UKC

After much stress and anguish I finally dropped off my daughter at Uni today. A non red-brick but well respected new uni. She had planned to do law a year ago but with COVID19 and other pre existing anxieties, she has opted for a course in social policy and sociology. She feared law after much thought,  really wanted to go and the tutor was inspiring. I realise many will be stuffy about this course but it suited her and her current direction.

She arrived today, anxious but steady compared to last year.

Anyhow we left, she settled in. All good. Her halls are a new build. 8-10 apartments around a large common area. She was sat with a group of 5 new arrivals each discussing their courses and, as you expect, awkwardly sizing each other up. A young lad, 19, privately educated and at the med school made a comment that a 'gay' was joining their floor too and next thing you know their will be a 'black'. My daughter, stunned, also gay/bisexual, admitted she is also gay (not wise in my view so soon, but she can be impulsive and defensive), he then went on the attack, saying you'll amount to nothing and be on the dole when you're done.*

To say I'm heartbroken/apoplectic is an understatement. But what should I do? My initial reaction is to charge down there and beat the living shite from him but that won't help. She wont want that too. 

I realise she has to stand alone but Im genuinely stunned and feel the need to act. It has been a monumental task getting her there and is costing me a small fortune this first year for the halls. I just hoped we'd seen the back of many troubled years.

What do you think I can do?

*Not sure if anyone else was stunned or stood up to this clown.

Is she in the expensive halls? Cause that's where all the public school tw*ts tend to be.

IF, IF that was my daughter I would just [1] show her support when I was in touch with her, and [2] tell her I was proud of her for speaking up

Honestly, 19 is old enough to know that this sort of behaviour isn't on, especially if you've got yourself into medical school. You can't just dismiss this as doing something daft after 10 pints and someone getting a tray of shots.

Depends. Your gut reaction is completely understandable even if it's not really the right thing to do (Let's face it, if he carries on like this chances are somebody in the same building will do what you suggest sooner or later...)

Your daughter could make a complaint to the med school/whatever university organisation is appropriate but the consequences may be lifelong for the idiot. Then again, as I said, 19 and a med student is old enough and smart enough to know better and accept consequences.

Its an unpleasant situation and it's a tough moment leaving uour kids at university but....she is there and you need to let her sort these things out herself, it's part of developing resilience and independence....sit back a bit and see how she gets on....

The uni will presumably have a LGBT club or organisation. Tell her to get in touch with them for advice and help/support in educating her housemates. 

TBH like you I'm shocked at such an outspokenly prejudiced attitude from a fellow student.

If his racist/homophobic attitude is an ongoing problem then I am sure the students Union will be able to provide support and advice, as may her accommodation manager. They will have policies on how to deal with abusive behaviour.

Edit - as others have said, whilst you can give support and advice, in the first instance let her deal with it herself. I would expect that the others were equally outraged at his comments, even if not confident enough to challenge him - and I'm sure if anyone has lost potential friends over this it will be him not her.

Yes

Edit: for personal reasons we needed to have her own ensuite.

Which we'll do. 

I cant fight her battles forever and tw*ts are a fact of life but this is just the kind of thing which could have her spiral again. Ive had years of this and we thought we had reached a tipping point.

Something else to consider is suggesting your daughter checks if she can access well-being support like this:

https://www.brighton.ac.uk/brighton-students/your-student-life/my-wellbeing...

Not suggesting for one moment that she might need it, but in my experience the vast majority of Uni staff and students loathe homophobic and racist attitudes and it might be worth flagging it with them now in case it becomes a bigger problem. 

Uni halls all seem to be expensive these days. Every room has to be "luxury" (or at least advertised as such) with en suite etc. Without wanting to get all monty python, we had 1 shower and 2 toilets for a flat of 7 and although not luxury we all survived quite happily and had a good time. First year tudent living isn't really about sitting in your luxury room, should really be trying to spend as much time as possible outside it. Most of the private student HMOs were worse that the first year halls.

He sounds an utterly nasty piece of work, and I'd happily join you in beating the entitled little tw*t...

However, being sensible, you probably have to step back and support your daughter in her decisions. As for approaching the Med school / university, I don't have a problem with that. He's clearly immature and unfit to be in any role where he has the chance to assert his authority. Her contacting the Student Union/LGBT group probably isn't a bad idea.

He needs stamping on (metaphorically) immediately. He's already started on racist and homophobic abuse, what's he going to do next?

I really hope it works out all right

Definitely the hardest thing I've ever done in my life was leaving our daughter in the UK to start ubiversity age 17 (she skipped a year of secondary).... then flying thousands of miles to our home. She was OK but probably only just

It was so hard, though I knew we had to let go in a way

No connection to your story, sorry, just remembering back myself

The university will have a very strict policy to deal with this chap, tell your daughter that if it continues she should call it in to the university. I'd be very surprised if any of her other flatmates tolerate this shit so he's going to find himself very isolated and hopefully he'll soon realise the error in his ways. If the worst happens there's normally the possibility of moving flats without losing money.

Buy her a taser for an early Christmas present.

If she is in university accommodation she should report him for being an absolute end of the bell.  If the university don't have a policy for this then she should report him for being a homophobic, racist (c...) individual.  It would probably be best to report him with the support of her friends.  

It is a real shame that she has to live around people like this but unfortunately it is not uncommon.  

What a nasty bit of work he sounds, fortunately your daughter has got her own space and need have nothing more to do with him. I'm sure she will soon meet up with and make friends with students on her own courses. Just because she is in the same hall as the immature idiot doesn't mean she is required to socialise or have any further contact with him. Medics have a high failure rate, so hopefully he won't be around for long.

