UKC

Scores on the doors

I voted Lib Dem at 7am this morning

I very reluctantly voted Labour at 7.10

I live in one of the few Lib Dem strongholds, basically they have a 10,000 majority over the Conservatives, then daylight, then Lord Buckethead's cousin, some moss, then Labour

I'm in a Lab/Con marginal.

I believe Lord Buckethead's intergalatic advice was to vote tactically this time.

SNP

No Tories in Scotland - and potentially less than 5 Labour MPs in Scotland as well!

So it looks like a Lib/Lab/SNP hung parliament then. 

Lib Dem via proxy 

Voted Tory at 9:10

With enthusiasm?

Lib Dem by post

Labour, with some emotion

I voted SNP about a week and a half ago (by post).

We're a Tory/SNP marginal, so fingers crossed. The forecast is poor for the evening, which might adversely affect turnout; good turnout is going to be key for us.

Lib Dem/ Con marginal.

Voted Lib Dam 7.30

SNP, postal vote so sent it on Monday

I have voted. That now gives me the right to indulge in praise/complaints for who-ever is in power. Those who don't vote have removed their right to praise/complain as they couldn't make the effort when they had a chance. 

P.S. This was a vote for the least bad of the choices. 

Labour, with reluctance, in  a lab/con marginal (500 votes) in a strongly leave area. 

Normally would be libdem but they have been almost literally invisible in the campaign, and stand no chance whatever. Incumbent labour is ok, but very traditional and not so dynamic, but at least she voted against Corbyn in the leadership contest. Brexit party candidate was the best of the lot (but for the joint worst party), and he probably annoyed Farage and Johnson whenever he appeared on TV (lucid, honest answers). The tory, who i suspect will win, is a bright young thing who used to do the PR for Cuadrilla amongst others, is completely on message Tory wise (i.e. not especially honest), and has campaigned to the already converted. 

Lib Dem by post

In a swing seat with Tories expected to win from a Labour MP.

I refuse to vote tactically for either Labour or the Tories.

I've not voted as I've been out of the UK > 15 years while benefitting from the EU's Freedom of Movement so although I'm one of those with the most to loose with Brexit, I have no vote

Lab/con marginal seat.

Voted Labour at 7.30 but would have voted lib dem if they had a candidate in my constituency.

Tactical vote for Lib Dems. Labour has zero chance here.

Still undecided between Green and Labour. Ruth George (2000ish majority) was impressive handling the Whaley Bridge dam incident so I think she's earned her vote, but I also like the Green chap.

Lib Dem

In reply to Ecce Homer:

What a strange format to get 3 year old news from. I don’t think I’ve ever known of someone to access their info from Pinterest. 
 

Just out of curiosity... are you over 60?

Lib dem by post. Although irrelevant. Rishi Sunak has a 40,000+ majority. 

Lib Dem too. 

Looks like a Lib Dem landslide on UKC, so Jo Swinson should start measuring for curtains. 

I haven't voted yet but I will this evening. In my case it's easy, following my dictum of voting for the Remain candidate most likely to win, as the local Labour candidate is  fervent Remainer and resigned from the Front Bench in the face of Corbyn's indecisiveness.

Definitely curtains for Jo Swinson

Ba-da-boom-tish

Lib dem. Last minute tactical decision in the booth, based on a hunch that the one in a million chance of getting the Tory out will be Tory remainers switching, and they aren't going to be voting Labour.

Conservative box ticked at 7.10. Not without some soul searching though. I voted remain in the referendum but truth be told I'm heartily sick of politics in this country and just want Brexit done and dusted so we can move on . Hopefully a healthy Tory majority will let us do that.

Labour, with a pencil ...... sorry!
Manchester Withington, just to prevent the slim chance LibDem might regain it.
The Cons, vanishingly small chance of winning, so, bit a useless vote really.

A scottish constituency with a tory MP so I've lent Nicola my vote. But I want it back again if she goes all Indyref on us!

Out of interest, how soon do you think brexit will be "done and dusted"?

Not voted yet, tory constituency with 10,000 majority (Forest of Dean).

No LibDem candidate, no Brexit candidate.

I'll be voting Labour with no doubt in my mind. Though it would take a minor miracle for them to win here.

'...just want Brexit done and dusted so we can move on . Hopefully a healthy Tory majority will let us do that.'

I'm afraid to say you are going to be profoundly disappointed.

Shouty won't need a microphone for any speeches. 

Also voted LD in a Tory / LD marginal. Unfortunately the country as a whole does not follow UKC's lead. Realistic best hope - hung parliament. Realistic worst case scenario - Bozo gets a majority and we (the 99% of the UK electorate) get our rings reamed by the Tory brexit todger, lubeless.

Tactically for Labour in a Con/Lab marginal in the hope that Boris does not receive a majority. Like many I don't like Corbyn and distrust those that think the sun shines out of his arse, or indeed anyone who idolises any politician, smacks of lack of critical thinking skills for me.

My strong worry is about rewarding someone who is power hungry and lacking in morals with more power, even if I was a Conservative voter or wanted a no deal Brexit (I don't) I (hope I) still wouldn't vote for him as I think it is very dangerous to hold your nose and vote for someone who is morally bankrupt just to get what you want short term. The "get Brexit done" thing is that whole game played out before our eyes and yet I feel large swathes of the population have fallen for it, it is only about a power grab, bugger all to do with Brexit other than a vehicle for disfunctional egos (for clarity I am talking about Boris and Cummings not those that voted leave). That power will surely corrupt him and our system even more.

Whether or not I agree with Corbyn on anything, I don't believe him to be morally bankrupt nor corrupted by power, unlike Momentum but hey it's complicated! Our democratic system is more important than any one of these politicians.

A lot quicker than if that idiot Corbyn and his mates were in charge.

'... just want Brexit done and dusted so we can move on.'

I don't think any metaphor could be less appropriate for Brexit than 'done and dusted'. This is a 'clean-up' operation that will take years, more like Chernobyl. There will be very little forward movement for a long time, and much backward.

I might end up disappointed, who knows,  but the country would be devastated if Corbyn and his momentum supporters took control. The Conservatives are the lesser of 2 evils.

I'd recommend watching last night's Newsnight for the debate with political advisors/journalists/experts about "getting Brexit done" in order to set your expectations about how likely that is. AKA not at all likely/impossible.

I haven't voted yet, will be doing so at about 5 this evening.

I'm in what was probably considered a safe Labour seat, but they had a bit of a scare from UKIP in a 2014 by-election. That was very tactical from the Tories though and they are considered the biggest threat. Tuesday's YouGov poll suggests that it will stay Labour, but my wife went to pick up her daughter from University last night, so that she can vote today.

As you can probably guess, I will be voting Labour, the rest of the household tell me that they will be doing the same.

