In reply to Stichtplate:
> Surprisingly enough, I'm in full agreement with you. What sticks in my throat is that so many on here seem to be in a rush to acquiesce fully with EU demands before we even enter negotiations. Seems a ridiculous position to take bearing in mind the economic shitstorm we are in a collision course with .
Well I think you frame this negotiation as a bargaining situation, the same way that you would negotiate, say, a business deal.
But this is not really the situation we're in, the weakness of the UK's hand is such that there isn't much bargaining possible on the fundamentals, any bargaining will be on cosmetic aspects, but what we can get really depends on what we can concede, not really on how hard we bargain.
To a large extent, if you look at the EU demands, they seem rather reasonable.
The first one was to just freeze the rights of EU citizens as they are, with no retroactive removal of rights. You would think it would be rather uncontroversial, given that this was pretty much the position of the leave campaign, and it seems to be the only practical reciprocal option.
And yet we've seen that the UK gov can't even agree to anything even remotely comparable. They are miles away from it.
In fact, after having reviewed all the details of the UK position, it seems to me that this is, by design, not a plan for a reciprocal deal, but it is in fact a plan for a no deal situation.
The second thing is just to pay what we've already committed to pay, and any outstanding liabilities (and it works the other way as well)
There again, seems reasonable,l to just settle the accounts, but I don't see how a Tory governement could get this to work, even if it's vastly cheaper than a no deal, there are too many absolutists Tory MP who will veto this at the first opportunity.
> Edit: re the legal grounds you posit in your subsequent post; not what I've read. Would be interested if you could point me at a source.
Well just read the report from the House of Lords. It's rather well made and pretty exhaustive. Their conclusion is basically, yes, we have all these financial commitments, in practice, they are not enforceable in any court of law. So the brexiteers are right to say that we don't have to pay any exit bill.
But of course, beyond the legal practicalities, if we walk away from our financial commitments, this is an irreparable breach of trust which will inevitably trigger a heinous reaction.