What happened is totally unacceptable. The university Students Union will have an LBGTQ+ officer; I'd suggest your daughter contact them regarding her experience; she can also report it to the Halls of Residence, and speak with her personal tutor for advice (but the personal tutor may recommend the SU - it's probably what I'd do as a personal tutor, but also discuss whether she wanted to report it formally to the University and the Halls). But it has to be her decision as to what direction she wants to go.

Intolerance of this kind coming from a medical student, even an immature 19 year old, is upsetting and disappointing, but I don't think there's anything you can or should do yourself other than supporting her.

Yes, definitely this!

She’s wiser than the both of us.

Good on your daughter, she sounds as though she can handle herself and if there is one place she will be supported in this it is at uni even if unpleasant and shocking to hear at first.

This is reprehensible behaviour and the university will advise via your daughters personal tutor and bullying and harassment should not be tolerated. Awful. I hope she realises that she has been honest and open and he is just a ……..

Suggest to her that she laugh at him, get out her phone and smilingly ask him to repeat his comments while she films him. If he’s stupid enough to repeat himself she can happily distribute it to the uni authorities, his tutors, classmates and on social and let him reap his own whirlwind. 

I’d think he’ll baulk and back down, realising that he’s been called-out as a tw@t

Not much to add beyond the other comments.  Encourage and support her but try to let her make her own decisions.  Difficult I imagine - I'm not there yet in age with mine!

IMO this is first and foremost a case of a bully and bullying behaviour that will clearly fall under their bullying/harassment policy for students.  You can encourage your daughter to look for that policy - it's likely the students will all be asked to sign against it in the coming days.  This will spell out what is not acceptable conduct, and what the options are both to the person who experienced it and to anyone who witnessed it.

It's very frustrating for her and you that's she's run in to an A-grade bully on day 0.  Beware of bullies like this, they can turn the charm on and lie their face off convincingly to others.  If she can be guarded in her interactions so she doesn't give the bully more fuel that is probably wise.

There may be a "listeners" service at her institution where she can meet with someone to discuss the incident, not to trigger any formal action but to get comments from a person with a good understanding of institutional policies who can signpost her on her options.

The racist and homophobic comments will fall foul of other university policies, but I think the bullying is the core issue and the core approach to take for any follow up.

I would encourage her to write a concise and precise log of the incident for herself - not for sharing right now.  Two reasons:

1. Writing it down may be cathartic and help her park the incident more out of her thoughts, rather than regularly revisiting it to make sure the memory remains clear
2. If this goes on to be a pattern of behaviour, a full log could have some evidentiary value to the internal panel that will investigate it.

100%

This isn't a got blotto-said/did stupid stuff-finished night peeing on a war memorial ended up ruining life-type poor decision making but seriously nasty behaviour from a future health professional. 

Sorry to hear that. I know from last year how hard it can be for students and parents when they start uni as my daughter was terribly homesick for a couple of days. She did settle in quite quickly though so try not to worry too much. Your daughter’s response is something to be proud of I reckon. With any luck she’s made the tw*t think twice before gobbing off. Best wishes. 

I doubt it. He will find others with the same mind set. There are lots of intolerant racist homophobic arse holes and they always manage to find each other and re affirm their beliefs. 

Silver lining is at least she found out on day 1 and doesn't waste any time befriending the prick. 

Also look on line on the university web site for bullying and harassment.  There will be information. Providing a safe and supportive environment isn't just nice, it is the law and most of us (university staff) are having repeated training in this area and students often are given training in this area as well as other areas such as consent. As a personal tutor I would be inwardly fuming, but your daughter is an adult, and must make her own decisions.

In my limited experience of dealing with such similar situations the member of staff looking after the hall (if there is one) can be a good person for your daughter to speak to, they have years of experience of people rubbing up against each other at all kinds of levels from the minor to more serious things like this. They also have the advantage of being not part of one particular faculty or department and often collect complaints about people in accommodation. 

I am incredulous that someone could say this, then that someone in a university of all places could say this, then that a medical student of all students (ethics?) and lastly in week 1, night 1?  Just jaw dropping.  Nothing to add to the good advice from above (Welsh Kate nailed it of course).

I'd imagine this clown will be served his own just deserts very shortly when he realises he has irrevocably alienated everyone he lives with (though on reflection this could lead to further poor behaviour) and by the same token your daughter will feel supported and respected as she realises that others have her back on this and it's him living outside the norms not her.

She 'could' report him, which you could explore with her as an option. I might suggest she see what other students thought of him saying that, which will likely mean that she finds they're in her corner, which would be an affirming thing. Tell her that you're proud of her, and that he's the one who feels bad about himself if he needs to degenerate others, and maybe tell her 'Don't let the bastards grind you down' ?

It's not the most spiritual advice, but as advice from my Dad it's been pretty handy during those certain moments I've needed it for the short term, some people are, and that racist homophobe is - until she feels settled enough to not mind about him. 

Edit: It generally follows that homophobic men are in denial about  their own homosexuality, or an aspect of their sexuality, and I read something about how racists don't perceive reality as it is, it strikes me that a part of being more confident or less ruffled by life is not taking things personally, which is something I used to do all the time. Talking about it not being about her but his own insecurities and fears (of the unknown and his personal/emotional vulnerability) might also help?

I've noticed a funny correlation where homophobia and racism and sexism seem to be grouped in the same person, it's definitely plausible that he's 'out of tune' with himself and life, it's important that gay and bi (and other) people know in their heart that it's never about them.

Good luck to your daughter who'll likely be fine, and to you not worrying.

Hey folks. Thanks for the comments. Im slightly less angry now. I'll see how the next few days pan out and I'll share these remarks with her mum and if there are any repeats we'll suggest that she makes some more formal moves.

We have already advised her to keep a detailed log.