Really, I don't think even with a labour win they'd have the MP's to get the policies through they'd want. Like the Tories now.

I think Brexit will be around for decades. Look at UKIP, just because the country goes one way does not end the debate and politics. And it shouldn't.

You have to factor in capability as well as intent. They’re pretty (vanishingly) unlikely to get ‘control’ as such, and frankly even if they did the same thing that makes them inept at winning a slam dunk election makes them unlikely to be able to turn society on its head in the way they would ideally like.

In contrast the Tories have more mundane and predictable goals but a much higher likelihood of following through on them. In the real world they’re more dangerous at present. 

edit: This doesn’t mean I think the tories can  ‘follow through’ on Brexit (other than in the sense of shitting their pants), but I think they can cause massive damage while following through on the plan they’ve laid out for attempting to. 

The two in my household voted Green by postal votes. We're in an SNP Glasgow area and expect them to hold it. I don't mind that: better than either Labour or Tory. My Westminster vote rarely makes a difference but I do it all the same. 

This current bunch of Tories are the great of any number of evils you care to mention.

I rather liked Peter Oborne's assessment. A conservative on what has become of the Conservatives:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/11/boris-johnson-destroy...

labour with the hope Corby can make some reforms to this rotten system

What a load of sentimental old tosh!! 

Not quite sure why my opening post earned a 'dislike', there are some precious folk around here it would seem.

You must be a fast reader!

Only 23,000 actually, but he is probably safe.

A vote that will I hope increase the already unassailable majority of my staunchly remain-voting Labour MP.

A damp-looking Conservative candidate just knocked on my door!  

Still undecided, Green or Labour. Pretty safe Labour seat.

Predicting 80 seat Con majority.

jk

The current UKC exit poll is Labour 40.6%, Lib Dems 34.4%, SNP 12.5%, Tories and Greens both on 6.25%.

Possibly better than a 10 seat majority.  Johnson, having no moral or political anchor, may judge it better to go for a softer brexit to to maintain his personal power.  With a decent majority he could ignore the head-bangers  more easily.  I'm being optimistic today.

Surely the quickest way to deal with Brexit, is to knock it on the head, it's done as soon as we do that.

Thinking it's going to be over by the end of January, you might as well ask Santa to sort it out.

There's years and years of bullshit to wade through, in trade deals and negotiations, before it's over, that is if we end up leaving.

Just want Brexit done!!! F Me!

Labour here in High Peak

Please don't make a mistake.

My fear that the head bangers are mostly what he has got left after ripping the soul out of the party.

She's a good local MP. The green guy is good, but the race is too tight to call in HP so Ruth needs every vote she can get. The Tory guy is a nasty piece of work from the husting I went to and his trail of twitter posts.

Tick the box with PEN not Pencil...

Walked into Holmfirth to vote this morning. Voted Labour, I'm a member. Stocked up on drink and munches, I'll be up late.

i'll be voting Labour tonight as will my daughter with me and the other by proxy.  Its a relatively safe Labour seat,  but could let in Cons if not careful.

Whilst I can't see a situation where Boris isn't PM,  the aim has to be to minimise his majority as much as possible

Voting green, and binge watching the new series of the Marvellous Mrs Maisel on Netflix as it’ll likely be on the banned list if JC wins a majority.

Not yet but will be voting Lib Dem. I'm in a safe Tory seat with both Labour and Lib Dems arguing that they are the tactical non- Tory vote, so no hope here really. 

N Cardiff? 

Lib Dem here in Tory / LD marginal - hoping to get Tessa back in to replace doormat / yes man James Heappey.

Voted Labour in Bristol Kingswood. Best chance of unseating the Tory MP. Appalled at Swinson's line that Corbyn and Johnson are equally awful - Johnson is worse by a mile. Lib Dems and Greens are likely to be what lets the Tory win in my seat.

I can genuinely say that I have never felt sick with worry about the outcome of a UK election to anything like this degree. We are heading for an extreme right wing government that will make the climate emerency, racism, xenophobia and inequality all worse; will operate by blatant lying and then doubling down on those poisonous lies; and will do serious harm to the economy in its willingness to have a reckless no deal Brexit. A vote for this Tory party under the vile Johnson is a tragic thing for those who have been conned and is a shameful thing who know what he is about.

'Stocked up on drink and munches, I'll be up late.' I think a bottle of scotch and revolver should be enough.

You have to vote Ruth. Sadly stopping Tories has to take priority for now and greens have no chance. Good friends of mine have stood as local green candidates recently and they are all completely behind tactical voting today.

It's very far from ideal. Fwiw I'll vote for her when I get home tonight but if we had a sensible system i'd probably vote green

SNP at 7:55 this morning in a very marginal SNP/ Tory seat. Got to get the bastards out.

In reply to Ecce Homer:

Can you point me at the humour in anything you’ve posted? It must have been so subtle as it’s passed me by. 

point remains valid... a social media create for mood boarding your dining room is an odd place for political postings. Seems an odd place to trust.

58?

Voted for an Independent. He just seemed like a normal sensible bloke not bogged down by big party dogma. Obviously, he stands no chance but I'm happy to have voted positively.

 Voted Tory at 12:50

Ironic technical failure there for comedic effect or....

Have just voted Labour (usually Lib Dem) without enthusiasm, purely tactically, as I see the damage of Brexit to the economy as potentially far greater than anything Labour might do. It's a safe Tory seat (10,500) but my thinking is as follows: if her majority is greatly reduced she'll be much more vulnerable next time, particularly if Brexit is as much of a disaster as I fear. Also, if Labour does badly (i.e. fails even to lead to a hung parliament) then surely that is the end of Corbyn ... he's quite old anyway. It's just conceivable that he could get replaced by the likes of Keir Starmer, who would almost certainly beat BoJo in another election.

Sadly, many/most people in my constituency don't realise just what an extremist my MP, Pauline Latham, is. One reason why I dislike her so much is that she's fundamentally dishonest: she pretends to be a fluffy, middle-of-the-road, small-c conservative, when she's actually a member of the secretive ERG - which isn't mentioned anywhere on her very detailed website. (If you don't believe just how extreme the members of the ERG are, take a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Research_Group.)

Voted labour as did  my partner my mother my father my brother my sister and their partners and my eldest daughter who is currently training to be a teacher at the age of 23 with a mountain of student debt and holding down a full time job in a restaurant.

Do you think the conservatives will start grant systems up for the less privileged.

I f...cking doubt it horrible set of .......s!

You voted twice? I'm sure you voted Tory earlier this morning.

Voted Tory at 13:31

Yes, he told us he voted Tory at 9:10. If so, he's committed a serious criminal offence.

Ah, he's now telling us he's voted a third time, with a . I suppose this is his idea of his self-proclaimed 'sense of humour'.

I’m 8 hours behind in California so at least I don’t have to do that.

