UKC

Please recommend something .

Not an expert of course but for me 1. join a climbing club 2. get out a lot if possible alone if need be e.g. travelling, hiking, for me it really works and meeting people then no matter how briefly helps [me anyway] 3. look through contacts and then call an old friend you have not seen for ages

Wishing you well

Maybe do a half day a week in the nearest charity shop.Great way to meet people.Have sent you an email.

If a regular somewhere like a climbing wall, gym or pool. Take the risk and starting small just say hello to some of the others who also seem to be regulars. As time goes by the conversations can deepen and acquaintances, if not friendships, can develop. 

I think most areas have voluntary groups that go out and maintain local footpaths. It's sociable, can be hard work and gets you outside. Contact your local parish council or the Ramblers Association.

Get yourself a road bike.  Join a club and go out on club rides. Easy way to meet people without any sort of great obligation to chatter if that's not your thing.  Go out in a group, stop for a coffee, carry on - chatting as you go if that's your thing.  And repeat.  My club has regular weekend rides, plus day times during the week, plus Wednesday Night Blasts - one hour handicap with a pint and a pie afterwards.  Similar on a Friday night, but less effort and more beer.  The difficulty is fitting in cycling, climbing and domestic obligations

Connect.

Start small and with something that you enjoy or are interested in, and stick with it.  It takes time but it works.

Also, don't be afraid to seek professional help.  There is absolutely no shame in it.

Many people find themselves lonely while being surrounded by others. If this describes your situation, you might  consider psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapy. It can be very helpful. 

Lifts and partners forum: find someone new to climb somewhere fantastic, challenging and adventurous e.g. on scafell. It's often easy to bond with people when you go through an intense, stressful but positive experience together. It brings out the best in people and will tend to put you in the mood for a pint and dinner after. Repeat a few times and you'll likely form some real relationships which may last for donkeys years.

I've met quite a few really good friends like this, highly recommended. Personally, I find it easy to get to know people in a one-to-one situation, much more difficult in a group. Worst of all when the rest of the group know each other and I'm trying to "break in" - that can really exacerbate feelings of loneliness and being socially useless for me. But everyone's different... 

If you’re seeking a connection, volunteer for something (anything)

If you’re seeking a companion, join a club or take a class.

if you just need to know you’re not alone - well, lots of folk cared enough to reply to your thread  

I don't have any friends to speak of unfortunately.

Old friends just ignore me when I reach out. 

Thank you.

Thank you , that's very kind .

I think I actually deserve to be alone .

This seems to be what the world wants.  That and my speedy demise

I guess there's a difference between the loneliness of being single, and that of solitude. The building of a social network can take time, and finding people one connects with in the sense of having something in common and getting the sense they actually care about your well-being can be an exploratory process too, it's a lucky mixture to find, and it's lovely when one does. Small steps and being brave can go a long way. 

I'm so depressed about the whole situation that I now struggle to motivate myself to interact with others.  

I don't feel like I'm worth anything in myself let alone anyone wanting to bother talking to me.

Thank you though

It sounds like you're depressed, might be dealing with depression. Having been there myself, it lies to people and tells them that they're worthless and awful. Probably go and see your doctor if you find it hard to motivate yourself to change things.

I have my episodes,   less frequent but still occurring.

Agreed,   Its like a playful puppy bringing me horrible thoughts and opinions about myself and placing them right at my feet,   giving a yelp and saying .   Look at this you w@nker , that's why people hate you.

Done this several times over they years but nobody really cares and I don't do SSRI's

If it continues I'll just start starving myself again next until it passes.

This sometimes works when I can't fight it anymore.    a small measure of self harm gives a small measure of control

Therapy. Seriously. You need to explore these thoughts and beliefs in a safe environment with someone experienced and professional. I'd advise a counselling psychologist specialising in Schema Therapy. Note a counselling psychologist is not a counsellor but a full doctorate differing from a clinical psychologist in their approach. This is what my wife does.

Friends, acquaintances etc will not be enough to shift this. Your beliefs will hamper you in getting to the place where you feel worthy of friendship.

I take SSRI's because they help to keep me being a functional human. Without going into the details, my early life possibly stacked the odds towards me having more of a chance of needing to take them. I plan to experiment with tapering off them at some point when I'm feeling more secure with how my life is shaped, but I feel no shame in taking them, or like it's a failing in any sense. My perspective is that a lot of people drink regularly, or take certain drugs, and mine just comes in the form of a legal pill.