Eh, It's university, the idiots like that should be heavily outnumbered by the open-minded people so I would imagine he should be easily-enough ignored (I'm guessing the 8-10 apartments means at least 30+ students in the common area). Especially when he is going to have so many other people at the uni to hate on and so few others to back him up. If uni is anything like it was when I were a lad, he will be the one who ends up becoming isolated and socially excluded.

I can't say I've ever had to deal with discrimination again me however (except the architectural type where absolutely everything is built for little people rather than proper-sized folk like me), so I'm not exactly commenting from a position of authority on the matter.

If he was in the same apartment as your daughter, I would say it was something to keep an eye on and make sure you take note of anything unreasonable done so that if it ever came to a formal complaint, you have evidence to back up your end.

Ofc, if your daughter is feeling magnanimous, she could try and find out where this aberration in his personality comes from. Uni age kids are still young enough to mostly have flexible beliefs and debating with someone who holds a die-hard opposition to your beliefs is a key skill!

Always be available at the other end of a phone. The need to call home can occur at 3pm or 3 am, and it's extremely comforting to know that the phone will always be answered.

There have been some great responses here about how your daughter can handle this situation, but it is her situation to handle (you can of course offer to help if she would like). Starting university is hard enough without people like this - luckily most students are very open-minded and accepting so hopefully it'll be a very rare occurrence. There should be someone in-charge of the halls (either an older student or staff member) who she can turn to, it may be possible to change flats or find another alternative. Turning to the SU or a personal tutor are also valid options - they really are there to help and care immensely about student welfare. Attitudes like this kid has shown are a fast-track route to getting into bother with the university - it has no place.

Starting university is tough, but it gets easier - the first couple of weeks are the toughest. Joining societies is the best way to meet like-minded people outside of the course cohort. Hopefully this experience will become a distant memory and your daughter will have a great university experience.

It can be empowering to formulate a defence of oneself based on logic and reason against another person's emotional blockage, too, so that after explaining how the way oneself happens to be as a human, is perfectly fine, they're left with not a lot to say. With differences in sexuality, that's found in animal species too (which makes it natural), and something is only immoral if it harms another person, or lots of people (which makes it harmless). 

It can sometimes be a process one needs to go through, learning to speak back, but she shouldn't have to ideally...

Wigwams be wigwams.

It's a lesson you learn in life sadly.

He's apparently intelligent and confident, but she still identified him as a dickhead immediately. I'd be proud. Some people would be impressed and mate with these kind of people, you can be relieved that that's very unlikely. 

Universities are huge, diverse and have many different circles. Halls, unions, clubs, societies, departments and sports. Hopefully, she can get out there and meet lots of folks. There will be hundreds, if not thousands of nice people in a similar situation. 

I met a small group of friends in my college almost on day one. I then got lazy. I regret not making more social connections across the university during my time there. 

Echoing SouthernSteve's comment about the member of staff looking after the halls. Most halls will have a warden: usually a junior academic, most often a PhD student nearer in age to the undergraduates but still from their point of view a senior figure of authority. The warden usually lives in the halls and because it's not so long since they were an undergrad themselves, is likely to be a good listener/advisor. Plus they'll keep an eye on things. It's the warden who has to go around the halls sorting things like late-night noise out: they're the person on the ground who will nip things in the bud.

By all means have her talk to her personal tutor, who will likely be a more senior academic living off-site. It's worth her personal tutor knowing about not because they'll intervene, but because they'll be aware of it as a possible factor should she start to feel *academically* unhappy.

And a wildcard plot-twist possibility... prepare yourself for your daughter's surprise news, in about 3 weeks' time, that the clown is actually an ok guy, none of it was meant in earnest, and they're now seeing each other. More likely they'll settle down into a pattern of cordial mutual enmity, which is in itself a useful learning experience; but often the week 1 loudmouth show-offs turn out to be the students who are really frightened and having problems adjusting to their new environment, and it's exposure to people like your daughter that helps them to change and grow.

The friends I made on day 1 (28 years ago!) are still my friends now, a great group of people who I don't see very often (we're spread across the country now) but when we do it's always good. Just lovely people. I really got on with my roommate too (by sheer luck I guess - we were put together because we were both smokers) and he's one of the best people I know.

There were certainly some d"ckheads at uni, nobody quite as awful as the person the OP mentioned, but they were fortunately few and far between.

I really hope the OP's daughter soon settles and this unfortunate person comes to their senses and realises what a knob they are (which I like to think may be possible).

"A young lad, 19, privately educated and at the med school made a comment that a 'gay' was joining their floor too and next thing you know their will be a 'black'. "

There is not a school in the country, private or state, where these views or his behaviour are acceptable. There are nonetheless hateful individuals in all schools. (I suspect the far right don't recruit exclusively from private schools.) He is a racist homophobe. Report him to the university authorities and possibly the police.

Edit: Letting him say enough things for him to get himself in trouble with without recourse might be a plan, a few instances with a handful of witnesses each, a pattern of behaviour is worse than once - less arguably 'a misunderstanding'. It's up to the OP's daughter and other students of course, he can't be nice to be around, they may not want to wait...

I haven't read the whole thread, so someone may have said similar, but I think his view is a minority view and I think the rest of the student populace will quickly tell him such views aren't on. Maybe your daughter is bolder than the rest in doing it so soon, but I think he will find himself very much not finding many supporters of his views amongst young people. Even in my uni days, this would have been very much considered unacceptable, and that was 20 years ago now. 

It sounds like your daughter is a strong young woman who knows how to speak her mind. I strongly suspect she will find a group of friends who are supportive and decent people.

That's all right. I'm f*cking livid for you.

What a shame her fellow housemates didn't call this dickhead out. Even when i started uni in 1982, that would have been bang out of order, i think. Congrats to your daughter for standing up to him.

