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Pursued by a bear - on 14 Jun 2018

I was so certain that there'd be a thread running about the World Cup that I almost didn't bother with this but, unless I've missed something, there doesn't seem to be. 

So, the World Cup: who's going to win, who's going to surprise us and just how flaccid will England's performance be?  Post your thoughts, your reactions, your opinions, arguments, notes on how much beer you've drank and all the rest that both makes for a good footie thread and keeps the rest of the site free of it.

I'm torn between Germany and Brazil to win it and England to get out of their group but lose the next match.

T.

Skip - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Annoying distraction for the next month. Not even the pinnacle of world football in terms of entertainment and skill levels, the Champions league knock-out games are much better.

France to win, or maybe Germany or Brazil. England will be better than previous and will comfortably get to the quarters when a proper team will knock them out.

 

stevieb - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I'm really looking forward to it. Not sure why, but I still find the World Cup much more special than any other football comp, regardless of the quality. Ancient memories of when it was the only time you got to see the world stars; Brazil and Italy in 1982, Denmark and Maradona in 86 etc.

I'm hoping for England to perform well and just create some good memories, a great goal or two, and get out of the group obviously. Think we have a 50:50 chance against Poland/Colombia and a 40:60 chance against Belgium. I don't think we'll be super exciting, but at least we have a bit of a plan. I like Southgate, but I do wish that he'd signed up a coaching genius just to help him for the next three months.

In my work prediction comp, I have ended up with a Brazil v Argentina final. It would be good if one of the finalists wasn't one of the big five though.

Skip - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

>  It would be good if one of the finalists wasn't one of the big five though.

Why?

It would only likely lead to a boring one-sided game.

stevieb - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Skip:

> >  It would be good if one of the finalists wasn't one of the big five though.

> Why?

> It would only likely lead to a boring one-sided game.

That's one heck of an assumption.

Belgium have more than enough good players for an exciting game, maybe Croatia do too. Colombia could come good, or Uruguay. Portugal have some great players, though tend to play a fairly dull game. Then there's England...

Edit:

And what was the last great world cup final between two established teams? 1986? 1998 was a great final but that was France's first ever final.

Post edited at 15:19
cb294 - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

2014 was good drama!

CB

subtle on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

footie world cup is in Japan next year is it not?

Pedro50 on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to subtle:

Aren't they every four years?

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

England are 12-1 to win the WC. For those of you unfamiliar with gambling, this means if you bet £100 on England, you will lose £100.

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pedro50:

they are, and it's in that famous footy nation....Qatar

Dax H - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I never understood the interest in football, I fi D it one of the most boring games in the world. My only interest in this is our work sweepstake and with the teams I have drawn I don't stand a snowballs of winning. 

Pursued by a bear - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Dax H:

Small boys.  Jumpers for goalposts.  Isn't it?  Marvellous.

T.

Chris the Tall - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> I'm torn between Germany and Brazil to win it and England to get out of their group but lose the next match.

England will scrape out of their group, win their next match, raising the hopes, and then lose to Germany or Brazil.

With England it's not a question of whether they will win, we know they won't, but there is always some level of novelty to the defeat. OK last time it was just quick and painless, in fact I was too busy cycling round Yorkshire to notice it had started before they were out. But on other occasions we've had the hand of god or the goal that never was, Seaman beaten from the halfway line or a hero sent off after cheating by a swarthy foreigner. Actually we've had at least two of those. Will England play brilliantly yet lose in a penalty shoot-out, or being utterly terrible and lose in a penalty shoot-out ? 

jasonC abroad - on 14 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

The best thing about being a climber and the world cup is that the roads are deserted when England are playing, really useful if they are playing at the weekend. 

I'm interested in the football but don't expect much from England, hoping that someone new wins it this time, would be great if some team from Africa won, though I can't see that happening.

Post edited at 21:43
mick taylor - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Think 5 Live are asking;

1. winner 2. surprise package  3. golden boot'

So, 1. Germany (coz they always do) 2.  Uruguay (good team plus Suarez), 3. Suarez (he will get a netfull against Saudi Arabia) and they Uruguay will progress (otherwise Mo Salah))

Think England could fluke to the semi's.....and Vardy will be the surprise hero when we start lobbing it long and they cant handle his speed coz not used to this style.  Most pundits (Linekar, Waddle specifically) used to go and on about 'England wont win until we start playing 5 in the mid field etc etc etc.  But we havent got the quality of player for this continental style (only Scholes ever good enough) so we should play to our strengths - route 1 after 70 minutes !!

cb294 - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to jasonC abroad:

Even better for road cycling! I cycled almost 40 km on a normally busy road near the Czech border during the quarter finals of the 2014 WC, with only one or two cars passing me in total!

CB

McHeath - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to cb294:

After having seen Saudi Arabia and Egypt play I'm really looking forward to 2026, when there'll be an additional 16 theoretically even worse teams taking part. My highlight for this week is Argentina-Iceland tomorrow!

Pursued by a bear - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Andrew Hannan:

Because I've got an alpine start tomorrow to catch an early flight I'll be in bed for tonight's Spain - Portugal match, which promises to be a decent game of football.  As compensation, I'm currently not watching the game between Morocco and Iran, which isn't.

The world cup may be a feast of football, but that doesn't mean you'll enjoy every course.

T.

Robert Durran - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

> I'm really looking forward to it. Not sure why, but I still find the World Cup much more special than any other football comp, regardless of the quality.

I'm sure why - because the results matter to far more people than any other football games (or probably any other game of any sort). Almost entire nations care who win games, not just supporters of mercenary club sides.

It's the World Cup! Nothing else comes close (except maybe the Olympics).

Roadrunner6 - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

England could do ok.

i wouldn’t be shocked if we made the quarters.

You never know. There’s no super dominant team this year so it’s pretty open. I’d love for Messi to show how good he is but if he doesn’t play well Argentina will struggle.

Germany are Germany so you have to fancy them.

I’m just hoping England play without fear. They’ve a group they should get out of and s good path to the quarters.

uraguay didn’t start too well today but they’ve got good players up top. I’d love to see a good upset and one of the smaller teams to get a long way.

 

 

Eric9Points - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> i wouldn’t be shocked if we made the quarters.

England have a 43.7% chance of reaching the quarters according to this analysis: https://www.theengineer.co.uk/world-cup/

..but don't expect the Scots to be cheering you on: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/06/14/third-scots-actively-want-english-football-team-lo/

 

Lemony - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Well this is a genuinely extraordinary game.

Wainers44 - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Lemony:

> Well this is a genuinely extraordinary game.

Crickey, maybe not all football is dull. 

Tyler - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Wainers44:

To quote SAF, "football, bloody hell!"

Ronaldo is force of nature

Babika - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I'm enjoying it all particularly tonight's match - absolutely fantastic footie! 

I have £1 on Brazil to win at 60-1 (Corals) and an outside punt on Portugal. Sadly I don't see England going beyond the quarters so I decided not to put any money on them.

Hoping to watch the Panama match somewhere in North Wales - will the Royal Victoria be showing it do you think? 

 

Mac fae Stirling - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> Because I've got an alpine start tomorrow to catch an early flight I'll be in bed for tonight's Spain - Portugal match, which promises to be a decent game of football. 

 

It was an absolutely fantastic game of football. Sorry...

 

cb294 - on 15 Jun 2018
In reply to Andrew Hannan:

Spain-Portugal more than made up for the other two games today!

I fell asleep at the Iran - Morocco game, only for the goal to wake me up again, and then had to work through most of the good game, only running to the TV when the commentator started shouting...

Interestingly, Iranians probably enjoyed beating Morocco, 12 years after beating the US, with Morocco being one of the few countries that cut diplomatic ties and imposed economic sanctions at the behest of the Saudis (who I would like to see stuffed two more times) and the US.

CB

The New NickB - on 16 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Just as a small point of order, please can we not call it footie, that is nearly as annoying as rugger. Possibly less annoying than soccer, at least the colonials don't know any better. Football is just fine.

The New NickB - on 16 Jun 2018
In reply to cb294:

They might struggle to beat the US Team, given that they didn't qualify!

John W - on 16 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

Surely you mean Association football?

Lemony - on 16 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> Just as a small point of order, please can we not call it footie

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45NOP1OA-EQ

cb294 - on 16 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

Yes, but that was their last win at the WC. The US also managed to lose against Yugoslavia (which tells you how long ago that was, France 1998!) and Germany, scoring no goal at all.

CB

The New NickB - on 16 Jun 2018
In reply to John W:

> Surely you mean Association football?

No, football is just fine. Just got to maintain some basic standards.

McHeath - on 16 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> They might struggle to beat the US Team, given that they didn't qualify!

There's an Italian ice cream kiosk here in Berlin with a notice up: "World Cup Special! One free scoop for every goal scored by Italy!"

Lemony - on 17 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Wow, what a game! Germany beaten by Mexico.

Wanderer100 - on 17 Jun 2018
In reply to Lemony:

> Wow, what a game! Germany beaten by Mexico.

The Germans have never done very well in Russia have they!!!!

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 17 Jun 2018
In reply to Lemony:

Poor from Germany. Looked like they could have played for 900 minutes and still not have scored. Müller looks like the version that turns up at Euros rather than previous World Cups. I think they’ll struggle to get out of the group now (probably means they’ll go on and win it now I’ve said that..)

Clarence on 17 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> Just as a small point of order, please can we not call it footie, that is nearly as annoying as rugger.

Association Football is a latecomer to the football family, it does not get to be THE football game, just A football game.

Enjoyed the Germany v Mexico game though, I thought they were going to need oxygen and a five minute sit down for the Mexicans, they were really flagging and yet they still held the Germans off. 

 

McHeath - on 17 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

The only German players really making an effort were those who'd missed out in 2014 - Reus, Draxler, Brandt, Werner. Ok, also Müller, Kroos and Neuer - otherwise a sorry bunch compared to four years ago.

Really chuffed now cos my tip for BRA-SWI was 1:1 and I'm now in =1st place! Considering putting a tenner on Iceland to win the Cup, at 350 to 1 ... :-D

squarepeg on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

My prediction is England 0 Tunisia 0

mbh - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

The stadiums look great. Really liked the Belgium-Panama one, and this one looks good. Good atmosphere, crowd up close to the ground, steep sides, plus vaulting, gravity-defying roofs. Like it!

TheDrunkenBakers - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Come on Ingerland!

Babika - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

My Coral bet was 2-0 but it's looking like it's going to be more!

what the hex on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

A good goal followed by the most homo-erotic group hug spectacle I've ever had the misfortune to witness. 11 men lying on top of each other stroking each other's hair etc...

Babika - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to what the hex:

Harry K's hair has an amazing amount of product......he was upside down and that quiff never moved

TheDrunkenBakers - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Babika:

> My Coral bet was 2-0 but it's looking like it's going to be more!

Oops

Dave the Rave on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Unfortunately they’re missing a lot of quality and inspiration.

No Beardsley, Waddle, Gascogne, Lineker, Platt. 1996 was the last time we had a side capable of winning it and Baddiel and Skinners song no longer rhymes.

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Steady on... they’ve played some of the best football of any team so far, and they’re a young side. Given how limited Germany, Brazil, Argentina and France looked, I think they’re not badly placed here...

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

There we are.... Kane is a good player. With him in the side, they’ll be a threat to anyone 

Dave the Rave on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

You’ll win nowt with kids!

Dave the Rave on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> There we are.... Kane is a good player. With him in the side, they’ll be a threat to anyone 

Yes, but he will get injured.

Sean Kelly - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Regarding Kane I can feel a metatarsal coming. Then again serious shoulder dislocation in the penalty box!

summo on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> Steady on... they’ve played some of the best football of any team so far, and they’re a young side. Given how limited Germany, Brazil, Argentina and France looked, I think they’re not badly placed here...

But compared to the Spain v Portugal game, tonight looked like Sunday pub league. 

Cú Chullain - on 18 Jun 2018

Was impressed with Tunisia's obstinacy. Most impressive Volgograd defence since Georgy Zhukov was lacing up his boots.

 

John W - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Well there was f*ck all else to be impressed with!

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to summo:

Fair enough- but they’ve been easily the best 2 sides. 

I’d be much more concerned if I was a Germany fan. 

Belgium game will be the real test- if England  can live with them, then they could do alright...

Dave the Rave on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Regarding Kane I can feel a metatarsal coming. Then again serious shoulder dislocation in the penalty box!

Or a damaged quiff from heading the  ball! There’s no guile in that team, or any team we’ve had for 20 odd years. Bunch of overvalued twunts. 

Maybe we will win it by stealth?

summo on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Perhaps. The likes of Spain and Portugal are mature sides, England's only hope is it grows into the game through the initial rounds otherwise they'll getting a hiding later on. 

