UKC

I'm exasperated at the lack of vaccination amongst this group.

Possibly less than 20%, are doubly vaccinated.

Does this fit in with the old idea of the level of intelligence of many of them?

I’ll bet all those Premiership rugby lads are all vaxxed up though….

70,000 care home staff not double jabbed (Unison estimate). My view is that these are intelligent people (but I disagree with their anti vax stance).  

I'm not giving them any form of excuse, but lots of people have a reaction to the injection that could take them out of training/playing for a week or two... maybe that's why?

I felt pretty $hit for a week after my second Astra jab that certainly would have prevented me from playing Premier League football (all other excuses excluded )

One of footballs campaigns at the moment is stopping online abuse with the hashtag #HateWontWin. 

I find this post unnecessarily hateful. 

Some groups have higher levels of vaccine hesitancy including various ethnicities. There are many complicated reasons,  nothing to do with intelligence. 

Interesting and helpful piece on the camera by Klopp expressing his views on it...

No excuse in my book....get the jab unless medically it is contra indicated for you...

The OP used the word "exasperated", that's not expressing hatred.

OK, but how about Setting An Example?

FIFA could show some backbone by making vaccination mandatory for anyone going to Qatar too.

Not getting fully vaccinated against a deadly disease is pretty stupid though. 

I don't have any compassion for people who refuse to get jabbed (medically exempt persons aside) regardless of ethnicity. It's risky for them, people they come into contact with and has little in the way to do with common sense.

Someone (Roadrunner 6?) on here mentioned a while ago that Texas was triaging patients based on their vaccination status. I would support the same measures here to help those who helped themselves.

If fans have to be doubled jabbed, so do the players. Unvaxed players shouldn't even be allowed in the grounds. No debate, end of. 

It is an old idea, many are actually well educated these days and do degrees whilst playing to give them career options in to their 30s. 

Have you considered that all clubs have doctors on staff, and perhaps they've taken advice from them?

He also took a cheap shot at the intelligence of a group of people who don't share his own views.

 

Although it isnt that deadly against the demographic a professional footballer falls into. Most will be in the demographic bands where the risks/benefits of the vaccine of an individual level will be running pretty close.  Whilst I dont agree with their position I can see why they would go for it.

Setting aside those that have genuine medical conditions that preclude them from being vacinated (a tiny percentage in the super fit young) the vast majority of medical professionals wholeheartedly endorse vacination so if the team doctors are saying otherwise then some new appointments may be required.

They're not 'special' they're just prima donas addicted to social media and conspiracy theories.

Are 'footballers' excluded from the ideal that we get vacinated not only to protect ourselves but also our fellow human beings ? Pretty selfish eh ?

Wow. Remove those who disagree with your stance. To say such things I assume you're a doctor, at the very least? 

Ps. How many professional footballers do you know to make such judgements?

Risks of severe illness (or worse) from both are low for the typical age range of professional footballers but the average covid risk is likely at least an order of magnitude higher than any vaccine risk, and that ignores the added risk of spread (which might severely impact the team). Even for the 12 to 15 age group individual risks are lower on average for vaccination.

Some cdc data for changing covid hospitalisations and death risks with age bands:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discove...

I was responding to the claim about it being a dangerous disease and them being stupid but lets move on to the new argument.

Whilst I dont agree with them I can see where they are coming from.

What was the risk band you are in for the vaccine/covid and what work do you do?

For me the risk of the vaccine was sufficiently lower than covid so made things a no brainer even if I only cared about myself. If they were closer then it gets trickier (especially since you have to add in the certainty of the vaccine vs just the chance of catching covid) especially if you are doing a job where a slight drop in your physical performance could have you out the door.

There is also the issue with the vaccines in this case that they seem better at reducing the risk to yourself rather than preventing its transmission (last I saw there was evidence of lower transmission but potentially that could be balanced by the fact you would be less likely to notice you have it and so be more liable to be out and about).

True, but recent cases of on pitch cardiac arrests have very publicly highlighted the catastrophic effects of low risk medical conditions.

Anyone who has a career based on the requirement to run fast and breath heavily freely would be well advised to minimise the risk of catching covid. 

For an industry used to managing peak performance and needing to maintain team fitness across the season I'm surprised very little has been made of vaccinating players. That's before you get into the whole international travel and role model these guys have to consider. 

I really can't find any sensible reason why anyone would not get double jabbed. 

I think most of the arguments for vaccination for footballers have been already made above. The only further one I can think of is from a business continuity point of view. Even if we accept that they may not get sick. The rules currently would mean any unvaccinated will be in isolation for 10 days if they are in contact with a positive case. I would have thought club medical staff would be pushing it just to stop the whole team from being in isolation because someone tested positive.