Good advice on the thread re contacting the SU. Hopefully, they will take it up with hall warden and personal tutor, asking permission first.

It's bullying and should be reported, either to the hall warden (or the university's accommodation office), her personal tutor, or the student union. 

To expand a little on my short post. It's bullying because his comments, as well as expressing racism and homophobia, were intended to demean and intimidate your daughter - you even say he went on the "attack." She should not have to tolerate or live with that. 

There are quite a few people saying things along the lines of: there are tw*ts everywhere/he'll find himself outnumbered/he'll learn/he'll back down/developing some resilience is part of growing up. I don't agree. It's astounding and worrying that he was willing to express himself so openly and so early with people he barely knows (for example, he obviously didn't know about your daughter's sexuality, not that learning about it caused him to backdown or apologise). The only lesson he's learned so far is that he can behave like this with impunity. He will probably only get worse. I think he should face some consequences - and more than a quiet chat. Personally, I would want to see him moved out of that accommodation, at the very least. 

Reporting him would be a big step and I would understand if your daughter doesn't want to do that yet. You should counsel her in that decision and support her whichever way she decides. If she decides to report him she will have to undertake that process herself as she is an adult and you cannot be directly involved, but obviously you should be there to offer advice and support throughout.

I write as an academic who has been personal tutor to probably hundreds of students over a 20+ year career, and as a parent who has seen two children through university.

Once again, thanks for the comments everyone. Needless to say, mum and I had a worrying night but I have shared the thread with mum and will summarise it for daughter so she has thoughts on both positive and more formal routes to tackle, avoid and generally get on better with uni as a whole. 

I didnt go as a youngster, opting to return as a mature working student so I didn't go through the machine.

Thinking about how I'd deal with him, would probably have ended up with a good row or worse so its good to have a common sense viewpoint.

Where's she gone to university?  The 1870s?

I hope and trust that she'll soon be surrounded by good friends, and the most people at university will have the strength of character to call out bigoted views like this.

remembering how stupid and ignorant I was when I first went to university having been exposed only to a single sex school I'd be inclined to a little more charity.

If the behaviour is repeated or looks persistent definitely confront and take down but he may just be a little boy who's fitted in with shit views at his school and hasn't grown up - perhaps needs to be shown how he appears to others.  At that age it is possible both to be very self conscious and also ignorant of how we seem to others despite worrying about it.

But, this all depends on whether these are his firm views or not.

The least one could do is to quietly and calmly tell him to grow up in front of his peers

I think you've a point here - there could well be an element of "scared teenager making outrageous statements for attention and reaction" about it all. 

Report the motherf*cker, this sort of behaviour leads to disciplinaries at the very least.

I couldn't help wondering if he went to school here.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/colchester-royal-grammar-sc...

If my experience of current undergrads. is typical, he is probably in the best place to be educated. I will probably be swift and  (verbally) brutal for him. 

I'd like to build on your post to give my view that following a formal process over their conduct  is offering them that charity; I would expect the people handling an allegation of a first incident like this to be well aware of the angles you, rj_townsend, bruxist and RobAJones  have raised against the flow of the conversation.  They would approach the student with an open mind, fully aware of the diverse range of backgrounds that their new intake of undergraduates come from, and they have probably had more difficult conversations over more fraught interactions which have ended with people learning and developing, supported by the kindness of the complainant.  Conversely sometimes it becomes clear that there's a serious, hard to resolve issue at the bottom of it, and the evidence from the process will speed up the more permanent resolution if the issue manifests again.

People often try and bury things to avoid a formal process, out of the view it's the charitable or right thing to do.  Perhaps, for some, that formal process could have been the warning shot across their bows that helped them change their conduct - and views - before they cross some irrevocable line.  

In the most extreme instance I've seen, perhaps if formal processes had been followed at multiple earlier opportunities I wouldn't have ended up in the awkward situation of giving a tutorial to a group of students whilst men in suits and purple nitrile gloves kept walking past the door going one way with empty zip-lock bags and then going back with full bags and piles of computers, whilst the chief fixer sat on the waiting chair outside my office scowling and furiously typing on their blackberry.  

I would never suggest someone follow formal processes to help the other person, they need to act for themselves.  But, if someone is avoiding a formal process because they worry it could harm the other person's future choices, I do like to raise the possibility that the feedback it will offer them in a serious setting at least gives them the opportunity to improve their future choices.  

The OPs story did not stand out to me against things I've observed over the last 20 years and particularly the last 10 at a different place.

Indeed.  

Unfortunately, they may well find enough similar minded people through one of a couple of societies and find strength in their grouping.  

My daughter had a similar experience with an entitled w*nker in her first uni flat.

He was frozen out and at the end of the first year couldn't find anyone who wanted to share a rented house with him - he lived in halls (eventually as some sort of warden) for the rest of his time there.

I tend to agree, and didn't mean to suggest that, it shouldn't be taken seriously.

I do however, have slightly less confidence that the formal process will always proceed as expected. If that OFSTED report is correct, some of the attitudes accepted are horrific. Unfortunately,  I have to accept, that although they will be a small minority, it is unlikely to be the only school like this. My eldest niece has been part of the protests at Warwick, from other reports I have read, I think that logic can be applied to Universities as well as Schools.

Don't worry; nor did I take your comment that way.  

Sometimes they really don't, but with a university there are many different contact points; if someone feels a process has really not gone as intended or expected I hope they run it past one of those.

I'll bey you good money that it isn't.

Certainly other universities are making the news at the moment over failures to tackle bullying in the staff culture.  These things are supposed to flow down from the top in organisations, it doesn't always work out that way.

1870s? Did you miss this??

