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So, the DUP are going to prop up the Tories allowing them to form a government.
May is still PM and will push for a hard BREXIT.
Has anything actually changed after last nights election or has it all been a told waste of time ?
Feeling a little deflated after the hysteria the media were banding about this morning.
Post edited at 14:54
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In reply to handofgod:
But whilst the DUP are pro Brexit, they are more keen on remaining in the single market, so maybe not a soft or a hard Brexit, but a semi- Brexit ( plus a caseload of cash for their pet projects)
> So, the DUP are going to prop up the Tories allowing them to form a government. May is still PM and will push for a hard BREXIT.Has anything actually changed after last nights election or has it all been a told waste of time ?Feeling a little deflated after the hysteria the media were banding about this morning.
But whilst the DUP are pro Brexit, they are more keen on remaining in the single market, so maybe not a soft or a hard Brexit, but a semi- Brexit ( plus a caseload of cash for their pet projects)
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In reply to handofgod:
Its all fine everthing is strong and stable, no sign of any coallition of chaos. Nothing to see move along.
Its all fine everthing is strong and stable, no sign of any coallition of chaos. Nothing to see move along.
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In reply to handofgod:
Well, it's probably a pretty bad time to be a gay fox suffering from an unwanted pregnancy.
Well, it's probably a pretty bad time to be a gay fox suffering from an unwanted pregnancy.
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In reply to Jim C:
Apparently not,sadly. Duppers are ideologically descendants of Ian paisley, and he seems to have hated Brussels almost as much as he hated Rome. So it's still next stop hard brexit, with some even more fanatical hard liners on the team...
> But whilst the DUP are pro Brexit, they are more keen on remaining in the single market, so maybe not a soft or a hard Brexit, but a semi- Brexit
Apparently not,sadly. Duppers are ideologically descendants of Ian paisley, and he seems to have hated Brussels almost as much as he hated Rome. So it's still next stop hard brexit, with some even more fanatical hard liners on the team...
Post edited at 15:21
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
What a motley crew we have assembled here to represent our once great nation.
What a motley crew we have assembled here to represent our once great nation.
Post edited at 15:24
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In reply to MG:
I wouldn't be so sure - did you know that foxes swarmed here en-masse about 10,000 years ago, walking across our UNDEFENDED BORDER WITH FRANCE. And hardly any of them took out health insurance to cover the long periods they spent out of work.
I wouldn't be so sure - did you know that foxes swarmed here en-masse about 10,000 years ago, walking across our UNDEFENDED BORDER WITH FRANCE. And hardly any of them took out health insurance to cover the long periods they spent out of work.
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In reply to handofgod:
Roll on a shed load of By-elections, this June or July will do just fine.
(in marginal Tory seats, obviously )
> What a motley crew we have assembled here to represent our once great nation.
Roll on a shed load of By-elections, this June or July will do just fine.
(in marginal Tory seats, obviously )
Post edited at 16:52
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In reply to handofgod:
Give it time, you know what it's like, "I'm staying to steer us through this difficult time...blah blah blah."
Then it's "after careful consideration,..... thank you and goodnight"
Give it time, you know what it's like, "I'm staying to steer us through this difficult time...blah blah blah."
Then it's "after careful consideration,..... thank you and goodnight"
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Are you sure about that?
I'm no expert on the DUP, before this morning the only thing I could have told you about them was that they're unionists. But everything I've read today suggested that they would push for a softer Brexit.
Are you sure about that?
I'm no expert on the DUP, before this morning the only thing I could have told you about them was that they're unionists. But everything I've read today suggested that they would push for a softer Brexit.
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In reply to Luke90:
They will push for a minimal border with Ireland - that may entail being in a customs union which may also mean some form of free movement and following ECJ rules (e..g that protect EU citizens in UK and arbitrate on trade)
... which they may grumble about?
They will push for a minimal border with Ireland - that may entail being in a customs union which may also mean some form of free movement and following ECJ rules (e..g that protect EU citizens in UK and arbitrate on trade)
... which they may grumble about?
Post edited at 19:16
In reply to handofgod:
I'm not sure how long this "it's all fine, I'll just grab a few votes off the DUP to make up a little shortfall" tactic can last. The rest of the UK are going to see what a bunch of horrible bigots they are, and TM's going to have to be sucking up to them. Can we stomach that, or will it be a final nail hammered pretty promptly into her coffin?
I'm not sure how long this "it's all fine, I'll just grab a few votes off the DUP to make up a little shortfall" tactic can last. The rest of the UK are going to see what a bunch of horrible bigots they are, and TM's going to have to be sucking up to them. Can we stomach that, or will it be a final nail hammered pretty promptly into her coffin?