Clint86 - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I thought the VAR was lacking with the penalties. Strange.

Clint86 - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

.........and Pickford looks a little small, but otherwise they played well. Probably won't win it, but then only one team out of 32 can do that.

summo on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> Or a damaged quiff from heading the  ball! There’s no guile in that team, or any team we’ve had for 20 odd years. Bunch of overvalued twunts. > Maybe we will win it by stealth?

Passion, drive, guts etc.... rarer qualities these days, but in abundance in many GB Olympic athletes. Wonder what it is that makes footie so different. 

Dave the Rave on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to summo:

> Passion, drive, guts etc.... rarer qualities these days, but in abundance in many GB Olympic athletes. Wonder what it is that makes footie so different. 

Sense of entitlement? Look at Iceland’s display. They have no chance of winning it but set out a stall, stuck to the plan and got a great result. Population the size of where I’m from and hold one of the favourites! That’s team spirit. 

John W - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to summo:

Oh, I can think of about 200,000 reasons - per week.

stevieb - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to summo:

> Passion, drive, guts etc.... rarer qualities these days, but in abundance in many GB Olympic athletes. Wonder what it is that makes footie so different. 

Maybe because football is the number one sport in over 100 countries, and rowing and track cycling are minor sports in about 15 countries. 

And anyway, English footballers don’t lack for passion, drive and guts. If they could win just by trying harder they would; it’s the skill, guile and composure they’re lacking. 

stevieb - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> Belgium game will be the real test- if England  can live with them, then they could do alright...

but hopefully we’ll have qualified by then. Could even be a game we want to lose 

 

The New NickB - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

I thought they were quite skilful and composed tonight. They maybe lacked a bit of guile.  They need to to sharpen up the finishing a bit and maybe a little more luck with some of the refereeing decisions.

aln - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> maybe a little more luck with some of the refereeing decisions.

Lol.

 

stevieb - on 18 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> I thought they were quite skilful and composed tonight. They maybe lacked a bit of guile.  They need to to sharpen up the finishing a bit and maybe a little more luck with some of the refereeing decisions.

Yes I thought there was some great running tonight, not sure about composes,  but also a lack of precision passing or shooting.

The penalty decisions were bizarre. After the Brazil game and this one, the refs might start getting tougher on tussles in the box. 

Roadrunner6 - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

1996 wasn't a world cup..

We were good in patches but pretty poor in other games. Scotland and Spain especially and that Germany team wasn't great.

Similar in 1990, we were lucky against Cameroon especially.

This was pretty good. Walker looks a liability but has pace. But he does switch off and takes gambles, lets balls run that a center half shouldn't. He still plays like he's a wing back. I thought the penalty was harsh but see why it was given but then so should the one on Kane. But holding is inconsistently dealt with, hence why defenders still do it. With VAR this should be cut out.

Loftus Cheek looked dangerous, Sterling had a poor game. Lingard missed chances but gets into good areas. Rashford was more direct than any of them. 

I don't know how Stones didn't connect with that chance. 1 game in, and a big win in terms of qualification. We should have won comfortably but they created lots of chances and played decent football.

 

Roadrunner6 - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

>

> The penalty decisions were bizarre. After the Brazil game and this one, the refs might start getting tougher on tussles in the box. 

We saw one given in the Nigeria Croatia game. It's just very random when given which with VAR should not happen.

 

felt - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Thing is with one of the Kane corner tussles, just before that disgraceful rugby tackle, Stones, also waiting for the corner to swing in, pushed a Tunisian in the back and he fell to the ground. So if the VAR were to give it to Kane, they'd have had to have given the Stones foul moments prior to it. So they left it all well alone. Wise.

Not sure about the other one.

subtle on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Sterling was poor, Loftus Cheek looked good for the limited time he was on against a tired team.

Thought Trippier was the best player on the park - apart from his two goals (which is why he is in the team) thought Kane was invisible, especially in the second half.

One question - can Vardy and Kane play in the same team? Know that Vardy is good in counter attack, which wasn't required against Tunisia, just wondering if teh two can play together?

Roadrunner6 - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to subtle:

I wouldn’t play Vardy with Kane and Lingard, Rashford and Sterling are more fluid and dynamic. They can play outside or as a number 10.

i agree Kane doesn’t offer much but goals. He can be an outlet and play the target man but he score. That wasn’t an easy second goal. 

Re the use of arms. It’s still random. England deserved to win. They ran, they created chances. It’s the first team in a one time which has an identity, a style of play not just big names, square pegs in round holes.

im a big fan of 3-5-2 at international level, it’s a gamble as we don’t play as a back 3 much domestically but it lets us dominate the midfield.

LastBoyScout on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

My wife likes football, so ended up watching some of the England match last night.

Can anyone explain to me what's going on with the players pulling their socks up over their knees?

Oceanrower - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Obvious innit? Nobody wants cold knees...

subtle on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> Can anyone explain to me what's going on with the players pulling their socks up over their knees?

Keep their knees warm?

LastBoyScout on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Oceanrower:

> Obvious innit? Nobody wants cold knees...

But weren't the pundits were commenting on how warm it was out on the pitch...?

Oceanrower - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Obviously not at knee level. Heat rises so maybe it was only warm at waist and above.

 

Post edited at 14:40
Roadrunner6 - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Oceanrower: 2-1 to Japan against Columbia who have 10 men.

England, if they qualify, play either 1st or 2nd in this group which looked likely to be Columbia or Poland.. much less likely now.

 

GrahamD - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to LastBoyScout:

 

> Can anyone explain to me what's going on with the players pulling their socks up over their knees?

Hides embarrassing tattoos.

syv_k - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> Can anyone explain to me what's going on with the players pulling their socks up over their knees?

Biting insects, I think.

Sean Kelly - on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Oceanrower:

Less skin exposed for the midges!

 

Clarence on 19 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

After alice bands and leggings maybe the long socks are going to see the introduction of fusspenders?

BnB - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

My favourite World Cup story to date:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44492611

I haven't visited Japan although it's an early objective for my forthcoming retirement. I'm looking forward to the opportunity all the more now.

Chris the Tall - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Here's an interesting conundrum for you all to consider

England and Belgium win their next games and so both qualify before the final game, which merely becomes a question of who tops the group. Brazil and Germany improve on initial matches and qualify, but the latter is second to Mexico and so play Brazil in the last 16.  This is known before the Eng-Bel match, whilst the winners of Group H (Japan, Poland, Senegal, Columbia) isn't known but isn't exactly terrifying.

Now then the winners of Eng-Bel, if they win their R2 match, will face Germany or Brazil. The losers, again if they win in R2, would face someone like Mexico or Switzerland.

Will either side try to win ? 

 

The New NickB - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

England need to win the group, finishing runner-up means playing the round of 16 on 3rd July, the night of my clubs 10k. It would be frowned upon if the club’s new Chairman (me) didn’t turn up.

subtle on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Here's an interesting conundrum for you all to consider

> England and Belgium win their next games and so both qualify before the final game, which merely becomes a question of who tops the group. Brazil and Germany improve on initial matches and qualify, but the latter is second to Mexico and so play Brazil in the last 16.  This is known before the Eng-Bel match, whilst the winners of Group H (Japan, Poland, Senegal, Columbia) isn't known but isn't exactly terrifying.

> Now then the winners of Eng-Bel, if they win their R2 match, will face Germany or Brazil. The losers, again if they win in R2, would face someone like Mexico or Switzerland.

> Will either side try to win ? 

Its football - who cares?

Chris the Tall - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to subtle:

> Its football - who cares?

Football fans. 

 

The New NickB - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to BnB:

> I haven't visited Japan although it's an early objective for my forthcoming retirement. I'm looking forward to the opportunity all the more now.

I spent a month in Japan, more than a decade ago. My experience was that city centres were pristine, places like Narita where the main airport for Tokyo is, much less so, but not bad by British standards. However, the amount of rubbish on sone of the mountains was pretty bad. We explored the mountains above Nikko.

subtle on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Football fans. 

I would suggest only the English and Belgium football fans - so not even a large % of football fans the world over

Robert Durran - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Will either side try to win ?

I imagine neither side would really want to win, but is it against the rules to deliberately try to lose by scoring loads of own goals? Or would they have to pretend to not be trying to lose?

 

Clarence on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I don't care who tries to win as long as we don't have the constant droning in the background. The Iran-Spain match sounds like a secondary school bagpipe club tuning up in a traffic jam caused by a truck full of bees colliding with a shipment of kazoos.

Dave the Rave on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Clarence:

Remember the vuvuzela?

elsewhere on 20 Jun 2018

Senegal goal against Poland - comedy gold.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44539007

 

Clarence on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> Remember the vuvuzela?

Unfortunately I do, I made a couple of games at the 2010 World Cup.

Dave the Rave on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Clarence:

Worst World Cup ever that, ruined by jollity.

Graeme Alderson on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to BnB:

I am not surprised. I was at the recent Climbing World Cup in Hajiochi (Tokyo) as an officia, and it was very noticeable that the public areas were virtually spotless, unlike the reserved competitors area which were, well how can I say, less than spotless.

In Japan you notice litter (very much) but here and in most paces you only notice a total lack of litter.

Chris Harris - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I imagine neither side would really want to win, but is it against the rules to deliberately try to lose by scoring loads of own goals? Or would they have to pretend to not be trying to lose?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados_4%E2%80%932_Grenada_(1994_Caribbean_Cup_qualification)

 

 

Chris Harris - on 20 Jun 2018
In reply to Clarence:

> I don't care who tries to win as long as we don't have the constant droning in the background. The Iran-Spain match sounds like a secondary school bagpipe club tuning up in a traffic jam caused by a truck full of bees colliding with a shipment of kazoos.

I caught about 15 seconds of that match as I was flipping through the channels. During that brief time, Diego Costa managed to be a cock. Who would have thought it. 

Michael Hood - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris Harris:

That's brilliant, we need more rules like that to liven things up.

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Argentina 0 - Croatia 3

the end of an era? Argentina were terrible. Lethargic, sloppy, lacking imagination, unable to string two passes together, crosses going clear over the head of everyone. Messi was peripheral, and infected by the same sloppiness as the rest of them. 

It will take a miracle for them to get out of the group now, so we are probably looking at the final international games in the career of one of the greatest players ever. A sad end, the brilliance of his Barcelona performances never replicated on the biggest stages of all.

 

stevieb - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> Argentina 0 - Croatia 3

> the end of an era? Argentina were terrible.

> It will take a miracle for them to get out of the group now, 

I’m not sure, right now there’s a good chance that a 1-0 win in there last game will get them second place. 

 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

That would need both them scoring, and preventing Nigeria from scoring. On tonight’s performance, neither looks particularly likely. 

I wonder if something will come out about problems behind the scenes; the Argentina players didn’t really look like they wanted to be there.

stevieb - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Yeah, they looked poor, especially their attitude, but they lost to a very strong team. 

BnB - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

> I’m not sure, right now there’s a good chance that a 1-0 win in there last game will get them second place. 

I agree. Croatia is the class act in that group. Iceland are tough opponents but may not get a result tomorrow.

As for Messi. He is exceptionally talented and the statistics do not lie. But they also bear witness to the exceptional Barcelona team, possibly the best club side ever, raising him on their shoulders. But I question his character.

Maradona lifted poor sides (Napoli as well as Argentina) to Scudetto and World Cup glory. And he did so as if singlehandedly with display after display of indomitable character. We see the same determination in Ronaldo. He may have played a small part in the final game, but his play and goals took Portugal to the decider two years ago. Messi’s skills rival both, but, when it comes to the crunch, Messi falls short of either.

Rampikino - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to BnB:

Argentina certainly can still qualify though it would probably be into a last 16 tie with France. Croatia likely to get Denmark.

aln - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

How are England doing?

Rampikino - on 21 Jun 2018
In reply to aln:

England are still in!

4 teams are already eliminated... Morocco had the dubious honour of being the first.

Roadrunner6 - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

That's my view.. France Argentina and Brazil Germany..

It means by the quarters we have lost 3 of them, plus Italy and Holland. 

I think Argentina will qualify but france will win.

BnB - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

France has tremendous strength in depth. What a bench they had last night! Commentators are complaining about their lack of fluency but two wins, two clean sheets will please Deschamps.

The performances so far rather reflect the manager as a player. Efficiency before flair.

fred99 - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to BnB:

> Maradona lifted poor sides (Napoli as well as Argentina) to Scudetto and World Cup glory. And he did so as if singlehandedly

I think the operative word there is SINGLEHANDEDLY.

One thing I will never do is express any admiration for a cheating, lying, blasphemous drug dealer.

subtle on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to fred99:

> I think the operative word there is SINGLEHANDEDLY.