Did you forget to switch sock puppets?

Hmm... I wonder what is more likely?

Do you really think that if I had the wit and the balls to be able to vote twice I’d be advertising on here!

What a moron!

What was your point in telling us you voted twice, then? I think that's pretty moronic.

Labour for me. Our local MP is Karen Bradley who became Minister for Northern Ireland and didn’t know where it was. She also didn’t challenge major potential redundancies in the NHS locally.

Lib Dem at 720

Just voted Labour in a strong Tory seat (there's never been anyone in it but a Tory).

Was undecided between Labour and Green but since the popular sitting MP decided he'd had enough of the Tory party and wants to be mayor of London instead then I thought that might cause enough chaos that Labour had a chance although it seems incredibly unlikely.

Lab, tactically about a week ago.

We have a conservative candidate who is currently divorcing the previous conservative (outgoing MP) for the area. So she knows what a Tory b***ard is but decided to be one.

To look big in front of internet strangers? Same reason he keeps calling people names. 

Voted Labour 11:30

after consulting the UKC, my disabled mate and my conscience.

Only one way to go in Scotland. SNP. Out with the Tories and in with democracy.

Hi Wanderer100: I wouldn't normally be this direct, but do you really mean this?

If yes, try engaging your brain

Labour by postal proxy a couple of weeks ago.  Con / Labour marginal with a 3000 majority to the Cons.  I'm no Corbyn fan, it's a judgement on who will f*ck the country up least:  The lying, policy free Conservative offering, with a sinister undercurrent attacking the rule of law leaves me cold.

Lib dem for the first time in my life. Libcon marginal

Voted SNP here (In a Tory held seat). Will be tough as he's got a decent majority, but i hope we get rid as hes been worse than useless for standing up for his constituency and Scotland.

Update on the numbers:

Labour - 54.1%

Lib Dems - 26.2%

SNP - 9.8%

Green - 4.9%

Conservatives - 3.3%

Independant - 1.6%

Jeremy, Jo and Nicola will be pleased. Boris less so

voted green in a constituency with a huge tory majority

There'll be a parallel universe where that will be the result.
Someone please transport me there.

It's the parallel universe where they got rid of Corbyn 6 months ago.

I always like to listen to that classic Beatles album on election nights, takes me back to the halcyon days when Harold Wilson had a 98 seat majority

Well, there's some pretty exciting stuff going on now on Twitter. Literally hundreds of people who have always voted Tory or Lib Dem saying they have voted tactically for Labour for the first time - to get rid of Bojo. Admittedly of the 4200 people I follow about 4000 are Remainers, so I might be getting a very distorted picture. Even so.... Also, there's being reported a very high turn out, particularly in London, with queues at polling stations, and particularly of young people.

The figures aren’t looking quite so good on UK Fox Hunting though

I held my nose and voted Labour.  Great respect for Jeremy Corbyn as an inspiration, but he's not a leader of men, still less the country.  But given the alternative . . .

T.

Voted Green at 8am.

Safe Tory seat of Robert Jenrick in Newark and Sherwood. 4 candidates stood. Tactical voting felt pointless and after Jo Swinson's show on Monday night I had to vote but really it was Hobson's choice.

Very sad.

Postal vote went in two weeks ago.

It's a Lab / Con marginal and I'm having to cancel my dad's vote out ( He's 81, had his prostate cancer cured on the NHS and voted to make his son, daughter in law and grandaughter's life in Europe much much harder)

E

That page is eye opening. The list of subscribers to the group include many people I consider dangerous and reprehensible (and rather stupid). Though strangely David Gauke is listed - presumably he subscribed as a way to 'know the enemy'. A Boris majority will embolden this caucus when it comes to any trade negotiations and regulatory divergence from the EU over the next year(s), leaving a no deal rupture firmly on the table.

Following some further research it turns out my constituency is on the outer limits of ‘marginal’ with Labour against the Tory incumbent.

Subsequently I fought past the nausea and voted for Labour.

On the way home I went in to Tesco and noted a tactical voting poster next to the door. In the time it took me to pick up milk and pay at the self checkout someone had ripped it down and screwed it up. There’s a lot of strong opinions about. 

I reckon 'The lunatics have taken over the asylum' could be more appropriate tonight.

Labour. 

No, North Cardiff is a key marginal; I'm in Cardiff South and Penarth which is as Labour as they come with the doughty remainer Stephen Doughty who defied the Labour whip on occasion on Brexit issues.

You do know that its not going to work out like that, right?

One of 40'000+ to vote Labour in Bristol West today. Flew in from Cork, polling station on the way back from the airport and now snacking on out of date food from the fridge.

Such a large majority ironically makes it feel like a wasted vote even though I voted for the guaranteed winner. At least she has the best name in the commons: Thangam Debbonaire!

Voted Labour in a Lab/Con swing seat

Labour at about 8.30am in a fairly safe Tory seat. There are claims it might be a potential swing seat but the sitting MP got over 50% of the vote last time and I'm doubtful that anyone who voted for him in 2017 will have changed their minds, whereas the non-Tory vote is likely to be split. Hasn't stopped the absolute avalanche of Labour campaigning around here though - I must've had 7/8 Labour leaflets, one visit from the Labour doorknockers and I bumped into one of their very cheerful 'get out the vote' teams on my way out for lunch earlier. I have no idea if that's replicated across the whole constituency or if it's just down to the fact we live in the cheaper, younger and more urban part of the area but 10/10 for effort anyway!

Would have voted LibDem, but opted for Labour instead. The reason:

Cons have a 23.5% majority.

Labour 23.5%

LibDems 7%

Just noticed this on the Guardian's politics blog

"A reminder as per all election days to please not state how you voted today or how you voted via postal vote. Any comments stating how you voted will be removed for legal reasons."

If true, seems UKC & all of us who have posted here have broken the law. Will Allan be locked up ?

Labour in MK South.  It's always been Tory so far (only existed for a short time) but it is worth a go.

I voted for the notorious queer-basher Tim Farron. I had to forgive him for all those times he scrawled "god hates fags" in excrement on my front door, but it's still a lot better than getting a Tory.

did he bribe you with a slice of spicy roast baby?

SNP

Well I went Green in the end, undecided until I got to the booth. Gotta keep some pressure up.

JK

Family tick for Lab-add 3 to your exit poll. Fingers crossed we keep our MP but is going to be close.

The tory candidate tried that. "It's my own grandson" he said, to entice me.

I'm pretty sure that only applies to news media, not social media. My FB timeline would be awash with criminals otherwise!

I'm glad you're cutting him some slack, you can't hold people responsible for everything they write in excrement. I mean, we've all been there, right?

Lib dems a few days ago by post. 

I live in a safe labour seat and normally vote tory but I couldn't even think of voting for the current crop. Plus their candidate for South Leeds lives in Hastings. No wonder Labour have won forever round here.