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
For the stability of the peace process in Ireland the government should remain neutral. Taking sides with the unionists endangers it.
e.g. see:
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/873254684471033856
For the stability of the peace process in Ireland the government should remain neutral. Taking sides with the unionists endangers it.
e.g. see:
https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/873254684471033856
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
Before sticking her in the coffin best to drive a stake through her heart (if it can be located) just to be on the safe side.
> Can we stomach that, or will it be a final nail hammered pretty promptly into her coffin?
Before sticking her in the coffin best to drive a stake through her heart (if it can be located) just to be on the safe side.
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In reply to Malarkey:
That's a very interesting point.
> For the stability of the peace process in Ireland the government should remain neutral. Taking sides with the unionists endangers it.e.g. see:https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/873254684471033856
That's a very interesting point.
In reply to Malarkey:
Yes, the message this sends to the people on the other side of the peace process upsets me far more than either (a) the rank hipocracy of wrongly siding with the DUP after rightly calling out Corbyn and Abbot's extremely ill advised links to the IRA and (b) the awfulness of the DUPs view on basically everything.
> For the stability of the peace process in Ireland the government should remain neutral. Taking sides with the unionists endangers it
Yes, the message this sends to the people on the other side of the peace process upsets me far more than either (a) the rank hipocracy of wrongly siding with the DUP after rightly calling out Corbyn and Abbot's extremely ill advised links to the IRA and (b) the awfulness of the DUPs view on basically everything.
Post edited at 09:56
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In reply to Scotch Bingington:
In my opinion, it is this kind of hate plastered all over social media and here that stopped many undecided voting for Labour.
I was Tory before the election but was tempted by the Labour manifesto however once the Labour echo chamber appeared on Facebook I switched back. Most of the posts were about how wicked the Tories were and nothing about what Labour were? actually going to do. If you want me to support you, tell me about how good you are not about how bad your opponents are.
> Before sticking her in the coffin best to drive a stake through her heart (if it can be located) just to be on the safe side.
In my opinion, it is this kind of hate plastered all over social media and here that stopped many undecided voting for Labour.
I was Tory before the election but was tempted by the Labour manifesto however once the Labour echo chamber appeared on Facebook I switched back. Most of the posts were about how wicked the Tories were and nothing about what Labour were? actually going to do. If you want me to support you, tell me about how good you are not about how bad your opponents are.
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In reply to radddogg:
That's a pity. One suggestion would be simply to ignore Facebook etc. Of course there are bastards around - but they exist on all sides.
You could/should have tried to judge that from the manifestos: they made the alternatives very clear.
> I was Tory before the election but was tempted by the Labour manifesto however once the Labour echo chamber appeared on Facebook I switched back.
That's a pity. One suggestion would be simply to ignore Facebook etc. Of course there are bastards around - but they exist on all sides.
> If you want me to support you, tell me about how good you are ...
You could/should have tried to judge that from the manifestos: they made the alternatives very clear.
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In reply to Rob Parsons:
The problem is, trying to judge a party by its manifesto is like trying to judge the meal you're going to get from the menu photos in a greasy spoon.
> That's a pity. One suggestion would be simply to ignore Facebook etc. Of course there are bastards around - but they exist on all sides.You could/should have tried to judge that from the manifestos: they made the alternatives very clear.
The problem is, trying to judge a party by its manifesto is like trying to judge the meal you're going to get from the menu photos in a greasy spoon.
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In reply to Stichtplate:
I don't agree with your characterization. Manifestos might not be delivered to the letter, but as statements of intent and aspiration they are generally pretty clear. The choice in the election we've just had was quite stark in that regard.
I don't agree with your characterization. Manifestos might not be delivered to the letter, but as statements of intent and aspiration they are generally pretty clear. The choice in the election we've just had was quite stark in that regard.
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In reply to handofgod:
Pretty amazed about Mays speech outside Number 10. Head in the sand or what!?
Pretty amazed about Mays speech outside Number 10. Head in the sand or what!?
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In reply to Rob Parsons:
I understand your point, but my feeling is that on a broader scale the masses no longer trust the political and cultural elites. In the last couple of years voters across the West have turned against the expectations of pundits and insiders. Widespread distrust of manifesto promises is just another facet of this.
> I don't agree with your characterization. Manifestos might not be delivered to the letter, but as statements of intent and aspiration they are generally pretty clear. The choice in the election we've just had was quite stark in that regard.
