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And people still love the bbc... https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/26/bbc-news-confuse-lebron-james-kobe-bryant-co...
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In reply to climberclimber321:
White men can’t jump.
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In reply to DancingOnRock:
It's like Messi getting killed and showing footage of Ronaldo.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
Oh please! Is this yet more wokist all-white-people are racist clap-trap!?
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In reply to climberclimber321:
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a868646/bbc-breakfast-blunder-eric-idle-steve...
It’s just a mistake. In a hurriedly put together montage for someone not very famous to most of the UK.
they do it for white people too, in a montage made with plenty of advanced notice.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
> And people still love the bbc... https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/26/bbc-news-confuse-lebron-james-kobe-bryant-co...
Yep, I do. One of the best things about the UK!
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In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> It's like Messi getting killed and showing footage of Ronaldo.
Yes, a mistake. What is your point?
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In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
I don’t know who they are either.
The only one I know is Magic Jordan.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
OK, well done, I am unable to tell whether you are:
A) Serious, and actually shocked.
B) Satirically poking fun at the sort or person who would conclude that the error was related to his colour.
C) Just trolling.
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Probably something along the lines of, he’s a tall, famous, black basket ball player, must be kobe...
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In reply to climberclimber321:
It isn't a good look, but as others have said, it's just someone using the wrong photo on an article. Given that this happens lots, and that lots of people are non-white, it's a bit much to jump straight to calling it racism.
https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/11/13/8-times-bbc-news-app-used-wrong-pictur...
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In reply to climberclimber321:
I'd heard of him, just, like I've heard of LeBron James, but I wouldn't have recognised either of them. I don't suppose there are that many Americans who could tell Messi from Ronaldo.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
It's pretty unprofessional and disrespectful to run something clearly wrong on anyone's death, but with no context it's just a run-of-the-mill, if bad, cock-up.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
> Yes, a mistake. What is your point?
The point is a National broadcaster that we all pay for with no choice on the matter should have much higher standards. It should not be making such amateur mistakes.
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In reply to Taylor's Landlord:
> Who???
> Was he in the Harlem Globetrotters?
Yeah because all Black basketball players must be in the Harlem globetrotters.
You should have put 'I'm not racist but was he in the Harlem Globetrotters ?'
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In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Yeah, whatever!
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In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> The point is a National broadcaster that we all pay for with no choice on the matter should have much higher standards. It should not be making such amateur mistakes.
Obviously all mistakes are regrettable, but what really boils my blood is people who jump on every little slip to accuse the BBC of systematic bias, racism or whatever. It's pathetic
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In reply to NERD:
> Come on, about 50% of the shite that comes out of our entire media is untrue. They get more 'facts' wrong than they get right!
Yes, and a lot of it is deliberately distorted or untrue. The BBC is one of the few places one can turn to without fear of that being the case.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> Yeah because all Black basketball players must be in the Harlem globetrotters.
> You should have put 'I'm not racist but was he in the Harlem Globetrotters ?'
Are you the only permanently offended, virtue signalling, intolerant, woke racist on this thread?
Theres usually rather more of you...
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In reply to climberclimber321:
I suspect it's an honest error from a person who has no idea who either of them are. An America player of an almost predominantly American sport. I imagine a worker on the metro in LA has no idea about cricket or UK rugby league/union players.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
My real issue with this story was the prominence it was given. Not really a big story for most UK folk I think?
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In reply to Dr.S at work:
> My real issue with this story was the prominence it was given. Not really a big story for most UK folk I think?
Especially consider what's happening in asia, or the anniversary of allied forces reaching various death camps.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
I once captioned a photo of an amazing goal from a football match (where the goal scorer was clearly visible) to imply that the club’s elderly manager had been the goal scorer and not in fact their shit hot teenage striker.
Not entirely sure how I managed it, but I recall it as being a good talking (shouting) point for my sports editor once inevitably it had gone to print.
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In reply to Dr.S at work:
> My real issue with this story was the prominence it was given. Not really a big story for most UK folk I think?
