UKC

Gave us this woman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Johnson

Hard to reconcile, isn't it?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Not so much when you compare how they were treated at the peak of their careers and how well known and powerful they were, given opposite intellects and modesty, she being regarded as a genius and the orange one insisting on TV and Twitter that he is.

The film drama based on her and her colleagues at NASA gets that rare combination.... critical and audience acclaim.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hidden_figures

In reply to Offwidth:

I watched it for the first time last week and I thought it was excellent - I keep wondering what was true and what was made up for Hollywood so I need to read her story too I think.  I'd been looking forward to seeing it since missing it at the cinema and it didn't disappoint.

In reply to wercat:

Most of it is true, if a little dramatised.  For example having to walk half an hour across the campuses to get to a black ladies toilet is true.  The manger personally removing the toilet sign is dramatic licence. 

I am reading the book that inspired the film at the moment.  Loved the film.  

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Especially that she got the medal of honor and so did Rush Limbaugh..

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

TBF I don't think our own country has all that much to be proud of. We have an equally vain and mendacious leader in Johnson, and although we never had the official segregation policy that the US had, we certainly had overt racial discrimination in the same era.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

We managed to produce William Wiberforce and Ian Brady. off the top of my head.

In reply to marsbar:

> Loved the film.  

I couldn’t help noticing that the film didn’t really put any “bad guys” on screen. Kevin Costner as the right-on white hero. Kirsten Dunst initially slightly reticent but never racist, and quickly becoming a heroine supporter. I found it really noticeable that racism was a sort of invisible anonymous authority thing , and felt it weakened the film. I am sure the book will be more open and name some names, enjoy. I gave the film 6.5/10, I was disappointed with it to be honest, but it was OK 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Don’t be so facile.

The same country that gave us (and oppressed) Alan Turing , gave us Ian Brady, Fred West, Michael Ryan, James Bulger’s killers etc. There is nothing to reconcile. 

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I don't agree. We're not comparing historical figures; we're talking about a country that can elect a wicked and pathetic ignoramus as president, yet at the same time can be called home by the likes of this woman, who seems to have spent her life over achieving and conducting herself with transcendental grace and courage.  I don't get it.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

In what sense are Straggler's examples "historical"?

Turing was a contemporary of the lady in question and the others are a good deal younger.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

From what I've read so far it seems that NASA was a bit of a respite from actual bad in your face racism and that although it was segregated it was generally a good place for black people to work at that point in time.  It was the environmental racism that came across because that was how it was.  Segregated bathrooms and lunch tables, rather than people being nasty.  However I'm not that far into the book.  

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I don't get what you're driving at Rob. You could apply that to pretty much any country in the world. It's not something uniquely 'American'.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

At best I hope you are being deliberately obtuse and difficult , to make some vague point.

Lots of countries have voted in leaders who are in our eyes “questionable or dubious” and simultaneously yielded brilliant scientists and artists etc. USA under Trump is not unique. I put it to you again, politely, that you are being facile. 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Not really.  Potential has nothing to do with race or nationality, and for all its flaws the USA provides access to high quality education, unless you’re born to fanatical home educators anyhow...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

All that said , I apologise for what I now I see as an unfinished post from me, it looks like I wrote it then edited it badly. Clearly I meant “We are in a country that gave us...”

Thanks for your patience in not attacking such sloppiness on my part 

In reply to marsbar:

Thank you. I hope my little take-down of the film did not spoil your memories of having enjoyed it more than I had. 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Three words

Jocelyn Bell Burnell 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I don't see the slightest difference in this respect between the US and UK. We've had many fine people, but have now voted in delusional charlatans.

In reply to Ridge:

I suppose what I'm driving at is the way the US is reported and commented on - not least on here - is often all about Trump, shootings, shock jocks, GOP insanity. As Michael Moores did a few years ago, it's worth pointing out there are other sides.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

As a dual citizen of the US and UK (born and raised there, living here for the last 5 years) I can tell you that it's very popular here to focus on every bad thing America has ever done, and every negative facet of it's culture. It's certainly gotten worse since Trump was elected (one of the many reasons I hate him) but America bashing seems to be a recreational thing now. 

In reply to Luke_92:

It always has been (well, not always, historically speaking, but you know what I mean). Not much fun for you, but generally it's not meant too seriously. Maybe the US's traditional reputation as a land of freedom and plenty has diminished somewhat, but I reckon that even as people despair at Trump (or GWB, or Nixon...), or military adventures in Afghanistan (or Iraq, or Vietnam...), they still have a concept of America in their minds as being a generally swell place, just because it has been so culturally and politically dominant in the world for so long 

In reply to Luke_92:

I live part of the time in the US and the UK, and I agree with you. There is much that is still good about the US that does not get much reported in the UK.

Trumpism and Brexitism are similar phenomena, but the US is a much more resilient place than the UK, so Trump is having much less negative day-to-day effect on life in the US, compared to the day-to-day effects of Brexit in the UK. For example, there is no parallel in the US to the disinvestment in the UK as a result of Brexit.