Let's see what the big bollock Sajid Javid says...

sed %s/care homes/football/g < Javid_talks_about_care_sector

"If you work in football you set an example to others, and if you cannot be bothered to go and get vaccinated, then get out and go and get another job."

I was listening to a story about this on the radio. They spoke to the club doctor from my local club. He suggested that professional footballers live in bubbles, insulated from the outside world (even in the lower leagues, League 2 in this case) as a result they can be unduly influenced by social media and the views of a small number of senior players in the dressing room.

I somewhat reinforces the view that whilst footballers may not be stupid, often they are incapable of engaging with the world in a mature and adult way. A generalisation of course and there are certainly exceptions, but seems fairly compelling to me.

Rochdale? Do you have a link or remember what station? I’d be interested in listening! 

The problem with ideals is that they are often a personal choice, you are not excluded from them you just choose whether or not to adopt them.

It was one of the BBC stations, 1, 4 or 5 depending on whoever last changed the station on the car radio.

Possibly an excerpt from this interview.

https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1445325980562870273?s=21

Where do you get this statistic from? Looks bollox to me. Are you simply prejudiced?

What surprises me *, is that you’ve put a statistic out there, and a majority appear to believe it. Wow!  Shows how gullible even the climbing elite can be!!

End of September, 49% EFL double jabbed  (the UK average of the equivalent age group is 60%).

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/58806500.amp

But why let facts get in the way of good old ‘let’s have a go at football thread.’  

* doesn’t really surprise tbh  

Given how much they are now paid, even in the lower leagues, I'm a bit surprised more are thinking of careers after their playing career now. My experience of players (early 90's) who got degrees and had the ability to play full time in the lower leagues,often chose to play part time at conference level or below, so they could continue rather than start a career at 35ish. 

Dear Mods,

This whole thread is based on bollox and false info. You could consider pulling it like the others?   

I know, the poor footballers, they've struggled through lockdown, trapped in their 6 bed homes with only a private cinema, pool, gym, jacuzzi, sauna... to pass the time with. Many even endured a 10% pay cut, they likely had to delay the purchase of their next super car until 2022. 

Perhaps it’s something in their psyche. You have to be pretty driven to want to succeed to become a professional in even the fourth league. Why would that stop when you hit your early 30s, regardless of how much you may or may not have in the bank? Most people are afraid of being bored when they retire in their 60s.. I can only imagine it’s worse when you’re forced to at half that age. 

Yawn

Is it?

There are a lot of news stories out there about low uptake within premiership clubs at the moment.

For example:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58806500

• So with fewer than half of players at most Premier League and English Football League clubs vaccinated, why might some players be hesitant and how could that impact football?

Not setting a great example, are they?

I haven't found a source corroborating ~20%, but a lot of articles are citing "less than half" or similar, which doesn't contradict 20%.  Be interested to hear if the OP has a source for that particular detail, but it seems clear there is a significant issue in a group with a very high media profile who serve as role models for many.

Wolves: 100% double jabbed

Leeds and Brentford: 90% double jabbed

Whole of EFL 49% double jabbed end September so possibly over 50% now. That’s 72 teams. Only 20 teams  in premier league. It’s no where near “possibly less than 20%”.  And absolutely contradicts the 20% veteye reckons. 

Wasn't the traditional route for the the old pro to but a boozer and p*ss their savings up the wall, rather than becoming a successful businessman? 

Now some could probably buy wetherspoons

Punditry, coaching or golf seem the better options. Drink, drugs and gambling less so. 

Googling a list of players with degree it comes up with the old favourites like Coppell, Heighway, Wetherall, Wharton and Dowie alongside quite a few from other countries. I struggling to think of ex pros who have gone onto high powered jobs as a result of their academic qualifications, perhaps there are some from the lower leagues I'm not aware of? 

I did not say the OP was right, I said the sources I had seen did not contract them, and I would be keen to see their source (which rather implies something....).

I also said there is a significant issue with the premier league.  I stand by that.

That's a lot better than the 20% from the OP, but it's still absolutely stand out shockingly low. It's appalling frankly from role models at this point.

Yes, it does.  I don't doubt your figure, but it would be good for you to provide a reference for it, so that it's here for all to read.  Edit: Sorry, I see you have linked it up thread.

If the OP had put 50% it would still be a massive, noteworthy issue.  Perhaps they'll come back and clarify their position.