> One thing I will never do is express any admiration for a cheating, lying, blasphemous drug dealer.

Oh dear - Maradona was the most gifted player of his generation, won lots through his talent, lifted others through his drive and succeeded at both domestic and international stages

AND he happen to score ONE goal with his hand against Engerland - get over it FFS.

His second goal in that game was fantastic, not many have scored a better goal.

Now, as for dodgy handball incidents Thierry Henry v Ireland?

 

Rampikino - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to subtle:

Yeah, apart from a drugs ban in 1991 for cocaine, being sent home from the 1994 world cup for doping, shooting journalists with an air rifle (got a suspended sentence)...

Legend.

The New NickB - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

He is a very bad man, obviously. However, it’s his footballing ability we need to consider. I did find it funny that amongst his crimes Fred lists blasphemy.

Messi and Ronaldo are both convicted criminals of course, both receiving big fines and suspended sentences for tax evasion.

subtle on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> He is a very bad man, obviously. However, it’s his footballing ability we need to consider. I did find it funny that amongst his crimes Fred lists blasphemy.

> Messi and Ronaldo are both convicted criminals of course, both receiving big fines and suspended sentences for tax evasion.

Quite.

Never mind, Neymar is still in the World Cup - just!

 

kipper12 - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Having seen all the supposed fancied teams, none have really impressed. Could this be the World Cup of mediocrity?  

The New NickB - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to summo:

> But compared to the Spain v Portugal game, tonight looked like Sunday pub league. 

I've only just spotted this. For probably half an hour England played the best football in the tournament to that time. As entertaining as Spain v Portugal was, the overall standard of play was nothing special, great going forward at times, but pretty woeful in defence.

mbh - on 22 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Great, Bergkamp-esque finish from Musa.

Wanderer100 - on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to subtle:

> Quite.

> Never mind, Neymar is still in the World Cup - just!

Neymar was brilliant yesterday. 

Serbia were robbed......how that wasn't a penalty when their forward was wrestled to the floor by two defenders was even more baffling than the penalty that never was against Harry Kane.

Nigeria finally showed what African Football is capable of in this World Cup.  As good as Iceland were in the first half Nigeria were superb and I hope they qualify from the group.

A great day for the World Cup.

Roadrunner6 - on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to Wanderer100: Belgium were great then. Could have scored 10.

 

 

 

Wanderer100 - on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> Belgium were great then. Could have scored 10.

Lots of quality in that team. 

At the back, in the middle and up front.

Roadrunner6 - on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Big 45 minutes for Germany!

Roadrunner6 - on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to Wanderer100: yeah I think they have been the best team I’ve seen so far. Germany are dominating possession but Sweden are creating the better chances so far.

 

squarepeg on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Well Germany left it late, but quality when it came.

I can eat 50 eggs on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to squarepeg:

The Germans are coming. They'll be in the final I reckon. Sad but true.  

summo on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

The Swedish team should be embarrassed, poor passing, failed to engage, looked slow and unfit, even with a one player advantage failed to take control. Germany got the result they deserved, despite some suspect refereeing. 

Roadrunner6 - on 23 Jun 2018
In reply to summo:

Yeah, stupid decisions late on. That shot was silly, no chance of scoring and gave away possession then a stupid tackle to give the foul. Germany aren’t great but got the win. Sweden didn’t seem to know what to do at 1-1 with a man extra, get the win or play for a draw. 

Roadrunner6 - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Good start.

good run by lingard, he does so much running between the lines. Not the most talented player but clever runner and works very hard. This England team is much more fluid than past ones.

It’s only Panama but in two games we’ve created lots of chances.

 

TheDrunkenBakers - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Erm. I think my eyes arent working. 5-0 at half time against a bunch of wrestlers.

Roadrunner6 - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

i don’t think the ref wanted to give that penalty at 4-0 but he had no choice, there were 2 at it. 

 

Pursued by a bear - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to everyone:

Since I've been on my holidays*, today's England game was the first one I've sat down and watched properly.  Rather good, I thought.

T.

* County Antrim, since you ask.  Never been before, and I have rather fallen for the place.  I'll definitely be going back.

 

mbh - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to all:

Meanwhile, having at one point been four wickets down for barely more runs than the football side had scored goals, the other England side now need 20 runs from 7 overs for a whitewash. Just two wickets remaining, however. 

 

earlsdonwhu - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Amazing weekend for England football, rugby and cricket. Three victories achieved in different styles. Football always ahead, rugby was pretty neck and neck for most of the match while the cricketers snatch the win from a point of seeming hopelessness.

Sean Kelly - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

> Amazing weekend for England football, rugby and cricket. Three victories achieved in different styles. Football always ahead, rugby was pretty neck and neck for most of the match while the cricketers snatch the win from a point of seeming hopelessness.


You forgot Lewis Hamilton and F1! Can it get any better?

Doghouse - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> You forgot Lewis Hamilton and F1! Can it get any better?

 

Yes, Germany could have lost  

earlsdonwhu - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to Sean Kelly:

But he drives a German car.

Oceanrower - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Mostly made in, err, Woking...

earlsdonwhu - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to Oceanrower:

Brixworth , Northamptonshire I think......but only until Brexit kicks in and I guess Mercedes will be off like others in the high tech manufacturing sector. ( Just to conflate this thread with most others which revolve around EU issues.)

Post edited at 21:32
andymac - on 24 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Even the Jocks could have beaten Panama.

 

I think...?

history lesson time;

Many moons ago ,Scotland tried to colonise Panama.

but we never did very well in South America.

fred99 - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> He is a very bad man, obviously. However, it’s his footballing ability we need to consider. I did find it funny that amongst his crimes Fred lists blasphemy.

He did refer to his OWN HAND as the "Hand of God", so presumably inferred that he was himself God.

Not that I personally think blasphemy has a place in the 21st century (or even 20th as it was then). However he does come from a supposedly God-fearing Catholic country.

The New NickB - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I quite enjoyed yesterday’s game, obviously having stuffed possibly the weakest team in the competition (I’m not sure just how bad Saudi Arabia are), I can confidently say we are going to win the World Cup!

Seriously though, great to see a young team playing with confidence and plenty of ability. Lingard’s goal was wonderful. Stones first goal was the first England goal by a Manchester City player in about 35 years apparently, which says a lot about Stirling’s contribution to England.

TheDrunkenBakers - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> I quite enjoyed yesterday’s game, obviously having stuffed possibly the weakest team in the competition (I’m not sure just how bad Saudi Arabia are), I can confidently say we are going to win the World Cup!

> Seriously though, great to see a young team playing with confidence and plenty of ability. Lingard’s goal was wonderful. Stones first goal was the first England goal by a Manchester City player in about 35 years apparently, which says a lot about Stirling’s contribution to England.

I enjoyed it too and have the same good feeling about our youth and lets not forget that until the senior age is reached, England have been the best team in the world recently.  I wonder how well that will ultimately translate to the senior squads.  

Sterling is confounding.  He has great skill and is super fast and slippery but when wearing the three lions has not performed.  I wonder if he can continue to bother the players with his running and make space for Kane to get close to the goal then this combo might work.  

Perhaps its time to try Vardy.  Another super fast runner and skilful operator, who is also deadly in front of the net.  If Kane gets injured we will struggle without another good striker and so we need to see if Vardy or someone else can act as a credible deputy so that the other teams dont think we are a one trick pony.  I know Lingard and Stones scored yesterday but I dont think  they would have had the space that they did with a better opposition.

GrahamD - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to fred99:

> He did refer to his OWN HAND as the "Hand of God", so presumably inferred that he was himself God.

Or that his God acted through his hand, which is more likely.

earlsdonwhu - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Two things have struck me so far. The first is probably not surprising. The foreign pundits like Fabregas and Zabaleta can speak in a more grammatically correct manner than most of the native English speaking ones. Secondly, I am amazed at the numbers of fans from supposedly poor countries who are able to afford a trip to Russia. I know that Colombia has a flourishing export sector but still.........

Sean Kelly - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

When Ronaldo takes a Free Kick, he always rolls up his shorts past the thigh. How does this help?

Oh! Spain have gone one down. Lots of surprises at the WC!

Post edited at 19:20
earlsdonwhu - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

How do you apply for the job of scouring the stands looking for the attractive young ladies for the crowd shots? 

Robert Durran - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

> How do you apply for the job of scouring the stands looking for the attractive young ladies for the crowd shots? 

And then manage to get the Sweden games....... 

mbh - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Great save by the Iranian keeper!

 

Wanderer100 - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to mbh:

What a mental night of football this is!! 

earlsdonwhu - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

VAR proving a shambles tonight. 

John W - on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Makes for brilliant comedy viewing though, once you get past the screaming “get up, you f*cking soft cheating wanker” stage.

Andy Hardy on 25 Jun 2018
In reply to John W:

> Makes for brilliant comedy viewing though, once you get past the screaming “get up, you f*cking soft cheating wanker” stage.

Couldn't get past that stage tonight. I was hoping just before Ronaldo got booked the ref was going to book the Iranian player for "simulation" (aka total onanism) but no.

Babika - on 26 Jun 2018
In reply to Wanderer100:

All day has been pretty good. The goals just keep coming!

I think the group stages usually produce the best football. Everyone seems to close down a bit and get cautious once knockout arrives. 

Wanderer100 - on 26 Jun 2018
In reply to Babika:

Very true. I hope the defenders sort themselves out though. Defending has been awful up to now and as a result there have been far too many penalties awarded. 

The New NickB - on 26 Jun 2018
In reply to Wanderer100:

First 0-0 draw of the tournament today, glad I didn't watch it, sounds like what I was doing (writing funding applications) was far more exciting and that really is saying something!

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

Glad I did watch the Argentina Nigeria game....fantastic match. Felt a bit sorry for Nigeria, they play some great football.

How embarrassing is the cheating Argentinian Gazza? Unveils a flag of himself, swears at opposing fans, falls asleep then gets led away by doctors...probably a bit too late but the man needs help!

Some interesting games today..Brazil Serbia and Germany S. Korea , would be amazing if Brazil and Germany failed to qualify

 

Loving this WC

Rampikino - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

It is turning into a fascinating World Cup (France/Denmark aside).  There is a quarter of the draw that now contains France, Uruguay, Portugal and Argentina!

As for Maradonna - an utter embarrassment.  I think the BBC will be a little more circumspect about using his images during the games now, after having to cut away last night during the idiot's one-fingered salutes.

The New NickB - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Saw the last 20 minutes. Including two watches, one finger!

The New NickB - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

Host broadcaster, I don’t think either BBC or ITV have much choice about the pictures they get. I suppose they could cut to the studio, but would probably require showing the game with a few seconds delay.

TheDrunkenBakers - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I always look forward to the World Cup but I'm starting to think that football has become a non-contact sport.

Get near the competition and they seem to fall over without any difficulty.  I wonder if any of these big strong men would fall on the floor like a big girls blouse if they were hit in the street.  <footballer gets slight tap on shoulder, rolls on the flow holding his face/back of head as though has has been hit by Joshua>

My 10 year old daughter can take more punishment than these bunch of embarrassments.  Managers need to stamp it out and threaten to withdraw their place in the next game of they continue to cheat this way or better still, FIFA disqualifies the game against the cheat retrospectively.

Why is diving or feigning injury to get an unfair advantage any better than taking steroids, blood doping or roughing up a cricket ball with sandpaper?  It drives me nuts to see these so called professionals behave in this way with the tacit encouragement from the manager who, in almost every case, will defend the player?

Pedro50 on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

What about all the attackers being literally wrestled to the ground at set pieces? At least the referees appear to have been instructed to take a more severe view.

 

TheDrunkenBakers - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Pedro50:

> What about all the attackers being literally wrestled to the ground at set pieces? At least the referees appear to have been instructed to take a more severe view.

I agree that should be stamped out too and given the introduction of VAR and a 3rd ref I was hoping that this could be dealt with during the game.  I agree that there has been lot of this going on (with the striker sometimes going down a little too easily) but Im talking about the stuff which isnt that easily identified where diving or acting are being used as tools to cheat the ref and ultimately the watching public out of a fair result.  

I would rather England lose fairly than win unfairly.

Rampikino - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

This World Cup has been helped but also hindered by VAR.  Now we have players screaming at the ref to review every little thing.  Injuries are exaggerated even more as an attempt to get VAR to look at things and hopefully get a decision.

While there have been some things that VAR has helped with, there are many other behaviours that it seems to be encouraging.

I do like the fact that Gareth Southgate seems to be drumming into the England players that they should do their damnedest to avoid getting hold of anyone in the penalty area and risking a penalty.  The Tunisia one went against them - good reason to make sure they keep their discipline.

Pedro50 on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Copy cricket and tennis. Each team can request 2 vars per half. Or similar.