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/27/moment-of-reckoning-for-uk-...

In particular, the 'far-right oaf' attitude has been growing in my University throughout the 2000s. As well as increases in their (small) numbers, politics, especially brexit and Boris, seemed to have emboldened them. Racist and misogynistic incidents had increased after some big improvements in preceding decades. We even had a few cases hit headlines. The university had to look at tightened policy to help deal with this and other problems. I've copied the current advice to students, with  links to national codes and complaint procedures. If any University doesn't have something equivalent to this which is very easy to find and use, stakeholders, (be they students, staff parents, partner organisations or whatever) should be asking why.

https://www.ntu.ac.uk/studenthub/my-course/student-handbook/student-code-of...

This is what happens when a University fails to properly deal with such issues:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/apr/02/warwick-university-studen...

I'm very strongly in support of wintertree's post on the value of early, formal action. 

And, unfortunately, as others have noted, such views and behaviour are not as diminishingly rare as some posters hope. 

A final thought, as well as a university wide code of conduct, could the accommodation contract contain a specific code of conduct that the bully might be in breach of? 

I have just spoken to my daughter and I have relayed some of the great advice here.

Apparently the abuse didnt stop last night, the good thing is that he was very vocal in front of other students there - they have 8 rooms around a central communal area to clarify. They all tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but he continued - at one point saying to all 'pfft, I'll bet this wasnt your first choice uni was it'. Amazing - my daughter selected this uni, which as I said earlier is a good new uni. Ive said to my daughter that if he comes out with crap like this again, she might want to ask why he didnt go to a 'proper' medical school, you know a Bristol, Cambridge, Exeter, Nottingham etc and is he so crap that he was turned down and had to join a third rate med school. (I have no idea the standing of it but I know med students like the prestige of the more traditional unis for this degree)

He was being particularly obnoxious and brought another girl to tears, suggested to one girl that she could do with getting to the gym and was quite scathing about my daughter and gay people in general plus saying that women should be at home and shouldn't working - what he didnt realise is that that one of the males is dating a bisexual girl and he's apparently a bit hefty. The rest of the girls asked him to move away.  My daughter also thinks that there may be some religious backstory here too.

Another girl mentioned his bahaviour to her dad whilst he was there and she had to prevent her dad from giving him aggro.

The night ended with one sensible girl asking him to come outside so that she could have a word with him - before she could speak he said that he wasnt interested in having sex with her so she could forget it!

I've suggested that she record his views in front of others and then that they all warn him that if the behaviour doesn't stop, he will be reported. I've also offered as a last resort to come and have a friendly natter with him myself but I will make clear that he needs to back off.

The final addition to the situation, wonderfully, is that there is another lad coming to their area this weekend. This guy is apparently a highly flamboyant homosexual, who enjoys nothing more than being camp and doing makeup. I think this parody of a wanker's head will explode.

Report him. Now. No need to wait any longer and no need to get recordings etc. There are multiple witnesses. 

Don't go and talk to him yourself. It will only muddy things

This, when I started uni 10 years ago this wouldn't be acceptable don't see why it should be now.

Get all of them to apply for moving flats and explain why.He will soon be sorted.

Perhaps you might be referring to this; sadly I could provide a couple of other links without too much time spent looking for them. Offwidth could no doubt provide more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58717598

Which university is it?

I work in one myself and they're pretty hot on this sort of thing, though not sure if they all are. They'd look to squash this kind of attitude quite sharpish. 

My view of "perhaps a bit socially awkward and saying shit for effect" has morphed into "what an odious little prick, he needs to go". 

Give your daughter the advice, but don't fight the battle for her - from what you've said she's perfectly articulate and able to assert herself, and with the backup of the others he has bullied (because that's exactly what this behaviour shows him to be) they've already a strong case for formal proceedings via the uni's procedures. I stand by the suggestion (which you've already passed on) to film what he's doing and use that as evidence. 

Although you're understandably incensed on her behalf, this is her issue to resolve. Certainly be supportive and advisory, but the actions need to be hers.

Hi, I spent 20+ years working in a Student Union.  As many have  already done so, I  recommend reporting this to the SU,most have welfare officers, and many have LGBTQ+ officers too.  As part of their  remit they will know the correct reporting procedure for that particular Uni and hopefully will follow it up and do all the legwork on her behalf. ( maybe even unanimously).  That is the core reason Student Unions exist.

I would also let your daughter know, to not worry if there are  repercussions against this self- entitled pompous , arrogant so and so.  He is training to be a medic, if that is how he thinks, he is training for the wrong career. If he gets thrown out, she's doing him a favour.

I hope this will be the only  glitch in her university life,  there will be a 'Freshers Fair' in the first few weeks where she can join clubs and groups. Within no time at all she will be surrounded with like minded people who will become true friends and this 'medic' and his opinions will no longer matter and that he and his views are actually  the minority.

We used to advise people that often the people you meet in your first week at Uni, are the ones you spend the next three years trying to avoid!

I wish her all the very best for the next three years and beyond.

Thanks again all. Ive relayed on to her.

Hi Paul, you asked a direct question so I'll respond although I'd rather not mention directly at this stage. 

I have checked the website and there's a whole section assigned to inclusion charters etc. I can't see anywhere though which explores grievances or dealing with this type of issue.

My gut feeling is that he is likely to get his come uppance in very short order when he finds that he has no friends in his new surroundings.

Sit back and wait, I'm sure your daughter will find more friends over the next few weeks than he ever will.

That's fair. 

Crimbo has summed it up nicely above.

As an example, this is where I would point someone at UoB: https://reportandsupport.bristol.ac.uk/support/what-is-discrimination-and-h...