I think it is. His fame somehow went beyond basketball; I knew of him and his (stage managed) “feud” with Lebron James without knowing exactly what either of them looked like or who they played for. They are international superstars, like it or not. Perhaps they are better known (in the UK) to a younger demographic.
Also there is always morbid public interest in a grisly accidental death especially if a child is involved.
Post edited at 19:06
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In reply to climberclimber321:
Google this..... cross race effect
It really is more difficult to tell members of other races apart.
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In reply to Blue Straggler:
> I think it is. His fame somehow went beyond basketball; I knew of him and his (stage managed) “feud” with Lebron James without knowing exactly what either of them looked like or who they played for. They are international superstars, like it or not. Perhaps they are better known (in the UK) to a younger demographic.
Interesting. There may be a bit of a bubble going on here - I'd genuinely never heard of him before today, and couldn't tell you the name of, or recognise a picture of, any basketball player. And I can't think of a time when anyone around me ever talked about basketball. Is it really that popular here?
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In reply to skog:
> Interesting. There may be a bit of a bubble going on here - I'd genuinely never heard of him before today, and couldn't tell you the name of, or recognise a picture of, any basketball player. And I can't think of a time when anyone around me ever talked about basketball. Is it really that popular here.
I'd certainly never heard of him. I had assumed that the story here was not really about his death but a reaction to how big the story was in the US - the story itself bring the story.
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In reply to Le Sapeur:
> Google this..... cross race effect
> It really is more difficult to tell members of other races apart.
Of course it is. I was not sure at first which of the two in the first picture in the link was the one in the picture lower down with his daughter.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
I thought it was a white man who died. Or, at least, I didn't assume he was black.
In reply to climberclimber321:
Top of the Pops did it best, many years ago, with the backdrop for Dexy's Midnight Runners and their tribute to black soul legend Jackie Wilson. There on the backdrop, five times larger than life, was a picture of white Scottish darts legend Jockie Wilson, sweating profusely under the stage lights and poised with his dart slightly forward of his magnificent beer belly.
Apparently, the band were not amused...
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In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> Yeah because all Black basketball players must be in the Harlem globetrotters.
I suspect it's because Archy has only ever heard of one basketball team: the Harlem Globetrotters. Because, if he's of my generation, they were internationally famous. There was even a cartoon series about them. Shown on British TV.
I wouldn't be able to name any other basketball team.
I heard the news and saw the footage, and was saddened by the loss of nine lives, including a young girl. Who they were was somewhat incidental to me.
Sadly, the BBC News isn't what it was. Much of its headline news is taken from Twitter feeds, without any editorial input. It doesn't surprise that that they have cocked up like this.
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In reply to climberclimber321:
http://news.sky.com/story/kobe-bryant-death-who-were-the-nine-victims-kille...
White people did die.
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In reply to captain paranoia
> Sadly, the BBC News isn't what it was. Much of its headline news is taken from Twitter feeds, without any editorial input.
Evidence? Examples?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
> Evidence? Examples?
Check out their 'most popular' story list on any day. They will reference 'trending' stories.
Obituaries quote Twitter and other social media posts.
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In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> The point is a National broadcaster that we all pay for with no choice on the matter should have much higher standards. It should not be making such amateur mistakes.
Have you ever read any journalism about climbing? Journalists filter stuff to a level that Joe Public can understand, against unforgiving deadlines, frequently making enormous f*ck-ups! C'est la vie.
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In reply to Thrudge:
> Top of the Pops did it best, many years ago, with the backdrop for Dexy's Midnight Runners and their tribute to black soul legend Jackie Wilson. There on the backdrop, five times larger than life, was a picture of white Scottish darts legend Jockie Wilson, sweating profusely under the stage lights and poised with his dart slightly forward of his magnificent beer belly.
> Apparently, the band were not amused...
I've always believed that this was done deliberately as a joke.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
> Yep, I do. One of the best things about the UK!
That’s not being very kind on the U.K. BBC has gone downhill massively in the past ten years. Used to be the best major state funded TV channel in europe, now one of the worst IMO (in terms of quality of programming, and quality of news reporting).