I can't say too strongly how helpful you may find it to take them. 

I second Timmd's post here. I'm pretty much decided on being on Sertraline (an SSRI) for life now - I'm just better at life on it, and whenever I stop there is a slow decline back to deep depression and suicidal thoughts. Is there a reason you don't like/want to take them?

I view it that if I feel this way its because of my failings as a person and character and as such I deserve to feel this way as its my doing.  

Why pretend its anything other than what it is ?

I either work/struggle through it and become stronger as a result or sink horribly.

Today I can't shift the feeling that I'm worthless/ repulsive/selfish/nothing to offer anyone.

I can tell its getting bad when I start musing about suicide.

Remember that the exact same facts about the world and about your life can appear completely different depending on your state of mind. As others have said, you sound depressed, in which case your view will be distorted and not accurate. Sounds worth going to your GP, and it could be worth considering medication - even if you just see it as an experiment (it's a very interesting one!).

Best of luck, it's not easy. But nor does it have to be permanent. Meditation, SSRIs and CBT are all clinically effective treatments - if one doesn't work  move on to the next.

None of us are perfect dude, but remember that depression can make one focus on faults, and create failings which don't exist, too.

Becoming stronger sounds like a cheerier thing in the end to me.  

Feeling for you...  it can be really hard.

1) talk to a GP or self refer to a counselling service. Meds may be a short term or long term solution. Therapy could be really helpful

2) reach out to old friends and family... they too may be looking for a chat, trips put etc.  Depending on your age... old friends may bw going through lifr changes (all friends pairing off, friends having kids, seperation, divorce, retirement, widower)

3) Sports clubs or volunteering . I always say these are ready made social networks. You will have something shared (interest or volunteer role) to start conversations so the pressure is less

4) dont get caught up witht the belief that everyone is always out and about and busy with loads of friends. This isnt the case. Social media is a bugger for this but it has been around a lot longer. People will generally talk about nice, noteworthy interesting things that have happened and leave out the days spent doing normal stuff. This is normal but if you are in a bad place you often dont adjust for this and you just focus on the bits of peoples lives that make you feel shit about yours. ..Try and keep your expectations in check.

5) Fake it till you make it. Im not naturally sociable and most often would be happy sitting working in a corner and coming home and staying in when not doing something active. But i know for mw own health and wellbeing (and to get on in work) i have to be more outgoing and chatty. Ive had to work at this and push myself into being chattier whwn out and at work

6) Dont drink alone. You may not and other people may be fine drinking alone but if ypu are in a bad place, alcohol is a depressant and will only make things worse.

I know , I keep telling myself this but it's far off in the distance and not much defence today.  Where as the other me with the brain stick wont stop smacking me with it.

I've done these in the past.   Not any CBT though.  I have books on the subject.

That's probably not even remotely close to reality. The people who really are worthless failures tend to strut about the place telling everyone how great they are and shitting on everyone else. A more credible explanation for your misery is that your prone to depression.

I sympathise with the view that just masking the reality of the facts of your life with drugs is pointless. But once you become depressed you lose the ability to change the facts and everything goes into a downward spiral. What a course of SSRIs can do is free you from seeing the world through the shit-tinted spectacles of depression for a bit, during which time you may be able to get your arse into gear and make some changes. It's worked for millions of other people, it's worth considering seriously. And it's only going to take a few weeks to find out if it works for you. 

You feel that way because of your brain chemistry, and that's NOT your fault. It's like thinking it's your fault if you catch a cold.

Go to your GP. Take the drugs.

Thank you.   I know I'm a pain .

Perhaps .

I don't have any friends as such (maybe 2 ) Old friends don't talk to me . Because I'm worthless and selfish

Difficult at the moment, but I agree.  

Problem at the moment is I feel so worthless either justifiably or not that I cant initiate and social interaction.

I gave up FB about 8 years ago.  I only do UKC and quite often disappear from time to time when I can't cope with it.

This is hard ,  it feels difficult just to keep breathing at times.

I gave up alcohol new years eve .   So I can't even get slaughtered to forget my predicament. 

Very true words, pills got me from living at home with my parents and hardly leaving the house, to being independent (if not financially yet) and having stabs at holding down work, and gradually making a network of friends for myself. Only speaking for myself, it wouldn't have happened without the pills.

Even if you don't drink alcohol walk into a "local" pub, order (soft) drink, pick up newspaper and sit at the bar reading it - bar staff/regulars will all say hello, enquire how you are etc.  - and you have your newspaper to fall back on if your not ready to converse.