I understand your point, but my feeling is that on a broader scale the masses no longer trust the political and cultural elites. In the last couple of years voters across the West have turned against the expectations of pundits and insiders. Widespread distrust of manifesto promises is just another facet of this.
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In reply to Stichtplate:
I think this is something Corbyn may have tapped into - he comes across as principled and trustworthy (agreeing with his politics is a separate issue).
> I understand your point, but my feeling is that on a broader scale the masses no longer trust the political and cultural elites.
I think this is something Corbyn may have tapped into - he comes across as principled and trustworthy (agreeing with his politics is a separate issue).
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In reply to radddogg:
So you decided to go back to the party of Lynton Crosby?!
> If you want me to support you, tell me about how good you are not about how bad your opponents are.
So you decided to go back to the party of Lynton Crosby?!
Post edited at 11:40
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In reply to Lemony:
The debacle of this election might deflate the myth of Lynton Crosby, I hope. Whatever magic touch he is supposed to have clearly didn't work very well on this occasion.
> So you decided to go back to the party of Lynton Crosby?!
The debacle of this election might deflate the myth of Lynton Crosby, I hope. Whatever magic touch he is supposed to have clearly didn't work very well on this occasion.
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
It's not all doom and gloom. Think how happy the more moderate, pro-EU MPs are going to be about this situation, not just about Brexit but about being in cahoots with the DUP. There'll be trouble within the ranks, particularly from the Scottish Tories who will be vocal and confident.
> Apparently not,sadly. Duppers are ideologically descendants of Ian paisley, and he seems to have hated Brussels almost as much as he hated Rome. So it's still next stop hard brexit, with some even more fanatical hard liners on the team...
It's not all doom and gloom. Think how happy the more moderate, pro-EU MPs are going to be about this situation, not just about Brexit but about being in cahoots with the DUP. There'll be trouble within the ranks, particularly from the Scottish Tories who will be vocal and confident.
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In reply to Rob Parsons:
And the Sun...
> The debacle of this election might deflate the myth of Lynton Crosby, I hope. Whatever magic touch he is supposed to have clearly didn't work very well on this occasion.
And the Sun...
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In reply to radddogg:
May is an extremely nasty and dangerous character. She deserves all the hate she's getting.
> In my opinion, it is this kind of hate plastered all over social media and here that stopped many undecided voting for Labour.
> I was Tory before the election but was tempted by the Labour manifesto however once the Labour echo chamber appeared on Facebook I switched back. Most of the posts were about how wicked the Tories were and nothing about what Labour were? actually going to do. If you want me to support you, tell me about how good you are not about how bad your opponents are.
May is an extremely nasty and dangerous character. She deserves all the hate she's getting.
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In reply to Malarkey:
I agree, what a great way to bolster the peace agreement, I think it's stronger than that, hopefully, but it's not going to help things.
Sinn Féin should come to parliament and vote the opposite of the DUP just out of spite
> For the stability of the peace process in Ireland the government should remain neutral. Taking sides with the unionists endangers it.e.g.
I agree, what a great way to bolster the peace agreement, I think it's stronger than that, hopefully, but it's not going to help things.
Sinn Féin should come to parliament and vote the opposite of the DUP just out of spite
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In reply to radddogg:
Blimey!! you let yourself be swayed by a number of silly tw*ts on Facebook?
How do you feel about the media's attempted assassination of JC?
What a strange way to select your government.
> In my opinion, it is this kind of hate plastered all over social media and here that stopped many undecided voting for Labour.I was Tory before the election but was tempted by the Labour manifesto however once the Labour echo chamber appeared on Facebook I switched back.
Blimey!! you let yourself be swayed by a number of silly tw*ts on Facebook?
How do you feel about the media's attempted assassination of JC?
What a strange way to select your government.
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In reply to Trevers:
I spent most of the election hearing on the one hand that the wealthy are going to pay for all the lovely pay rises and improved services and free tuition* and on the other from my FB feed that it's time we got rid of all the rich c*nts.
Until the left squares this circle it doesn't feel very sustainable, does it?
* to be fair neither Corbyn nor McDonnell ever got round to explaining how Labour was going to pay for this humongous bribe to the young voter as it was added after the manifesto was published without any attempt at financial reason.
> May is an extremely nasty and dangerous character. She deserves all the hate she's getting.
I spent most of the election hearing on the one hand that the wealthy are going to pay for all the lovely pay rises and improved services and free tuition* and on the other from my FB feed that it's time we got rid of all the rich c*nts.
Until the left squares this circle it doesn't feel very sustainable, does it?
* to be fair neither Corbyn nor McDonnell ever got round to explaining how Labour was going to pay for this humongous bribe to the young voter as it was added after the manifesto was published without any attempt at financial reason.