The University your daughter is at may also have a team who deal with student accommodation issues as well, so it may be worth looking into that, as no one should be discriminated against in University Halls (or anywhere).  

I hoped that he was an immature brat who would quickly learn how diverse society is and that the story had got blown up by an emotional dad.

Unfortunately your second post sounds far more sinister and this utter shit needs to be sorted before someone gets hurt. This isn't just* a homophobic kid but someone with a seriously nasty attitude to everyone who is different to himself.

(*  I don't mean to devalue homophobia in any way with this comment)

On the positive side people often unite against a common enemy, so hopefully she should make some strong friendships with those he has alienated (all the female and hopefully most of the male residents from the sound of it!). 

Honestly I don't think they (it is clearly not just your daughter who has been in receipt of his poison) have no choice other than to make a compliant against him.

This guy sounds like a d**k of the highest order and I totally get your desire to charge down there and beat the living shite out of him - but as you say, that won't help.

I completely agree with what wintertree said about the benefit of taking formal action. I think that's important anyway - but perhaps more so than usual in this case given that this guy is a med student. I suspect the staff on his course would appreciate being aware of his attitude before he starts spouting this bile during clinical rotations...

I think your daughter needs to handle this for herself, but depending on how confident she is, she may not feel equipped to do so. That's really where you can come in - firstly by being supportive and willing to listen and ensuring she knows you are proud of her (sounds like you are already there with that). Secondly, by helping her to figure out what her options are and what tools she has at her disposal to deal with this problem. That might mean talking through the pros and cons of taking formal action (as discussed here), or suggesting who she could talk to within the University (plenty of good suggestions in this thread). And thirdly, by supporting her in whatever course she decides to take, even if it's not what you would do.

I also wanted to say that I am a personal tutor and within my university at least, discussing personal/pastoral problems like this with students is completely within my remit - the role is certainly not purely academic. While this does vary between universities, I would definitely suggest that she talk to her personal tutor as a primary port of call (along with whatever support is offered by her accommodation) - even if the tutor can't help directly, they should be able to point her in the direction of other support services that can. 

I'm sorry to be blunt, but I think this is the wrong advice. To start with, I'm not at all confident it would work. Moreover, I think everyone who's posted to this thread who works at a university - all of us having some degree of pastoral duty towards our students - has said that the behaviour warrants reporting, indeed needs reporting.

 Its easy for people to say report it. My daughters at that age ...no way...just did not have enough maturity to do it.Maybe at the end of 1st year, but now after a few days..as a fresher?? Some 18 year olds will be fine reporting it, I suspect alot will not.They are finding their feet.

An 18 year old may feel more comfortable going at it a different way, which is one of my reasons for asking to move flat. If a few of them do it together, it will have more impact.

Its an alternative idea, no more than that.

Completely agree!

I think this is another reason for TheDrunkenBaker's daughter to talk to pastoral care services. The initial conversation can be as simple "someone is making me feel uncomfortable and I don't know how to handle it". She doesn't have to take it any further than that if she doesn't want to (although they will likely encourage her to if she tells the full story). The role of pastoral care services is explicitly to help students to find their feet.

This is good advice. In my professional life I have conducted a few disciplinary sessions, and the initial formal meeting has often been enough for the recipient to realise they've gone too far and need to change. Having what they have said, written on paper in front of them, can actually be quite an eye-opener for them - what they may have tried to pass off as jokes or banter never looks that way when typed.

A couple have had to proceed further but once the "shot across the bows" has been delivered and ignored, the remaining process is far easier.

That's why I said in an earlier post that it would be completely understandable if she didn't want to take what I acknowledged to be quite a big and potentially consequential step. 

As to moving, why should several entirely innocent people suffer the inconvenience and expense of such a move - if it's even contractually possible - to what would likely be inferior accommodation? The bully should be the one to move. In any case, a request to move with an explanation of why would in effect be reporting him anyway. There's no way such a request wouldn't get escalated up through the administration. 

"Reporting" doesn't have to mean immediately beginning formal procedures. It would begin, as kathrync rightly pointed out, with talking to some kind of pastoral support. 

It's good(ish) to hear that the other students are absorbing and witnessing his unpleasantness too, so there's a few witnesses and more than one occasion. If they can log things and wait for the openly gay guy to arrive and see if he reacts, it might be just the thing to get him kicked out. It's alright to be crafty if it's against people like him. Hopefully they are all safe as well.

Agreed. He sounds extremely worrying. As well as keeping a diary I'd suggest your daughter has her mobile phones voice recorder running whenever he's present in the room with her.

I also think, if she feels up to it, she should have a chat with the other girls who've been subjected to abuse from him regarding them recording the times and dates of the abuse and making a formal complaint.

IMHO he needs removing from the Uni, immediately if at all possible.

I'd just like to add (if it hasn't already been said), that the medical school would likely take a very dim view of this behaviour. 

Medical students have their own standards of conduct and ethics enforced by the BMC. This guy could very easily find himself on the receiving end of fitness to practice proceedings.

It sounds like he is very much alone with his viewpoints and appears to have a combination of either a total lack of empathy or is used to only being in company with like-minded views.

His views are prehistoric - certainly relative to "kids" now, so I wonder if there is a religious element.

He appears to have effectively ostracised himself now, and provided a platform for your daughter and others to make their views, opinions and similarities to each other known.

I suspect he will be ignored and avoided by the rest, and your daughter is likely to make really good friends with the rest.

It’s certainly in keeping with the views of some students from a particular background that, if a different religion and community was involved, would be openly labelled as extremist, with some of their recruitment tactics - particularly at universities IMO - treated as grooming.

Unfortunately, more than one university have societies where his views will fit right in, although even they are likely to stop short of endorsing such overt bullying behaviour.  Occasionally they surface in the news, such as BUCU in 2012.

