UKC

A very interesting analysis of last week’s craziness at the Capitol: 

https://www.city-journal.org/the-role-playing-coup

” It was not a coup in the real world, but it was experienced as one by those taking part. More interestingly, those shocked by the events in the Senate were no less captured by the fantasy and might still believe that a real coup was attempted and defeated. In Washington, you can apparently now have the full “coup” experience in just a few hours.”

In reply to Bob Kemp:

A real coup in the US would have a damn sight more guns involved. The chances of preventing a full takeover and occupation of the building if there was a serious attempt would be nil.

In reply to Bob Kemp:  I think it's quite a poor article in all honesty.  It isn't, nor does it really pretend to be, a serious analysis  - there are some good points, his description of Trump as one of 'freedom' rather than authoritarian, but much of his analysis is rather ethereal opinion.

Still thanks for linking and I'm glad I read it.

** Later edit - it was certainly a coup and certainly a terrorist event by any definition.  Luckily they didn't lynch anyone, particularly Mike Pence

In reply to TomD89:

A serious attempt by whom, the faction with the helicopter gunships or with the pipe-bombs and rifles?

jk

In reply to wbo2:

I’d be interested to know why you think this- maybe you were expecting a more academic study? It’s a bit early for that. 

It’s early days, so some of the arguments are undeveloped but there are some thoughtful and interesting ideas there. 

Thanks!

In reply to Bob Kemp:

https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2021/01/08/what-happened/

Good read.

In reply to Shaun mcmurrough:

Thanks Shaun. He could be right- a lot of Trump’s  strategies seem to be based on capitalising on chaos. 

In reply to Bob Kemp:

Who decides if it’s a coup? Surely if the participants turned up hoping to put their guy back in charge against the democratic vote it’s a coup?

Dick Def:

“A sudden, violent and illegal seizure of power from a government”

In reply to Bob Kemp:

What had been interesting was Trumps increasingly outlandish and desperate attempts to prevent the Electoral College results being certified. Initially it seemed like he was just trying to rail against the result in a great big petulant huff but as time ticked on it was clear he was serious. One wonders what was next if this rally hadn’t ended up the way it did? Perhaps there is still more to come as “the mob” has been unleashed and has seen some success(in their eyes at least). 
Both are interesting articles and provide some different views to chew over. 

In reply to Bob Kemp:

Somebody thought it was a good idea to discuss martial law with Trump.

CEO Michael Lindell shows off his notes before going into the West Wing at the White House on Friday, Jan 15, 2021 in Washington, DC.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jabinbotsford/status/1350186100564905985

In reply to Darron:

Technically you could say it’s a ‘failed self-coup’, as in this piece:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/01/08/no-its-not-a-cou...

In reply to elsewhere:

I saw that- I couldn’t understand what a bloke who flogs pillows was doing at the White House. Perhaps Giuliani’s ‘trial by combat’ is going to be a humungous pillow-fight in Senate?

In reply to SFM:

Yes, are we confident the coup is over? The Capitol Building is now full of national guardsmen. I'd be very surprised if over half of them aren't trumpers. 

The disconnect from the seriousness of actions is I believe a modern phenomenon resulting from our living much of our lives in virtual realities. I wonder if the majority of QAnon t shirt wearers really, truly believe all the loony conspiracies. I think a lot of people on the continuum from flat earth to "you can't trust any politician" believe it doesn't really matter.

We have, in the post Great Depression, post WWII West, grown utterly used to being OK. We watch an endless succession of post-apocalyptic fantasies without understanding that it really could happen.

The attack on the Capitol could be the start of the downfall of the West, but we've already gone back to hand wringing about the number of carrots in a free school meal box. 

In reply to Bob Kemp: What I didn't like is that the author is taking the 'facts', as  they are, and then forcing them into his own set of beliefs.  If I  am reading this correctly he implies in paragraph 4 for example is that this isn't a real an serious coup, but a show put on for appearances sake.  The implication of that is that those taking part knew it isn't 'real' , but my belief there is that he is incorrect, and those taking part were deadly serious.

In paragrpah 6,7 I think he is incorrect - Trump would dearly love to be an autocratic ruler, wave his arms around to make all the problems disappear (out of sight) and reflect in adulation of his munificence, Yes, I agree he has a dream life, and the only thing he is interested in his himself, and how he wants the world to see him.  I think Trump is commonly overanalysed - he is basically a glorified 'loadsamoney' .

In reply to wbo2:

He’s not trying to say there aren’t real and serious consequences but focussing on the unreal aspects. This was not an attempted coup like any other, and it very clearly had a role-playing aspect for some of the participants. 

It seems from one of the other pieces posted in the thread that there were different elements there. The people who invaded the Capitol and kept to the velvet guide ropes were very different from those with the arrest ties. The former, who seemed bemused to be there, were not serious; they were tourists sharing in an ‘experience’. 

Trump’s success in getting to be and stay President is remarkable, and it’s not enough to say he’s just a glorified loadsamoney although I agree he is also an accomplished grifter. I’d suggest more analysis and understanding is needed. 

In reply to wbo2:

Trump is obviously not a democrat.  That is unlike every other Republican president I'm aware of as when necessary they accepted electoral defeat.

The sinister part is that he has so much support (a third of the electorate, 70% of republican voters) and a third of republicans in the Capitol who are reluctant to accept electoral defeat and prefer to accept conspiracies that the US cannot run an election.

I think a third of republicans in senate and congress voted not to accept electoral college result. Does that mean that third prefer conspiracies rejected by courts and state governments (including Republican appointed judges and Republican state governments)? Does that mean they would reject a Biden victory if they had the senate/congress majorities to do so? That's a sinister thought.

In reply to Bob Kemp:

I did have a little laugh at those 'keeping to the velvet guide rope'...given what they had just done.

In reply to elsewhere and Bob: There's a couple of parallel strands here , in my opinion.  The first is that there's always a fairly large % of the population , inc the UK, that believe at the end of the day that democracy is a luxury, and that if the trains run on time , that's more important,  

Cooking, so need to concentrate on that .  

I agree that that is a sinister thought, and how many really mean it? Unpleasant people.  Ted Cruz is heading for the lower dregs of morality - we will say anything if he thinks it gets him a bit more power.  Remember the 'Lying Ted' bit - Trump was right there!.  That's in the past now for Ted...