I also voted leave and I genuinely believe it would be good for the country if our so called leaders had the ability to lead rather than piss away the last few years infighting. On balance I would now rather stay and stop being the laughing stock of the developed world. 

Another loan of 2 votes to Nicola, to keep the Tory out here. We’ll take them back at the next Scottish election, though. 
 

I think.

SNP.

There was a queue to vote, first time I've seen that for a long time.

Nice one. They need to be told that what's happened to the Tory party will not stand with the decent, moderate people that they rely on.

You're allowed to tell people how you, yourself, voted, as long as you aren't doing so from inside the polling station.

You aren't allowed to tell how other people voted (although sharing their own online post is allowed).

So most of us are OK - but those saying, for example, how their family members voted, are technically breaking the law. I don't expect to see many prosecutions, though..!

UKC isn't breaking the law letting us post this, but it probably would be if it collated it into an article and published it before 22:00 this evening.

Labour (Cambridge) for three reasons. 1) Our sitting MP Daniel Zeichner is a decent bloke. 2) I like the direction of travel of the Labour manifesto even if some of it is whacky. And 3) Labour have promised to halt our arms sales to the Saudis who are committing war crimes in Yemen. 

That's the first laugh I've had today.

I suspect it may be my last as well.

The relevant law seems to be the Representation of the People Act 1982, Part 1, Section 66a

Publishing (posting) your own voting intention or decision is legal. Publishing an exit poll is illegal. Aggregating posts in a way that effectively creates a predictive exit poll is arguably illegal but doesn't appear to have been adequately anticipated by the law.

As a national publication with many thouysands of commenters, I guess the Guardian are simply playing safe. I'm not  lawyer but it seems like a stretch to interpret this thread as an election-influencing exit poll.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/06/08/illegal-post-election-vot...

(Sorry for the torygraph link - the simplest summary I could find with limited time)

Rob, I suspect you might be being a bit too gloomy, and that it might not be quite a bad as we'd feared ...

SNP - could be interesting in this seat because it’s been safe Lib Dem for many, many years but SNP candidate is well liked locally.

The odds on a hung parliament have shortened online and there's some interesting stuff going around on Twitter. Queues at polling stations and apparently one uni ran out of ballot papers and had to get a load more in. Been keeping my eye on #YouthQuake and feeling a bit emotional!

I think its unlikely to be done and dusted anytime soon.  

Voted Lib Dem at 7.20 this morning.

Safe labour seat, would have voted labour if tories had any chance here!

Me too.  I couldn't have voted for her even if there weren't any other reasons for not voting Conservative.  Which there are.

Voted Lib Dem in a Tory seat

Labour first thing this morning. My main stumbling block was the strength of Christian name. Boris sounds a strong leader but Jeremy a push over. 

Putin: ve vant your islands

Jeremy: ok.

Same question to Boris

Boris: ????

Voted Labour at around 11am . Canterbury which has a Labour mp since 2017 with a majority of 187.

a friend of mine sent a photo of students queuing in the rain on campus in Canterbury so hopefully she will keep her seat. 

Not a huge fan of Corbyn, but....

I did a vote. 

Not telling you who for though. 

I voted Labour despite my major misgivings over Corbyn. The current MP is the arch brexiteer Philip Davies who had a 5,000 majority. This could be overturned, keep an eye out for this one, there has been a big campaign to unseat him. 

Green. For the bairns like.

It's a landslide. 

we are fooked

break out the ammo

we can only hope to take some with us

More importantly Corbyns fooked!!

I think the campaigning has been as the 1940 situation we had with the referendum.  All but the Cummings faction fighting with tactics of the last war

Metaphorically our troops should have adopted commando methods in terms of disruption and ruthlessness

The clown/greased piglet was the most visible but not the weapon

To try to be positive, you're right. And maybe in the medium/long term the opposition can get themselves together...?

A hung parliament would have meant that Corbyn would have stayed and the same situation would arise at the next election. At least now he has to go and Labour can appoint an electable leader, will they learn the lesson? 

I’ve voted Green in a Labour safe seat. Not for one moment thinking it will make any significant difference (well, perhaps it will help them save their deposit) or that I agree with their policies, but because as I see it, it’s the least worst option.

F.F.S. Is this really democracy? Voting for not who you want, but for what you see as the least worst (or maybe just a cop out) option.

... I’m trying... without much success though...

All the best music is sad. I'm going to listen to spectacularly good music all day tomorrow. I really am clutching at straws here!

It doesn't matter now, there will be no UK and little we recognise left in 5 years.

Jk

Trouble is, the membership of the political parties is clearly off-the-chart moronic. Hence Johnson vs. Corbyn. 

I think we need a new system!

Nothing lasts forever. Maybe now is the time for Scotland to go it alone and to make it's own way not that I would agree with that but if it does so be it.

The one thing that is certain in life is change is inevitable and that very much includes the political landscape. 

Well, brexit is now totally and utterly owned by the Tories. Much harder to blame anyone else now if it isn’t everything that was promised. 

The Irish will also soon realise that they will be shafted under this so called brexit deal, this will also change the political landscape in Northern Ireland, it may not just be the Scots saying see you later. 

Sorry, you are wrong....there is still plenty of mileage in blaming the EU!! If the next deadline is not met , it's not Remoaners but Barnier etc's fault . Tories can still pass the buck.

I voted.

I honestly don't think it would have made any difference who for, as we've had the same veteran Euro-sceptic, pro-brexit Tory MP (in a borderline pro-remain constituency) for the last 32 years! He had a 56% majority in 2017.

It would take something spectacular to shift him.

One small straw to clutch at I heard on Radio 4 is that, with a big enough majority not to held hostage by the ERG and other extremist right wing f*ckwits, Johnson might veer towards a softer Brexit and something resembling one nation Conservatism (which, if he has any remaining principles, might be where they lie)

I think there are some liberal elements to his politics. But quite honestly I'm not sure he really has any politics...Brexit was just a game. Whoever gets to him will get what they want...I don't have any idea who that's going to be.

^^New low-effort posting style, since the result has kind of wiped out any motivation to try at anything.

Lib Dem, Highlands, Scotland

In reply to Removed Usercapoap:

Blyth Valley has gone Blue. 10% swing and a very significant loss for Labour. The Brexit party took over 3000 votes which did for the Labour party. 

Here’s to Scottish independence. 

Any remaining principles - he never had any to start with! He stands for nothing apart from what is best for Boris, even his partner has said it. 

Does Allan like handcuffs? 

I'm not entirely sure Corbyn is the problem. I quite like him and he's clearly principled (I'm happy he'll talk to anyone, that's exactly what I want in a leader, so not terribly concerned about the Hamas/IRA issue).