Rampikino - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

As it stands, only Spain and Uruguay have better disciplinary records than England (of teams not eliminated), and Mexico are the same.  So England are currently one of the cleanest teams at the World Cup.

GrahamD - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

VAR is in its infancy in football.  I't'll take a while for it to sort itself out but it can only be good in the long run.

The New NickB - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

I’ve only seen highlights of Uruguay’s matches, but they have never struck me as team of good disciple and Sunday school morality. I don’t just mean gnasher either!

Rampikino - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

That one is a surprise, I have to admit.  But they have played 3 matches and only 1 yellow!

 

Edit - Mexico had a yellow card inside 10 seconds in their Sweden game, so England is currently 3rd best team for discipline in the World Cup!

Post edited at 15:14
Chris the Tall - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

> so England is currently 3rd best team for discipline in the World Cup!

And with one yellow card less than Belgium, would go through as group winners if the match on Thursday ends in a draw. So which fringe player will be sent on in the last 5 minutes to pick up a needless booking ?

 

Graeme Alderson on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

As we play someone from Group H we won't know who we are playing until the next day so we should just play to win the group and not mess around

Ian W - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Agree entirely; go into the Belgium game not caring whether you win or lose, and I can virtually guarantee a loss, and also a loss of the momentum England seem to be building. 

When we are getting the results, why stop? Go into the match with a winning mentality, and then let whoever we meet in the last 16 worry about how to stop England rather than how to beat them. Make a nice change......

Wanderlust - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

> My 10 year old daughter can take more punishment than these bunch of embarrassments.  Managers need to stamp it out

I would argue the officials need to stamp it out. It still goes largely unpunished.

If you very rarely get booked for diving but you often win a free kick, you're going to dive, aren't you?

Refs need to get better at giving free kicks where the fouled player *doesn't* fall over, and also give more yellows/reds for simulation.

 

Chris the Tall - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Group H games are in the afternoon before the England game (yes, I know, it's wrong, but don't blame me), so they will know who they would play in the next round.

But yes it is inevitable that if they avoid Brazil in the quarters, they will render it academic by going out to Japan in the second round.

Graeme Alderson on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I should have read the schedule more carefully. I guess TV dictated that England would play in the evening, if not half the country would shut down.

Stop press : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRW2lo-xcik

stevieb - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Just to say, the last time England did better than Germany in a World Cup was 52 years ago. 

Chris the Tall - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

2-0 down, need 3 goals in about 90 seconds

Can we write them off now ?

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

well, thats been coming for a while- Kroos' goal at the death in the Sweden game let them off the hook, but Germany have been poor in all three matches. Lots of possession, not many chances, and the few good ones they create, they waste. 

 

looked like the end of the road for a lot of that team- they really missed Lahm and Schweinsteiger, and also Mueller, even though he was technically on the pitch...

stevieb - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> looked like the end of the road for a lot of that team- they really missed Lahm and Schweinsteiger, and also Mueller, even though he was technically on the pitch...

I know he always looked a bit rubbish, but maybe the guy they missed was Miroslav Klose; 16 goals in 4 world cups when they never finished lower than 3rd.

 

Cú Chullain - on 27 Jun 2018

And Germany leave Russia in disarray...not for the first time.

 

Pursued by a bear - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Today's word is Schadenfreude.

Can't think why...

T.

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

> I know he always looked a bit rubbish, but maybe the guy they missed was Miroslav Klose; 16 goals in 4 world cups when they never finished lower than 3rd.

Yes. None of the current team seem to know where the net is...

Graeme Alderson on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I am pretty sure they knew where it was because they went to great effort to avoid it!

TheDrunkenBakers - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

F*cking Neymar. What a prancing petulant, diving bstard.

Post edited at 19:35
Babika - on 27 Jun 2018
In reply to stevieb:

I;m just so pleased that whatever happens we;re not going out to Germany on penalties. 

Hat Dude on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to Cú Chullain:

> And Germany leave Russia in disarray...not for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uivPpzCGo

GrahamD - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to Cú Chullain:

I'm not sure why all the gloating over Germany's exit.  Borne out of jealousy for a country with a much better structured football set up which almost always out performs ingurland, maybe ?  I doubt whether our humiliation to Iceland two years ago hardly registered in Germany.

The New NickB - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

I take it you weren’t enjoying Australia getting a pasting in the cricket!

GrahamD - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

> I take it you weren’t enjoying Australia getting a pasting in the cricket!

Australia being pasted by us ? yes I certainly was.  But we had nothing to do with Germany's exit at this world cup.  If we had I might understand the reaction a bit more. 

Babika - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to I can eat 50 eggs:

> The Germans are coming. They'll be in the final I reckon. Sad but true.  

So much can happen in 5 days..

Babika - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

> I'm not sure why all the gloating over Germany's exit.  Borne out of jealousy for a country with a much better structured football set up which almost always out performs ingurland, maybe ?  I doubt whether our humiliation to Iceland two years ago hardly registered in Germany.

 

Its partly our national obsession with the underdog and being jolly good sports. 

I heard on the radio that in German schools sport is taught that winning is all that matters at all costs whereas we know that here we have a thing about the taking part, best efforts and everyone's a winner etc. which is a bit rubbish but deeply ingrained in the culture.  

I'm generalising of course, but you get my drift. 

The New NickB - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

The fact that it wasn’t us doesn’t matter, we have outperformed the old enemy (purely football, no war references) for the first time in 52 years.

GrahamD - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

You mean we beat Panama ?

Ex Poster 666 - on 28 Jun 2018
summo on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

I'm just happy to see them out after the way their coaches teased the Swedish bench at the end of last week's game. With a bit of luck the coaches will be sacked too. 

The New NickB - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to Ex Poster 666:

O’Neill has got a point, but considering how poor some of the teams have been in this World Cup, it would be pretty terrible to be the manager of a team that didn’t qualify.

The New NickB - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to summo:

> I'm just happy to see them out after the way their coaches teased the Swedish bench at the end of last week's game. With a bit of luck the coaches will be sacked too. 

That was quite ugly.

stevieb - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

> You mean we beat Panama ?

So far, we have achieved very little. But it is already the most enjoyable major football tournament for at least 12 years. (edit: for England fans. Welsh and neutral fans have had some good tournaments)

If we lose our last 16 game against Japan, we probably won't remember it fondly, and Southgate will be replaced by Neil Warnock, but for once the journey has been fun.

Post edited at 12:46
felt - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

Don't mention the VAR.

subtle on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Well, I was looking forward to the Belgium v England game but its now become a bit on an anticlimax, talk is of both teams trying to lose - which is rather disappointing.

Never mind, it all gets real from now on - lets hope the referee's also get real and waken up to the criticism they are getting - lets play football!

GrahamD - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to subtle:

>....talk is of both teams trying to lose - which is rather disappointing.

To be fair, both teams have shown themselves to be pretty good at losing in recent years so could be tight game 

 

mbh - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

Belgium ahead already after the anthems. Billy Connolly springs to mind.

Roadrunner6 - on 28 Jun 2018
In reply to subtle:

Ir was a nothing game. Why risk bookings or injuries.

no side wants to lose but there was no real advantage to winning. It was a chance for squad players to make an case and they didn’t. I don’t buy the momentum argument as it was a different team out there.

it all starts again now. Columbia are a decent team but play well and we will beat them especially without James if he’s out.

 

summo on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

The only hazard with Columbia is being injured. They play full contact hope the ref is distracted football, plus the risk of players being drawn into a scuffle and being banned from later games. 

stevieb - on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

The path to the semi final now opens up. 

So says everyone in Colombia, Sweden, Switzerland and maybe England.

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Exactly! This was always about prolonging England's stay in Russia, and Southgate has done just that with this result.

Now England will get knocked out next Tuesday instead of Monday. Mission accomplished.

Babika - on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

You are a pessimist aren't you?

Selfishly I'm partly pleased it's Tuesday as I'm due to be in a remote Romanian mountain hut on Monday night with no chance of watching anything. 

summo on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Seems fair. He keeps his job. In a culture where the manager takes the blame and £300m of players waltz back to their day job as though they had no part in the teams defeat. 

Graeme Alderson on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Babika:

Whereas I will be at Old Trafford trying to watch the England game and the T20 game between England and India!

Siward on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Trying to win is name of the game tactics be damned. 

On my watching England were very much trying to win, they just couldn't. 

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Babika:

lol, it was firmly tongue in cheek, lifted from somewhere else and made me laugh.

I'm pretty excited about our prospects, why not? Stranger things have happened...Leicester winning the Prem? ;-)

Roadrunner6 - on 29 Jun 2018
In reply to Siward:

They did but both managers selected much weakened teams.. I don’t think either manager was that bothered.

Chris the Tall - on 30 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Strange emotions on this game.

suarez vs Ronaldo

who would you rather see crying? Who don’t you want to see celebrating ?

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 30 Jun 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Two knockout games

10 goals

a new star arrives, two fading ones depart

One of the great days of World Cup football...?

 

Chris the Tall - on 30 Jun 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Mbappe wasn’t even born when France won the World Cup.....

mind you, I wasn’t born when England won it !

Kimono - on 01 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Mbappe wasn’t even born when France won the World Cup.....

> mind you, I wasn’t born when England won it !

I was 3 months old!....its been a lifetime's wait

BnB - on 01 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

A terrific day. I’ve been watching Cavani closely at the tournament as I believe he’s unjustly underrated. He works in selfless support of Suarez, and yesterday his performance was every bit as good as Mbappe’s electric impact. With the ball coming across him awkwardly, his body control and ball strike for the second goal was my moment of the tournament so far. 

Dave the Rave on 01 Jul 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> Exactly! This was always about prolonging England's stay in Russia, and Southgate has done just that with this result.

> Now England will get knocked out next Tuesday instead of Monday. Mission accomplished.

It’s time to start ramping up how good England are and how their chances of winning it have improved with all these big sides knocked out.

Then and only then will we feel suitably disgruntled at our sides shiteness.

Ive never known the quarter finals minus Germany, Italy, Argentina, Holland, Spain or Portugal. Surely this year? Then we can say we didn’t play the big boys;) 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 01 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Unusual for all those sides to be poor at the same time- and they were poor, none of the results are a shock when current form taken into account. 

Brazil, France, Uruguay and Belgium all still in though. But all in the other half of the draw. Losing to Belgium looking like a very good move now...

Babika - on 01 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I love the fact there's a Denmark player with Braithwaite on his back. 

Not even Braithwaiteson

earlsdonwhu - on 01 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Can't beat a good penalty shootout.......unless you are English!

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Russia, Columbia, Croatia, Sweden, Switzerland, England.

One of those teams will be in the WC final!

 

 

Roadrunner6 - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

It’s incredible how the draw has put two very different sides of the bracket.

our side is so open.

im going for a Mexico shock today.

 

earlsdonwhu - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

I was going to say that the psychic octopus is doing better on predictions but I just discovered that he has been eaten!

Post edited at 17:16
Sean Kelly - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

No Mexico shock, but Japan now 2 up against Belgium, a well fancied team. Lots of favourites going out!

elsewhere on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Now that header livens things up!

Edit follows

Now that header livens things up!

Edit follows

That was cruel.

Post edited at 20:55
Chris the Tall - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Wow. Great game. Glad it didn’t go to penalties but I would have liked another 30 mins.

elsewhere on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I wanted Japan to win but Belgium deserved that. Incredible turn around.

John W - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Neymar - what a complete and utter tw*t!

TheDrunkenBakers - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to John W:

> Neymar - what a complete and utter tw*t!

Utterly. A horrendous example for the kids. Rio F went down in my estimations earlier too when he condoned diving in the box.

Dave the Rave on 02 Jul 2018
Postmanpat on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

Fat miserable Belgian bastards

andymac - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to John W:

I just watched his writhing about like a salmon on the riverbank routine.

embarassing.

and infantile

 

Robert Durran - on 02 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Just watched the Belgium v Japan highlights. This world cup just goes on getting better and better - I almost wish I wasn't going off on a climbing trip with a near perfect weather weather forecast for the next two weeks!

Hat Dude on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to John W:

> Neymar - what a complete and utter tw*t!

One of the R5 pundits commented "How can somebody with so many tattoos, have such a low pain threshold?"

subtle on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Destiny awaits - roll on this evenings game!

Babika - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to subtle:

Looks like we'll be playing Sweden then

The New NickB - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

One game at a time. I think we can beat anyone in this competition, I also think we can lose to anyone in this competition.

Chris the Tall - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

No a lot of quality in that game, can’t see Sweden getting to the semis 

Babika - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Humbug!

Plenty of quality in the England team! It just needs...err....drawing out

Ex Poster 666 - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

Where are the goals going to come from?
Might need to send out for more beer for the extra 45 minutes ...

