UKC

Not a sport I have any knowledge of, but I could still appreciate the tricks the Olympic ladies (sorry should I say girls, as I think most of them were still school age) were pulling off last night.

However given the number of falls directly into concrete I was surprised that very few were wearing helmets and none that I could see had elbow/knee pads (although some were showing off a nice collection of plasters on their elbows).

​​​​​​I can't help thinking that as in cycling helmets should be a requirement at competition level, not only for their own safety but also to act as role models. I wonder how many parents will now be having their kids argue "why do I need to look silly wearing a helmet infront of my friends when none of the Olympians wear them?" conversations at home.

Don't disagree re: the helmets, though the (at least from memory) gold and silver medal positions both wore helmets did they not?

Not a conversation we have to have in our household as my wife is a head injuries specialist physio. Good luck if you fall into the 'having that chat' category. 

So far as you also think climbers in the Olympics should also wear helmets, swimmers wear flotation devices, cyclists wear stabiliser wheels, gymnasts wear neck protection, etc so they can be role models for children whose parents want to skip their responsibility doing the parenting then all good.

I think for a certain age you need to wear a helmet e.g. First and second were minors 13?

I'd favour helmets for all but watching it they fell off a lot and the sort of tricks they were doing they'd be unlikely to fall on their head, made me think that helmets are most useful when others hit you when you weren't expecting. They certainly get plenty of falling practice! Was a good watch. 

I havent watched the womens, but the men didnt wear helmets either, and I'm sure it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they could screw up on a rail slide and smack their heads on the rail on the way down?

Appreciate the chance of it is low in such skilled performers, but a lot of ppe is used as a 'just in case' situation, no matter how remote, I would have thought?

It's odd. In the seventies wave of skateboarding, everyone wore helmets, even though we didn't for cycling. On a skate park with rails, etc, there are plenty of things to make a mess of your head.

Helmets and pads in street skateboarding (as opposed to the 'park' event which is upcoming) really isn't a thing at all.

In competitions they make competitors under a certain age wear one, but I'm pretty sure they would never wear one outside of a competition setting.

Part of the appeal/thrill/draw of street skateboarding is the fact that it's done without pads or helmets. 

An analogy would be skateboarders questioning why we don't drop down a top rope down instead of doing bold trad leads?

Park / Vert skateboarders wear helmets and pads, it's bit of a different discipline, but in my many years of street skateboarding I never wore a helmet , didn't own one or know anyone who did....  

Check this out  youtube.com/watch?v=lZ3ZDcp-E9I&  

Helmets aren't cool, but neither are brain injuries. 

Don't think it would be good advert for the sport if one of those kids had a preventable life changing brain injury live globally on TV.

Helmets are the least of their worries

https://www.eurosport.com/skateboarding/tokyo-2020/2021/tokyo-2020-that-one...

Don't think I said that it would be.

I'm surprised they don't wear helmets for skateboarding, seeing as it's enforced in some of the other sports - cycling, speed skating, skiing, snowboard, kayaking, etc*.

There's some argument that knee/elbow pads could be awkward to move in, but there are some very thin ones about, like the G-Form ones, that would take the worst off and at least save you some skin.

I say that as the owner of a pair of chipped elbows from a bike crash on tarmac (mechanical failure on hired mtb) - would have had a few nasty grazes on my head, too, if I hadn't been wearing a helmet at the time!

* - actually, I always think figure skating is one where there's a huge risk of a head injury on rock-hard ice if you muck up one of the jumps, but that would look pretty weird with helmets!

I know. But there's no real disadvantage in wearing them and it would be equal if enforced. 

It would completely alienate the International Federation of Skateboarding (or whatever they are called) from just about every skateboarder on earth, many of whom (just like climbing) don't think skateboarding should be in the Olympics, or even be a competitive sport.

Just imagine if the IFSC insisted all competitors did something in competition that they never do in real life?  For example all lead comps are to also have an additional top rope as well as lead rope from now on.  What would the reaction be?

Speed climbing in no way reflects how anyone climbs in real life, but it's still in the Olympics? 