Even the last glimmers of light (newsnight, for example) are getting axed big time.
Post edited at 07:39
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In reply to Bobling:
> Have you ever read any journalism about climbing? Journalists filter stuff to a level that Joe Public can understand, against unforgiving deadlines, frequently making enormous f*ck-ups! C'est la vie.
If it can’t get right something as basic as the identity of a person how on Earth are they supposed to get things right on complex subjects ?
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In reply to RomTheBear:
> That’s not being very kind on the U.K. BBC has gone downhill massively in the past ten years. Used to be the best public TV in europe, now one of the worst IMO (in terms of quality of programming, and quality of news reporting).
Obviously I can't comment on other European networks, but I havn't noticed any drop in BBC quality.
> Even the last glimmers of light (newsnight, for example) are getting axed big time.
I think Newsnight is better than ever just now. I thought its Brexit coverage last year was superlative. Is it really getting axed?
In reply to Bobling:
> Have you ever read any journalism about climbing? Journalists filter stuff ...
We have the commentary on the climbing events in the Olympics to look forward to. Where no doubt someone will ask or comment about how it compares to the world's hardest climb, Everest.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
> In reply to captain paranoia
> Evidence? Examples?
Keunssberg et al tweeting that a Labour activist had punched Matt Hancock's advisor.
If you don't think the BBC have been biased against Corbyn and Labour since the referendum and during the last two elections, you must've been on a different planet to me.
E
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In reply to climberclimber321:
People make mistakes. Learn to be tolerant.
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In reply to RomTheBear:
> That’s not being very kind on the U.K. BBC has gone downhill massively in the past ten years. Used to be the best major state funded TV channel in europe, now one of the worst IMO (in terms of quality of programming, and quality of news reporting).
> Even the last glimmers of light (newsnight, for example) are getting axed big time.
This. It is a shadow of what it was a decade ago. I'm honestly surprised people still see it as the pinnacle of New reporting it once was. It's gone down the way of click bait now.
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In reply to Enty:
> Keunssberg et al tweeting that a Labour activist had punched Matt Hancock's advisor.
Yes, that was a very regrettable lapse, but it was only a tweet, not an item on the BBC website let alone on a radio or TV bulletin.
> If you don't think the BBC have been biased against Corbyn and Labour since the referendum and during the last two elections, you must've been on a different planet to me.
Indeed. The trouble is that most people now spend spend so much time on the "planet" of their own social media echo chamber, that they have a decidedly distorted view of reality. That is why both left and right, leavers and remainders, Yes and No think the BBC is biased in its non partisan neutrality. The government are currently boycotting the Today Programme, John Humphreys claims the BBC is too far to the left, I heard a Tory politician the other day complaining that the BBC had failed to reflect the views of Leavers over Brexit.
The BBC strives and succeeds in getting it mostly right most of the time. I genuinely fear for the effect it would have on this country if it was torn apart by its detractors all pulling in different directions and we were left with nowhere to turn to for a common source of level-headedness.
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In reply to Roadrunner6:
> It is a shadow of what it was a decade ago. I'm honestly surprised people still see it as the pinnacle of New reporting it once was. It's gone down the way of click bait now.
Is this maybe somewhat due to a decline in the capabilities of the audience? The 'trending' stories that get prime spots on the webpage are presumably driven by what people choose to look at, rather than what editors might think is important - thus if all we slack-jawed troglodytes want to hear about is tedious nonsense about the Sussexes and hot new uses for algae then that's what we're given.
But there is quality if you're a bit more determined - The World Tonight, Newsnight etc generally seem pretty good quality, exploring topics and being informative/thought-provoking
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In reply to climberclimber321:
But it gives us Radio 3! Long live the Beeb. And I am serious about that!
Good God. Hello middle-age, pleased to meet you.
Post edited at 13:51
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In reply to russellcampbell:
> I've always believed that this was done deliberately as a joke.
and one requested by the band themselves:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/mar/27/jocky-wilson-other-rock-myths
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In reply to nufkin:
It’s probably bit of both.
maybe it’s because I live away or rose tinted glasses but it is noticeably inferior. Maybe those who watch it every day don’t see the gradual decline.
