UKC

With Shapps’ sudden support or cycling and walking infrastructure It seems like NOx pollution and lung damage could be a major factor in not surviving a Covid-19 infection, or indeed any subsequent respiratory pandemic. A lot of the SAGE advice seems to be not published or has been redacted but I’m sure this will come out in due course. On the face of it support for cyclists would go against the prejudices of core Tory voters and recent white van man converts but we live in desperate times. Aside from Covid NOx (breathing in nitric acid) is one of the greatest unrecognised threats to public health in urban areas.

any thoughts or comments?

Because it's an easy way out. With the added bonus that it makes him look Green.
Or ....
Solving the public transport problem is too difficult for them and will cost too much.

Or perhaps: it's an obvious pragmatic suggestion, and a good idea.

Oxidative stress and excessive ROS production are being discussed in the literature as part of Covid 19’s harm mechanisms and are shared with NOX exposure.  It’s certainly tempting to speculate. 

A significant increase in the nation's active travel has been a target of successive governments for the last three decades. The walking and cycling strategies of almost every local authority in the land speak of high ambition and intent.  Meanwhile many other policies and the significant lack of targeted funding have created huge barriers to achieving anything meaningful. 

What was always going to be needed was some game-changing crisis or disaster. I have always thought it would be the increasing price of fuel, but even this seems pie in the sky.

If one positive of this pandemic is a change in societal desire for active travel and government funding for safe infrastructure, I'm all for it!

It is all very easy to get caught up in the current cycling wave. Quiet roads, pleasant weather, increased number of cyclists on the road and the few drivers around are less likely to lose their rag due to quieter roads.

Folks caught up in the moment will reply yes to the will you cycle to work question. 

Wind back in time to January and it's storms, fill the roads with irate drivers and take away the daylight. What happens then? 

I am a year round cycle commuter. 

Indeed, and its been a good idea since the "bike to work scheme" was introduced in 1999 (bloody hell, 21 years ago!). Its a shame that it has been somewhat under the radar for so long, but anything that gets people out of their tin boxes, especially in cities has to be a good thing, so reviving it / changing it / enhancing it is good and to be welcomed.

We'll be back to the usual january commuting hell, but thats no reason we cant have the benefits for at least some of the year.

Sure but I think Grant Shaps (or whatever name he is going by this week) sees it as a permanent solution. 

Hmmm. Always going to be a bit of a problem in our climate.....but look, it gives him a bit of soundbite glory, and if it does get people onto bikes, it has to be good imho.

His suggestion isn't just about about bikes (and btw I have reservations about the 'bike to work' scheme - it has a tendency to give a tax cut to those who are already well-enough off) - it's also about encouraging people simply to walk to work if possible.

Its not exactly a massive amount of money in comparison as to that still being spunked away on roads.

For bikes as others have mentioned winter is rather offputting to many people. That said if you push e-bikes then might work (since major issue is ability to shower and change in many workplaces). Looks like they are also going to legalise electric scooters as well which could get messy.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reallocating-road-space-in-respo...

Not nearly as messy as Covid transmission on public transport .

Usually safer, warmer, drier, faster and more efficient in an electric tin box.,

Not if you’re stuck in a traffic jam. 

We need to start bringing in policies whereby children, starting with primary schools, HAVE to attend their closest school. Teachers employed HAVE to live within ten miles of school, for example. There may be some unintended consequences, there may be unseen loopholes, but the gains in less traffic, more exercise etc would outweigh the downsides.  

Makes no sense for many working parents with commutes.  Our closest school is five miles away, or a ten mile round trip in the opposite direction to our commute.  So using that instead of a school that is seven miles away but is on our commute would require another 20 miles of driving a day.  

There is a bus but it serves the nearest secondary only but not the nearby primary.  I know of other busses that serve one secondary but not the other next door.  Total madness.

At present. 

Yes.  Obviously.  It’s hopefully also obvious to you that it’s obvious to me that this could be fixed.  Could even be why I mentioned it.  

Safer for who ? 