I think likening helmet wearing amongst skateboarders to making lead climbers use a top rope is a bit of a mismatch. I think it’s more similar to sport climbers who choose not to wear a helmet outdoors. Yes, the risk of a head injury is low sport climbing but it can and has happened. Similarly the chance of a head injury skateboarding is low but there’s plenty of stories of skaters who have had severe concussions from slamming into concrete. In both cases, I personally don’t see a reason to not wear a helmet, other than because it doesn’t ‘look cool’.

Before the wave of dislikes, I’m all for taking risks when you’re climbing (or skateboarding) but wearing a helmet seems like little if no inconvenience but may one day stop you having a life changing injury. 

Well apart from all the people who speed climb that is.

Oh I agree completely, you're absolutely right.  I'm just telling it how things are in the world of street skating now.  Perhaps in the future that'll change, but right now literally no adult wears pads or a helmet when street skating.  Like I said in my first post, it's just not a thing.

The helmet wearing amongst skateboarders / making lead climbers use a top rope is a bit of a mismatch but I was trying to get across just how unusual it would be.  Maybe a better analogy would be making climbers wear helmets at indoor comps as literally nobody wears a helmet indoor climbing other than children, occasionally. 

Perhaps for street skateboarding it'll change in the future?  Go back several decades and nobody wore a helmet horse riding, nowadays nobody doesn't, same for skiing, climbing etc...  But I don't think that the way this will change is by helmets being mandated at the Olympics or other competitions by the federation.

FWIW I always wear a helmet when sport climbing outdoors, every single time.  I'm not anti helmet!

If I remember correctly, the OS map cover  for Aberystwyth, in the '70's had a photo of someone kayaking over a waterfall in a long fiberglass boat with no helmet!

There is one notable exception in the world of pretty handy skaters. This guy always wears a helmet:

youtube.com/watch?v=gg1ZMwAAcEg&

Never seen him before but he’s good isn’t he? 

Definite exception in that he wears a helmet, fair play to him!

Yes, and it has alienated many climbers.

Given the opening scenes, a wise choice...

Thankyou. As I said in my OP skateboarding a sport I know nothing about, so I just see big jumps into a hard landings and the scary potential of "brain soup". 

It is difficult to compare with climbing as this is a sport I understand. I can rationally explain to a non climber why helmets are not needed and how despite the spectacular falls the climbers never actually hit anything, so are always fully protected by the rope - and of course with bouldering its a lovely soft landing.

I was thinking about this last night and realised that there's one element of skateboarding that really differs from climbing that we haven't mentioned here, and plays into the helmet/pads debate...

Style!  This so important in skateboarding.  It's not just about doing the hardest trick, it's also about doing it well and looking good whilst you do it, not just in the way you move your body in making the trick, but everything, including, to a small extent, the clothes you wear, the way you roll away from it once you land it... 

In climbing you climb 9a you get the recognition no matter how good (or bad) you looked doing it, the important thing is you made it.  Skateboarding is a little more subjective, every skater has their individual style, and they're judged on it along with what they're doing...

So although this alone doesn't account for the lack of helmet and pads in skateboarding, but I'd imagine it plays into it a little and is a small part of the reason for people's reticence to wear protective gear.

The only time I wore a helmet in the 70's was when the skatepark made it a requirement for entry. Lucky I had a Joffa ice hockey lid otherwise I'd have been stuffed cos my folks didn't 'encourage' skateboarding. 

On Monday morning, on my 60th birthday, I wore a helmet, knee and elbow pads at Livingston skatepark cos I'm terrified of doing myself a serious injury if I fall (both quite likely at my age). 

The concrete of Livi looks pretty unforgiving too!

And still manages to look cool, at least to me!

He's certainly very good, but also quite unusual!

Some of his tricks aren't ones that you see much, and in addition to his helmet he wears wrist protectors and has deck rails too...

Interesting, and that's where my lack of  knowledge of the sport clearly shows. 

I guess that also feeds back to the argument that if helmets were mandatory for all, then their use would have no bearing on the style (or lack thereof) as all competitors would have an equal disadvantage. 

The style thing is really key - there's a pro called Mike Vallely, pretty good skater but once recorded a part for a video where he basically does no tricks at all.  The whole part was just him pushing along the street really fast to a hardcore soundtrack.  Style over substance to the max!

For sure if everyone worse helmets it would level the playing field and be fair to all I'm just giving context to what the culture in skateboarding is like. 