Always found you (and still do) to be quite pleasant on here.

As others have also advised, join a club - even if your not a "club" person, you can generally take out of them what you want and give back the same.

Good luck.

I know I've already suggested this but, having read your subsequent posts, I'm even more inclined to suggest a road cycling club because on your profile you appear to be fit and strong and to ride a bike.  Riding a road bike is the most controlled expression of self harm that I've ever come across (and that's not my thing by the way) - endless opportunities to beat yourself up in a benign way and to feel good about it afterwards.

If you join a decent club and put some effort in, other people will give generously themselves.  If you work hard on the front of a group, people will be grateful and will thank you for your labours. It's as sociable as you want to make it, but if you don't make waves and work as hard as they do, you will be welcomed.  

It can help to remember how being at a low point is a temporary situation and when your own brain is working against you the good news is that things can only improve. And when you come back, you’ll come back stronger than ever before.

There’s lots of good advice in this thread, medication can help as can volunteering or finding a paid job you’d really enjoy (don’t feel that you have to work for free!!!)

Thanks,  I try but sometimes I think I'm a c£$t

It's hard, from past experience I'm concerned people will only dislike and ostracise me further fuelling my downwards trend.

So I end up going home and getting into bed and doing nothing ,  then hating myself for doing nothing. God help me 

Thank you.

Jon, Timmd, CP and others are spot on here. 

Feelings such as you are experiencing can lead very convincingly into a picture of oneself as undeserving and unloved. This will not be reflective of reality as Jon says, however feels **exactly** like reality when you are the one experiencing it. 

SSRIs and similar absolutely have their place, and as has been said can help one to gain a more balanced perspective, and begin to enjoy life again. 

For me this process was repeated many times before I took the step of seeking out someone to help me, on my own terms. It was not a short fix, but has allowed me to be kinder, and more understanding of myself. No-one is perfect, however the ability to treat oneself with appropriate compassion is a difficult and counter-intuitive skill, especially in the midst of a depressive episode. 

Your most important relationship is the one you have with yourself, and it sounds as if you need to heal that a little. You're doing the right thing in reaching out - it takes a lot of guts to do so. Please keep doing that, and don't give up.

Luke

Yes I'm in better shape now than any other point of my life.

Pity that being as it's not being put to any good use .

I couldn't afford a road bike though .

I have my MTB and all the bike treking stuff .  I just don't go anywhere much nowadays as I don't have anyone to do it with .

In fact I do nothing sociable .

Try to find some way to get perspective on yourself, and your life. You need this perspective - to be able to see without the blinders on and to see where you are headed, and whether it will take you to where you want to go. It could be someone else's perspective (hence the suggestions for therapists and whatnot), or it could be from yourself. You will not gain this perspective by staying at home, or at work, and following old routines - you might gain it from meditation, you might gain it from hiking or climbing, you might gain it from funny mushrooms, you might gain it from going to the sea and thinking for days.

It's hard, but try your best to remember that even if the good things you do feel futile - many drops eventually fill a bucket. This is especially important when you feel you have no willpower.

You say you feel selfish, and that this is one of the key reasons why you don't feel worth much. Well why don't you become a selfless person, so that you can gain the approval of your deeper self? It will be hard work, but you will likely feel extremely satisfied. Volunteer at a food bank, do something about climate change (even if you're just cleaning plastic up from a beach, or a park), help out at an animal sanctuary, etc. Deep down I think you know what you need to do, and just need to find the courage to do it.

I have been quite good of late in regards to this .   This is what makes this change so unwanted and upsetting.

Wise words

Apart from Selvmord.

I want to know what's wrong with me , why am I so horrible that people hate me . Why I'm alone all the time , what have I done to be so despised.   

I know all the answers  , so why am I asking ?

I'm in a pretty good place right now, but even so I think I would find this very difficult to do.  I can't speak for the OP, but I don't think this would help me at all.  Much better, I think, to join a club, volunteer, etc., as recommended elsewhere and meet people in the course of working towards some common goal.  There is an immediate sense of camaraderie there that you won't find propping up the bar.

Wild Scallion - I have nothing to add to the advice  offered in this thread from those who know much more about this thing that me.  But let me add my best wishes in dealing with your black dog.  You strike me as a good egg on here, your view from the dark place in which you find yourself just now is very distorted.

Depression is sh1t.  It lies to you.   Please go to the doctor or IAPT.  

I'm on SNRIs they work better for me that SSRI.  Ymmv.  