The problem looks more that he has no apparent limit on how far leftward he is willing to go. He'd clearly go much further if he could, so represents something distasteful or dangerous to the majority. With Momentum and the unions behind him, and the UK left having shifted, the entire party has imploded. It's not really Corbyn himself.

If your party views "the centre" as being right-wing, and therefore not to be accommodated, then you are going to be handed your arse over and over. What remains to be seen is if the left, yet again, doubles down. Or if they finally open their fvcking eyes and ears to what people have been telling them. I'm not confident in that.

What have people been telling them?

No more excuses, nowhere to hide. You and your fellow travelers own this now. 

Jk

I'm surprised you need to ask the question, and I'm pretty sure (given my experience on here) what your response to the answer will be, so I'm not going to bother yet again.

But here's a plan for any Labour voter. Go find yourself some opposition voters and actually listen to what their issues are. Dispense with the caricatures, forget your sense of holding some innate moral high ground, and give some credit to the validity of their views without jumping to the racist, bigot alt-right accusations.

You might then start to get an idea for why the current left mindset fails to get a ball in the net when the goal is wide open.

Corbyn would talk to anyone you say, he never spoke to the Israeli govt despite his supposed policy of talking to people you may disagree with.

You are right about the party imploding but Corbyn was the catalist that allowed this to happen, he has a lot to answer for. 

You say momentum are far left yet the policies are no different to Scandinavian countries and tax policies of France and Germany so are they all far left?

No. 

Britain is so far to the right that ordinary social democrat policies are viewed as Marxist - Leninist for one reason only. 

Britain is owned by billionaires and a deeply entrenched establishment who tell the people what to think and the people believe them. We have always been a nation of servants to the upper classes and nothing has changed.

The majority of us it would seem have been played by them again. 

Things must be really really bad as I feel OK about the prospect of a clear Tory majority. Never ever thought I would feel like that. No I didn't vote Tory, nor will ever do so. 

As per post the other day, BJ will f this up and will not see his term out, but we might finally see this Brexit debacle move on. Although "end of the beginning...." is probably the reality.

Polls being accurate Corbyn did exactly what I always said he would. And that's be so totally inept as a LEADER that no one would trust him for anything. 

"Neutral about Brexit..." I hope that b*locks attitude to the most crucial issue facing the country in the short term haunts him to the grave. 

Yeah, that's true. He is dogmatic. But I wouldn't  put him beyond opening up a bit, even after all these years.  But surrounded by the people he is, backed by uncompromising leftists, and with the state of the mainstream, he's a fair representation of the alternative to the Tories.  Just blaming him misses the root cause.

Likewise. It'll be crap. But the Left have become so utterly repellant the possible silver linings, and hopefully a bit of introspection, might get us somewhere.

I wouldn't put it beyond Boris to moderate a do some good either. That's unlikely to appear a possibility to Labour supporters blinded by the one-sided bile of their own media.

Labour may even still come through, despite the exit-polls. The scary few hours should then also hopefully prompt some examination.

Momentum and Labour are nothing like Scandinavian Social Democrats. The mindset of Per Albin-Hansson and the Folkshemmet has no place in the UK's Left and the ability to embrace all players in the social structure is actively opposed by the Left in this country.

Its "you're with us or against us" and a million miles from anything approaching the best of SD. The very fact you are still wedded to Marxist-Leninist ideas, that you think you are not far enough leftward, and are tainted by being insufficiently doctrinaire, is exactly your problem. 

Your fundamental inability to comprehend democracy and its benefits is shining through.

Mr Ron I rarely agree with you (sorry!) but I hope you are right about BJ and also a wind of change for the good blowing through labour. The most unlikely Silver Lining for me tonight is still that Mr R Moggy is also looking for another job by tomorrow but that is unlikely to say the least! 😀 

Wow! At 10'o'clock I haven't felt such an empty, hollowed out feeling for since I don't know when. 

I suspect the great British public will just shrug and grumble and tug their forelocks at another five years of shit our superiors dump our way.

I've now progressed into the bollocks to it all phase.  Politics - I'm out!

I've gradually resigning myself to 5 more years of Tory shite and fervently hoping, by way of consolation, that Priti Patel loses her seat and those veins in Dominic Cummings's forehead burst. 

Uh? The policies are no different and are you saying Labour would not have made deals with the lib dems or SNP or the rest? That is absurd.

Why are you using a stupid George Bush quote when referring to Labour? You are flanneling and my politics have nothing to do with Labour whatsoever.

But its every socialists duty to vote for the party that best represents the interests of the working class. 

Oh please, yes...... 

And its every socialist parties duty to be lead well enough to stop the right from doing whatever the heck it likes. 

Either the UKC exit poll or the official exit poll got it wrong, hard to tell which so far

Grim night!

Ha! Yes. Quite a marked difference between the UKC view and the population view it seems. Perhaps a shed load of closet Tories on here?

At least UKC is not full of brainwashed gimps that would vote for an upper class toilet brush. 

With a heavy heart, Yeah Scots ... Scexit let's get it done!

And get back in the EU. 

You're on dodgy ground here now, you'll be condemning the rUK to Cons rule perpetuity.

As much as I appreciate the Scots ability/opportunity they may have to break free, I'll be struggling to ever forgive them for the above.

You are absolutely right about this. As one of those opposition voters I've often told people on here why their message isn't cutting it beyond their own echo chamber but all I meet is a wall of abuse from people so certain they actually do own the moral high ground that they presume they have a divine right to it.

It has sometimes felt like I'm the goal keeper and I walk out of the penalty area saying look there's my open goal but they'd rather kick the ball at me than into the back of the net.

In the best long term interest of the country I hope this election gives them a sufficiently bruising kicking that it finally pricks that bubble of arrogance.

You are right I just over reacted out of frustration at this potentially ridiculous result, forgive me as I want to stay united with the Labour voters of England and Wales because the workers are stronger together. 

Arrogance?!?!?

I've been meaning to ask this question for ages, in the light of all the evidence and data that's out there, you know where it is, that for millions of people, poverty has hugely increased in this country, don't you care, or do you just choose to ignore it?

A favourite stat I've seen regularly quoted is, record unemployment at 3 or 4%.
Now, what do you consider a worthwhile job is?  For example: Cycling around in the pissing rain and dark with a stupid kangeroo box on your back, with zero job security on shit money, delivering shit to lazy, fat type 2 diabetics whose only idea of exercise is operating their phone?
They're not jobs, they're just an insulting exploitation of people.

Now I haven't got got the audacity to be arrogant, but I think I've got a right to point to the finger of shame at the likes of you, your ilk and the party you support.

RIP 'Great' Britain.

What arrogance? The British people have been conned again by you and your party so let's look at where any arrogance in this campaign really stems from. 

I don't think that's fair. This was a Brexit election and Corbyn decided to say he was neutral and wanted to make it about other things and has been trashed.