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In reply to BnB:
I haven't seen anyone on my facebook saying anything along those lines. Please don't tar everyone on the left with the same brush.
I make no apologies for my contempt of May, and should make it clear that these feelings don't extend to all Tory MPs or voters. Her actions since the election point to the true depravity of her character.
> I spent most of the election hearing on the one hand that the wealthy are going to pay for all the lovely pay rises and improved services and free tuition* and on the other from my FB feed that it's time we got rid of all the rich c*nts.
> Until the left squares this circle it doesn't feel very sustainable, does it?
> * to be fair neither Corbyn nor McDonnell ever got round to explaining how Labour was going to pay for this humongous bribe to the young voter as it was added after the manifesto was published without any attempt at financial reason.
I haven't seen anyone on my facebook saying anything along those lines. Please don't tar everyone on the left with the same brush.
I make no apologies for my contempt of May, and should make it clear that these feelings don't extend to all Tory MPs or voters. Her actions since the election point to the true depravity of her character.
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In reply to Trevers:
Why don't you engage with my point instead of trying to deflect by imagining a personal slur that isn't there. Labour can't win if they don't address this paradox.
I don't think May has fans anywhere right now
Why don't you engage with my point instead of trying to deflect by imagining a personal slur that isn't there. Labour can't win if they don't address this paradox.
I don't think May has fans anywhere right now
Post edited at 19:19
In reply to BnB:
I know from your posts that you have informed views and engage constructively. However I didn't particularly feel there was much to engage with in your last one. It came across as though you were generalising all young, leftist voters as angry anti-capitalists. It's likely that my previous post gave the impression that I approve of online attacks against Tories in general, which I don't. Only that I feel not the slightest shred of sympathy for May.
> Why don't you engage with my point instead of trying to deflect by imagining a personal slur that isn't there.
I know from your posts that you have informed views and engage constructively. However I didn't particularly feel there was much to engage with in your last one. It came across as though you were generalising all young, leftist voters as angry anti-capitalists. It's likely that my previous post gave the impression that I approve of online attacks against Tories in general, which I don't. Only that I feel not the slightest shred of sympathy for May.
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In reply to Trevers:
I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought you guilty of any such thing. I don't. Although I'm baffled that you're unaware of the level of FB abuse. I'm a businessman in his mid 50s and my middle aged left wing friends are all sharing the vilification around.
Your post was merely a handy launching pad for my point. If anyone is stirring it up, it's the Labour leadership. And it will serve them well right up until the moment they attain power. And then it will become an albatross they can't shake off. Do you think Corbyn will soften his message to business now he's a contender rather than a pretender?
I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought you guilty of any such thing. I don't. Although I'm baffled that you're unaware of the level of FB abuse. I'm a businessman in his mid 50s and my middle aged left wing friends are all sharing the vilification around.
Your post was merely a handy launching pad for my point. If anyone is stirring it up, it's the Labour leadership. And it will serve them well right up until the moment they attain power. And then it will become an albatross they can't shake off. Do you think Corbyn will soften his message to business now he's a contender rather than a pretender?
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In reply to BnB:
I know that you're a a businessman and I thank you for your contributions from that perspective, you have given me plenty of arguments to ponder over.
I am aware of the facebook abuse. I'm not aware that it's anywhere near as endemic as you suggest, and I don't believe that it's a purely leftist phenomenon. Perhaps on facebook it is mostly left-leaning folk engaging in it, but that might just be the medium. Consider for example the appalling abuse that Gina Miller and Diane Abbott have been subjected to online. I'm not saying it's acceptable because both sides engage in it, it isn't, but I don't think it's purely or even predominantly one sided.
I do believe Corbyn will soften his message. Did you see his answer to a concerned business owner on the Question Time special? He certainly appeared to to be reaching out, although you are better placed than me to say whether the detail of his answer was convincing.
I think Corbyn has definitely matured politically over the course of this campaign. I initially voted for him in the first leadership contest but then went off him. My concerns were that he couldn't lead, couldn't reach compromise with those with differing views. placed sentiment ahead of detail, seemed often absent in daily political life and couldn't get his message across to the wider public through the noise of the hostile media. For me he's answered those concerns magnificently, and I hope he continues in the same way. I do wonder though if he's at his best when he's pumped up for a campaign.
> I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought you guilty of any such thing. I don't. Although I'm baffled that you're unaware of the level of FB abuse. I'm a businessman in his mid 50s and my middle aged left wing friends are all sharing the vilification around.