Thinking that antidepressants are a bad idea is probably part of the depression.  

Hope things improve soon. Send me an email if you want.  I had support on here when I needed it and I'm happy to pay it along.  

I used to go to a coffee shop, I didn't want to talk to anyone but it got me out of the house.  

Volunteering helped me a lot, it gave me confidence in myself, and I learnt things through it, and ended up making some friends to, and learning about myself. 

Whereabouts, roughly, are you in the country?  

Yes, it can definitely be a good thing. I only put in the adjunct about paid work because once I got stuck volunteering for years when I could have been earning and moving on in my life. It was really great for a while though!

Volunteering gives you sense of self worth, and if it's something you are interested in it's both interesting and fun. It also gives you the opportunity to meet and mix with people. 

It beats sitting at home on your own wondering what to do and gives you an interest.

Try it! The National Trust and other such organisations are always looking  for volunteers. Like most charities they really need help, can't afford to pay for a large staff, and really appreciate and rely on their volunteers.

Please, please, please try and look at all the posts up this thread that offer, help, advice or simply encouragement. Although it's no comfort please realise your situation isn't unique, and you can get through this.

What seems to be wrong with you is you're extremely depressed, and you're constantly attacking yourself as a result if that. What you think are the answers to your question aren't.

You are not horrible, you are not hated. You just need a little help. If you were anemic, or you had an illness due to vitamin deficiency you could take a supplement to rectify it.Trust me, this is exactly the same. You just need that change in chemistry to see a little more cleary and start to come back from this slowly.

Volunteering or joining a club may be a bit beyond you at present, (like deepsoup I probably wouldn't like to do that), but for now just concentrate on the first small step.

You'd never belittle anyone the way your illness is making you belittle yourself. Please be kind to yourself and get help, however impossible that may feel right now.

What's wrong with you (for whatever worth some random chump's opinion is!) is that you are trapped in destructive, cyclical thought patterns, which keep your brain in an unhappy state. Often when people become very depressed, they will gravitate towards whatever control mechanisms they have, and one subconscious way of maintaining control is to self-sabotage, which it sounds like you are doing to yourself. Why would you treat yourself worse, than some random stranger?

You've likely done nothing bad (I mean you don't kick dogs do you? You don't litter do you? You don't steal bicycles do you?), and are mis-taking when people seem uninterested in you to be a fault of yours, when really they're just too focused on themselves and the quest for the next 'like' that they don't notice. To be brutally honest, it sounds like you have under-invested in the past few years maintaining your friendships and forming new ones, and you've realized only when you needed them. Don't worry - this can be fixed! It's easy to make new friends, and as a silver lining - when you try and rekindle old friendships, you'll quickly figure out which ones are going to work and which won't. Once you get back on your feet, you can vow never to make this mistake again.

I also often worry that I piss people off, and I'm sure I do. Despite best efforts, I often come across as a braggart, aloof dickhead or a smart alec or some combination thereof. The important thing to remember is that no-one is perfect, and you don't need to be perfect to have friends. As long as you are willing to put in at least (eventually and on average) what you want to receive from a friendship, and you have something (anything) in common - that's all you need. For now you will just have to trust the overwhelming majority of folks replying here who say that you're worth being friends with.

Having been there myself on several occasions (and still do), I recognise the 'stuckness' that low mood and depression can lead to. I recognise that proactively doing something positive (however small) to help the situation, is almost impossible when struggling with a seemingly self-perpetuating cycle of introspection.

Given that such introspection anchors me down so effectively into my shell, I've slowly realised that there is little choice but to try and change my relationship with it. It has slowly dawned on me that destructive introspection comes about as a result of 'overthinking' and 'catastrophising', leading to self-hatred and a profound, disabling fear of anything external.   

Changing that relationship, while not easy or instant, really is an effective way to diminish the devastating effects of negative introspection. It works by changing the way you look at negative thoughts, to the point where you become an observer of them, rather than being directly affected by them. It starts by focussing on feelings, sounds, scents etc which are happening around you at that instant (no future or past thoughts allowed!). It takes some getting used to, but I can tell you as someone who now practices it regularly, that it works.

The book "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle explains it in more detail, though I recognise his writing style isn't for everybody:

https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-power-of-now/eckhart-tolle/97803407335...

Please give it a go, and I hope it helps.  

I can't really add much to the good advice above. But it should be clear that many of us have black dogs chasing us now and again. You are not alone in that.