This is about Labours Failings, we all know Bojo is what he is. 

Can w finally just get rid of Corbyn and move back to having some normal party.

But would you not vote for independence if you were up here? Surely this vote shows how out of step with each other us and rUK are? 

A while back Corbyns position was a firm NO to a second referendum. 

 I wonder what the results would be had he stuck to his guns and not given in to the die hard Labour party remainers? 

Socialism is about solidarity and internationalism. 

Don't be so sure that opinion in Scotland has shifted to any significant degree on independence from 2014. Also bear in mind that the Tories won't countenance another independence referendum so it's off the table until at least 2025 no matter how much Wee Jimmy Krankie jumps up and down. With a healthy majority the Tories can do what they like. You're too young to remember Thatcher but I think we're in for much of the same, a deeply unpopular government (at least with some)  that does what it says it was going to do.

This is the quandary.  Now, if I lived in Scotland, I'd vote leave, because of the horror story we've now got. I'd never vote SNP though because they're rubbish (to put it politely).  But I couldn't vote leave because it condemns rUK to eternal Toryism. This confuses my tiny brain!

If there was any calibre in the other parties the Tories wouldn't have won the last two elections. Yesterday Labour missed an open goal from 1m away.

Labour and the lib dems need to sort themselves quick to provide some decent opposition with a credible leader and policies. 

Democracy is having a vote, not who you choose to vote for/ your rationale for voting 

In reply to Removed UserEric9points

Maybe, but in the meantime Nationalist, pro EU resentment will only grow; this election result may delay a referendum but will make, I believe, independence all but inevitable in the longer term.

And the Tories not countenancing it will only strengthen the independence case. They aren't exactly popular up here!!

And I'm not too young to remember Thatcher, I was born towards the beginning of her reign. I remember how poor my parents were under her. She is definitely not forgotten up here!

Plenty are willing to vote SNP to get independence and then change their allegiances. 

The ramifications on NI when we go independent do concern me a bit, but England has made it's own bed and can lie in it. Our vote makes sod all difference there.

Jo Swinson has rightly resigned, and it would be a total disgrace if Jeremy Corbyn hasn't done so by lunchtime today. The most disastrous political leader I've seen in my (70 year) lifetime.

I reckon they'd have been eviscerated on both sides, rather than just on the leave side, in the same way that they were during the EU elections. Caroline Flint doesn't seem to have done too well out of backing the Withdrawal Agreement, losing by an bigger swing than the national average. Their electorate is 2/3 remain and their policy was the only way to try to bring those two sides together, unlike the Tories who were happy to abandon their remain voters and go full Brexit. Under a different leader, not burdened with so much historical baggage, it might have worked. But a leader with catastrophic personal approval ratings, an over-ambitious manifesto promising too much radical change too quickly and a live divisive issue on which the party has pleased neither side... well, we can see what the result is...

FWIW I still like lots of elements of Labour policies and I hope they don't overreact by swinging too far back to the centre, though obviously they do need to shift their position. The problem was that the manifesto was overambitious and unfocussed and they needed to scale it back. You don't need to renationalise/restructure everything and you need to be realistic and honest about tax, and that everyone needs to pay more if they want better services. They have an uphill battle next time around after a result like this and the forthcoming boundary changes. I think the only hope for real change in the future is a progressive alliance with the aim of electoral reform and ending FPTP.

Agree.

What is worse is that because of Corbyn's (and his cronies) incompetence many competent Labour mps have probably lost their seats and been replaced by mediocre Tories. Corbyns legacy will continue for some time. 

Plenty of people were willing, and did, vote SNP in this election to try and stop brexit. That does not mean that they will vote for independence as well. The SNP won 46% of the vote. I would imagine that Nicola Sturgeon rather hopes that her request for a referendum is refused. She needs to build that percentage up. In the circumstances of yesterday's election I doubt there were many closet independence supporters voting anything other than SNP or Green. 

Indyref2 2021 or 2022. I wouldn't bet on the outcome either way. 

If

Please remember that 90% of us living outside Scotland suffered equally under Thatcher. We blamed her though, rather than blaming the English.

Your notion that England made its own bed and can lie in it ignores the fact that Tory power has been (in part) handed to them by Scotland turning its back on the poor of Britain in an attempt to just look out for itself.

Apparently so - from the BBC article:

"Given the result, you might assume Jeremy Corbyn would swiftly fall on his sword - but he has instead called for a period of quiet reflection. Party rules make it difficult to oust him, but already senior figures are asking how long this period will last. 

Senior figures at Westminster and in local government feel delaying an inevitable leadership contest will lead to a similar result in May's council elections. Mr Corbyn seems intent on staying in place until someone from his wing of the party is ready to take over"

Just to ensure continuity of unelectability.

... pretty much spot on...

... but, trying to look on the bright side; it is Friday 13th... maybe we’re in for a repeat of the  shenanigans of BC44...

And some Indy supporters voted to leave EU too. 

Maybe it's the echo chamber effect, but it feels like Indy momentum is building. I was a no voter in 2014, but not now. There are a growing number of us who have shifted.

How do you think Scotland has turned its back on the poor? We have for a long time voted for left of center parties. We just have sod all influence!

This is the really key thing Labour need to take away from this. Every one of the 21,605,280 people who voted yesterday and didn't vote for Labour, or the ~14,542,000 people who didn't bother to vote at all has been brainwashed. Definitely. There's definitely nothing wrong with Labour or their leader, and what they probably need to do is just shout harder in everyone's faces about how anyone who doesn't worship Papa Smurf is morally bankrupt.

That will fix this.

I agree, I think momentum, at least for a referendum, is building. I don't think that will necessarily translate into an independence vote. At this point proponents can use phrases such as 'remain in the EU' which sounds easy but is wrong in fact. To an extent they are, like the brexiteers, guilty of greatly understating the impact and difficulty of their path and underestimating the time scale. As those issues become more widely understood the momentum will likely stall. Some will shift back some will not. 

This is in a way a typical answer from people not willing to recognise hard reality.

If you will not learn then you will get the same answer next time.

Calling people brainwashed etc is just plain stupid.

I suppose we can at least look forward to

40 new hospitals,

50,000 new coppers, and

50,000 new nurses, so it might not be all that bad. I'm holding my breath.

I will be interested to hear of Offwidth's views on the results.

Pretty scathing for Labour.

He is so incompetent he can't even resign properly! 

It has more to spend per capita than England, has flex over it's taxation rates. Has freedom to manage and or it's own independent police, education, judiciary, local services and health system... exactly which bits can't the snp control that you are blaming everything on?

Did you say momentum? We've got one you can have.

You just need to give them a few minutes to edit their slogan though, since their agenda has been categorically shown to be 'For the few not the many'.