And broadening it beyond bikes is good. Its always been a bit of a disappointment that the bike to work thing hasnt really changed in 20 years - it was a good initiative when it started, and an employer in the mid 00's was very supportive (the MD was a keen cyclist) and many employees took advantage. But nothig has really changed in it and I wasnt actually aware it was still extant, until I looked at the "new" one and did a bit of digging into what happened to the previous one.......

Basically, its been an opportunity missed that could have been built on. Incidentally, there is also a scheme to try to get young people easier access to workplaces by providing them with subsidised scooters / small motorbikes......also very much under the radar, and underused, but there if you look hard enough.

The idea is to get commuters out of a tin box, not into a different tin box. And (especially in london), out of large tin boxes shared with lots of others.......

Our EV allegedly won't let me crash in to a pedestrian, unlike my pedal cycle.  I can't say I intend to try this, but some other people did and there's a way to go yet...  

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/10/aaa-finds-your-new-car-probably-wont-s...

Edit:  I can only apologise for linking to the AAA plot in the article where a categorical variable is plotted with a line joining the data points.  It’s awful...

You're right that Ebikes and scooters aren't an attractive option in winter and hazardous in icy conditions.

However if they are used in good weather then that's still a good thing.

An electric tin box is more efficient than a bicycle...?

Not far off actually if you fill it with people, especially if you keep the speed down to 30 mph.  The numbers come out surprisingly close.  A lot less energy used to make 5 bicycles than one EV mind, although an EV can run off sunlight where-as a bicycle runs off hydrocarbon fuels that themselves are very carbon intensive to produce.

A modern EV with 5 people in it limited to 30 mph can be more efficient than 5 people running at 8 mph.  Almost 4x faster, less excess carbon emissions, no sweat and baggage space.  Would be perfect if they were carbon and harm free to produce...

Actually, an ebike into a strong wintery headwind is an absolute god-send provided that you wrap up warm. 

I'm a bit of an n+1 addict and having an ebike in my stable has really helped motivation for my daily cycle commute on those really grim days. Full waterproofs, wellies, snowboard helmet, buff, goggles have all been useful!

An ebike in snow is a lot of fun. Black ice is a quick education!

I don't have a need to carry five people to work.

But, probably most importantly, sitting in an electric tin box won't keep me fit.

The "ifs" are rather big ones though (admittedly the latter quite often happens in town but often not by choice).

That fuel requirement is a by-product of sustaining my life, though. The delta required for my bicycle transport is quite small. Maybe we should be using e-tractors, etc for producing and distributing food?

In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:

Who knows.  I’m sure people only need to travel for leisure after all.

Depends - per mile - an awful lot on how fast you cycle.  EV vs 5 bikes 30 mph sustained is different to EV vs one pootling cyclist.

Beyond a doubt.  

Of course, the other issue is that this recent initiative is trying to address the health problem of transporting multiple people in tin boxes of any kind...

And trying to increase fitness is in order to be better able to fight the illness if you do get infected.

I guess this is expanding the scope of the 'system efficiency' calculations...

Complete agree that the CTW scheme is a big missed opportunity.  I helped set it up at my previous work and proved very popular.  A good number of folktfolk got involved are now keen mountain bikers so it had a big impact on their health.  Sadly the details of the scheme were changed under one of the prev Torry governments so that rather than paying back a nominal fee (£5 was the official suggestion at the time from memory) you are now asked for "fair market value".  You can pay a fixed fee to extend out the loan period for another 2 years though which reduces the value a lot at the end of the period.  All in all, I found it cheaper to get something in the sales than through CTW last time I looked.

That was c.2 years ago though so may have changed again.  I'd be great if it reverted to the old rules.

Cheers,

Stu

You forgot the potholes that make some roads just plain lethal for two wheels, and Councils constant moaning that they don't have the money to fix the roads - but strangely do have money for big PR schemes.

Check out Green Commute Initiative which is a relatively new bike to work scheme provider, with a much higher grant available and a permissable work around for the residual value issue. If you can persuade your employer to sign up, you can make significant savings on a new bike.

Cheers for that, will give it a look as commuter died just before lockdown!

It could be phased in slowly. People would start to consider the best place to live to reduce travel. Some of the present journeys to work and school would fit into your description of 'total madness'.