> Your post was merely a handy launching pad for my point. If anyone is stirring it up, it's the Labour leadership. And it will serve them well right up until the moment they attain power. And then it will become an albatross they can't shake off. Do you think Corbyn will soften his message to business now he's a contender rather than a pretender?
I know that you're a a businessman and I thank you for your contributions from that perspective, you have given me plenty of arguments to ponder over.
I am aware of the facebook abuse. I'm not aware that it's anywhere near as endemic as you suggest, and I don't believe that it's a purely leftist phenomenon. Perhaps on facebook it is mostly left-leaning folk engaging in it, but that might just be the medium. Consider for example the appalling abuse that Gina Miller and Diane Abbott have been subjected to online. I'm not saying it's acceptable because both sides engage in it, it isn't, but I don't think it's purely or even predominantly one sided.
I do believe Corbyn will soften his message. Did you see his answer to a concerned business owner on the Question Time special? He certainly appeared to to be reaching out, although you are better placed than me to say whether the detail of his answer was convincing.
I think Corbyn has definitely matured politically over the course of this campaign. I initially voted for him in the first leadership contest but then went off him. My concerns were that he couldn't lead, couldn't reach compromise with those with differing views. placed sentiment ahead of detail, seemed often absent in daily political life and couldn't get his message across to the wider public through the noise of the hostile media. For me he's answered those concerns magnificently, and I hope he continues in the same way. I do wonder though if he's at his best when he's pumped up for a campaign.
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In reply to Trevers:
I suspect it's more that he was at his best when his MPs were forced to suspend their campaign against him and the media were forced to give him airtime by an election campaign. Will be interesting to see how both the PLP and the media react now that he's proven to be popular with a fairly large slice of the electorate.
> I think Corbyn has definitely matured politically over the course of this campaign. I initially voted for him in the first leadership contest but then went off him. My concerns were that he couldn't lead, couldn't reach compromise with those with differing views. placed sentiment ahead of detail, seemed often absent in daily political life and couldn't get his message across to the wider public through the noise of the hostile media. For me he's answered those concerns magnificently, and I hope he continues in the same way. I do wonder though if he's at his best when he's pumped up for a campaign.
I suspect it's more that he was at his best when his MPs were forced to suspend their campaign against him and the media were forced to give him airtime by an election campaign. Will be interesting to see how both the PLP and the media react now that he's proven to be popular with a fairly large slice of the electorate.
Post edited at 22:14
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In reply to Ciro:
I think those are some good arguments. I think at least in the short term, the PLP will rally round him. He'll be given a second chance to assert his authority in the party. Of course this is a challenge he will have to rise to. My hope is that there'll be a shadow cabinet reshuffle and he'll bring in some of the talent from the broader party. If they work together, great things can be achieved. And I suspect the media will quieten down for a while and not be quite so brazenly hateful towards him, although I expect they will shortly begin to focus on his political performance and won't be forgiving. I imagine we've heard the last of the IRA smears.
> I suspect it's more that he was at his best when his MPs were forced to suspend their campaign against him and the media were forced to give him airtime by an election campaign. Will be interesting to see how both the PLP and the media react now that he's proven to be popular with a fairly large slice of the electorate.
I think those are some good arguments. I think at least in the short term, the PLP will rally round him. He'll be given a second chance to assert his authority in the party. Of course this is a challenge he will have to rise to. My hope is that there'll be a shadow cabinet reshuffle and he'll bring in some of the talent from the broader party. If they work together, great things can be achieved. And I suspect the media will quieten down for a while and not be quite so brazenly hateful towards him, although I expect they will shortly begin to focus on his political performance and won't be forgiving. I imagine we've heard the last of the IRA smears.
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In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:
Yep, but I reckon she was swiftly told to change her tune by the Tory grandees. Listen to the BBC interview from a few hours later. She just regurgitates answer after answer (none of them actually being answers), saying how sorry she is that good people lost their seats. The Maybot in full flow.
What is truly amazing is that whilst the power sharing deal in NI is very fragile, she will jump into bed with those loons from across the water, thereby threatening peace in the province to save her own skin.
Not only is it psychotic, but also hypocritical. You can't tell Putin to stop gay bashing, then rely on gay bashers who blocked rights for gay people despite against the will of its own people.
> Pretty amazed about Mays speech outside Number 10. Head in the sand or what!?
Yep, but I reckon she was swiftly told to change her tune by the Tory grandees. Listen to the BBC interview from a few hours later. She just regurgitates answer after answer (none of them actually being answers), saying how sorry she is that good people lost their seats. The Maybot in full flow.