You make the mistake of assuming most leave the profession incredibly wealthy. The lower leagues make up the bulk of playing staff. Even £5k a week over 15 years won’t set you up for life, especially a lifestyle lived whilst earning that sort of money. The highest 3rd division players are on £10k a week and that is the exception rather than the rule. Going in to ‘high powered’ careers isn’t necessarily the aim. Assuming you’ve paid off your mortgage by the time you’re 35, any career above the £30k pa would be enough to live a comfortable life. The majority of players will retire in this manner. 

Norman Whiteside did a degree in podiatry and had a successful career doing that post retirement. I remember having a conversation with him about it 20 years ago.

youtube.com/watch?v=79vdlEcWxvM&

When I did my teacher training Uwe Rossler used to come in to do a bit of German teaching.  There have always been some intelligent footballers, I'm just not convinced there are more now. Better media training from a young age, definitely. 

Some would argue that if the corresponding age groups in the general public have a higher uptake then they're not being looked at as role models in this instance. If it takes a Championship striker having their jab to make some teenager get theirs then I think we have greater problems with regards public health messaging. You could probably count on one hand the number of adults in the country who would be swayed by a footballer having one. Some would also argue that their status is rightly private, and news media shouldn't be making an issue of it. 

It would for anyone intelligent enough to plan ahead? 

Evidently it doesn't, if professional footballers seek education and careers following their playing days. My fag packet maths on those numbers suggest they might end up with about £750k investment capital, depending upon how lavish a lifestyle they lived. They'd need decent returns on that to make it the 40 odd years to death, without a second income.

You won’t catch me sticking up for footballers not getting jabbed. I’m conflicted on this ‘role model’ issue. Part of me goes ‘why should they be’, but them I’m glad when I see footballers acting as good role models (Taking the Knee etc etc). Some football clubs have very high jab rates.  Be interesting to see if the low jab rates in those clubs are equivalent to other cohorts of people of similar age, ethnicity etc.  Doesn’t excuse it though.

But I have little time for football bashing that’s based on made up stats. 

It easily could. 

I thought fag packet maths suggets if you can live off half your income, you need to work for about 20 years, if you can manage on a quarter, you only need to work for 10. Perhaps they need to be getting better financial advice. 

£5k/week for 15 years is nearly £4m in total which will be way more than most people's lifetime earnings.

Let's say they manage to live off half of that during the 15 years (£130k/year).

So that's £130k/year to be saved - some of that can be tax free in a pension pot but lets say £100k will be taxed at higher rate, gives £50k/year after tax + the £30k in the pension.

£80k for 15 years is £1.2m and I reckon there will be ways of making it more tax efficient so the likely pot would be more like £1.5m or more.

I suspect the reason for your "Evidently it doesn't" is that a high proportion of footballers don't manage the 15 years with this level of earnings. Either cut short by injury or lower earnings at the beginning and end of their footballing careers.

Of course those in Championship & Premier leagues are earning (sorry I mean being paid) more than this.

I'd say your figures were on the conservative side assuming no growth etc.

We are also guilty of being old men on UKC and ignoring any contribution from their partners. Quite considerable in Paul Peschisolido.'s case.

£5k would be a peak earning for most in the leagues in question. Most would most certainly not be earning even half that pre or post ‘prime’ years of their mid 20s. Plus numbers were dependent on the extent of their footballer lifestyle. Like I said, fag packet maths and in my case, top end scenario. 

absolutely. Here’s what COVID did to two times Grand Tour winner Egan Bernal:

https://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/egan-bernal-reveals-weight-gain-du...

no ITU admission, no dramas; but rendered him so uncompetitive he considered withdrawing from the Vuelta, a race he would have been in a short list of two to win had he been fit. 

Aside from all the other arguments, even from a purely selfish perspective, it’s in their interests to have the vaccine- it only takes a marginal drop off in fitness and that’s their first team place gone, and maybe for the season. Some careers don’t recover from lay offs like that. 

If some teams are 100% and 90%, and the average is 50%, that means that some teams are significantly under 50%. Might even be as low as 20%...

That's what crossed my mind, too; the negative effects of covid (not even 'long covid'), even in the 'young and healthy' are likely to be worse than the side effects of the vaccine.

Correct. Some teams could even be as low as 4%.  That would make for an even better statistic.  

It’s interesting that the three teams with very high jab rates are those probably not considered title contenders etc. and wolves and Brentford probably aiming to simply stay up? (no offence to fans of those teams).  Perhaps they know they can least afford players off with Covid so have pushed the jabbing?  Some high profile players of ‘big’ clubs have missed games due to catching Covid. 

Players... vaccinated and have a few days of mild symptoms, perhaps miss a couple of training sessions or one match versus risk covid where even mild long covid could see months of reduced lung function etc.. their team doctors need sacking. 

