UKC

I know cynicism is rife right now about our politicians and with good reason. However, this bloke seems like a good egg? Someone with experience of rebuilding divided and devastated countries has turned up at the critical moment! Or am I being naive in investing a little hope in this chap?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart

He'll lead the Lib Dems to power!

He seems like a reasonably decent person, especially compared with the other shysters and fools standing for the leadership. But I don't see that he's offering any kind of solution to the Brexit dilemma, just a variant on May's package as far as I can tell, so he'll be chewed up and spat out in much the same way as May. 

He'd be better off staying out of the firing line and coming in to pick up the pieces when (if) the Tory Party comes to its senses. 

This. He has zero hope at the present time, Tory party seem bent on self destruction. Hopefully he'll be around in future to offer some sense.  

That might be the most sensible plan for him as a member of the Conservative party but not for the country - picking up pieces implies that they're about to break something, and I'd rather he took the bull by the horns now, even if that does mean another May style fudge/compromise in the interim - if that's what it takes to get him into the driver's seat.

(apologies for all the analogies)

But the Tory membership just wont vote for anyone who doesn't reject the current deal, and at least entertain the idea of No Deal (which he doesn't).

A fudge of the existing deal isn't enough for them.

 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/18/most-conse...

That report reads like the manifesto of a death cult. It's really depressing.

Yes I agree. Dark days ahead unfortunately.

It's astonishing that they Conservatives would overthrow the Union, economic prosperity and the party itself for an issue that was beneath all three of them in importance a few years ago. Also very telling that the JC poll is the only thing they wouldn't prefer and this is the only one that would be a short(ish) term issue so I can only conclude these people are thick as mince. What are they worried about? That JC would trash the economy.....

They tend to believe that a Conservative Government would give them a level of protection (special treatment) that a Corbyn Government wouldn’t. There is some truth to this. They also believe in a degree of personal exceptionalism which means that however shit the world is, they will rise to the top, however this would be severely hindered social democratic policies (communism according the Mail and the Telegraph). This is largely bollocks.

Their own privileged lifestyles is the only thing I can think of.

He's chillingly realistic in his assessment of the the current situation and how to break the deadlock. Without a general election the numbers in the House of Commons won't change. The Conservative Party don't want to risk a possible wipeout in a general election. A people's assembly just might break the logjam. All the other candidates seem to want rush to what I think will be the same stalemate we have now.

Having said that as a Labour Party member I'd still prefer a general election.

It's probably because the ret are so shit.

He’s not realistic - a general election cannot be avoided in the long term, and most of the party realise that following his path would lose them that election (whenever it is) and all the ones afterwards.

So, this is the Conservatives putting their own prominence before the welfare of the country and we're all doomed, how chivalrous they are.

Or from their point of view it’s putting the country, which is better off if the party exists and can be trusted (ie is worth voting for), first.  Rory is putting his personal preferences first.

You're in luck! I don't have time to highlight how ridiculous your argument is. Maybe someone else will be along soon to give you the dressing down that you thoroughly deserve.

Worth noting that his last attempt at rebuilding a divided and devastated country ended with him having to be rescued from a besieged Governor’s residence by an Italian armoured column, complete with main battle tanks.

...just saying.

Edit: ..and if further evidence of his diplomatic skills is required; he managed to get punched out by an American security contractor while negotiating a checkpoint (if I remember correctly). Kissinger he ain’t.

“Kissinger he ain’t” is a complement I would say.

No, he was a bad bugger and I’m pretty on board with Christopher Hitchens assessment of him, but he’s still the most famous diplomat of the last 50 years. He was instrumental in reinstating diplomatic ties with China and getting the Yanks out of Vietnam. Outside of some fine writing and going for a very long and very ill advised walk, Rory’s real world achievements are a little harder to pin down.

Yes, I think so. He has gotten a largely sycophantic treatment in the press, but he is really the ultimate Establishment candidate. Look at his voting record if you want to get an idea of what he actually thinks and does.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/opposite-career-politician... gives an alternate slant to some of the 'mythology.'

They must still think the Tories are the party of business, the party of economic competence. How quaint...

Still in with a shout

Too right!! He cost the lives of thousands in the Vietnam war, in order to keep Tricky Dicky as president.

I think there is a chance for the deal if Stewart wins this (big if, obviously).

The options are no deal, deal, no brexit. The country is divided between a group for no deal, a group for no brexit, a small group for the deal, and a large group don't care too much. So the deal is still an OK center position.

Stewart will have a big advantage compared to May: he will have already faced the ERG down. This makes it harder for the ERG to rebel because they will then be going against the wishes of the membership.

If he is flexible and doesn't care as much about FoM as May he has more options:

1. Have parliament change the default from no deal to no brexit. => all conservatives will vote for the deal.

2. Offer Labour a customs union and a general election. => enough labour to vote the deal through. (Corbyn can then lose another election....)

But the more likely scenario is that he won't win, the tory party breaks down, there'll be a general election. Maybe the LIB DEMs will even win this time!

The original point wasn’t that he was a ‘good bloke’, he wasn’t. The original point was that he was an effective diplomat, which he was, with a string of ceasefires, rapprochements, accords and a Nobel prize to his name.