What is truly amazing is that whilst the power sharing deal in NI is very fragile, she will jump into bed with those loons from across the water, thereby threatening peace in the province to save her own skin.
Not only is it psychotic, but also hypocritical. You can't tell Putin to stop gay bashing, then rely on gay bashers who blocked rights for gay people despite against the will of its own people.
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In reply to Ciro:
How much of Corbyns new ould 'popularity' is down to him, or his manifesto, and how much is it due to May becoming very unpopular and allowed a suicide manifesto to be released increasing Corbyn's 'popularity'
In the cold light of day, I would not vote for either of them.
> ..now that he's proven to be popular with a fairly large slice of the electorate.
How much of Corbyns new ould 'popularity' is down to him, or his manifesto, and how much is it due to May becoming very unpopular and allowed a suicide manifesto to be released increasing Corbyn's 'popularity'
In the cold light of day, I would not vote for either of them.
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In reply to Jim C:
Labour are polling above the Conservatives now. The last few days are not covering the Blue team in glory.
Actually this is very serious. Negotiations start in a week - who will lead them? Theresa May? Will she be there e remainder of the two years - seems unlikely. So we get 5, 6 months in and you get .... Someone else who wants different things - so how are negotiations meant to proceed when the UK doesn't have stable objectives over the negotiating period.
Theresa May will be damned by history - she wasted 3 months of the 2 years on a vanity election which has backfired and left the UK very exposed. Strong and stable my asre!
Labour are polling above the Conservatives now. The last few days are not covering the Blue team in glory.
Actually this is very serious. Negotiations start in a week - who will lead them? Theresa May? Will she be there e remainder of the two years - seems unlikely. So we get 5, 6 months in and you get .... Someone else who wants different things - so how are negotiations meant to proceed when the UK doesn't have stable objectives over the negotiating period.
Theresa May will be damned by history - she wasted 3 months of the 2 years on a vanity election which has backfired and left the UK very exposed. Strong and stable my asre!
Post edited at 11:12
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In reply to wbo:
Yep it was a close run thing, a few more weeks and we really might have been in bigger trouble than we are with Corbyn as PM, instead of May.
I think he will be relieved that he did not win and does not have to deliver on that manifesto, having promised so much go the young, it would be a bitter dissapointment to them.
> Labour are polling above the Conservatives now. The last few days are not covering the Blue team in glory.
Yep it was a close run thing, a few more weeks and we really might have been in bigger trouble than we are with Corbyn as PM, instead of May.
I think he will be relieved that he did not win and does not have to deliver on that manifesto, having promised so much go the young, it would be a bitter dissapointment to them.
Post edited at 11:14
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In reply to Jim C:
There's still hope ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40237813
> Yep it was a close run thing, a few more weeks and we really might have been in bigger trouble than we are with Corbyn as PM, instead of May.
There's still hope ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40237813
In reply to Hugh J:
She's exposed now. Everyone can see what a nasty little hypocrite she is. The Emperor has no clothes. Watching her destruction is going to be pleasant viewing!
> What is truly amazing is that whilst the power sharing deal in NI is very fragile, she will jump into bed with those loons from across the water, thereby threatening peace in the province to save her own skin.
> Not only is it psychotic, but also hypocritical. You can't tell Putin to stop gay bashing, then rely on gay bashers who blocked rights for gay people despite against the will of its own people.
She's exposed now. Everyone can see what a nasty little hypocrite she is. The Emperor has no clothes. Watching her destruction is going to be pleasant viewing!
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In reply to wbo:
Someone on QT the other night, Armando Iannucci I think, suggested that we should send a cross-party negotiating team, meaning that whatever deal is reached has some support of all major parties. And then once the two years is up (or possibly longer is the EU agrees), we have another general election.
The idea has merit, I just wonder whether our politicians have the maturity to see that.
> Actually this is very serious. Negotiations start in a week - who will lead them? Theresa May? Will she be there e remainder of the two years - seems unlikely. So we get 5, 6 months in and you get .... Someone else who wants different things - so how are negotiations meant to proceed when the UK doesn't have stable objectives over the negotiating period.
Someone on QT the other night, Armando Iannucci I think, suggested that we should send a cross-party negotiating team, meaning that whatever deal is reached has some support of all major parties. And then once the two years is up (or possibly longer is the EU agrees), we have another general election.
The idea has merit, I just wonder whether our politicians have the maturity to see that.
Post edited at 12:45
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In reply to Trevers:
A second chance or a first? The last time he tried to create a broad cabinet, they engineered a mass resignation to try to oust him. You're right, he has to try again - I can't help feeling it's a bit of a gamble though... I guess we'll find out if they can be trusted this time.