But there’s now so much info at our finger tips we easily live in an echo chamber.
however I do think the press now partly drive stories, reactions and events somewhat.
i think we saw it in the US. The liberal media loved Trump and gave him lots of press time because he’s awesome for ratings. He’s saved CNN and other news outlets.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
> Indeed. The trouble is that most people now spend spend so much time on the "planet" of their own social media echo chamber, that they have a decidedly distorted view of reality. That is why both left and right, leavers and remainders, Yes and No think the BBC is biased in its non partisan neutrality.
That doesnt mean that the BBC isnt biased. It may simply mean that some groups are unable to see anything but slavish support as bias against them.
The boycotting the Today program is a good example. Quite convenient the concern about the bias doesnt extend to the traditionally softer day time tv interviews as well isnt it?
As for Humphreys. Not exactly someone with a neutral viewpoint there and does beg the question if the bbc had such a bias how come he, and several others, have all been employed there for many years in senior posts?
In reply to mondite:
> That doesnt mean that the BBC isnt biased. It may simply mean that some groups are unable to see anything but slavish support as bias against them.
Or even most groups.
> The boycotting the Today program is a good example. Quite convenient the concern about the bias doesnt extend to the traditionally softer day time tv interviews as well isnt it?
Not sure what your point is. Yes, they didn't like bring held to account by tough interviews which they perceived as biased.
> As for Humphreys. Not exactly someone with a neutral viewpoint there and does beg the question if the bbc had such a bias how come he, and several others, have all been employed there for many years in senior posts?
Everyone has their own views. It is a matter of whether they allow them to affect their professional impartiality.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
> Not sure what your point is. Yes, they didn't like bring held to account by tough interviews which they perceived as biased.
Its simple enough. You take them at their word I am a tad more cynical.
Aside from the more stupid MPs (admittedly rather a large category) I doubt they do think those interviews are really biased but instead just claim it both as an excuse for themselves and a dogwhistle to their supporters.
> Everyone has their own views. It is a matter of whether they allow them to affect their professional impartiality.
I never said otherwise although its worth noting Humphries failed to achieve that repeatedly.
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In reply to mondite:
> I doubt they do think those interviews are really biased but instead just claim it both as an excuse for themselves and a dogwhistle to their supporters.
You may be right. Either way, it really worried me that the BBC is increasingly a political football bring kicked from all sides. I really hope it holds its ground.
> I never said otherwise although its worth noting Humphries failed to achieve that repeatedly.
I disliked him more for the way he wore his ignorance of all things scientific like a badge of honour. The today programme is much improved by his retirement.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
> I'd certainly never heard of him. I had assumed that the story here was not really about his death but a reaction to how big the story was in the US - the story itself bring the story.
Global social media driving national news priorities.
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In reply to FactorXXX:
Thanks.
In reply to Andy Johnson:
> Global social media driving national news priorities.
I think the Media can also drive the news, it's why good PR guys and guys who can manipulate the press are is important, something Labour failed badly in this time around. Maybe they thought they'd get better treatment of the BBC but they scored some spectacular own goals.
Post edited at 17:05
In reply to climberclimber321:
Seems to be a bit missing from many of the reports
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-01-26/what-happened-kobe-bryant-s...
In reply to RomTheBear:
> If it can’t get right something as basic as the identity of a person how on Earth are they supposed to get things right on complex subjects ?
They don't for the most part!
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In reply to climberclimber321:
I don't get the significance of your title?
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In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
> The point is a National broadcaster that we all pay for with no choice on the matter should have much higher standards. It should not be making such amateur mistakes.
Wow, 'the national broadcaster' did this? Not some an individual who may be quite junior or tired or whatever, and just made a stupid mistake.
There may be a solution: Quadruple the licence fee and hire only the 'best of the best' to insure such mistakes never happen. That's what you want right?
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In reply to RomTheBear:
> That’s not being very kind on the U.K. BBC has gone downhill massively in the past ten years. Used to be the best major state funded TV channel in europe, now one of the worst IMO (in terms of quality of programming, and quality of news reporting).