Quite simply I was reiterating what was said on the Radio 5 Live program noted in the thread earlier. In that, a representative of the footballers, admitted that the percentage vaccinated could be under 20%, and that he would have to verify that by looking carefully at the statistics, but he could not deny that figure.

Yes that 5 Live program did have a doctor who was from Rochdale, and he seemed to be unable to persuade his footballers to get vaccinated. He too sounded exasperated.

It seems, however that in good part, in your eyes, footballers can do little wrong. You incorrectly assume that I am the opposite in my views. This is not the case. I love to watch football, when I have the time, and greatly appreciate the players who show real skill, and also those that have a more broad-minded approach to the wider world. I do not presume to be able to extensively discuss the tactics of different clubs, and similar things, however.

Possibly Gary Lineker should ask his footballer and manager guests if they have been vaccinated, to bring the discussion up-topic and to act as role models for those who might otherwise be less likely to be vaccinated.

Another matter that may be part of this is that D strain of Covid-19 has a greater frequency than other types to infect younger people. Likewise long Covid (which is still being characterised, I appreciate) seemingly affects younger people more than older people: Thus vaccination is logical in the younger groups, even if there are fewer in these groups who get the clinical signs, if unvaccinated, compared to older people and vulnerable groups.

He is clearly talking nonsense.

I too would be exasperated - very few people have an excuse for not getting jabbed  

?  You’ve not read my posts - check 17.55

You incorrectly assume that I am the opposite in my views. This is not the case. I love to watch football, when I have the time, and greatly appreciate the players who show real skill, and also those that have a more broad-minded approach to the wider world. I do not presume to be able to extensively discuss the tactics of different clubs, and similar things, however.

Sorry if I’ve come across like that.  As an aside, and as a big football fan, the skill aspect etc interests me less than the ‘whole experience’ of watching a live game. Just got away tickets for Bolton vs Wigan. Not been for ages. There will be lots of average skill, tonnes of emotion and Wigan will win 1-3.....

Sounds good to me. Does he have the bottle though?  He has stuck his neck out on a few thinks - go for it Gary!

My main point was the number of people in this thread who took the 20% figure for granted and then went on the usual (for this site) footballer stereotype discussions. Not saying 50% is ideal, but it could easily be more than this and isn’t a million miles away from similar cohorts of age/ethnicity.  

Thank you for explaining.

I thought that you were going to say that you were a Newcastle fan, then the discussion would go on for pages and pages....

Well I hope that you get better than 1-3 as the final whistle result...

You make the mistake of assuming most leave the profession incredibly wealthy. The lower leagues make up the bulk of playing staff. Even £5k a week over 15 years won’t set you up for life, especially a lifestyle lived whilst earning that sort of money. The highest 3rd division players are on £10k a week and that is the exception rather than the rule.

5k a week for 15 years is £3.9 million. Now assuming 40% tax (on the lot !) that still leaves £2.34 million.

10k a week would be £4.68 million.

Now I'm not known for throwing my money about, but if anyone gets that sort of income over a period of time, there should be absolutely no reason to work a single day after retiring from playing football - unless of course they've pi$$ed it up the wall.

The average annual salary of a league two player is £114k. Still loaded, but I guess less than many think. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.888sport.com/blog/league-two-salary%3fam...

Like I said in my other reply, that will be top end earnings for a peak number of years bookended by the youth and ‘experienced’ end of a career for a small minority of star players in the bottom half of the league structure. It was fag packet maths of a best case scenario. For over half of the professional footballers in the country. I don’t think it’s unfair to point out that the majority do not leave the profession set for life, as most on here would seem to think.

5k would be high for League 1 and as BC points out it is considerably lower for league 2. Not sure it's top end though some Sunderland players are on 16k a week? 

Won't may of these players be on Premier League books in their teens? I'd love Cole Palmer to men we don't have to spend 150m on Kane in the summer, but if he avoids injury he might unfortunately end up somewhere like Wigan where he will be on less than the 5.4k a week he currently earns a an 18 year old. 

 for a small minority of star players in the bottom half of the league structure. It was fag packet maths of a best case scenario. For over half of the professional footballers in the country.

Perhaps if you include some players that spend a some years in League1/2 and the rest non league/Scotland you have a point. Given the bigger squads in the Championship/Premier league more than half seems a stretch. I'd say for anyone who managed a couple of seasons in the Championship (20k a week average) and the rest in L1/2 your ball park 5k a week figure won't be far off.

For those who will managed a 15+ year career, I'm not convinced, but it is certainly far more than even 10 years ago. Go back to the 80's it would be far, far fewer. Given the money in the Premier League the number of players who should be set for life at 20 looks like it will only increase.