> I think those are some good arguments. I think at least in the short term, the PLP will rally round him. He'll be given a second chance to assert his authority in the party. Of course this is a challenge he will have to rise to. My hope is that there'll be a shadow cabinet reshuffle and he'll bring in some of the talent from the broader party. If they work together, great things can be achieved.
A second chance or a first? The last time he tried to create a broad cabinet, they engineered a mass resignation to try to oust him. You're right, he has to try again - I can't help feeling it's a bit of a gamble though... I guess we'll find out if they can be trusted this time.
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In reply to Jim C:
Yes, I imagine the last thing he wants years of working to bring about change to result in, is the chance to implement change.
> I think he will be relieved that he did not win and does not have to deliver on that manifesto, having promised so much go the young, it would be a bitter dissapointment to them.
Yes, I imagine the last thing he wants years of working to bring about change to result in, is the chance to implement change.
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In reply to Jim C:
I guess that remains to be seen. On the one hand, failure to beat a shambolic tory party with a cardboard cut out for a leader looks bad. On the other hand, given the position the previous leadership, the infighting after his election, and the perceived wisdom that he was entirely unelectable had brought the party to, the last couple of months have seen a meteoric rise. The close nature of the election is surely going to change the nature of the debate around austerity politics. Public opinion may well be in the middle of a big swing.
> How much of Corbyns new ould 'popularity' is down to him, or his manifesto, and how much is it due to May becoming very unpopular and allowed a suicide manifesto to be released increasing Corbyn's 'popularity'
I guess that remains to be seen. On the one hand, failure to beat a shambolic tory party with a cardboard cut out for a leader looks bad. On the other hand, given the position the previous leadership, the infighting after his election, and the perceived wisdom that he was entirely unelectable had brought the party to, the last couple of months have seen a meteoric rise. The close nature of the election is surely going to change the nature of the debate around austerity politics. Public opinion may well be in the middle of a big swing.
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In reply to Ciro:
Well one of their main arguments - that only a centrist party could win power, and that a left-wing party would go down like a lead balloon with the electorate - had been thoroughly discredited.
> A second chance or a first? The last time he tried to create a broad cabinet, they engineered a mass resignation to try to oust him. You're right, he has to try again - I can't help feeling it's a bit of a gamble though... I guess we'll find out if they can be trusted this time.
Well one of their main arguments - that only a centrist party could win power, and that a left-wing party would go down like a lead balloon with the electorate - had been thoroughly discredited.
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In reply to handofgod: when your best offerings are Theresa May and Boris Johnson trying to scare people with scary Jeremy Corbyn doesn't look to clever..... Meantime.....
https://mobile.twitter.com/eucopresident/status/873098422726701056?ref_src=...
https://mobile.twitter.com/eucopresident/status/873098422726701056?ref_src=...
In reply to Trevers:
It was an undeliverable vote-grabbing manifesto from a team that could afford to dream. And a smart move tactically to secure the youth vote for the next election. As others have mentioned, those smiles Friday reflect his vindication as leader but also betray his relief at not having won .
If Corbyn is the man you would have him be, he now faces an agonising moral choice: does he repeat the pledges and bring on an economic disaster which he cannot pin on the 5%, thus killing socialism for a generation, or absorb some common sense from the centre and produce a more balanced prospectus. What would you do?
> Well one of their main arguments - that only a centrist party could win power, and that a left-wing party would go down like a lead balloon with the electorate - had been thoroughly discredited.
It was an undeliverable vote-grabbing manifesto from a team that could afford to dream. And a smart move tactically to secure the youth vote for the next election. As others have mentioned, those smiles Friday reflect his vindication as leader but also betray his relief at not having won .
If Corbyn is the man you would have him be, he now faces an agonising moral choice: does he repeat the pledges and bring on an economic disaster which he cannot pin on the 5%, thus killing socialism for a generation, or absorb some common sense from the centre and produce a more balanced prospectus. What would you do?
In reply to BnB:
You keep making that economic doomsday forecast, yet many leading economists disagree with your expert opinion.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto...
I reckon i'll go with the opinion of the 120 people in that letter rather than yours. Nothing personal, just basic common sense
> If Corbyn is the man you would have him be, he now faces an agonising moral choice: does he repeat the pledges and bring on an economic disaster
You keep making that economic doomsday forecast, yet many leading economists disagree with your expert opinion.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto...
> What would you do?
I reckon i'll go with the opinion of the 120 people in that letter rather than yours. Nothing personal, just basic common sense
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In reply to BnB:
I suspect (I may be wrong) that specific policies such as tuition fees had little to do with the overall result. The youth were never going to vote Tory, and the large turnout was (I believe) due to the widely optimistic campaign and a wish to punish the Tories for a negative campaign.