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Spiky first half.... honours even I reckon 

the clash with the head but though- a red card, I don’t understand how that can be a yellow; but I also don’t understand why Henderson went down holding the front of his face when he was struck underneath the chin.

who does he think he is? Neymar...?

;-)

Postmanpat on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Ex Poster 666:

What’s the score in the Scotland game?

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Postmanpat:

England 2 (Charlton, Hurst) 

Scotland 3 (Law, Lennox, McCalliog)

;-)

 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Postmanpat:

Ooof. Another foul...

Odds on Colombia finishing with 11 men...?

PENALTY!!!!

 

(spoiler alert...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

colombia look a beaten team- totally lost composure.

Post edited at 20:20
JoshOvki on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

The Ref is getting great value for his whistle mind. Every 30 seconds he seems to be blowing it.

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

He shoots!

he misses!

 

adios, Colombia...

JoshOvki on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Wow! It ain't over under the larger set lady starts singing...

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to JoshOvki:

Crap. 

 

Even as a scotland fan, that was hard to take. Colombia did nothing (other than collect bookings) for 92 mins, should have only had 10 men on the pitch, then that...?

edit: it’s just like watching Scotland (except at a stage of a tournament we never get to...)

Post edited at 21:11
Dr.S at work - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Value for money innit, extra time for free!

JoshOvki on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Yup, Welsh fan here and I was gutted. Colombia seem to be massively putting on the pressure now though.

Siward on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to JoshOvki:

Yep, Colombia are making all the chances now, England need to be in the other half. Penalties! Again? 

Chris the Tall - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to JoshOvki:

What has happened to England in the last 20 minutes. I’ve not seen this many backward passes since Liam O’Brien was playing for Tranmere 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to JoshOvki:

Yes, England look rattled. Penalties look like the best option now. Only consolation is that Colombia, for all their pressure, aren’t creating clear-cut chances. All the more bizarre that they got a goal, because they look pretty toothless overall. So do England though

ianstevens - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> What has happened to England in the last 20 minutes. I’ve not seen this many backward passes since Liam O’Brien was playing for Tranmere 

Obviously didn't watch the Spain match

 

JoshOvki on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

In the entire second half they seemed less aggressive and leaving more holes. Penalties it is then!

earlsdonwhu - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Who has the squeakiest bum?

JoshOvki on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

urggg. I didn't think I would get this into football. Last time I watched a match there was a bunch of rolling on the floor when no one was within 3ft of them

Post edited at 21:51
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Well, well, well... England win a penalty shootout! 

Could see that coming- last two Colombians were clearly bricking themselves as they walked up to take the pens...  

Sean Kelly - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I lost count of the number of times I died! Thank god it wasn't the Germans!!

elsewhere on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

That was not good for my blood pressure.

Dr.S at work - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

If that was a Rugby match there would have been a few red cards - I've no idea how the ref put up with that amount of abuse.

In reply to elsewhere:

Oddly good finish to a penalty shoot out. Trippier’s was brilliant when needed, then Pickford’s save amazing. Dier got lucky there but they lost their nerve I think. Really happy for Southgate.

Alan

Sean Kelly - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

England 1 - Thugs lost!

Chris the Tall - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Dr.S at work:

Can’t say I was very impressed by Columbia, they only started playing in the last 5 minutes of normal time. But I was convinced they would win the shoot out. Great save by Pickford

TobyA on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I was just driving back from Horseshoe and thinking the roads seemed really quiet. I don't think I'm a very good Englishmen... hmmm. Anyway, came in to find my Finnish wife watching the match and very excited. Saw the penalties, so maybe I saw the most important bit after all!

Dave the Rave on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Sean Kelly:

It was always going to be different than playing the Japaneessieze, but fair play to England, they weathered the cheating s—m well.

elsewhere on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Southgate "so much work has gone into owning the process" - sounds like the sports psychologists have been at work

becauseitsthere - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Brazil will sort you out

Sean Kelly - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

Can he now remove that paper bag?

Post edited at 22:35
Darren Jackson - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to becauseitsthere:

> Brazil will sort you out

Like the first swallow of summer, you know that a football tournament hasn't started in earnest until Scots console themselves, about their own team's absence, at the expense of England.

... Be patient. Only 4 more years to wait until you get another chance to compete. 

Hat Dude on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Can't help thinking Columbia might have done better if they'd had a proper manager; Charlie Watts is a great drummer but I'm not sure he knows a lot about international football.

Wanderer100 - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Amidst all the well earned pats on the back for winning a penalty shoot out let's not lose sight of the fact that England were awful up front. I cant remember Ospina having to make any saves. Deli Alli and Sterling were useless and Loftus Cheek has to start the next game. I would drop Ashley Young as well and bring in Danny Rose. 

Having said that I thought Trippier and McGuire were excellent as was Walker.

stevieb - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

> Southgate "so much work has gone into owning the process" - sounds like the sports psychologists have been at work

Do you honestly think England didn’t need psychologists (and an actual plan)  for penalty shoot outs?

stevieb - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to becauseitsthere:

> Brazil will sort you out

I hope they get the chance to try 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to becauseitsthere:

> Brazil will sort you out

more chance of England getting to the final than Brazil, given who they have to play to get there...

becauseitsthere - on 03 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> more chance of England getting to the final than Brazil, given who they have to play to get there...

I reckon England Brasil final. Brasil passing and possession too good.  But then again the French looked good. 

I like climbing - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

I wonder whether Rattin was assisting Pekerman ? Worst cheating I’ve seen so far in Russia

Post edited at 00:08
Rampikino - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

The sight of the Colombian player deliberately scuffing up the penalty spot sums it all up for me.  If that is in your "playbook" of tactics to try to get through to the next round of a football tournament then you deserve to go home.

earlsdonwhu - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

Typical approach of those Johnny foreigners!

yorkshireman - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

> Southgate "so much work has gone into owning the process" - sounds like the sports psychologists have been at work

You say that like it's a bad thing. Jumpers for goalposts are all well and good but you can bet the other teams are taking every aspect seriously - and the atmosphere in the stadium was certainly hostile to the England players - combine that with the pretty appalling attitude of the Colombian players, and our history in knockouts (not to mention) penalties and I'm pretty glad that somebody of Southgate's attitude is in charge.

Ben_Climber - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I was at the ENG-IND 20/20 cricket last night. 

We managed to watch most of the 1st innings then headed outside the ground to watch the game on the big screen. About 20 mins into the match I turned around to realise that nearly the whole ground had emptied out to watch the game. There were a few India fans still watching the cricket mind.

A great atmosphere and many a beer flying when Dier put that penalty away.

 

subtle on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Ben_Climber:

At least last night it showed that Vardy and Kane cannot operate within the same team - changed the whole dynami of the team changed when Vardy came on, changed the tempo of the game - lets hope Rashford or Loftus Cheek gets the nod ahead of Vardy in future.

GrahamD - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Ben_Climber:

We did rather better in the Football than the cricket, though !  sounds like a right hiding.

Rampikino - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

I disagree - many of the teams have been outstanding in their approach and all but 1 of them are Johnny Foreigners!

elsewhere on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to yorkshireman:

> You say that like it's a bad thing. Jumpers for goalposts are all well and good but you can bet the other teams are taking every aspect seriously - and the atmosphere in the stadium was certainly hostile to the England players - combine that with the pretty appalling attitude of the Colombian players, and our history in knockouts (not to mention) penalties and I'm pretty glad that somebody of Southgate's attitude is in charge.

My poor phrasing, most definitely not a bad thing.

He does have a great attitude of calm positivity avoiding the histrionics.

that phrase sounded pure GB cycling.

Post edited at 11:05
galpinos on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to subtle:

> At least last night it showed that Vardy and Kane cannot operate within the same team - changed the whole dynamic of the team changed when Vardy came on, changed the tempo of the game - lets hope Rashford or Loftus Cheek gets the nod ahead of Vardy in future.

I'm not sure you can blame Vardy for that. Dier came on first and I'd say he had a bigger impact on the tempo of the game, Vardy didn't get on until the very end of normal time. Also, Kane was struggling by that point (though still played very well) so Vardy looked quite isolated, the midfield seemed to have disappeared and the team seemed to adopt a hoof it long strategy from a bygone era so I think you are selling Vardy short.

Graeme Alderson on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Ben_Climber:

I was also there and did exactly the same. Great atmosphere at the end when all the Indian fans joined in supporting England.

subtle on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to galpinos:

Not convinced, Vardy and Kane operated in similar areas/channels so when Vardy came on Kane dropped deep, team lost shape and had to resort to long balls.

But potatoe potato, through to the next round - fingers crossed everyone fit and available to play (through yellow card counts as well)

 

Ben_Climber - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

It was a great night and as you say, brilliant to have the Indian fans join us all at the end!

I'm glad I didn't miss a decent game of cricket though ;)

galpinos on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to subtle:

> But potatoe potato, through to the next round - fingers crossed everyone fit and available to play (through yellow card counts as well)

Exactly! I do find it interesting that so many people can watch the same game and come to different conclusions. I would like to see Rashord and Loftus Cheek on at some point though and think they will be good against the Swedish defense, maybe at 65 minutes if the starting line up (same as this game) are struggling to penetrate.

I'm a little concerned about us managing to score against a decent Sweedish defense as our "goals form open play" count isn't exactly stellar......

 

In reply to galpinos:

One of the problems that Southgate has is keeping his penalty takers on the pitch when they are completely knackered. Really Kane should have been subbed yesterday but he is so key to the penalties that he had to stay on.

Alan

earlsdonwhu - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

Sorry, you are taking my flippant comment too seriously.

However, the antics of Neymar and Pepe have been noteworthy in their level of patheticness.

 

 

Sean Kelly - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Obviously Sterling is going through a bad patch, about three years! It's about time he was dropped!

Rampikino - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

Nah - I forgot my smiley face.

Some antics have really been ridiculous.  An utter embarrassment.  Playing up for VAR?

summo on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> One of the problems that Southgate has is keeping his penalty takers on the pitch when they are completely knackered. Really Kane should have been subbed yesterday but he is so key to the penalties that he had to stay on.

And if sweden play cleanly and don't give any away, England might not score.

 

Babika - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to subtle:

Was I the only one assuming that Vardy had been brought on purely for penalties, then he didn't take one? 

If you look at penalty stats from the Prem Kane and Vardy are far and away the most experienced. So why wasn't Vardy used? 

Was Southgate saving him for no 6 assuming that Colombia would be scraping the barrel and we would have a better chance? Seems a risky strategy to me..

summo on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

He had a groin strain I believe. 

TheDrunkenBakers - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Rampikino:

Why he wasnt sent off I dont know. Whats the difference between that and scuffing a cricket ball with sandpaper? He should also be retrospectively punished with a lengthy ban. The worst kind of sportsmanship.

Yanis Nayu - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Among a lot of scummy behaviour by the Colombians, that was right up there. 

Chris the Tall - on 04 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I’ve largely given up on Football over the last few years, but i’m feeling a bit bereft tonight. How will I cope until the next game on Friday afternoon?

Bob Kemp - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

Presumably Henderson was the volunteer to take Vardy's place. Less well prepared, would explain why his penalty was telegraphed so much. Not a regular penalty taker for Liverpool either. 

Edit - apparently Dier was the replacement. Another theory bites the dust...

Post edited at 00:20
Babika - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Kemp:

Well I hope we've got it slicker for the next 3 games.....

Apparently you can now bring a 4th sub on purely for penalties so Vardy can rest his groin on the bench for 120 minutes

Ridge - on 05 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

> Vardy can rest his groin on the bench for 120 minutes

I'm not allowed within 500m of a sports ground for doing that

 

mick taylor - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

The penalty shoot-out win was just what we needed – shows they can do it and emphasizes all games should be tough (first two games were against easy competition).  Kane got too tired because he did too much because we have little creativity in midfiled.  He was brilliant nonetheless.  Sterling hasn’t cut the mustard but plays well for Man City when he has class players to help him out, Ali doesn’t look as good as normal (injury not helping?),  Henderson solid but not creative.  Interestingly, Martin Keown reckoned Sterling played well because he dropped back a lot – this should not be his role.

Rashford and Loftus Cheek might be better options than Sterling and Ali, but they are not radically different in terms of their creativity.  The Swedish style may help Sterling (he’s lightweight so suffered against Columbian bully boys) and my gut feeling is that one moment of excellence from Sterling maybe all he needs to come good.

As a Wigan Latics fan I know only too well the levelling effect of knock out cup games (sorry to Man City fans for bringing it up again (not!)), and the importance of organisation and team spirit which Southgate has been excellent at.  So, I don’t think it makes that much difference who plays in the Sterling/Ali/Rashford/Cheek debate.  And whilst Sweden will be organized etc, so will England.

