 05 Apr 2021
In reply to fred99:

> Nil ILLEGITUM carborundum !!!

>

Romanes eunt domus

youtube.com/watch?v=0lczHvB3Y9s&

In reply to Owen Diba:

I think Gary Gibson put it there as an investment


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