It’s worth keeping in mind that in these circumstances the offensive student could be both a perpetrator and a victim, having been failed by their extremist parents and a complicit school.  It wouldn’t be the first time this has happened.  Usually though such people keep their views close, here it seems otherwise.  This is not in any way an attempt to excuse, justify or explain away their conduct, not to suggest leniency - far from it there are things they need to hear and the others should be protected from his offensive and deeply unpleasant conduct - but an observation that this sort of thing doesn’t come out of the blue.   How they came to have such extremist views is also unrelated to their actions as a bully - put those two attributes together and you get an awfully toxic combination.
 

I want to agree, we've all done stupid stuff at that age, but I grew up in a very white, very traditional small town in North Yorkshire. 19 was old enough to know better 13 years ago, it certainly is now.

omg - how wounding!

How - picking at one element to undermine how unpleasant he's been generally...

Read the whole thread,  dont cherry pick, understand a lifetime of bullying and worse suffered by my daughter, now morphed into homophobic abuse, to receive this on day 1, then kindly f*ck off.

Never mind, some people are like that. 

Apparently bullying can increase the chances of depression and long term unemployment, maybe keep an eye out for her mental health. it's plausibly been a factor in my own wobbles. I'm glad she's going to uni, it seems to be that one can need to lose any sense that the wider world is going to continue to be like school was, to be able to make the most of oneself, one's capacity to live fully. It's a pivotal shift which opens everything. 

Blimey they've expanded their remit! No wonder subs and travel insurance have gone through the roof! ;p

Beat me to it! This guy would definitely be up for bolting Stanage if he starts climbing.

In all seriousness though, this would definitely be viewed as a fitness to practice issue by the GMC. It should be raised through the university channels as people have suggested above. I wouldn't want him as a medical student with those views, but he isn't beyond reform at 19.

Reading this new account is a good deal more disturbing, but I'm going to go against the grain again and say now is not the time to go straight to formal procedures. I'll try to explain why.

Firstly, by the time the students are back in hall and socializing amongst themselves, staff are at home with their families, or ought to be, and this distance is by and large a good thing for the students. One of the benefits of halls for the students is that they have to learn how to resolve their differences among themselves. I fully agree with those who've said to you that you can only advise, but not intervene: this is now your daughter's time, as a young independent adult within her own student community, to decide how to judge and treat such behaviour; to create consensus among peers; and to contribute to crucial collective decisions about what behaviours her generation are going to regard as beyond the pale, and what they're going to forgive. I firmly believe that we in Unis have an obligation to trust our students to devise their own ways of managing their own affairs. They are the future; we, the past; and appeals to we grey-haired authorities should be the last resort, not the first.

Secondly and more pragmatically, formal procedures take time, and are conducted by senior academics who usually live off campus. That's all well and good, but not of much immediate use given that the abusiveness is polluting your daughter's and her peers' evenings right now, when all the academics have gone home to their families. That's why I'd say alerting the warden is her first step. You want boots on the ground keeping the calm in the evenings when the abuse actually takes place.

Thirdly, as B-team. Wintertree and others note, such behaviour isn't as rare as it seemed to be becoming only a few years ago, but it is certainly regarded as extreme and extremist. But that does mean that a formal complaint isn't going to get very far if made only on the second day of term as there simply isn't much evidence. If I had to look at this based just on what you've mentioned so far, I'd be obliged to balance the uni's duty of care towards your daughter with its equal duty of care towards the other student (and there are definitely some details in your accounts that lead me to believe this aggressor is a student with a specific kind of background being given a chance). Go formal too early, and there's little to substantiate the grievance; wait and record the details, as I think both you and Ridge mentioned, and there's something more substantial to go on.

I've been in all four of the main roles here: a complainant myself as an undergrad, then a warden as a PhD student for 3 years, a personal tutor for 25 years, and senior academic on the disciplinary board. That's across five different unis, and each has had its own wildly different ways of dealing with such incidents. My experience tells me that students expedite their own (good or bad) solutions long before uni authorities get anywhere near dealing with their problems.

Sage

Sounds like your daughter (and the other friends) are behaving magnificently. Chapeau.

Speaking as an ex-medical student, I think he's going to get a rude awakening. As a current medical school academic and clinician I can also say if he said that round here there would be consequences - but I'm happy to say almost all from his peers; the Uni probably wouldn't need to get involved that much unless formal complaints were made because his fellow students wouldn't tolerate it. If he's got a problem with "gays and blacks" he will be left marginalised, all the more so as he progresses. You don't have a choice as to who you work with in medicine, and if you make enemies as you go you'll be marked out remarkably quickly. It will also be remarkably difficult to get the job you might want if you're well known to be an arse. This entitled young man will soon discover the need to pull his head in and get on with others. Hopefully he will do so because it's the right thing to do, not for threat of punishment.

I do worry about how he's got to the stage where he thinks it's OK to say that. He either believes it  - in which case he's short on common sense or valid role models, or he's saying it because he's insecure and it's a way to get attention (any attention) and he's not mature enough to realise what he's doing. Either way it's a bad look. 

I knew a few bell ends in first year of med school (I was probably one of them, at times) but either they failed exams and got thrown out, or they grew up. The proportion of bell ends who turned in to doctors 5 or 6 years later was thankfully very low. Without support from your colleagues it's a long, hard and lonely road without much redemption for many years. A lot of med school is about growing up as a person while learning how to be knowledgeable and kind in the future (not about learning medicine, as such). This lad clearly has a long way to go on that journey. 

