UKC

/ Trump, Brexit, Johnson, The S*n and Skullduggery

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MonkeyPuzzle - on 13 Jul 2018

So whilst Trump was meeting Theresa May this morning to discuss, amongst other things, a post-Brexit trade deal, copies of an interview Trump had conducted with The S*n were hitting shelves and newsstands across the country. In said interview, Trump basically guns down May's Brexit white paper, stokes the fires of populism (gasp) by saying "the people" (them again) are being denied what they voted for, and says that Boris Johnson would make a good Prime Minister. Is there a precedent for a visiting POTUS to be told to get back on his plane and f*ck off? I doubt we'll see it with Maybot in charge, but we're all being treated like dicks here and someone needs to point that out clearly at some point.

This is what we're all hanging our post-Brexit hats on? Really?

2
cander - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Unfortunately Obama set the precedent with his “back of the queue” comment. Whilst his comments were challenged at the time they were as meddlesome as Trumps comments now - better for all concerned if US politicians mind their own business when it comes to U.K. domestic policy.

Post edited at 12:32
Tyler - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

It's astonishing that people view his comments as harmful to the white paper. We know Trump is America First so of course he is going to be attacking the position which is less advantageous to the USA (as he sees it). 

MonkeyPuzzle - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Tyler:

I'm not surprised that he's against the white paper. I'm saying that to publicly shit on the PM of the country to which you're currently on an official visit, who will be your host, is absolutely not acceptable and should, just as publicly, be officially condemned. To pretty much suggest an alternative PM at the same time should have jaws on the floor, even from this prick.

GarethSL on 13 Jul 2018
cander - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Sometimes telling the truth is a good thing. TM should go she’s hopeless, the white paper doesn’t seem to going down particularly well with Brexit supporters - so your appalled that Trump has said what seems to be obvious.

We know he has no soft skills, we know he’s insulting and abusive, we know he is a complete narcissist - why are you surprised by his comments in the slightest bit I’m not. I’m actually surprised he didn’t try and grab TMs arse at the photo shoot - he’s either behaving himself or saving it up for when he meets the queen.

2
Bob Hughes - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

I think the difference - from a diplomatic perspective - is that Cameron asked Obama to say that. In general, though, I agree with your broader point that it was probably unwise to have set the precedent.  

MonkeyPuzzle - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

> Sometimes telling the truth is a good thing. TM should go she’s hopeless, the white paper doesn’t seem to going down particularly well with Brexit supporters - so your appalled that Trump has said what seems to be obvious.

I don't care about people attacking Theresa May. I care about people attacking diplomacy and the basis of good international relations that has held firm since the second world war.

> We know he has no soft skills, we know he’s insulting and abusive, we know he is a complete narcissist - why are you surprised by his comments in the slightest bit I’m not. I’m actually surprised he didn’t try and grab TMs arse at the photo shoot - he’s either behaving himself or saving it up for when he meets the queen.

Shocked doesn't always mean surprised. If we accept this as the new normal then the world just got permanently a bit shitter.

 

tom_in_edinburgh - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Actually, I think Trump's comments were helpful because they put the soft/hard Brexit debate in context.  The choice is between depending on a relationship with a group of 27 countries, which is of course going to be slow moving and bureaucratic because of its size and need for consensus but is able to make long-term consistent policies in a reasonably fair and transparent manner and a relationship with a single extremely powerful country which, when from time to time it elects a complete moron, is likely to act capriciously and without reference to long established norms.   

When it comes to trade relationships which influence 20 year multi-billion dollar business decisions then stability and consistency is paramount and the EU is doing a better job of being a reliable partner than the US.   It is also a larger market.  Trump is actually accelerating the decline of the US and the progress of the EU and China with his tariffs.   The time for his policy was about 20 years ago: he's too late to make America First stick.   If he pushes too far the world will reorganise itself to depend less on the US.

thomasadixon - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Hughes:

It's still interference in British politics and diplomatically a bad move (same as those over here who attacked Trump before he won).  I'd say the president should neither endorse nor attack the sitting government but I don't recall Obama being told off by those who are now attacking Trump - people cited his comments as a reason to vote remain.

Backfired though I think, and I don't see Trump's comments doing any better.

deepsoup - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> This is what we're all hanging our post-Brexit hats on? Really?

Seemingly so.  However distasteful we find it and, given how unpredictable he is, however futile it might turn out to be, apparently we now have no choice but to suck up to Trump.  On account of how we have, y'know, "taken back control".