1-0 England because Kane is world class but there wont be many chances (secretly hoping for 3-1 tho!!!)

elsewhere on 06 Jul 2018

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/world-cup-drinking-game-neymar-belgium-fans-brazil/

Belgian fans are planning a drinking game to finish their beers every time Neymar falls over.

 

climbingpixie on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Blooming heck, Belgium are looking good!!

Chris the Tall - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

What on earth is a false number 9?

goldmember - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> What on earth is a false number 9?

Someone who operates between the midfield and backs. Messi in a barca shirt 

elsewhere on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to climbingpixie:

> Blooming heck, Belgium are looking good!!

Lukaku is great to watch. 

goldmember - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

> Lukaku is great to watch. 

Agreed. First touch generally awful

climbingpixie on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

Well I was not expecting that result! What a great match! I kind of hoped Brazil might equalize and we'd get another half an hour to watch

Pursued by a bear - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to climbingpixie:

It was rather fun, wasn't it? I'm not sorry to be seeing the last of Neymar.

So one of France or Belgium will play one of Russia, Croatia, Sweden or England in the final. Exciting times.

T.

BoingBoing - on 06 Jul 2018

I'm looking forward to having the hills to myself(almost) tomorrow

TheDrunkenBakers - on 06 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Yes. Neymar can roll all the way home now.

Chris the Tall - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> So one of France or Belgium will play one of Russia, Croatia, Sweden or England in the final. Exciting times.

And England are now the only non-European team left !

 

Oceanrower - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

If you mean geographically, err, we are European.

If you mean in the EU, err, Russia... ?

TheDrunkenBakers - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Come on Ingerland!

Yanis Nayu - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Yes!

Darren Jackson - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Sterling... Good grief. 

Postmanpat on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Remember 1970.....

Wainers44 - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Gosh

The Lemming - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Wainers44:

I've been out all day.

 

Did I miss anything?

Wainers44 - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to The Lemming:

Chris waddle just broke down on 5 live. Think he missed a penalty.... 

The Lemming - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Wainers44:

I've heard of him.  Did they use jumpers for goalposts again?

 

To be honest, I did not watch because I wrongly assumed the outcome.

 

nniff - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

England scored some tries, but for some reason they didn't get a chance at the conversions which I believe traditionally happen at the end.  I think.  What do I know?

summo on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to nniff:

> England scored some tries, but for some reason they didn't get a chance at the conversions which I believe traditionally happen at the end.  I think.  What do I know?

Both sides were amateurs, the Columbians were much better at tackling the opposition round the waist and dragging them to the ground. 

Wainers44 - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to The Lemming:

Didn't watch it either, spent the day trying to stop the springer drinking sea water near Polkerris. Far too hot for football, had to put more ice in the gin than normal. Nightmare.

Sounded fab on the radio. Our goalie is a bl**dy star. 

Babika - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Wainers44:

> Our goalie is a bl**dy star. 

Certainly is. 

He might be pint sized - particularly in comparison with the Swedish keeper - but he's got hands of steel! Some of those single hand saves were unbelievable!

 

Rampikino - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

Up for Golden Gloves now.

BoingBoing - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> Yes!


"Yes" What?

Chris the Tall - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Wow, some finish

Chris the Tall - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

I wonder how good this England team would have been if they had a proper manager like Sam Alladyce?

Wainers44 - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall

 

> I wonder how good this England team would have been if they had a proper manager like Sam Alladyce?

Probably out in the group stage. An unexpected 3-2 defeat against Panama.

 

Still, the management would have made new *friends* and would have returned all the richer for the experience. 

earlsdonwhu - on 07 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Croats and Russians doing a good job of thoroughly exhausting themselves.... hardly a surprise but neither looks to be as scary a prospect as France or Belgium.

Run_Ross_Run - on 08 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

A manager with questionable integrity and no evidence to suggest he would have been able to get as much/ even more out of the England team as/than Southgate has? 

 

I know who I'd prefer  

 

 

Bob Kemp - on 08 Jul 2018
In reply to Chris the Tall:

 That was a joke wasn't it?

Chris the Tall - on 08 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Kemp:

Erm yes, though I guessing people thought I was being serious. I’m not a fan of sting operations but the journalist who bought Sam Allardyce a pint of wine (!) did the country a huge favour. I remember when he was manager of Bolton, and the best plan he could come up with to deal with Tranmere’s long throw specialist was to close the emergency exits. It didn’t work.

Someone commented on Twitter that it would his sacking would make for great film plot along the lines of Sliding Doors!

mick taylor - on 08 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

Pickford, Trippier and Mcguire have all been waaaayyy better than I expected.  Still unsure about Sterling and Ali, but result was great.  That result was better than many people realise.  Sweden have beaten lots of very good teams in their world cup run (inc.  France and Italy I think?), but Pickford basicaly did the same as De Gea does for Utd.

Croatia will be tired, but very hard to call this game:  2-1 to England.

Cant wait.  This has been a phenomenal tournament.

Babika - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to mick taylor:

> Cant wait.  This has been a phenomenal tournament.

Yes and yes! 

100% we will win on Wednesday. It's the match after that I'm a bit less certain of. 

 

Jim C - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

> Yes and yes! 

> 100% we will win on Wednesday. It's the match after that I'm a bit less certain of. 

100% that sounds great to someone like me who knows nothing about football.

so how much have you bet with the bookies on this can't lose bet?

(got to be at least £1000, if not more? ) 

goldmember - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim C:

Few days national holiday if they make the final?  

kipper12 - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to Babika:

> Yes and yes! 

> 100% we will win on Wednesday. It's the match after that I'm a bit less certain of. 

I really hope you are right.  I will be more disappointed if we go out on Wednesday then if we had lost the Sweden game.  The final feels so close now and given the last time we made a final I can’t see me being above ground next time, I would like to see us contest another world final while I’m still breathing.

 

mick taylor - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to kipper12:

A thought:  in the Belgium game, vast majority of pundits thought Southgate should have played his full first team.  Thes pundits know diddleysquit about management and the conecpt of 'its a war not a battle'.  Croatia have played their first team in every game, last two games into extra time.  most of our first team had a long week off, extra time only once.  This freshness, and youth (croatia are an old team) could be a key fator.  

 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to mick taylor:

certainly could be. but the flip side of that is that Croatia are a very experienced team, whose players have a history of performing in big games. i think its really hard to call; and it could come down to whether their keeper is fit, in case it goes to penalties...

mick taylor - on 09 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Their keeper appears to have miraculous powers of recovery tho.

And, on the basis that all straws should be fully clutched, Croatian defender Vida has shown his support for the Ukraine, which has gone down like a lead balloon, and may turn many (not so) neutral Russian people into England supporters....possibly enough to make a 'twelfth man'...………..

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 10 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Nobody watching France v Belgium then?

Some player, that Mbappe...

BnB - on 10 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Both teams were excellent. But Framce were  so well drilled. They certainly look like eventual winners.

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 10 Jul 2018
In reply to BnB:

Yes, if England get past Croatia, France will be a formidable final opponent. England’s defence will be tested- visions of Mbappe and griezmann running at them at pace will give them some difficulty sleeping...! And they handled the Belgian attack very well. 

 

Roadrunner6 - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Pogba is France's forgotten man, he was excellent yesterday. 

I think both Belgium and France are a step ahead of both England and Croatia. Good teams but a way off those two and multiple world or top class players.

I think England can win both games, and should beat Croatia, but the final will be a big step up than they have had to play all tournament so far.

summo on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Some of France's very blatant time wasting in the last few minutes should have seen a red card, incredibly unsportsman like. Shame they got through for that reason alone. 

Irk the Purist - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to summo:

This is my biggest gripe with football. No-one wants to see teams taking the ball to the corner flag and dancing round it like a circus act. All it does is frustrate fans and wind the opposition up. What everyone wants to see is losing teams being given a chance to use all the time available to get a result. Not some titting around by the corner flag or a 2 minute long throw-in

It just doesn't happen in other sports and it's pathetic. 

Can you imagine the 5th day of an Ashes test, England are winning the series and need a draw in this final test to win the ashes. They are leading by 50 runs with 1 hour to play. Australia have 3 wickets remaining. Its tight. Very tight. But what's this? The bowler lengthens their run up to 5 laps of the outfield to waste time until bad light stops play.

 

Stuart en Écosse - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to summo:

That frustrated me too, but if you red card players for every bit of unsportsmanlike behaviour, every game would be down to two goalies doing long kicks over each others heads by about half time.

dave657 on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Irk the Purist:

They may not go to that length, but the over rate will definitely slow down. Or if the batsman need to waste time they'll be taking a fresh guard, getting a new pair of gloves, spotting any hint of movement behind the bowlers arm as often as they can. Time wasting happens in nearly every sport, if it will give a team an advantage. Not just football.

summo on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Stuart en Écosse:

> That frustrated me too, but if you red card players for every bit of unsportsmanlike behaviour, every game would be down to two goalies doing long kicks over each others heads by about half time.

There is making a chancy tackle that goes wrong and you get yellow carded, then there is deliberated timing wasting on a corner and dribbling the ball away from an opposition player stood there to pick it up. It's a terrible example from supposed heroes to the younger generation. Red card, or at least no chance of playing in the final. It's border lining cheating. 

The New NickB - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Irk the Purist:

Time wasting is so common in cricket, that they regularly issue fines for it. Was it Greg Chappell who bowled the last ball of a match underarm to ensure it could not be hit for the six that was required.

MG - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Irk the Purist:

It's pretty easy to solve - just have time limits.  Lots of sports do this, such as basketball and squash.

The fundamental problem with football is it is too low scoring, which means chance plays too big a chance in results.  As a concept its not a very good game really.

thomasadixon - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Irk the Purist:

Certainly happens in rugby too.  Boring, agreed, but it is a sensible tactic sometimes and the aim is to win not to provide a show...

Hat Dude on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to The New NickB:

Trevor Chappell bowled it under instruction from the captain, his brother Greg

mick taylor - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Irk the Purist:

It only annoys you if its your team that's loosing.  If we get to the final, and we are one nil up with 90 seconds to go, I sincerely hope its what our players do (if Japan had done this, no way would have Chadli got the winner for Belgium).

mick taylor - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Spot on.

Another straw I have decided to clutch is this:  One of the Wild Boars football team was wearing a three lions shirt, so I assume he must support England, and English cave divers found them first, so he will pass on his mega vibes to England.

C'mon England - do it for the Wild Boars !!!!!

Croatia have to be tired, and we have yet to se the best out of our fast attacking play.  2 nil England.

cb294 - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I hope someone tells Mbappe not to turn into Neymar light.

Some of his attacking moves were sublime, but his diving and whining was just ridiculous. 

In any case I believe this game was the premature final.

CB

Oceanrower - on 11 Jul 2018
SDM on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Irk the Purist:

As others have said, time-wasting is a problem that is far from unique to football. You have the slow over rates in cricket, people not hearing the whistle and pretending to run clear in rugby to avoid having to hand the ball over and the final quarter of any close American football match is pretty much all about 'time management'.

Holding on to the ball by the corner flag in open play isn't a problem; you have 90 minutes to score, why should the winning team try to maximise the time available for the losing team to try and equalise? If you have the ability to actually hold the ball effectively at the corner flag, (i.e not England) you would be stupid not to. The ball is in play and is yours to do with as you please. 

The time-wasting when the ball is out of play, however, is a problem and should be cracked down on. The going down and staying down whenever a player is anywhere near you, the fake cramps, kicking the ball away, standing in the way of free kicks to prevent them being taken, arguing with the ref for minutes to build up the tension before a penalty can be taken, taking a minute to walk off when substituted etc etc are embarrassing and should be clamped down on with zero tolerance. Surely nobody thinks allowing these things adds anything to the game? 

summo on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to SDM:

Totally agree. The best games to watch so far, regardless of outcome, have been those that weren't marred by endless grappling, hacking and diving. Thankfully the worst offenders have already flown home. 

fred99 - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to SDM:

> As others have said, time-wasting is a problem that is far from unique to football.

If someone does it in athletics, then they can (and do) get a Conduct Warning - which remains in force until the meeting has ended - this tends to rather focus their mind on NOT trying gamesmanship to p*ss off the other competitors.

A second Conduct Warning within the meeting means disqualification. If the meeting is multi-day (e.g. Olympics), then even if the second offence is a week later it's still disqualification.

Maybe football could take something from this.

mick taylor - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to MG:

The low scoring nature of football is not a problem, it sets it apart from other well followed sports (cricket, baseball, rugby, basketball etc) in that a game can, and often does, change very quickly and is often unpredictable until the very end (this world cup in particular has had numerous last minute winners).