Can I suggest, that whilst the weather is good, go out of the house. Sit in the park or sit in your garden and read a book. Eat a bag of chips, or maybe just a cheese buttie. Enjoy the sun. It's a small thing, but it's something. It's within your control and you can do it now. Start small.

For what it’s worth you always come across on here as an intelligent, engaged, perfectly nice and thoroughly decent person. Serious depression always seems to strike the more thoughtful and sensitive among us and because of this seems a doubley cruel affliction.

Good luck and I truly hope that you get some respite from this soon.

Spot on. The OP could imagine talking to somebody else like he does to himself, along the lines of 'I am a terrible person', and ask why he does that with himself.  Self kindness is essential. He DOES deserve it. 

You've always struck me as a nice enough guy, in posting considered posts on here.  None of us are perfect, and a few of us are awful, it's about remembering that you're Good Enough. 

Derbyshire.  

I know what you mean .  Seeing people with functioning lives having fun probably won't help me today though. I have been planning to try and attempt to go to the local wall haven't been for a year and half.  And Monday is singles night but I'm no company today  at all.  Being alone in a social setting will make me worse.  Seeing what other people have amplifies my destitute moral fibre.  

Deleted the few numbers in my phone even to family.  

Lying in bed trying not to meltdown.

Going to force a protein shake down me as I haven't eaten all day. 

I know what you mean .  Seeing people with functioning lives having fun probably won't help me today though. I have been planning to try and attempt to go to the local wall haven't been for a year and half.  And Monday is singles night but I'm no company today  at all.  Being alone in a social setting will make me worse.  Seeing what other people have amplifies my destitute moral fibre.  

Deleted the few numbers in my phone even to family.  

Lying in bed trying not to meltdown.

Going to force a protein shake down me as I haven't eaten all day. 

Too far for me to be able to help in any meaningful way, i'm afraid but I'll think on....

You're obviously in a place where no attempt seems worthwhile, no risks you take seem to bring reward, where you need a connection but all the lines seem broken.

Except one: here.  I probably don't know you but in truth, I don't know whether I do or not.  Lots of people here use a nom de web - you and me, for starters - but try changing your profile so that it becomes more obvious who you are and where you live, a photo, a general summary of the who what and where about yourself; you may just find that someone wants to get in touch.  That's easy to do, and you don't know what might come of it.

Besides the range of sensible advice given here there are a few strategies you can use to help you connect.  What do you want other people to think about you?  You have to display that behaviour to others first, so if you want them to think you're approachable, approach them; if you want them to think you're amusing, be easily amused; if you want them to think you're a kind-hearted people person, ask about their family, friends, children, what they did at the weekend and how much they enjoyed it, remember their birthdays and so on.  If that sounds a bit much to do all at once, take small steps each time you meet someone, things will get easier as you persevere.

And google thinking errors.  I, when suffering from depression some ten or so years ago, was a bugger for all-or-nothing, catastrophe-type thinking, along with setting standards for myself that were so much higher than I'd expect from anyone else that failure was inevitable.

And keep posting.  Anonymous strangers, and others who aren't anonymous, wish you well, want to help you, will give help without expecting anything in return other than that you get better.

It's a glum place, but there *are* brighter horizons waiting for you and everyone here wants to help you see them.

T. 

Known remedy for depression is to go river/sea bathing - cold water is invigorating. Alternately cold showers at home - only need 60s to work typically at end of a hot shower.

yes, its a rather self-centric place to be; volunteer work / projects would change the focus. An opportunity to care for something or someone else. Think of keeping a dog - frequently less conditional than human muts  and otherwise good for interaction when you take it out for walks.    

I seem to remember you offering me some advice on here just before I moved to Derby about areas to live which I found really helpful, your posts on here seem to indicate that you are a generally sound bloke who I'd be happy to tie on a rope or have a beer with. I've done the whole depression thing before, frankly it's a pile of shit and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, I was never given drugs, however the counselling I received was REALLY helpful.

I'm still based in Derby, if you want to go for a drink or go climbing somewhere please feel free to drop me a message (a mountain bike ride is also an option, although I'm not enormously fast).

I find that going for a swim before work really helps me too.

Yes most definitely the case presently.

Yes I need to unbutcher my profile.  I deleted all my photos and about me earlier today.  Replaced it with negative statements about myself.  I know I'm my own worst enemy.  

I know .  It just seems unsurmountable at the moment.   

That's me all over.  Well certainly one of my characteristics.  

Thank you.  I keep thinking how nice people have been and I should bother anyone .