Interesting. Which would you pick out as the best in Europe now?
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In reply to climberclimber321:
What I find worse is the uncritical hero worship of a self admitted rapist (not convicted in a criminal trial as the victim, a 19 year old girl employed in his household, did not push the case, but he admitted the act in the parallel civil settlement. One law for the rich...).
A Washington Post journalist was even suspended for tweeting a link to the 2006 news article reporting the case.
CB
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In reply to climberclimber321:
Pisses me off how much coverage American sports get in this country, full stop.
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In reply to GrahamD:
> Pisses me off how much coverage American sports get in this country, full stop.
There's hardly any. You want more?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
BBC web page quite often has a 'banner' for some amazing 'touch down' or some other US sport 'event'. I never see it for any other countries sports.
Come to that I don't see it even for sports we are quite good at, like squash.
In reply to Robert Durran:
> There's hardly any. You want more?
What about the amount of time devoted to their version of football.
And whilst Basketball is a sport played elsewhere, including here, pretty well all the players seem to be from abroad (where are the Brexiteers when you need them), and are physical freak shows to boot.
(I'm only 5'6" !!)
In reply to fred99:
Ha, this from BBC's front page right now, when we are one day away from one of the most seismic political events in recent history and in the middle of a rapidly worsening, potentially terrifying epidemic.
"Is this the biggest NFL legend you don't know?".
So many replies suggest themselves!
Same with US weather - hurricane possible in US - prime time news, floods in Bangladesh kill hundreds/thousands...foot note.
In reply to Bobling:
Really? The most prominent article on the "front Page" when I look is the flu epidemic in China and how it's affecting Brits. I don't see any mention of the NFL.
Post edited at 11:59
In reply to climberclimber321:
It's not the 'biggest' story, but there under 'Full story a few scrolls down. Fair enough Coronavirus is no 1, touche!
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In reply to climberclimber321:
The death of the last RAF Battle of Britain ace got about 15 seconds on Radio Five this morning, and probably won't be mentioned again. The grief of the late Mr Bryant's family, as expressed through social media, got considerably longer.
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In reply to Thrudge:
> Apparently, the band were not amused...The
Apparently it was the band's idea:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/mar/27/jocky-wilson-other-rock-myths
In reply to climberclimber321:Is it racist to not be the slightest bit interested in basketball and not know the name of a single American player apart from Kobe Bryant after last week? What worries me is the way the British media seem to think we should be saddened/moved by a story about any american sportsman, unknown outside his own country. It's like being informed of the sad demise of a Norwegian cross country skier, or Hungarian water polo star. Massive there, not so much here.
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Do we know for sure that it was a white person who put the footage together? If not, isn't it in itself racist to assume that it was?
Personally, I could only recognise two basketball players, Michael Jordan and Larry Bird. I am certain that I would not mix those two up.
In reply to Pete Pozman:
> Is it racist to not be the slightest bit interested in basketball and not know the name of a single American player apart from Kobe Bryant after last week? What worries me is the way the British media seem to think we should be saddened/moved by a story about any american sportsman, unknown outside his own country.
It’s probably not racist not to know who someone is, but to comment on a thread on a news story about someone’s death, and bang on and on about how you didn’t know who they were, and make witty jokes like, “was he in the Harlem Globetrotters?” is probably crossing the line a bit. Whenever I read a news story about the death of someone I don’t know, I never assume that proudly announcing that fact will benefit anyone.
It's like being informed of the sad demise of a Norwegian cross country skier, or Hungarian water polo star. Massive there, not so much here.
It’s nothing like that though, is it? He was one of the most well known players in one of the most popular sports in the world. Yet, it’s an American sport, but it’s big elsewhere, including in the uk. A better analogy would be someone like Pete Sampras, or Jonny Wilkinson being killed. You might not know who they were, but that wouldn’t change the fact that it would be a big news story.
In reply to Robert Durran:
A couple of things make British-ness globally renowned; one is our language and the second is the BBC.