It has flex mostly on income tax, which isn’t useful on its own. It doesn’t have control over immigration which is absolutely crucial to growth. It doesn’t have control over things like EU membership which are also crucial.

Logically, every country in the world can't have a net in flow of people to maintain growth, so they are destined to fail? In these times of climate change, finite resources etc perhaps economies shouldn't be relying on endless growth to survive? 

If the snp are so amazing at running Scotland, they should have no problem attracting a few of the 50+ million living in England, wales and NI. 

A minority, fractionally bigger than I feared but a significant minority none the less given the drama about to unfold in its name. Yes, we've been comprehensively outplayed.

Those clinging to the hope a big majority means Johnson has the power to outmanoeuvre the ERG miss two things: who he owes for funding this brexit election and the fact none of the new intake will be moderating voices on Europe, many will be inclined toward the ERG position.

jk

I think you're missing a hefty slice of sarcasm.

Ideological purity is far more important to the far left than actually winning, they are a bunch of serial protesters.

Actually what seems to have escaped many people is that if you take Brexit out if it, most of the Tory manifesto could have been a New Labour manifesto. All the talk of the far right is complete nonsense.

One of our friends down the road has a Lib Dem signpost in their front garden. The other day, I noticed it had been pulled out, turned round and stuck back in!

Stand on that and I'd vote for you.

jk

The level of awareness of environmental issues is from 1997, I’ll give you that. 

Serial losers seemingly 

Wish I could find it now, but there was a David Goodhardt piece a few weeks back making this point.  Tories have reached out and appealed to working class voters with grass-roots policies.  The other side meanwhile registers disgust at them for voting, or holding the personal views, that they aren't supposed to.

Brilliant!

The proof of the pudding...

I hope you get what you wanted from Brexit and the Boris govt. 

Agree there - brexit ref 2 took place yesterday; analysis on the tellybox this morning showed how much the tories gained in "leave" constituencies compared to "remain". Otherwise their manifesto pretty much comprises elements of any lab or con manifesto you care to name from the past 15 years.

I hope he can stamp on  Priti Patel if she excels herself in exuding more nastiness and natsy policies

I'm glad Tim Farron held as he is a hard working and very conscientious constituency MP

Yes. The Tories moved towards the center while Labour moved further left. The Tories won.

Even their Brexit policy is reasonably close to center. There are probably more people fed up with the postponement of the decision than people that want a 2nd ref.

Well the analyses seem to show not that but that the Brexit phalanx coalesced while Remain voters had no one to trust and split.   Corbyn was hollow empty during the referendum and so weakened the Remain cause

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

At least we might get democracy back in the UK 🖒

Restore democracy is what I'm hoping for !

Sending all the money to Europe 😉

I was taking the piss, I'm betting we'll see very little of any of that list, in the same way we got ZERO of the 20,000 starter homes we were promised 4 years ago.

How does anyone know how long Corbyn, is going to hang about? This is the same bullshit, that is partly the reason Labour lost the election?

What a f*cking shit state we've got our country in where the media are controlling who's the leader of our country and our political parties.

What's even worse than that is the people believing any shit f*ck made up story or speculation.

F*ck the English Tories.  The SNP have an overwhelming mandate for indyref2 and Scotland is not going to take no for an answer.    The unionist parties fought this election on 'no to indyref2'  they got their arses handed to them and their branch party managers should do the right thing and accept it.

I'll likely be living in Scotland again soon. I've recently been wondering whether independence could make sense.  Attitudes and posts like yours, remind me exactly why it doesn't...

There's no getting away from Labour's shortcoming in this or the success of carefully targeted Conservative/BP campaigning but the story isn't simple. For example had we stood together with common voice '2nd referendum' (Red/Orange) could *just* have taken York Outer but instead with no clear single candidate and mixed messages the vote split cleanly and the incumbent donkey came straight through the middle. All over the country as the dust settles sad stories like this will be commonplace. Johnson won his landslide not with a groundswell of popular support but by making good tactical choices while the rest of us tore strips off each other distracted.

jk

you might say that the genius behind the tory project since the autumn has been to trick everyone into the election parlour instead of sticking to the 2nd referendum and not letting him out of the sticky minority seats

Thus ensuring we leave without ever revealing the truth about Remainers actually outnumbering leavers.

A tragedy arising from deceit and comparable to Trump claiming that the American people spoke for him, ignoring the fact that Clinton had more votes from citizens

Cummings?

48 out of 59 seats is a very clear mandate for indyref2.  There was already a mandate from the Holyrood election and the vote in the Scottish Parliament.   Now it is unquestionable.   If the English government ignores it then it can expect to be taken to court.

Possibly.  But the divisive, shouty, Brexit-esque attitudes you and other SNP zealots display mean I  and I imagine many others would vote no.  Populist nationalism is really unpleasant whatever the nation.

No it's a sign they didn't want Labour or the tory party to represent them in London. 

Well there was a Tory landslide in my constituency, even by Derbyshire Dales standards! Of the 11 Derby and Derbyshire constituencies, 9 are now Conservative. Really surprised that High Peak turned blue

English government? 

This is why we are fckd. 

People believing right wing establishment lies about moderate policies and a moderate candidate who is a threat to their endless milking of British people and looking on a surface level of how someone looks rather than what they do.

We missed a fantastic opportunity to embrace a wonderful leader that would provide us with a second referendum, a climate change revolution, properly fund our public services and take 14 million British people out of poverty but we blew it on a far right fantasy land of more division, hate and suffering. 

Yet some point the finger at the very person who provided that fantastic opportunity rather than to those who duped that 20 or 15 or whatever it was millions of British people. 

Corbyn was the greatest prospective PM since the 1960s and I salute him. 

Let the dust settle.

It seems to me there's a very clear mandate in Scotland for another independence referendum, but the Tories also have a clear mandate for not allowing one - they just won a majority after saying they'd block it. Democracy is messy and frequently self-contradictory.

And, whatever is right, they have a significant majority, and may simply be able to ignore what anyone else wants.

Wiser people than us are looking at this (on both sides), let's see what happens over the next wee while; getting frustrated and angry isn't going to help anyone just now.

Bullocks.

John Smith is likely top.

I'd put Corbyn at the bottom. A lifetime in politics, 70years old and absolutely nothing positive achieved, only destroyed. His leadership has likely ended the career of many good Labour MPs. 

Class.

Keep them coming.

Blame everybody else!

I do enjoy your posts, they bring a smile.

Hahahahahahahahah! Are you doing pantomime this season as well as comedy?

Who's going to take the British government to court for declining a second indy ref? This was a general election not an Indy ref. You don't half talk some shite at times.

In 2013, Corbyn was awarded the Gandhi Foundation International Peace Award. His commitment to peace and human rights is lifelong.

In 2017 he won the Séan MacBride Peace Prize. 