As an example of just how screwed up thinking can be when you're depressed, here's one of my experiences.

Back when I was suffering, signed off work and all, my other half had to go away for the weekend.  I didn't go with her because I'd have been more obstacle than ornament.  That meant I had to look after myself for the weekend.  Sunday came, and I had in one of the small triumphs of personal planning bought some sausages because I fancied a sausage butty.  I cooked the sausages, and burnt them; and then my world fell apart.  I couldn't even cook sausages, I was useless, I'd never be able to feed myself, I'd have to rely on the goodwill of others for food, they'd get tired of me, I'd eventually starve to death, friendless and alone.

It, to any reasonable person, sounds ridiculous; but to me, at the time, it was very real and I was, for a period of some hours, in complete and abject despair.  And I mean despair, absolutely beyond reach or hope.

What going through CBT taught me was ways to challenge my thinking, and not to wait but to do it immediately, instinctively.  It takes time, and it takes help, but it can be done.  To continue the sausage example, I had more sausages I could have cooked.  I could have gone to the supermarket and got something else.  I could have had a meal out of the freezer.  I could have had a cheese butty instead.  And, and this shows just how much the catastrophic, all-or-nothing, thinking had affected me, I actually like burnt sausages.  I prefer them that way.

I've not forgotten that episode, or the feelings I had afterwards, and it stays in my mind as an example of how to challenge my thinking should I, in moments of fatigue, ever stray back to that way of viewing my world.

You can learn to do the same.

T. 

You are not bothering anyone.  Many of us have been where you are, it’s not good, but it can be managed.  

I can probably get over to Derby one evening if you want to grab a coffee.  I can’t climb right now as a have an injury.  (Nothing serious but I need to let it recover).  However it sounds like you might need to stay in bed for now.  It’s ok if that’s what you need.  FWIW I think I spent nearly 2 weeks mostly in bed at my worst although my memory of it is thankfully blurry.  Sooner or later there comes a point when it’s time to get out of bed and it will come when you are ready. 

Sort your profile out is a good target to try for.  

Hope you’ve managed to eat something.  

Keep posting if you feel worse, or call the crisis team if you need to.  

I'm not one for giving out sympathy, but you do seem in a bad place. Do you know anyone with a Dog ?? If you did, you could take it for a stroll, having something that depends on you for a little while may help and there fun to be around. Other than that, come fishing with me, I get over that way regularly. On second thoughts though, with my recent record at catching anything, maybe coming with me may make you worse. It certainly puts me on a downer at times...........

WS,  I can't offer any great insight, no pearls of hard won wisdom. I can only offer you my best wishes for getting somewhere better.

I've nothing much useful to say but hang there and be kind to yourself. listen to how much support you have on here and take it one step at a time. recently I've found mindfulness an interesting area to explore, there is lots to read about online and insight timer app provides an introduction. good luck and best wishes with it whatever path you follow...

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html

I'm afraid there's nothing I can add to all the kind advice that you've been given but to wish you my sincere best wishes for the future. It will get better however desperate it all appears now.

On a positive  note, I've been touched by the responses you've  had today. Not a bad bunch of folks to call on when things aren't good.

Hi WS, like a few others have said I can't offer any more helpful advice, only positive energy and thoughts for you.  I feel for you my friend.  Keep posting.

Hi WS. I've been negotiating with 'brain stick me' for my whole adult life. Here are the 3 things which have helped me; I hope they may help you.

1. I call this person Self-Hate. It's important to be clear who I am talking with. Self-Hate is a part of me, but I wasn't born with it; I don't believe any child is. I was trained in Self-Hate as a child and came to accept it as part of me. It sits on my shoulder and pours sh1te into my head. Long story.

2. I know what it is and where it comes from, so I watch it and make a plan. For example, I may be late delivering a piece of work. SH says "You're cr@p why bother" and I get depressed try harder and get more stuck. The boss says never mind keep trying. Who is on my side here? Is SH doing _anything_ valuable for me? So I do abs anything that will piss off SH. I do half an hour a day. I take a break. Eventually I get it finished. It may be late and not perfect (who is talking now) but it is done.

3. I need to understand and forgive Self-Hate. This is weird but true. I need to put my arms round its shoulders, reassure it, listen to what it says. But I don't have to act on its advice. If I'm in a good place I can laugh at its shenanigans.

I've tried to keep this light and short. May your god bless you and help you along the path.