It's got some parallels with climbing, which I drew on earlier, but also some real fundamental differences.

I am puzzled by skateboarding. Mainly by two things:

1. How do people cope mentally with a pastime that seems to consist of 99.99% failure?

2. Given 1., and given the style culture that is described on this thread, why don't concrete skate parks lead to a continuous queue at the local A&Es?

1 Projects in climbing can be like that.

2 They do. 20% of all accidents, and serious head injuries were 3.5% of injuries.

https://www.rospa.com/play-safety/Advice/Skateboarding

When I bought my skateboard in 1977 the shop virtually insisted I bought a helmet too. I did, although I did without knee and elbow pads which were also all the rage back then.

The street punk/counterculture element of boarding seems to have come about much later. 

3. You can spill your coffee... (audio may be NSFW)

youtube.com/watch?v=s8zbXfIiVwg&

1. Because that 00.01 time feels so good

2. Bear in mind that throwing yourself down huge stair sets, grinding hand rails and getting air clean out the top of bowls is the pro end of the spectrum.  By the time you get that good you'll have learned how to safely 'bail' on stuff.  Before all that you've years of rolling around on the flat endlessly trying to ollie or kickflip, grinding tiny kerb sixed objects and rolling slowly around trying to learn stuff.  You get a lot of bruised shins, grazed elbows and knees but hospitalisations are rare!

This is why I love pushing grades bouldering and sport climbing.  I fail most of the time but the feeling when you do get a problem/route is amazing.

1. You can keep trying again and again without running out of skin/ strength / spotters / belayers, and you can hop on your board and have another go at something in 20 seconds without having to wait and recover or perfectly climb up to a crux again. Failure = less faff.

2. You get remarkably good at not falling on your head, and bailing out of things in a way where you don't fall on your head after a while. Well, probably more instinctively really. That, and most injuries are minor.

As touched upon, more skaters in the park events will be wearing helmets. If there was a vert event, they would all be wearing helmets and pads. I don't think this is just a cultural thing either - the likelihood of ending up upside down is far greater, along with greater speeds = the need to slide into things (with pads) when you bail, and more dire consequences for hitting your head. Nevertheless, I can see the olympic street skaters being made to wear helmets in the next couple of years due to public outcry.

And others..thanks for the answers. Interesting.

I need to point out that skateboarding is the most boring sport yet to feature in the olympics. Slightly, no, appreciably behind dressage. 

However we haven't had climbing events yet. That would put Morpheus to sleep.

That's Garrett Hill. He was one of the Olympic judges.

Skateboarding is the best thing ever but I dont think a casual viewer can really appreciate the nuances of what's good and what's not, especially in the street event.

There's no longer, faster, higher that can quantify who is the best. It's 100% subjective and always style over substance. The bowl event will probably be easier to understand to someone new to it to be fair.

(I'd rather watch Gino push)

No one will ever wear a helmet street skating, can't see it happening ever. I fell 8 foot to the dome after smoking loads of ganja and drinking stealla when I was a youngun skating in Bolton all-nighter, a helmet still never crossed my mind.

I would imagine that the risk of a serious head trauma is much greater in the Rugby too and I cant see those chaps wearing a helmet any time soon. 

While I've not skated for quite a few years, as has been pointed out, it's broadly a style and cultural thing.  I can see that it'll get mandated eventually, but you'll still see 99% of skaters out and about not wearing helmets.  I can't see it'll ever get to be a normal thing.  In comps maybe, but outside of that, never.

That Andy Andersen part is amazing, I've never seen him before.  But as has been noted, he's very retro.  Lots of odd tricks, weird setup.  The rails under the deck you can see are *very* old school.  It sent me back to the old Bone Brigade days in a good way.  Also the freestyle section on that concrete plinth thing was beautiful.  Add in all the full on massive rail grinds, the 'gnar'.  That's just so good.

As for the failure question, it's super easy to try again and again and again.  Unless you're really good, then it can take ages to actually learn a trick.  Then even longer till you can actually do them on demand.  I enjoyed it when I was a kid, no sense of the actual risk and plenty of time just to doss around with mates skating where you wanted to go.  When you actually get a trick down, it's an amazing sense of accomplishment.  Even better, when you get a good flow and just do a load of stuff all in one go.  It's a great lifestyle if you can do it.  Not lifestyle, it's not a sport really.

