UKC

You dirty rat

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 Andy Gamisou 30 Apr 2021

Where I live the (very) substantial hunting community love to wage war on rodents.  They do this either by laying poisoned grain (see attached photo), or nailing bait to trees.  This strikes me as nuts in various ways: any poison can enter the food chain of birds and other mammals, either directly through ingestion, or indirectly through eating rodents that have consumed the poison; given the exponential reproduction rate of rodents it seems unlikely to have any meaningful impact on their population anyway.

However, I don't have any substantial knowledge in this area (other than results of a few google searches), so thought there might some with actual practical understanding of this practice and it's impact (or otherwise) on the environment.

I thank you.


 65 30 Apr 2021
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Is that even legal?

 Tringa 30 Apr 2021
In reply to 65:

> Is that even legal?


It would appear not. This is from the .gov website -  https://www.gov.uk/pest-control-on-your-property  and contains the following -

Protecting other wildlife from harm

You must protect other animals from traps or poison you put down for pests by:

placing lethal traps under cover or so that other animals and birds are not caught

preventing wildlife from eating poison you’ve put down

The photo in the original posting looks as if the poison would be accessible to any animal.

Dave

 deepsoup 30 Apr 2021
In reply to Tringa:

Perhaps the OP is not in the UK, though it really shouldn't be legal anywhere.

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Do you know that it is poisoned?

It could be that they put a load of grain down and it attracts pigeons etc. Then the hunters sit in the bushes and pick them off. Also there is a lot of grouse and pheasant feeding that goes on, but these are usually more contained.

 mondite 30 Apr 2021
In reply to dread-i:

> It could be that they put a load of grain down and it attracts pigeons etc.

I would tend towards that. Unless there are an amazing number of rodents turning up with that much poison would seem somewhat overkill and would probably be wasted. Only so many could travel to it to get poisoned. Make more sense to go for more spread out small caches.

As for impact on the ecosystem. It can be high with a good chance of killing predators and specialist carrion eaters. Of course this might be seen as a bonus by the hunters.

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

It’s an odd one. If it got into the eco system, eg a pigeon, then the hunter wouldn’t want to eat it. If it’s laced with say warfarin then then rodents would most likely cache most of the food and eat it later, most likely dying in their nest (so not as likely to enter the food chain and/or get eaten by carrion eaters).  Cities are full of poisoned bait things for rats, but you  just about never see the dead rats.

Another thought: if it was bait for the hunters target, I’d expect to see a shooting screen/butt of some description nearby (but no too near or else the target would contain too much shot and not fit to eat).

Post edited at 10:25
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

>Another thought: if it was bait for the hunters target, I’d expect to see a shooting screen/butt of some description nearby (but no too near or else the target would contain too much shot and not fit to eat).

Some hunters, bless 'em, seem to think they are elite snipers. It would not be out of place for them to put down plastic pigeons, to attract others. Then lie in wait, dressed in a gillie suit with scrim netting over them. Which would be ideal, if you were taking out a general at 2000m. It could be considered excessive for pigeons at 20m, with an airgun.

https://www.airgunshooting.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.6165315!/image/image.jpg

In reply to dread-i:

> >Another thought: if it was bait for the hunters target, I’d expect to see a shooting screen/butt of some description nearby (but no too near or else the target would contain too much shot and not fit to eat).

> Some hunters, bless 'em, seem to think they are elite snipers. It would not be out of place for them to put down plastic pigeons, to attract others. Then lie in wait, dressed in a gillie suit with scrim netting over them. Which would be ideal, if you were taking out a general at 2000m. It could be considered excessive for pigeons at 20m, with an airgun.

I think they are trying to make up for some other inadequacy in their life possibly.

 hang_about 30 Apr 2021
In reply to Astropath:

Is that a grenade launcher underneath?

 Tom V 30 Apr 2021
In reply to Astropath:

> I think they are trying to make up for some other inadequacy in their life possibly.

You could apply that to hundreds of other activities including climbing.

 freeflyer 30 Apr 2021
In reply to Astropath:

I walked past some birders today, and the pack leader had something like that on a tripod. The one in the picture is a cut-down version however.

 Andy Gamisou 01 May 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

> Perhaps the OP is not in the UK, though it really shouldn't be legal anywhere.

No, it's not the UK.

 Andy Gamisou 01 May 2021
In reply to dread-i:

> Do you know that it is poisoned?

Yes, it is.

> It could be that they put a load of grain down and it attracts pigeons etc. 

Good suggestion, but no it's not for this purpose.

 Andy Gamisou 01 May 2021
In reply to mondite:

> I would tend towards that.

Well, you might do - but you'd be wrong.  This is a widespread practice here, sanctioned and paid for the the official hunting federation.  They regularly post piccies on their social presence outlets of the bags of grain they distribute to their members.

> Unless there are an amazing number of rodents turning up with that much poison would seem somewhat overkill and would probably be wasted. Only so many could travel to it to get poisoned. Make more sense to go for more spread out small caches.

I doubt sense really comes into it.

> As for impact on the ecosystem. It can be high with a good chance of killing predators and specialist carrion eaters. Of course this might be seen as a bonus by the hunters.

They're generally happy to see foxes poisoned - two of my dogs were casualties of poisoned liver put down for this purpose (not sanctioned by the hunting federation in this case).  The local wildlife groups blame these practices for the decline of several species of eagle.

Must admit I wasn't really interested in a discussion on whether what is in the picture is what I say it is - I think I'm in a better position to know than you guys, plus it was simply an example, but rather whether anyone had some substantial knowledge around these issues - to which I'm thinking the answer is no.

I'll maybe try and seek out some more specialized forums for advice. Worth a try though.

2
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

> Well, you might do - but you'd be wrong.  This is a widespread practice here

> Must admit I wasn't really interested in a discussion on whether what is in the picture is what I say it is - I think I'm in a better position to know than you guys

Maybe if you had made it clear in the OP where in the world this is happening you might have got more constructive answers. 

This is a UK forum, and in the UK the photo you have posted would almost certainly not be poisoned bait. 

1
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

> Must admit I wasn't really interested in a discussion on whether what is in the picture is what I say it is - I think I'm in a better position to know than you guys, plus it was simply an example, but rather whether anyone had some substantial knowledge around these issues - to which I'm thinking the answer is no.

Top tip for you, if you don't want discussion, contradiction, armchair experts and actual experts plus the discussion wandering in to other areas it's probably best not to post on any forums, particularly not this one. 


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