Just remember that when you start bashing. Sky TV is hardly going to further our culture, more likely murder our intelligence
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In reply to gazhbo:
Basketball, Baseball, American Football mean absolutely nothing to me. Pete Sampras, Jimmy Connors, the Williams sisters, Tiger Woods etc are massive international stars. You have to be addicted to Americana to care less about the above mentioned sports. The average person in this country would not be able to identify a single player, black, white, or whatever.
When Jeff Lowe died I was interested and moved.
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In reply to 98%monkey:
> A couple of things make British-ness globally renowned; one is our language and the second is the BBC.
> Just remember that when you start bashing.......
I would like to make it clear that I was not doing any bashing. I love the BBC!
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In reply to 98%monkey:
> A couple of things make British-ness globally renowned; one is our language and the second is the BBC.
> Just remember that when you start bashing.......
I would like to make it clear that I was not doing any bashing. I love the BBC!
In reply to gazhbo:
> a better analogy would be someone like Pete Sampras, or Jonny Wilkinson being killed. You might not know who they were, but that wouldn’t change the fact that it would be a big news story.
Wilkinson would be a good analogy; a big story in the UK (or at least in England), but in the US I imagine the reaction would be "Jonny who?". Sampras, I think, is a poor analogy; tennis is relatively global and he is very well known here because of Wimbledon.
In reply to Pete Pozman:
> Basketball, Baseball, American Football mean absolutely nothing to me. Pete Sampras, Jimmy Connors, the Williams sisters, Tiger Woods etc are massive international stars. You have to be addicted to Americana to care less about the above mentioned sports. The average person in this country would not be able to identify a single player, black, white, or whatever.
But you’re not necessarily illustrative of the whole country. I’m not ”addicted to Americana” by any stretch (it’s interesting that you used care less in it’s American sense though) but I could name you a few basketball players, and Kobe Bryant was one of them. I’ve probably got a slightly higher than average geeky interest in sport but there is pretty healthy basketball playing base in this country and I would be surprised if your claim that the average person in the country couldn’t name a single player was remotely true.
I’ve no strong feelings about Kobe Bryant either way, and I certainly wouldn’t say I’m saddened by his death, but it would be frankly ridiculous if the death of one of the most famous players ever, 2 years after retirement, in a helicopter crash, didn’t make the sports section of British media outlets. The coverage of his death has been pretty proportionate. I also find it pretty unsavoury how many people are falling over themselves on this thread to say they haven’t heard of him.
> When Jeff Lowe died I was interested and moved.
I don’t know what your point is. Some other people might not have heard of Jeff Lowe. Does that mean his death should have gone unreported?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
If I’d have thought about it a bit more - a better analogy would have been Jerry Collins - which probably received a similar level of coverage.
In reply to gazhbo:
> If I’d have thought about it a bit more - a better analogy would have been Jerry Collins - which probably received a similar level of coverage.
Jerry who?
Edit: Ok I googled him. I think what you need as an analogy is a massive superstar in the UK who plays a sport with a very minority followiung in the US. So Wilkinson is probably a good fit, though you probably want a more mainstrem UK sport (ie football, but maybe that is not minority enough in the US - is Beckham any good?)
Post edited at 18:21
In reply to Robert Durran:
> So Wilkinson is probably a good fit, though you probably want a more mainstrem UK sport (ie football, but maybe that is not minority enough in the US - is Beckham any good?)
I was once told by an American that he knew who Beckham was because he had married a Spice Girl.
(Though since then the profile of "soccer" in the US has grown quite a bit.)
Maybe compare to Geoff Boycott or Ian Botham?
In reply to gazhbo:
> I don’t know what your point is. Some other people might not have heard of Jeff Lowe. Does that mean his death should have gone unreported?
Just trying to say that I am not against famous Americans per se. I might think it sloppy if a published news story included a photo of, say, Royal Robbins when it was supposed to be Jeff Lowe, but that would be it.
To be fair I get the point about racism. There was the Aynsley Harriot thing a couple of years ago. For it to be racism, though, the mistake would have to be deliberate.
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