Your daughter and her friends are learning a lot about life and she knows you are there for her whenever she needs. There's some great advice on this thread and please keep us in the loop - especially when the new lad turns up!

b

been away overnight but I take your point though I think at the stage I made my comment it was arguable.  Having seen what was described to have transpired subsequently it sounds as if this person is behaving quite harmfully and in a bullying way and I'd totally agree that intervention is needed.  Either he is a genuine menace or he is someone who has lost his way, but in either case he can't be allowed to continue or develop his behaviour/mental state any further.

When I referred to myself being silly at that age I see now that what we got up to then bears little relationship to the case as has been more fully described.

Thanks again for everyone's support.

As one poster predicted,  we had a call at 3am this morning. She couldn't sleep, a mixture of preexisting anxiety,  home sickness, wobbles about her new life etc. I don't doubt this episode, whilst not causal, has played a part.

She's talking about coming home already and my wife is going over to see her tonight.

This, with job concerns for mum and me plus my youngest daughter turning into a teenager,  diagnosed with ADHD last week and with her own anxiety and behavioural issues. Not sure how much more we can all take...

Just to try and alleviate one of your sources of stress, I was diagnosed with ADHD in the early 90's, at a time and place where it was not understood as well as it is today. With the help of my parents, I managed fine and it is a part of me and how I think that I wouldn't change. With your support and the support of her school your daughter will be fine. You have to be prepared to not take any shit from the school if they are not providing the support needed.

Despite some of the  comments on my idea, has she considered requesting moving flat.

Remember that quite a few students do this in their first couple of weeks.

I think given the circumstances that's probably a pragmatic solution, as it sounds like she, and the rest of the family, have more than enough to deal with without having to try and deal with ongoing harassment from this little shit.

That doesn't mean he should be allowed to get away with it, (or continue with a medical career for that matter), but sometimes you have to pick your battles depending on what else you have to deal with at the same time.

With a bit of luck someone in the Uni or around town might give him a good kicking in the near future.

The important thing here for me is that she called you.  

Wobbles are to be expected for many even without the exacerbating circumstances.  Seen from a perspective of advising students, where it starts going wrong is when they're clearly not happy and also clearly not willing to talk about it with anyone.  This applies to their happiness in their new setting and to issues around academic progress.  Especially difficult when they're clearly not ready to admit things to themselves let alone to others.  

More when you talk about it than when you don't, so as with your Jr, it's good to see you posting here.

As Wintertree says, wobbles are not uncommon. Normally they resolve themselves once they get into the swing of their studies and get an appropriate group of friends. I tell the first years that some of the people they meet on the first day may become friends for life, while others will come along much later on.

Being there for your daughter is important. And also not being there when she's making her own way - a fine balance (a nice apple pie always is a good idea - share with her proper friends) 

With respect to the offender - I'd suggest your daughter has a word with one of the med school tutors. They'll probably put the fear of God into him that it's his career that will be going down the tubes in a hurry if he doesn't recognise his idiocy and mend his ways. What he said is completely unacceptable but sounds like first day day Uni showing off. "I've got important opinions and will ram them down your throat." Often students like this realise the error of their ways (which can be a very uncomfortable experience for them) and can turn out to be decent human beings in the future. They are making that transition from childhood to adulthood - and some are definitely still children when they arrive. Those that don't change, in my experience, tend not to do very well - empty vessels and all that.

Hope all goes well for you and your family.

Agreed. Hopefully our support (virtual though it is) helps a bit.

No need to reply, but I hope your daughter is in a better position now and you feel calmer.

From my own memories of being bullied, a main thing is to make sure your daughter's self esteem is strong, and to not be (too) critical of or hard on herself, which can amount to one absorbing/continuing what the bullies did. 

Sounds like he's lining himself up for a good kicking from his flatmates - if they're all of the same opinion of him they won't have any trouble dealing with him, either officially or in their own way.

You definitely have to keep us all informed, this could be amusing.

With reference to the talk of 'official action', what's the university's published stance on this sort of thing and what is the procedure to follow?  It's quite important that procedures are followed to prevent people getting let off on technicalities or cause delays in the process. For example, if the process is to report it to the university accommodation agency direct then there's no point in going to the personal tutor.

PS. with your daughter's talk of homesickness etc. the general rule with homesickness is to try to stick it out and it will pass.  Much of the things giving her a tough time at present will disappear with time, and thus she needs to give them time to happen and you need to help her understand this. If you simply tell her she can come home she almost certainly will; if you work to identify the problems with her and disseminate them into things she can deal with or identify an end point for them then she'll work through them.  You don't eat an elephant in one sitting. For example, this guy won't be in her hair for long, it's obvious he will be dealt with one way or another in the near future.

Yes, my daughter was desperately homesick last year (quite a surprise to us all), but it didn’t last long. A friend of mine said she got homesick at uni, spoke to her mum about it then jacked it in and came home. She said she really regretted it and wished her mum had been firmer with her. 

As a personal tutor, a large part of my role is to provide students with clear information about the correct procedures for things like this. I am supposed to be there as a sounding board and to provide guidance. It is NOT my role to directly handle problems like this, but it is my role to provide students who come to me with the information they need to make sure that things like this are reported through the correct channels and handled appropriately (this may include finding copies of the University policies and procedures, relevant email addresses and so on) and of course to provide them with emotional support throughout the process. So, I would say it absolutely is worth going to her personal tutor, even though it's highly unlikely her personal tutor will be the person who resolves the problem.

Quite right, a personal tutor provides advice. Talking to a personal tutor would in no way invalidate any subsequent formal process. 

Throughout this thread I've been uncomfortable with the number of posters who seem to feel a good kicking or ostracism would be good and effective solutions to this issue. 

I agree with all the helpful comments so far about what action your daughter should take. In addition to this perhaps "giving him enough rope to hang himself" may either shock him into growing up a bit or remove him from University altogether if he doesn't change his ways.