Perfect! Thank god Nyjah didn't take gold.wouldnt have heard the bloody end of it.

All this talk of skateboarding, we should have a ukc meet up!  Hathersage has a surprisingly good park for a little village 😀

I’m just shocked they passed the drugs tests. What self respecting skateboarder doesn’t have a couple of puffs now and again.

Ha! Maybe that’s why there were so many young teens in the competition?!

Come 4 years time I bet a lot of them have decided that comps aren’t their  thing anymore?!

That'd be quite nice actually.  Hathersage is a bit far for me to go tho.

vsisjustascramble and iamgregp - Errr, yes, I thought everyone knew that's why it's a bunch of teens in the comp.  The older skaters won't pass the weed tests.

I'm actually going skateboarding for the first time in about three months  this evening, and can't wait 🙂. Going to the local indoor park, and won't be smoking any weed lol

The older I get, the more I get that, esp bouldering. The concept of receding horizon

I'm surprised Nyjah does!

Watching the park skateboarding  now and I’m a fan!  Never seen contestants  have as much fun and amazing camaraderie.  All wearing helmets (makes sense, seems much higher risk then the street skateboarding).  

And Dinosaur Jr playing !!

And why shouldn't they have fun - after all, most of them have been let off school early.

Seriously though, should children - and most of them are indeed children - be allowed to compete at such a level ?

I wonder about the possible psychological effect that achieving a lifetimes ambition before you've left school will do to their minds when they have so very many decades left to live afterwards.

Yes  

Interestingly, the ‘experts’ where chatting about the lack of stress and pressure at that age can help them perform. Yet another thread on here  about Ben Stokes discussed the pressures etc and it’s effect on mental health. 

They seemed to have tonnes of fun, had great experiences and friendship, probs  developed their confidence - I’m all up for it. And most of them don’t win - they appeared to participate in the best possible spirit. 

Edit: and their lives would be much more boring without it. Life gets way more dull the older you get,!do stuff whilst you’re young. 

Also: Into The Void by Black Sabbath. They now their tunes, Awesome Dudes!

Really? An ambitious, successful youth is having  a fantastic start to life, and let's be honest, we're allowed more than one ambition.

We only get one, short chance at life. Make the most of it 🙂

Whereas all the climbers look like they would - something else these sport types can't get right. Have they no respect for tradition?

  The older skaters won't pass the weed tests.

How old do you want? Rune Glifberg is 46.

For a kind of answer to that question, watch Bones Brigade: An Autobiography.  It's quite long at 2 hours but well worth a watch if you're at all interested in the 80's era of skating. Both Rodney Mullen and Tony Hawk were adversely affected by their success - the closing 20 minutes is very poignant. 

That said, Sky Brown's ride yesterday was fantastic to watch (as were the rest of the finalists), especially considering a year ago she had a fractured skull! It's lovely to see the joy these kids show when their competitors put in a good ride. 

i will say that i saw the skateboard street and said to my partner how i was glad that the competition was still being run without the requirement for helmets to be worn since if you like to skate without a helmet then its your choice and to be honest, i know it sounds stupid but good skaters know 'how to fall' (obviously accidents happen, im not saying dont wear a helmet). pretty sure the children were wearing helmets and i dont disagree with that being a rule

I did not know that Rune Glifberg was in the Olympics.  That's actually pretty cool.  I vaguely saw that young lass won a medal.  That was nice for her.  As you can probably tell I don't really watch sport on TV, so the Olympics rather passes me by.

Interestingly enough Mike Vallely now wears a helmet:

https://www.fatherly.com/play/legendary-skateboarder-mike-vallely-wants-kid...

He was mentioned earlier in the thread.  Here's the video part if you're interested:

youtube.com/watch?v=259GLf7NDmM&

Just watching the park and one of the guys falls off and his helmet strap is that lose that when he stands its being worn as a necklace - bad PPE is worse than no PPE.

I actually think its quite refreshing that they allow skateboarders the choice due to the fact that its a 'street' sport thats all about pushing boundaries and norms. Dont get me wrong, I pretty much always wear a helmet for climbing. But I like the fact that perhaps the Olympics are respecting the history of skateboarding and giving them choice rather than pushing rules on them.