FF

Hey buddy,

I can't recommend much more ideas, but if you ever find yourself in the Manchester area  in need of a belay or just to grab a coffee or tea and chat about climbing just drop me a line.

Where are you based (county will do if you don't want to mention towns)? I'm sure between us on ukc we could find someone to take you on an adventure and adventure is the best way I know to reset your thought patterns. I'm in South lakes and I'd be happy to help  

Indeed. I am a strong advocate of Scafell Therapy.

Yeah I saw that the other day. Sick, dude. (I'm not taking the piss, that looks well good.)

There are many ways to appreciate the mountain and feel the emotion of elevation* in response. But however you do it, it's uplifting to the human soul.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion)

I was just stood on a massif ledge taking a photo and it was 'sick' yet paradoxically 'cured' me. hash tag scawfell therapy

I know it doesn't seem it, but that right there is the pretending - you absolutely do not deserve to feel that way. Thats the problem with depression, it gets you thinking up is down, it feels like the mask is lifted and now you understand. You don't, its messing with you - its a disease not a failing. 

Be weak, be sad - those will happen, but don't be guilty - you're the victim

One further thought occured to me about your situation; may be nothing, and even if it's something it should take second place to getting your thinking patterns sorted, but even so.

Have a google around symptoms of Asperger's syndrome in adults.  See if anything relates.

T.

Yes  I've looked before in attempts to self diagnos over the years. 

I think lots of people are somewhere on the aspergers/autism spectrum .  Me included . 

Be it aspergers/autistic tendancies, bipolar disorder,depression, OCD and repeated thought patterns, eating disorders , they all have elements that I could point to . 

I am feeling less manic and emotional and paniced today which is some relief . 

Good to hear from you and that you are feeling a bit better today!

I was lonely all though my young life, especially when I lived in Paris, which is said to be the loneliest city in the world. I don't form attachments easily but when I do they are always solid as I value loyalty very greatly. 

You can take comfort from knowing that as you age you will find it easier and easier to approach people, probably because you will feel you have less to lose. Getting married helps because it takes you out of competition. Bear in mind that shyness is usually mistaken for rudeness. With practice, establishing eye contact end smiling to break the ice becomes easier and easier.

What about your vegetable garden TWS? Do you still have it?

Do you reach out to them like you're reaching out to us? Do they know about your struggles or do you keep them under your hat? Perhaps they simply don't have time in their lives for you (as suggested above) and you simply need to find some new friends that do.  Friends come and go through life. In Germany there's an expression that roughly translated means 'time of life partner'.  The person you have a relationship with in your twenties isn't necessarily the person you should have kids with, and that person isn't necessarily the person you should see out your retirement with. There's probably some undiscovered new friends out there for you.

I'm willing to bet there's someone on here who's secretly feeling the same as you and you should both just get brave, send a message, and go out and do some stuff!

Hi.  All of the responses so far are lovely and helpful, and as a fellow sufferer it's heartening to see so many people get it.

If you're anything like me, in the low periods your brain doesn't let you take anything in that's helpful, because it causes a dissonance against what your brain is telling you.

Hopefully you're feeling better today and over the next few days, and I hope some of these suggestions prove helpful.  

The lows will pass.  They always do.  Sometimes all you can do is ride it out and wait until you're more yourself to look at what you can do to keep them at bay.  I recommend keeping a stash of easy food (things in the freezer, in tins) so that you can keep yourself fed and hydrated without having to put any effort in.  Or if that's too much, is there someone nearby who you can tell when you're struggling and they can make sure you're looking after yourself?  

Listen to so Billy Bragg - he's so miserable that you'll feel relatively happy.

Sing passionately along to an upbeat song played loudly. Do it whilst looking in the mirror - you will laugh at the ridiculousness of it.

Glad you are a little better today.  Feel free to ask me about autism.  Or not. 

I have just read this thread. I am no expert but I have a few things that helped me overcome depression. They may help.

First of all why do you feel this way? I don’t mean “because I’m depressed” or “because I am worthless” but why precisely do you think you are worthless, what are these failings? But most importantly imagine that you are your best friend, that you are giving advice to someone you love. What would you tell that person? How would you comfort them? How would you help yourself if you met yourself?

We are what we think, we make the world around us by our perception of it and that is a very powerful thing. Changing that perception is difficult, like choosing to take a different path through a forest. At first you encounter brambles and thorns, your way is blocked at every turn but over time a new path will form. Changing your perception can be one of the hardest things we do.