I think the time limit idea has some merit, adapted so they play actual footie for x number minutes.

earlsdonwhu - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

In rugby, the equivalent is ensuring there are endless reset scrums and lots of trundling forward drives from which it is virtually impossible for the defenders to get the ball without infringement.

earlsdonwhu - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

The other problem with shielding the ball in the corners is that it often seems that the defender is simply obstructing without any intent to play the ball. It is the same with 'shepherding' the ball out for a throw or goal kick. Referees could penalise for the obstruction.

Roadrunner6 - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Irk the Purist:

Taking to the corner flag is part of the game. Perfectly legal.

when I played as keeper it was my job to time waste. We paid fines ourselves but my bookings for time wasting was paid by the team. My job was to read the team and know when my players needed a breather or I could take 30 seconds off the clock.

but we’d do similar in rugby.

what MBappe did is just part of the game and he was punished accordingly, the ref made the mistake by not adding more time on because of it. 

The only way to stop it is go the American Football way and just have the clock going when the ball is in play which would probably mean 30 minutes half’s as that’s about as much time as the ball is actually in play in 45 minute half’s.

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to mick taylor:

It is interesting that time added on at the end of a half is vastly different if comparing the first half to the second.

Very rare to get more than 1 minute added to a first half, and very rare to get less than 3 minutes added to a second half. What causes that trend?

 

SDM on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

The main difference is substitutions which are nearly all in the second half and each result in about 30 seconds being added.

There are also far more injuries (and "injuries") in the second half and I think more goals too.

But referees clearly get it wrong as well. I have often seen 1st halves, particularly in European games, where there have been both injuries and time-wasting yet the referee has blown for half time bang on 45:00.

MG - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to mick taylor:

> The low scoring nature of football is not a problem, it sets it apart from other well followed sports (cricket, baseball, rugby, basketball etc) in that a game can, and often does, change very quickly and is often unpredictable until the very end (this world cup in particular has had numerous last minute winners).

That to me is the problem.  If a game is so unpredictable, it isn't a very good game.  It perhaps works in a league setting where results are aggregated over many games but in knock-out competitions there is too much "snakes and ladders" involved.  One error, or piece of luck, changes the whole outcome.

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to MG:

"One error, or piece of luck, changes the whole outcome."

Which is what we will be relying on against France if we get past Croatia tonight ;-)

SDM on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to MG:

> That to me is the problem.  If a game is so unpredictable, it isn't a very good game.  It perhaps works in a league setting where results are aggregated over many games but in knock-out competitions there is too much "snakes and ladders" involved.  One error, or piece of luck, changes the whole outcome.

It is the unpredictability that makes the game so interesting to watch. In many sports, a game between the top team/person in the world vs the 20th ranked team/person will be a foregone conclusion with the lower ranked opponent almost certain to be on the wrong side of a drubbing.

In football, even the very best teams are more than capable of losing to some fairly mediocre sides if they are on the wrong side of some luck or a particularly good/bad performance.

Luke90 on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to SDM:

Referees certainly do get it wrong. FiveThirtyEight made their own measures of injury time according to FIFA's guidelines and found that injury time is consistently underestimated. Which, of course, does reward time-wasting behaviour. If a team manages to waste a minute, that might only add 30 seconds or less to injury time.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/world-cup-stoppage-time-is-wildly-inaccurate/

They also found that Roadrunner's estimate of 30 minutes of actual play per half is pretty much spot on. They measured 55 minutes total play on average.

MG - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to SDM:

> It is the unpredictability that makes the game so interesting to watch. In many sports, a game between the top team/person in the world vs the 20th ranked team/person will be a foregone conclusion with the lower ranked opponent almost certain to be on the wrong side of a drubbing.

I agree when things are too predictable that also leads to something that isn't interesting .  For me there needs to be uncertainty about the result because of possible variations in tactics  and approach, not just luck, for a sport to be interesting.  In almost all sports there is a balance but for me football is much too far towards the luck side of things.

> In football, even the very best teams are more than capable of losing to some fairly mediocre sides if they are on the wrong side of some luck 

Exactly.  So why not just toss a coin?

 

mick taylor - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I'm not a rule book expert, but watch over 30 games a year:  in second half you get most substitutions @ 30 seconds a sub, most goals scored second half (tiredness kicks in, and effort etc) @ 30 seconds a goal, more free kicks (due to tiredness therefore injuries, time-wasting) which the ref can add on.  So, when the fourth official gets the snazzy board out saying '4 mins extra time', this is a minimum and if a team scores in this time and makes a sub the ref should add on an extra minute.

mick taylor - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to MG:

I think it is something you are either into or you are not.  Man Utd beat Bayern Munich in Champions League final  with 2 goals in injury time, won 2-1.  For many utd fans (I knew people who where there), the greatest few minutes of their lives !!! (a mate of mine was still in a group hug celebrating the first gaol when the second went in - totally missed it !!!) And Ben Watson scored a 91st winner against Man City in FA Cup Final.  The unpredictability is what makes it so great, especially an injury time winner.

mick taylor - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to MG:  

> In almost all sports there is a balance but for me football is much too far towards the luck side of things

There is luck, especially when taken at an individual game level, but if you look Champions league winners, winners of Spanish League, German League, French League and many others (Liverpool in 70's/80's, Utd in 90's) - the predictability is almost boring - not much luck involved.  And when you really drill down and analyse (for geeks like me usually) what is often initially considered luck can be put down to a fine tuning management decision, a particularly skill-full goal, a goal keeping error.

Saying that, I hope England get as much luck as possible tonight !!!

 

elsewhere on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to MG:

Games have tension and drama as long as you don't know the result.

Unpredictable games are interesting to the end.

A predictable game has no tension or drama as you know the winner early on in the game or even before the game starts.

 

MG - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

> Games have tension and drama as long as you don't know the result.

> Unpredictable games are interesting to the end.

As above, if the unpredictability is largely derived from possible changes in tactics etc, I agree.  If it is largely luck, I don't.  Snakes and Ladders, for example, isn't a great game because it is all luck.

> A predictable game has no tension or drama as you know the winner early on in the game or even before the game starts.

Again, as above, I agree.

 

Post edited at 16:45
elsewhere on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to MG:

Much of the unpredictability in football is skill based - will the player score that outrageous goal or will the post/defender/goalie stop the ball? That's not luck, that's the unpredictability of players operating at their very limits.

I'd say what might be described as luck is mostly skill. Harry Kane is not on the team because he has a lot more luck than I do. It's his skill that counts.

 

Post edited at 17:09
Jim C - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

So the several times that I thought Kane has been 'unlucky' not to score was actually his lack of skill?

Dave the Rave on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim C:

> So the several times that I thought Kane has been 'unlucky' not to score was actually his lack of skill?

They’re coming home, they’re coming home .....

baron - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Not until they’ve been beaten by Belgium!

 

stevieb - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to stevieb:

Well going with my pre tournament hope - I'm hoping for England to perform well and just create some good memories, a great goal or two, and get out of the group obviously

we achieved that. We were never great and we got to the World Cup semi final. Well done 

BoingBoing - on 11 Jul 2018
elsewhere on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Jim C:

I  take it all back we were unlucky

Dave the Rave on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to baron:

> Not until they’ve been beaten by Belgium!

If anyone watches that they’re mad.

Job done, game over for another 4 then it all starts again. Yep they’re probably disappointed but will still wake up millionaires.

summo on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> If anyone watches that they’re mad.

> Job done, game over for another 4 then it all starts again. Yep they’re probably disappointed but will still wake up millionaires.

 Let's hope they don't turn into the less hungry, selfish, stuck up, entitled team like the Beckham, Rooney era.. otherwise England will be back to exiting in the group stages. 

stevieb - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> If anyone watches that they’re mad.

> Job done, game over for another 4 then it all starts again. Yep they’re probably disappointed but will still wake up millionaires.

Kane has to outscore lukaku to hold on to his golden boot 

nathan79 - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Big sigh of relief this side of the border. Not because of an anti-English sentiment, but because hopefully it knocks the sickeningly smug expression of Gary Lineker face.

In a strange World Cup your boys did well. Beaten by the best team you faced (Belgium) and the tricky Croats. No shame in either.

Dave the Rave on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to summo:

>  Let's hope they don't turn into the less hungry, selfish, stuck up, entitled team like the Beckham, Rooney era.. otherwise England will be back to exiting in the group stages. 

Under achieving bunch of wankers.

MG - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

> I  take it all back we were unlucky

Glad you've seen the light 

Dave the Rave on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to nathan79:

> Big sigh of relief this side of the border. Not because of an anti-English sentiment, but because hopefully it knocks the sickeningly smug expression of Gary Lineker face.

> In a strange World Cup your boys did well. Beaten by the best team you faced (Belgium) and the tricky Croats. No shame in either.

They weren’t good enough and as soon as the hype started it was over.

Nothing to see here. Lineker will now be more smug.

Pursued by a bear - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to stevieb:

Anyone aware of which European countries are home to about 40 million people?

Reason I ask is in Euro 2016 England lost to Iceland (pop about 400,00) and we've just lost to Croatia (pop 4 million).  So this time we're an order of magnitude better than two years ago and if we continue to improve at our current rate, then in Euro 2020 we'll lose to a country with a population of about 40 million then in the 2022 world cup, we'll lose to a country with a population of about 400 million (though surely not the USA. Please).  So by Euro 2024, there'll be no country big enough to beat us.

There's always an upside if you look hard enough.

T.

stevieb - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> Anyone aware of which European countries are home to about 40 million people?

There’ll be no shame in losing to spain, or Poland at a push

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Spain would fit the bill. Though they seem to be heading in the opposite direction to England... turgid and dull, and deserved their second round exit.

in the end the result tonight was probably right; Croatia had about 8 shots on target compared to England’s one, so it certainly wasn’t against the balance of play. 

But if they had been more clinical in the first half, then they would have been out of sight and Croatia wouldn’t have had a chance to turn the game around 

massive progress for England; and they will be stronger in 2 years, Portugal, Spain, Germany, and Croatia won’t be

andymac - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

The hype was getting silly.

to put it in perspective ,it's been a poor World Cup,and any other time ,Enland would never have got to the semis.

none of the big powers turned up in Russia.

apart from ,I suppose France.

 

 

andymac - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> Spain would fit the bill. Though they seem to be heading in the opposite direction to England... turgid and dull, and deserved their second round exit.

> in the end the result tonight was probably right; Croatia had about 8 shots on target compared to England’s one, so it certainly wasn’t against the balance of play. 

> But if they had been more clinical in the first half, then they would have been out of sight and Croatia wouldn’t have had a chance to turn the game around 

> massive progress for England; and they will be stronger in 2 years, Portugal, Spain, Germany, and Croatia won’t be

Spain ,Germany and probably Croatia will always be strong.

Germany or Spain will win the next World Cup .and the next.

johncoxmysteriously - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

 

We can hardly have had only one shot in target - Subasic saves one on one from Keane and Stones’ header was cleared off the line, for a start.

Croatia were the better team though and deserved to win.

 

jcm

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

You’re correct: 

croatia 22 shots, 7 on target

england 11 shots, 2 on target

Overall Croatia were the better side; but in such a close match, a little bit more composure and they could have done it...

 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 11 Jul 2018
In reply to andymac:

> Spain ,Germany and probably Croatia will always be strong.

> Germany or Spain will win the next World Cup .and the next.

Germany looked like a side at the end of an era who need to go and completely rebuild

spain have become a caricature of themselves

 Croatia- rakatic will be 34 at the next WC, modric and mandzukic 36; this was their last real chance

 

Wanderer100 - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

> Croatia were the better team though and deserved to win.

> jcm

Yep. The better team won on the night. I expect France will win the final.

summo on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> Anyone aware of which European countries are home to about 40 million people?

> Reason I ask is in Euro 2016 England lost to Iceland (pop about 400,00) and we've just lost to Croatia (pop 4 million).  So this time we're an order of magnitude better than two years ago ......

The problem is the other English counties. I think a third of the squad are from Yorkshire. Just like the GB Olympic team, Yorkshire is propping up the country. The other counties really need to pull their weight. 

 

Wanderer100 - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> spain have become a caricature of themselves

What? Were they eating paella, having a siesta and drinking Sangria whilst playing football?? No wonder they lost!

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to andymac:

I think you're wrong.  Some of Germany's FA have been to St Georges Park to see whats happening in England such is the admiration of whats happening at youth level. We are world champions at every level apart from seniors (semi finalists) . We have a national manager who the players respect and seems to have a very analytical approach to understanding international football. He also has managed to create a positive vibe with the fans so the toxic relationship England team had with the fans in the past seems to have dissipated. 

I am very confident we can continue to improve from what I have seen this WC. I also completely disagree that this has been a poor WC, it's been one of the best I can remember, high scoring games, traditional heavyweights getting found out, some outstanding individual performances and England chrysalis from over paid , underperforming prima donnas into keen hungry youngsters more interested in football than f*cking pop stars.