I never suggested, you thought he was a good bloke, I was only saying that Kissinger, wasn't all he was cracked up to be, indeed he was a devious bastard, who killed many of his own people for political ends.

Can you use a Nobel prize to wash blood off your hands?

He'd be better realizing he is vastly out of step with the tory party and his life in foreign affairs was distracting him from the true trajectory of the tories since the 80s. If he came to power as a con leader he would be a PR exercise for them to attract the young and  a puppet leader with the same seething mess below him. They could use him that way for public consumption, they even talk about him being a good thing for the Cons but dismiss his views outright.  But he also needs to firm up his ideas domestically not just say the others are wrong. He would need his epiphany on a second referendum on principle because as yet anyone can interpret a simplistic referendum question without referring it back to the electorate for detailed, democratic scrutiny. He's a lone voice in the conservative  party and no where else just yet. Tonight on that debate I thought he started to look wholly disillusioned with the Con party machine. Maybe the penny is slowing or rather rapidly dropping. But eventually he has to decide where he belongs and that looks like it is evolving. I'm not impressed by him politically really. A GE would bring out other debates and outlooks that are more attractive. The whole Tory leadership thing is a narrowing of the political debate while Rome burns.

Cheers. Yet again proving everything has to be black or white on UKC.

”Adolf certainly loved that dog”

”Ahh, so you’re a committed National Socialist!”

Jeez, you guys...

Funnily enough, he tried to hand it back after the piece of diplomacy he won it for failed spectacularly.

According to Nixon's own tapes they always knew it was going to fail. The whole thing was part of a larger effort to extricate the US without losing too much face. The more focused goal was saving Nixon's presidency. 

Yet another success

At least if he flunks in the leadership election then he can get a job in the Hammer House of Horror

Yeah, it was. He was massively popular in the polls. And then Watergate hit him.

Hitchens is interesting on Kissinger .

He also suggests that Thatcher helped end Kissinger’s continuing influence on USA support for despotic countries with  the Falklands war.

Watergate was around way before the ceasefire was agreed, however it grew and grew and you are right that the real damage was done well in to 1973.

With any democratic legitimacy? It strikes me as a good way to guide the early stages of controversial policy making which might otherwise get mired in opportunistic/partisan squabbling and lobbying but it's not a great tiebreaker. If a parliament of the people can't or won't proceed in conscience on the available information I don't see how asking a smaller panel of the people to advise them really helps.  Only way I see that working is if an assembly concludes parliament needs a new democratic mandate. Any other conclusion will provide too weak a mandate for parliament and or too much opportunity for corrosive rigging/betrayal myths to be built should parliament find itself shifted sufficiently to act either way.

As someone who wishes to retain my existing rights and for a sharper focus on social and environmental issues that's the last thing I want right now. Labour will be decimated, the remain vote will be atomised by FPTP, the Conservative party will be destroyed, *nothing* good comes from an election at the moment.

jk

I wonder given the transient nature of the campaigning and the proprietary data held offshore on exactly what has been served to who, when, why and for whom we'll ever be able to reverse engineer how we got into this mess?

We can't live like this long term.

jk

Is out.

I must admit, I was quite disappointed by this. I've really grown to like him in these interviews and the TV debates. The debates in particular were far more interesting with him there as he was pushing the other candidates on the details over a no deal Brexit / how the intended to move forward.

Not that it it would make any difference in the long run since Boris has this tied up... 

... yep, its a shame he's gone... it appears the faintest glimmer of hope, namely Rory Stewart, someone who might have been able to bring some kind of satisfactory resolution / compromise to the Shit-Show we currently find ourselves in, has been ousted...

This is no time for sensible people with a glimmer of competence, this is the time for wild media personalities without the encumbrance of a clue.

Obviously he had to go: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/19/rory-stewa...

As a Labour voter I'm quite pleased it'll be BJ to beat at the next election. He certainly won't be appealing to anyone considering voting Labour.

Indeed, I too would rather live in a Communist state than under the rule of any of the remaining candidates. Once this has run its course, whoever wins, I can't see the conservatives being back in power for a generation at least.

I think we're heading for a period of coalitions. Whether that is good or bad remains to be seen.

... not sure about living in a communist state but I rather hope the Tory's are consigned to the political wasteland / dustbin for much longer than generation... I was hoping for complete obliteration...

Be careful what you wish for. If the Tories are obliterated, I don’t think the resultant vacuum will be filled by a nice, sensible, social democratic party. 

Fixed 😉

... yes, you're possibly quite right... perhaps its case of 'better the devil we know' - still leaves a sour taste though...

I'm wondering if the smart money is on Rory Stewart playing the long game.

First day of his campaign he laid the seed that he wouldn't work for a government led by Boris Johnson, despite knowing he was the clear favourite.

Throughout this contest he has risen in prominence, including 'winning' the TV debate, and commentators have said he is looking increasingly homeless in a party lurching to the right.

First day of Boris Johnson as Tory leader he quits government and the Conservative party as it has moved so far the the right and joins the Lib Dems.

The Lib Dems, in the middle of their own leadership contest, have a new member who had been tested favourably in front of the nation who could be sold as the unity candidate bringing moderate Tories and Labour voters to the centre ground.......

I do wonder.......