Sometimes emotions and feelings that are uncomfortable take hold of us. Roll with them and don't give them purchase. Stand back and view them as mere "things" that come and go like leaves on the wind. Observe them, watch them and let them go. If you fear in your mind that you will fall then fall and embrace the falling (we are talking metaphorically here in case folk are too literal), when you have fallen as far as you can go you will still be there. It is not about “trying” to be happy or “trying” not to feel worthless. It is about doing nothing, not reacting and waiting for that darkness to pass. It might take hours or days or weeks. But until it does do not feed it, cultivate that calm. Calm does not make you happy but it does enable you to deal logically with stuff. Don't try to be happy. It is better to work on being calm. Calm will help you cope with problems and extend happiness by default. All things pass

It is impossible to be happy all the time. We have illnesses, accidents and other troubles, which come to bother us. The trick is to separate the wheat from the chaff, not waste time on the imagined problems and deal calmly and systematically with the real. If you know you are going to feel a lack of energy place items of non-perishable food around your bed to reduce the effort of preparing food.

Also forget other people right now you are the one that needs the help. Friends may help but ultimately they cannot make you happy if you are not happy in yourself.

You are a long time dead. If you can not change the situation change the way you look at it.

Glad that you are feeling better today

Good to know that you and I are on the same page, at least.

The reason autism generally and Asperger's syndrome specifically are on my radar comes from hearing an interview with Gary Numan on Radio 5 earlier this year.  He has Asperger's and spoke about the behaviours it causes in him and some of what he does to counter that.  I listened and what he said sounded familiar enough to make me look into it a little more, as it resonated with some of my own behaviours.

So I, like you, read a bit more about it and very interesting it was too.  On one page, I forget which, there was a list of the types of behaviours that might be expected in those who have Asperger's, along with a note that said everyone's condition manifests itself in a way that is unique to them; no-one shows all these characteristics but these are the sorts of things that are typical.  I read the list and my mind was ticking things off, ' no,  no, yes, no, yes, ye - how did you know about that!  I've never told *anyone* about that!'.  After more reading and a lot of thought I think it's fair to say that I'm on the Asperger's spectrum, it explains a good deal of my childhood past and adult past and present.

And discovering that, and accepting it, actually brought me some inner peace.  I'm in a place in my life where I don't need a formal diagnosis, or the help that could be made available after that, but if I'd found out about it earlier I would have sought both these things.   

Good news.  The strategies Duncan Bourne and lornajkelly suggest are both good ones.  Our minds can be buggers for screwing us around but they also have a facility where you can, if you try, set a bit of your mind to one side to calmly watch the rest of it as it flounders miserably and then, once the storm has abated, help pick up the pieces.  Having food to hand that's easy always helps; bread, cheese, eggs, cereal, milk, fruit, bags of 'washed and ready to eat' salad are all good things for simple, easy and sometimes healthy meals (though not necessarily if you make cheese on toast like my wife does.  She tells me that there's bread under there somewhere...).  And the lows, the rough times, do pass; black clouds may not have silver linings but beyond and above them the sun shines in a sky of clear alpine blue.  The bit of your mind that you set to one side to watch knows this, and can guide you there after it's watched the black clouds pass.

Blimey, the things I've written here to share with you and everyone else that reads them are things I've never actually admitted to anyone else.  But I'm glad you were feeling better today.

T.

more love for you Wild Scallion - you aren't alone!

Good morning everyone ,

Thank you to all the thoughtful replies to my posts.   It means a lot to me.

I'm still feeling a bit sh1t but I have improved some more since yesterday. My mind doesn't feel so much like a twisted and broken road this morning (things are more stationary).  I had to have a day from work to get my mind straight.

And thank you to all the the  personal emails people sent to me offering support and some outdoors adventures.

I'm in desperate need of those.   I break up for Summer on the 20th of July and need to get out more than ever.

Mat (TWS)

Morning! Glad you're feeling a bit better, you have a lot of people here who have been where you are, please keep in touch!

Sometimes I wonder why I keep using the UKC forums and this thread is a great example of why.

It was a very brave step to come on and seek advice and I think the response has justified the courage taken. A lot of the advice to TWS can be applied more widely, least not to myself.

I wish TWS well and all others struggling. 

TWS, my first post advised seeking therapy and I would repeat this, even if you are feeling somewhat better. Take some steps when you are feeling more capable and they will pay dividends in future.

'Indeed' about therapy, the older I get the more I see how helpful seeing a certain therapist was. It was life changing in a very positive way.

Will do - Thank you