I hope that some of the more costly proposals are removed or watered down (if there is a second election), while maintaining the general thrust of the manifesto. Reduce the increase in CT, focus on single market membership for Brexit (something which will find common ground with other parties and many Tory MPs). This should be part of the reconciliatory process with the PLP.
> It was an undeliverable vote-grabbing manifesto from a team that could afford to dream. And a smart move tactically to secure the youth vote for the next election. As others have mentioned, those smiles Friday reflect his vindication as leader but also betray his relief at not having won .
> If Corbyn is the man you would have him be, he now faces an agonising moral choice: does he repeat the pledges and bring on an economic disaster which he cannot pin on the 5%, thus killing socialism for a generation, or absorb some common sense from the centre and produce a more balanced prospectus. What would you do?
I suspect (I may be wrong) that specific policies such as tuition fees had little to do with the overall result. The youth were never going to vote Tory, and the large turnout was (I believe) due to the widely optimistic campaign and a wish to punish the Tories for a negative campaign.
I hope that some of the more costly proposals are removed or watered down (if there is a second election), while maintaining the general thrust of the manifesto. Reduce the increase in CT, focus on single market membership for Brexit (something which will find common ground with other parties and many Tory MPs). This should be part of the reconciliatory process with the PLP.
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In reply to Scotch Bingington:
I would keep the stake for others who may need to be shafted. No point in seriously damaging the stake now.
I would keep the stake for others who may need to be shafted. No point in seriously damaging the stake now.
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In reply to Trevers:
On the contrary, I agree with the Economist that there is a big demand for a centrist party. Whilst JC has definitely gained traction, I think the scale of tactical voting in this election has been underestimated by the commentators.
On the contrary, I agree with the Economist that there is a big demand for a centrist party. Whilst JC has definitely gained traction, I think the scale of tactical voting in this election has been underestimated by the commentators.
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In reply to Mr Lopez:
Looking at the list of names, I'm reminded of the saying: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
It's not that they are bad policies. I'd like to see several of them implemented. It's the notion that only 5% of the population is going to pay for them that beggars belief. And not just because the tuition fee bribe was added post-manifesto without any attempt to explain where the money is coming from.
> You keep making that economic doomsday forecast, yet many leading economists disagree with your expert opinion. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto... reckon i'll go with the opinion of the 120 people in that letter rather than yours. Nothing personal, just basic common sense
Looking at the list of names, I'm reminded of the saying: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
It's not that they are bad policies. I'd like to see several of them implemented. It's the notion that only 5% of the population is going to pay for them that beggars belief. And not just because the tuition fee bribe was added post-manifesto without any attempt to explain where the money is coming from.
Post edited at 15:15
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In reply to Trevers:
Some good sense there. I was disappointed to see that Corbyn appeared to rule out single market membership this morning. I think he should have a good think before defining policy.
> I suspect (I may be wrong) that specific policies such as tuition fees had little to do with the overall result. The youth were never going to vote Tory, and the large turnout was (I believe) due to the widely optimistic campaign and a wish to punish the Tories for a negative campaign.I hope that some of the more costly proposals are removed or watered down (if there is a second election), while maintaining the general thrust of the manifesto. Reduce the increase in CT, focus on single market membership for Brexit (something which will find common ground with other parties and many Tory MPs). This should be part of the reconciliatory process with the PLP.
Some good sense there. I was disappointed to see that Corbyn appeared to rule out single market membership this morning. I think he should have a good think before defining policy.
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In reply to BnB:
Sums up perfectly the credibility of your predictions
> Looking at the list of names, I'm reminded of the saying: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
Sums up perfectly the credibility of your predictions
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In reply to Mr Lopez:
Indeed, many economists have said investment is the only way out of the mess created by the greedy and that austerity is just a road to ineffectual pain.
> You keep making that economic doomsday forecast, yet many leading economists disagree with your expert opinion.
Indeed, many economists have said investment is the only way out of the mess created by the greedy and that austerity is just a road to ineffectual pain.
Post edited at 20:12
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In reply to krikoman:
The silly tw*ts weren't just on Facebook
> Blimey!! you let yourself be swayed by a number of silly tw*ts on Facebook?
The silly tw*ts weren't just on Facebook
In reply to BnB:
You possibly either need to meet better teachers, or not forget the good ones you meet.
> Looking at the list of names, I'm reminded of the saying: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
You possibly either need to meet better teachers, or not forget the good ones you meet.
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