1
Stuart en Écosse - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

> Sometimes telling the truth is a good thing. TM should go she’s hopeless, the white paper doesn’t seem to going down particularly well with Brexit supporters - so your appalled that Trump has said what seems to be obvious.

Unfortunately for the Brexit supporters, us Remainians are still here and we also have a point of view. I'm significantly less unenamoured with May than I was a week ago.

> We know he has no soft skills, we know he’s insulting and abusive, we know he is a complete narcissist - why are you surprised by his comments in the slightest bit I’m not. 

You conflate surprise with outrage. He has certainly worked his magic on you if you find this behaviour acceptable just because that's what he does. I suspect a lot of the tactless bluster directed at May (and Merkel) is because she's a woman. May should respond robustly up to and including sending him f*cking packing, and let it be known that America's casual assumption of regime change for any country that doesn't suit their preferences isn't going to wash. Syria, Iran, North Korea and now the UK. The USA needs to be stood up to and told to wind its neck in.

 

Post edited at 14:16
MonkeyPuzzle - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Everything you've said there is true, but as a point of principle and national self-respect, we should surely have a diplomatic response - it would only need to be a statement - to old Wotsit-features basically pissing in the bread bowl at our dinner table.

To address your second paragraph, I totally agree. He's so used to making money by refusing to pay people who have done work for him and simply getting someone else in to do the next job, it appears that he thinks international politics works like that as well. He doesn't seem to understand that the nations the US does business with now will need to be the nations the US still does business with in years to come. Attempting to shaft Mexico and Canada says that he either doesn't own a map, or doesn't think further than the deal in front of him at any one time.

Bob Kemp - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Apparently he's now said the interview was 'fake news', because it didn't include his positive remarks about May:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jul/13/trump-trashes-mays-brexit-plans-and-hails-boris-johnson-as-future-pm-live

His usual modus operandum: go in like a bull in a china shop, then back-track. 

Stuart en Écosse - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Interesting few posts on here that raise Obama saying that UK would be at "the back of the queue," for the purposes of discrediting anyone who complains about Trumps' talk of regime change in the UK. Two things: 1. Obama hasn't been president for quite a while. 2. Isn't a little odd that you are less exercised by a foreign president telling our government what to do than you are by people who voice criticism of same?

Stuart en Écosse - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> Apparently he's now said the interview was 'fake news', because it didn't include his positive remarks about May:

He's playing with fire if he's taking on The Sun. 

Bob Kemp - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Stuart en Écosse:

I'm sure it's all done with Rupert's approval...

cander - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Stuart en Écosse:

I’m not in the least bit outraged, a politician playing politics ... that’s what they do. He’s not nice to Merkel and May - they’re grown ups and they’re their countries leaders - if they can’t manage Trump they should find new jobs. 

2
wbo - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Stuart en Écosse:the Obama argument is the same one as wheeling out Gordon Brown arguments , or Jeremy Corbyn. When you have no argument find yourself a bogeyman

 

Stuart en Écosse - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

I didn't say you were outraged, it is obvious that you aren't.

jkarran - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Bob Kemp:

> Apparently he's now said the interview was 'fake news', because it didn't include his positive remarks about May:

Of course. Blather out a number of attention grabbing messages, contradictory or not doesn't matter, dangerous or not doesn't matter, embarrassingly badly written bordering on insane-rambling will do... wait see which one works best for ratings, shamelessly back that one for a bit as if the other statements happened in alternate realities, throw anyone necessary under the bus to deflect attention caused by failed messages... refine the messaging and repeat until the words of the President of the United States have no meaning whatsoever, the noise just signifies more chaos coming. I imagine in all that noise and heat there is plenty of scope for some market manipulation to keep the donors sweet.

jk

lummox - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to jkarran:

...and his handler in the Kremlin, natch.

Bob Kemp - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to jkarran:

He’s been following the methods used in his reality TV production.

Bellie on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to cander:

Thing is, he didnt speak the truth. He mixed things up like he usually does. Saying the British voted for a particular deal, and the deal now being touted is not the deal we voted for. And i thought he had one of the best memories in the world... But cant recall the actual yes no question we were asked. Not good, but par for the course for the pot stirrers.

 

NathanP - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

My theory is that Trump and May really do have a good relationship and May asked Trump to criticise her and endorse Boris Johnson because she knew that would give her a popularity boost and kill Boris' leadership hopes for ever. 

The only worst effects of an endorsement of a UK politician that I can imagine is if Putin stood up and said he counted X as a personal friend and that every Rouble spent buying their loyalty had been well spent.


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