UKC

I recently posted about my Money Pit VW passat and various issues with the garage.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/paying_mechanic_for_a_car_that_...

This is my latest query.

I’ve had new fuel injectors and glow plugs fitted and the car is now running but has an amber engine light and a code for “EGR flow insufficient”.

My new mechanic (moved on from the old one) can’t seem to find the issue and has told us that the best option is to just bypass the EGR, block it off and reprogram the ECU to not recognise any error codes from it - €250 for this. 
 

This doesn't seem right to me and Im worried it will make the car fail its NCT on emissions next month (irish version of MOT).

Any mechanically minded people want to chip in with some advice? Thanks. 

In reply to ogreville:

Isn't the best option to clean out the EGR valve/check it's not stuck? It's not clear from your post if this has already been done. 

I think the car will fail on NOx like you say if you bypass it.

In reply to ogreville:

Oil seal on the turbo starting to fail, clogging the egr maybe. 

In reply to ogreville:

I'm pretty certain that's illegal. So it almost certainly won't pass it's next inspection on emissions as you pointed out. Also you could get a hefty fine if you're caught. 

In reply to flatlandrich:

As always, not quite true.

Not illegal to remove, but makes the vehicle illegal to use on the road, due to tampering with emissions equipment. Much like any exhaust mod. air filter change etc etc seen on every hot hatch/modified car on the road.

Providing there's no engine management light on when MOT'ing the vehicle its very unlikely to be picked up, as the MOT only tests for smoke density

The quick version

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/vehicle-test-procedures

and the heavy version

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/...

In reply to flatlandrich:

It is, but is often touted as a “fix” for VAG engines which are admittedly prone to EGR blockages.

In reply to ianstevens: Had this with  new shape Beetle (essentially a Golf) as a known issue the garage we always take our cars to would ‘fix’ the  ERG for the duration of the MOT, pass the car, we’d go back on the road legally, engine warning light would come on a little while after, back to garage to bypass the ERG and off goes the engine warning light. All good - within reason.

Older cars, bad ERG design, what are we supposed to do other than try for a reasonable workaround? Beetle would pass on everything else, every time.

In reply to BRILLBRUM:

I don’t know the answer, but I never had an issue with my older VW. I made a point of cleaning the EGR early on, and never put cheap fuel in it, brands only. It seemed fine! (Other issues not withstanding)

In reply to ogreville: I’d be interested to know how many, if any, fails or fines have been handed out for bypassing the DPF or whatever it is. I suspect none. 

In reply to ogreville:

My EGR is either intermittently not working or permanently not working with an intermittent error light (probably the same code as yours - insufficient flow through EGR). My mechanic gave me some... I think it was spark plug or injector or something fuel additive stuff to put in and said it might work. He said there is also an aerosol that you can spray in the air intake but it's terrifying because it can cause the engine to rev uncontrollably high, even well after the procedure has been finished.

I've driven thousands of miles with this, possibly intermittent, problem and never had any other problems developing from it although allegedly a vehicle can decide to go into "limp mode" where it cuts a lot of the power from the engine and you have to drive fairly slow to a garage... However not in my experience.

The last time it went through an MOT, the light was not on, so maybe it was working... maybe not... either way, it passed the MOT no problem.

On my van the EGR is very accessible, so it's not a big problem to change, though there is a coolant manifold thing that is part of the same unit which adds a little more time and hassle. But two mechanics I've mentioned it to immediately said that the EGR is often totally buried and an absolute mission to get to and take off, so to expect labour to be pretty high for replacing it. So one thing you need to do is use some google/youtube foo to find out were it is on your car and how hard it will be to get it out.

Edit: As of the last week or so, the light is now off again after the additive cleaner stuff had been through the engine, so fingers crossed the problem is solved for the immediate future at least.

In reply to ogreville:

It's a money pit. Throw it away. Buy a cheap Micra. Plenty of them in the scrapyards, so no shortage of spares. They're only driven by elderly ladies who do about a year to the gallon. Twiddle the key, and they go.

Thats my advice 

In reply to ogreville:

Ey up,

I posted this same advice to your previous thread but I think it might be worth pursuing, unless your new mechanic has ruled it out: either clean or replace the EGR valve and/or your throttle body valve. If they're really gunged up or just old and knackered they'll be sticking - do you find yourself losing power on hills or does the engine run on a little after you key it off? Hard starting?

I had a recurring amber engine light for months and went through changing the glow plugs to no avail. Replacing the valves sorted it, my EGR was so full of gunge that cleaning it failed to restore it and the throttle body had just failed mechanically. Replaced over a year ago and totally kosher since. VW T5 so basically the same engine.

Jim

Edited to add, mine wasn't a problem until I started getting sudden massive power loss in sh1t places.

In reply to henwardian:

I had mine swapped out under a recall (BMW), the maintenance manager I spoke to while waiting for my key said it was turning into a total nightmare for BMW (several years of 4 and 6cl engine production recalled) and a gift for dealers as it hardly ever went smoothly! Especially since oxy-acetylene had been banned from the shop they'd regularly end up having to replace manifolds and even turbos after fixings broke. Glad I wasn't paying.

OP: might be worth checking if it's ever been subject to a recall and whether it's been done.

jk

In reply to pencilled in:

I had a DPF bypassed on a Golf Mk5. The technology was completely unworkable and even with regular motorway runs it would fail to clear. Started off with regular trips to the garage after which I bought a code reader/clearer and ran the cleaning cycle manually every couple of months. Total pain in the ass.

It's all right people going on about illegality and fines but when the basic engineering fails you are left stuck with no option. Especially when the cost of a new DPF is so much and second hand is not a sensible option.

In reply to ogreville:

To be honest, diesels are dead. I would cut your losses and by a petrol, EV or hybrid.

Old diesels are terrible when it comes to air quality, and to combat this, newish diesels are so complicated they inevitably break, and break in an expensive way.

Add to that that diesel is 15p or 20p per litre more expensive they make even less sense.

It won't be long before you can't drive that diesel into any city (towns before you know it) without paying an additional charge.

Has he actually stripped and cleaned the EGR? Or is he just wanted to bypass it as the easy long term fix? If it looks clean then it may be the position sensor. Sounds odd to me that he can't figure out how to fix it.

I would be wary of bypassing, not only for the above reasons, but also liability if you plan on selling it.

In reply to ogreville:

Hi,

New to this thread so sorry if this has been covered.  

You can buy a fault code reader for about £20 and clear any errors yourself. At least this way you're not doing anything permanent to the engine if you did want to 'beat' the MOT.  This might help you kick the can down the road while you figure out what to do next.

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/streetwize-obdii-fault-code-reader-553997350...

I used to do this myself on an old SAAB so I could see what the 'engine warning light' was actually about before going to the garage and spending ££ (it was usually something glow-plug related that was a known issue and nothing to worry about according to SAAB forums).

Good luck and commiserations.  My granddad used to say if he had enough money he'd buy all his enemies a second hand car...

Thanks,

David

In reply to artif:

It'll be this.

Been there. Get rid. 

In reply to birdie num num:

The old ladies or the Micra?

In reply to montyjohn:

I got rid of my last car (Mazda 6 estate) for this very reason. It was otherwise a great car but the DPF just wouldn't auto-regenerate,  cost me several hundred pounds a few times my mechanic had to do it 'manually'. I ended up selling it and went back to a petrol Passat estate which has been really good so far. I'd had a couple of diesel Passats (before the Mazda) which had the pre-DPF TDi engine so were very dirty but didn't have any problems as such. I miss the better fuel consumption and torque of the diesels but the petrol Passat has been decent and reliable so far.