Having said that, you might not be English and relished in yesterdays loss, so enjoy your moment if that's the case

Chris the Tall - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> You’re correct: 

> croatia 22 shots, 7 on target

> england 11 shots, 2 on target

> Overall Croatia were the better side; but in such a close match, a little bit more composure and they could have done it...

In the first half England scored, hit the post, had one headed off the line and a reasonable penalty shout. I thought it was the best i’ve seen England play since they scored 4 in the first half against Netherlands in 96. With a bit more luck the score line could have been similar and the game killed off.

cb294 - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I don't think we (Germany) need to rebuild completely, after all the B teams won the confed cups and U21 championships last summer. However, a break with the generation of 2014 is needed, but such breaks are hard to get right. In recent world cups only Brazil, the 2002 winners were any good in 2006. After that, Italy in 2010, Spain in 2014, and now Germany in 2018 failed badly.

I assume the four year break between cups is just long enough to keep the old guard in contention, and just too long to keep the interest and tension high enough. This is supported by a better correlation with winning WC and Euros or vice versa, where the gap is only two years.

That said I think Southgate did a great job, transforming the rabble that lost to Iceland two years into a promising young team, but obviously you cannot buy experience. It will be interesting to see how England will do in two years. Will they continue to improve and become true contenders, or has this generation peaked too early and failed to capitalize on a very generous draft (and all other contenders bar France being either crap or absent)?
I would only ask you to leave two things at home: That horrible band (give me vuvuzelas any day!), and Kyle Walker. What a crap actor, getting slightly touched in the back of the neck (just before the Mandzukic yellow) before dramatically collapsing, clutching his face! Funniest point of the match was him getting the ball into his family planning parts a few minutes later, instant karma...

I will support Croatia on Sunday, and would have liked Belgium to be there as well, just to be sure to see a new champion rather than one of the usual suspects.

CB

summo on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to cb294:

I think England might come back stronger; there are more youths coming through and they can drop players who either can't act or failed to fully perform, Henderson didn't really feature at all last night for example etc.. 

There will be fame and glory for them when they get home. If some become selfish prima donnas they can be axed too. 

cb294 - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to summo:

Possible, and if this happens it is largely due to Southgate. People generally thought he was a FA yes man with limited coaching experience, but he did well in managing the much needed squad turnover. The English set pieces also where great, and that is one thing a national coach can work on (for the overall shape he largely has to work with whatever players are comfortable with from their clubs). A class guy as well, I liked how he consoled the Uruguay player who hit the bar after the penalty shootout.

CB

mick taylor - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to summo:

Hendersons worst game, but we would have probably lost even if he played at his best.  I'm a bit disappointed, but really enjoyed the whole tournament.

You are right about youngsters - hope they get the chance to play and develop at their clubs (or move to a club that will play them).

Anyway, proper football starts soon, with the Mighty Wigan Latics playing Rangers in friendly in a couple of weeks.  3-2 to Wigan, Grigg to score and the chant will begin !!!

Hat Dude on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

At least England went out with some dignity which isn't a word often associated with the team for a good few years.

Darren Jackson - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to cb294:

>... A class guy as well, I liked how he consoled the Uruguay player who hit the bar after the penalty shootout.

He literally went out of his way there; given that England didn't play Uruguay. 

 

cb294 - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Ah come on, I only missed by a few thousand km...

Colombia, of course!

CB

andymac - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

 

> Having said that, you might not be English and relished in yesterdays loss, so enjoy your moment if that's the case

Yes ,I'm Scottish ,but I think it's rather presumptuous ,and patronising ,on your part to assume that I relished England's defeat.

I honestly couldn't care either way.

20 years ago I would have said different.

RomTheBear on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> I am very confident we can continue to improve from what I have seen this WC.

I think so too. England has had a great WC and looks really good for the future. Really like the players as well and the coach. They are just decent lads and have really done their best. A good change from the past.

Not sure what happened there against Croatia though ! Massive missed opportunity...

England fans face a tough dilemma for the final: supporting the team that beat them, or support France. Ouch !

 

 

Post edited at 20:03
Dave the Rave on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to andymac:

> Yes ,I'm Scottish ,but I think it's rather presumptuous ,and patronising ,on your part to assume that I relished England's defeat.

> I honestly couldn't care either way.

> 20 years ago I would have said different.

I’m disappointed that you’ve had that accusation levelled at you Andy.

The poster clearly doesn’t know who you are and the work that you’ve done at both grass roots and Premier level within English football.

Take no notice. You have more footballing knowledge and history than some on here.

Keep the red flag flying high mate.

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

I think this England side is changing opinions about the team elsewhere in the U.K. 

i mean, recent England teams haven’t even been liked in England, never mind north of the border.

the current version- decent lads, who don’t seem to be carried away with themselves, with a great manager, playing exciting positive football. Enjoyed watching their run, and I think they will be a real threat at the Euros in 2 years. 

I just hope Scotland have been watching what a country of only 4 million can do, and get their act together and qualify too- but I’m not holding my breath....

Dave the Rave on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> I think this England side is changing opinions about the team elsewhere in the U.K. 

Doubt it. Have you seen Barry beach?

> i mean, recent England teams haven’t even been liked in England, never mind north of the border.

Or West of the border.

> the current version- decent lads, who don’t seem to be carried away with themselves, with a great manager, playing exciting positive football. Enjoyed watching their run, and I think they will be a real threat at the Euros in 2 years. 

Dream on. Haven’t you learned your lessons? Nice lads and manager I agree.

> I just hope Scotland have been watching what a country of only 4 million can do, and get their act together and qualify too- but I’m not holding my breath....

Big tournaments need the Tartan Army along with the Dutch. 

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Well history is against them- but as I said earlier on thread, most of the competition is going through a rocky period- the Dutch really seem to have lost their way, Italy need to rebuild , as do Germany, Portugal without Ronaldo are average, Spain seem to have forgotten that you need to score, not just pass the ball around, Croatia are getting old; if ever there was a good time to peak, its 2 years from now. They need to improve, and find someone apart from Kane that can score, and I hope the positive coverage they get doesn’t turn sour the next time they lose...

 

scotland- the rivalry with England only works if its a genuine rivalry. It’s been pretty abject stuff in recent years, and we’re kidding ourselves on to think we can compete these days. I mean, even wales are streets ahead of us now... ffs,Wales!!! 

;-)

Dave the Rave on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> Well history is against them- but as I said earlier on thread, most of the competition is going through a rocky period- the Dutch really seem to have lost their way, Italy need to rebuild , as do Germany, Portugal without Ronaldo are average, Spain seem to have forgotten that you need to score, not just pass the ball around, Croatia are getting old; if ever there was a good time to peak, its 2 years from now. They need to improve, and find someone apart from Kane that can score, and I hope the positive coverage they get doesn’t turn sour the next time they lose...

Possibly so. They weren’t bad to be fair but lacked the guile that I posted higher up.

> scotland- the rivalry with England only works if its a genuine rivalry. It’s been pretty abject stuff in recent years, and we’re kidding ourselves on to think we can compete these days. I mean, even wales are streets ahead of us now... ffs,Wales!!! 

Its quite easy to see what went wrong in Scotland. The big four or five clubs buying foreigners back in the 90’s. Great for the clubs at the time but no forethought.

The Icelandic league probably isn’t strong either but their players play abroad. So, it’s not valid to compare Iceland and Scotland in their recent success? Not that you have compared.

> ;-)

 

andymac - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

I was talking to an older red today about the United A,B,and C teams of the late 80s ;)

Robbo was in the top team.and Norm

 

oh and my newish neighbour across the road was a Cliff groupie back in the day.She more or less admits to being obsessed with Sharpie.

who could blame her.he was gorrrrrgeous??

Post edited at 23:23
Wanderer100 - on 12 Jul 2018
In reply to Dave the Rave:

>.

> Big tournaments need the Tartan Army along with the Dutch. 

I didn't hear anyone lamenting the lack of tartan or Orange at this World Cup.  Given Scotland haven't made the World Cup finals for 20 years it is manifestly not the case that tournaments miss them.

Ex Poster 666 - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Wanderer100:

Scotwhere?

Dave the Rave on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to andymac:

> I was talking to an older red today about the United A,B,and C teams of the late 80s ;)

> Robbo was in the top team.and Norm

> oh and my newish neighbour across the road was a Cliff groupie back in the day.She more or less admits to being obsessed with Sharpie.

What a talent he was. He does the footballers evenings now and is very funny. Some good you tube vids.

I bet you have some good tales from back in the day Andy. Have you thought of doing the circuit?

> who could blame her.he was gorrrrrgeous??

 

Roadrunner6 - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

This is a decent side playing decent football who will beat teams they should.. something we haven’t done in the past.

BUT.. it’s current line up leaves Henderson too exposed against good teams. Once Modric got control they dominated.

Defensively we are very weak in the center. We are relying on Walker, a make shift part of the back 3 who makes mistakes and doesn’t read the game well but relies on pace. And then stones and Jones who barely play 20 games a season as their managers don’t trust them. Maguires the only one we can rely on.

i hope we keep 3-5-2 and build on it with youth but as it stands we’re a long way off being a top team, we’re just a decent team who was probably going to get to the quarters but for freak results that threw us Sweden.

 

 

earlsdonwhu - on 16:45 Sun
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

VAR cock up in the final. Absurd decision......slow motion doesn't always portray things correctly.

climbingpixie on 16:54 Sun
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

The first goal shouldn't have happened either - there was no way that was a free kick. I've gone from feeling quite ambivalent over who wins to fully supporting Croatia because of this dodgy refereeing.

earlsdonwhu - on 17:02 Sun
In reply to climbingpixie:

Agree completely.

climbingpixie on 17:23 Sun
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

I'll give them those last two though...

Wanderer100 - on 17:25 Sun
In reply to climbingpixie:

It's a whupping.  Great goal from Mbappe.

TheDrunkenBakers - on 17:56 Sun
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Croatia robbed.  Utterly.

Pyreneenemec - on 18:36 Sun
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Boll*cks !

 

A few cock-ups on both sides but WE ( yeah I'm French today)  deserve their second star ! 

Great for Didier Deschamps, 20 years after !

Bravo les blues et Vive La France !

Post edited at 18:37
tripehound - on 19:15 Sun
In reply to climbingpixie:

> I'll give them those last two though...

They got the last two because Croatia had to run it out and take risks going forward to catch up. Those two bad decisions changed the whole game. Croatia were by far the better side.

planetmarshall on 19:36 Sun
In reply to tripehound:

>  Croatia were by far the better side.

You don't get beaten 4 goals to 2 by being the better side.

 

Dave the Rave on 20:23 Sun
In reply to planetmarshall:

> >  Croatia were by far the better side.

> You don't get beaten 4 goals to 2 by being the better side.

You do if you have bad decisions made against you.

Wanderer100 - on 20:27 Sun
In reply to planetmarshall:

> >  Croatia were by far the better side.

> You don't get beaten 4 goals to 2 by being the better side.

I agree. France were the better team not only on the day but throughout the tournament. 

MonkeyPuzzle - on 21:56 Sun
In reply to planetmarshall:

> >  Croatia were by far the better side.

> You don't get beaten 4 goals to 2 by being the better side.

If the other side is basically given a two headstarts by awful decisions you do. Part of the whole drama of football is that the best team can and regularly does lose.

Up until France's third goal, Croatia were by far the better side but then had to go and Chase the game leaving more openings for France.

planetmarshall on 22:22 Sun
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> If the other side is basically given a two headstarts by awful decisions you do. Part of the whole drama of football is that the best team can and regularly does lose.

Nah, I don't buy it. I know that a lot of people may think this, but I suspect it's the heart and not the head coming to that conclusion. The better team almost always wins, and if a decision goes against you, you have 90 minutes in which to demonstrate that you're the better team by overcoming that injustice.

 

MonkeyPuzzle - on 01:59 Mon
In reply to planetmarshall:

In which departments, up until 60mins, did you think the French were better than Hrvatska?

planetmarshall on 06:01 Mon
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> In which departments, up until 60mins, did you think the French were better than Hrvatska?

I didn't say up until 60mins. Football is a game of... what's that saying again?

MonkeyPuzzle - on 09:10 Mon
In reply to planetmarshall:

One and a half sixty minute periods?

Pursued by a bear - on 14:14 Mon
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

All in all, I thought the World Cup was rather better than I was expecting.  Thoroughly enjoyed the final!

T.

wbo - on 14:34 Mon
In reply to Pursued by a bear:I'd agree with that.  I had very low expectations going into it, but they were well exceeded.  Best final I've seen for many years too - actually a very good game.

 


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