This man would have been an historic leader. 

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/12/10/mainstream-media-dont-want-know-corb...

Biggest defeat in modern history, nothing do do with me Guv!

Sums it up really. 

Wise post. 

Congratulations on getting your man elected. Not my politics but at least he seems sincere. 

(not quite as bad being a liberal as I feared, but it was a low bar) 

Absolutely. One thing that is hard to do on UKC is have a nuanced debate about the Conservatives "cos' they're all c****."

Well actually they're not. They get some things right and some things wrong, just as Labour did. No party has a monopoly on the truth or competance.

As I said above my overwhelming emotion is a sense of relief that we've doged the Corbyn bullet. That doesn't make me an uncritical admirer of Johnson or all things Tory but its very hard to make that point on here. When 90% of posters are screaming at you it's hard to whisper back.

The same guys as funded the lawsuits Boris lost a few months ago have approached the same counsel and will be launching a crowdfunder in January if Boris refuses the s30 order.

Cheers. It's a small victory in the context, but I'll take it.

Time will tell what really happened here - but I do wonder whether the Lib Dem collapse is entirely real.

They were counting on a lot of tactical voting going their way (which would have generated a slightly misleading 'victory' in terms of numbers), but I suspect it actually worked the other way, with potential Lib Dem voters instead voting Labour (or sometimes SNP), against the Tory candidates.

I really don't see how a Scottish court can force a political decision on the UK government and I if they tried to then I would expect the government to ignore it. What is the legal basis for this? It's not going to happen without the express consent of the UK government. 

You haven't been whispering... you've been shouting very loudly about the danger of something that was never going to happen, a Corbyn government.

As you say they Tories have always been a mixed bunch, but less so now. They've got rid of their more moderate, experienced, and competent MPs. What truly worries me is that if their is another global financial crisis or similar, there is no one in government competent enough to deal with it. Cummings is good at slogans..... running a country is a whole different ball game.

"What truly worries me is that if their is another global financial crisis or similar, there is no one in government competent enough to deal with it."

You can't have been that worried...you voted Labour didn't you?

his leadership skills shone through yesterday. 

Or do you mean historically incompetent? Worst ever. He make Milliband look capable. 

Well intentioned and decent but not a leader.

I don't feel that we've dodged a bullet here, I think the Conservative front bench is pretty scary. But I agree that I would also have been worried about a Corbyn majority, with the incredible promises, it's just that that was so unlikely. The Conservatives cabinet (if not their manifesto) is very much to the right of all cabinets in my memory. There was this wide open goal to the left of them, but Corbyn went and aimed at the corner flag.  

Exactly my point, subtlety doesn't get you anywhere on here against the wall of sound from the left.

It's easy to say a Corbyn government was never going to happen now we know he's been slaughtered but with the polls tightening as they were and Labour still enjoying a built in electoral advantage of 4 to 5% because of the unequal size of constituencies ( https://tinyurl.com/vmkzs9m ) there was no guarantee that Corbyn wouldn't end up in no.10

He wouldn't even need to have an overall majority to wreak havoc, PMs have a lot of executive power and their ministers (especially the Chancellor) can do a lot behind the scenes which may not get noticed until it is too late.

See my point above about executive power, PMs and ministers can do a lot without parliamentary approval.

As I understand it UN laws on self determination and it's a two pronged strategy, first there's a chance they could win in court but second, in order to defend the case the UK government would need to make arguments that would be politically very difficult.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2019/results

Technically, no but one look at that sickening map of seats won and it's hard to argue this will be anything but an English government.

The hopeful can of course cling onto the idea the tories will need to nourish the neglected regions and nations of the UK in order to hold the tottering pile together and cling to their unlikely gains but this election wasn't paid for and won in order for them to do that. Johnson's investors will demand returns, woe betide him if he tries slip those Faustian bonds now because  there's a long line of ghouls behind him more than willing to do what we hope he might not be.

jk

Actually no. Unless and until we vote to leave the UK it is the UK government. Remember 54% of Scottish voters voted for avowedly unionist parties. 

Let's see how it feels after five more years. My bet is this will be a London based, City facing government desperately fighting for the whole term to control the fires it starts over the next few months. Smoke makes great cover.

jk

I voted and campaigned for a good Labour MP with a realistic view of the possible outcomes, hoping for a hung parliament at best.

I could understand that kind of snarky comment pre-election, but not now and I'm surprised. I'm talking about the reality of the situation this country is in now, and you're talking about something that was never going to happen.

The reality is we have a clown for PM for the next 5 years, with Cummings pulling the strings, and we have no idea what his plans are. We do know it's a government a number of competent Tories could not serve in, Hammond ect.

Scary innit! Boris couldn't handle Foreign Secretary and now he has all that power, without the more experienced and competent Tories holding him back.

Imbecilic point. First of all not every country in the world had a demographic imbalance in the same direction. Some have two many youth and others have too many old. Movement of people is what allows to balance dynamically between different needs.

As for climate change, also an  imbecilic point, I don’t see how someone moving from say, Poland to Scotland would do anything to the climate. If anything Scotland is a good eco-friendly place to live, ahead of many other developoed countries in terms of emissions per capita.

This has nothing to do with SNP being good at running things. You have a demographic problem that originates from the 50 years ago.

Moreover, economic and demographic reasons are secondary, we just like the ability to move freely in Europe and we have strong cultural and personal links with Europe which we enjoy. It should be up to us to decide who we welcome in the country not up to some pathologically xenophobic arseholes in Westminster.

I’m hoping for a disastrous Brexit. Hopefully that will induce some sense of perspective in the deluded who still believe in the union in Scotland. Short term pain for long term gain. I despise Westminster and everything it stands for. 

That would mean him taking a pay cut of about £50000 though.

I'm not hoping for disaster but can't see things working out very well. My silver lining is I think the next few years will finally see an end to British/English exceptionalism.

How can anyone be hoping for a disastrous Brexit? 

You might not have wanted it but it's pretty clear the people do, just ask the huge number of Labour voters who've been prepared to vote tory yesterday to get their wish. 

The fight is over, the course is been laid in, we are all leaving the EU and that is certain now. So to hope it goes badly is to wish destruction and pain on your fellow citizens, remainers and all for what exactly? So you can sit there and smugly say "I told you so"?

The debate is over and the choice is made, now we all need to pull together and try and make this work for the country as a whole.

[poverty] ... don't you care, or do you just choose to ignore it?

Well, waiting for an answer?

You can pontificate till the cows come home, blah blah blah.

What do you honestly feel in the depths of your soul about poverty in this country?

No facts, no links, no bullshit, your feelings.

Give me an honest answer and I promise you, you'll never hear from me again.  I'll get Alan to delete my account.

Or more accurately, their informal slogan has been:

"For the many, but not the jew"