UKC

Looking for a drone, ideally <£200 to accompany me on walks

Something fairly small / quiet

I always take photo's with my phone and this could be the next logical step for some short immersive videos. I know the cube root of naff all about drones so am open to advice.

I know they get a bad rep but I'd be discreet and I'm hoping the tech has evolved by now to make them more inobtrusive. Any thoughts?

As you state that you don't know about drones... That sort of rules out the DIY versions...

And with small (but I assume still mobile phone quality pics/video), you pretty much have only one option... DJI Mavic mini, albeit there are quite a few versions. Your budget will prolly limit you to Mini 1 or Mini 2 (and most likely 2nd hand).  In a push, you might be able to get a Mini 3 second hand for your budget... But Mini 3 Pro will be close to 3 or 4x your budget.

IIRC even the Mini 1 had some automatic flymodes and maybe even subject tracking... both of which will be handy unless you climb as a group of three (one to fly/film, two to climb). 

Remember, without these automatic flymodes, someone really needs to control the drone at all times... so can't e.g. belay you. And static hover is not automated flymode...

DJI mini is the way to go. they are just under 250gms so don't need to be registered.

DJI Mini 2

Fits snuggly with 3-4 batteries in a cheap cable bag. 

Great little drone... but it does take some time to get the hang of the camera settings.. 
Can be quite noisy images, if left in auto mode and the light is not great. 

Its fairly resilient.. and the find my drone feature is great for when things go wrong! (I speak from experience).

When other people are around it stays in the bag., but when quiet.. it gives you the opportunity to get some cool shots. 

That's three recommendations for the DJI Mini range

Slightly above my budget but not unobtainable, what are they like to control? I have visions of turning it on only to watch it spiral away forever over the horizon!

Your Granny could do it*

they are not flown by the "pilot" its all computer controlled based on inputs. essentially if you let go it will stop.  more recent ones have collision avoidance etc too

*probably

haha... 
Ive had the Spark, the Air, now the Mini2... 
All small and lightweight, specifically for rucsac use! 

The controls are amazing... absolutely bang on... and very quick to learn. BUT.........
The biggest issue with mountain use is wind and battery. 

You may fly out and have full power and your battery time meter says 25mins... 
As you hit some wind.. it will start dropping... If you are then flying back into the wind... these are not big objects, and the battery power will plummet.... and soon after so will the drone.   
Just realizing this will make your life a bit more comfortable..

 

They are a piece of piss to control. However they are not exempt from user stupidity. I have killed three and not allowed any more fly away toys.

"  . . . but surely these days a drone companion is as comparably antisocial as bringing a dog with you or a head torch?"

I haven't given you a 'dislike', but my antipathy to drones depends on the circumstances.

A couple of years ago, I supported a friend on her Bob Graham during the mid summer heat wave. She was due on Bowfell at dawn and as it was a beautiful night, I went up at midnight and 'bivvied' on the summit (the only occasion in the UK where I've been comfortable in shorts and shirt sleeves for the entire night).

Simply magical, but just before dawn at least a dozen people arrived from the mass of tents huddled around Angle and Three Tarns. Every one of them had a drone and the peace and perfection of the hour was subsumed by the buzzing of these bloody things. If I had had a shotgun . . .

Or a battery of SAM's or a mini-EMP

In all seriousness though, they were out of order. All the effort we go to, to escape the rat race, only to have it ruined by a group of inconsiderate drone enthusiasts. Poor show on their behalf...

Totally agree with you Jim.. 
Even as a user... they piss me off when used with no consideration. 
Im very selective on where and when its flown and usually only for a few snaps or a flyby... 

If its been in my bag 20 times.. its been flown 5... purely for the reason that I wouldnt want my peace shattered with the buzzing! 
 
 

Are these commercially available? Just asking for a (grumpy) friend ...

The Mini 3 Pro (the most expensive) has front and rear sensors if you're nervous about crashing into things, they all have ground sensors to a) help you land and b) lift you up if you're flying low-level stuff.

You need be pretty unaware to crash them mind; officially you need to be flying in VLOS, and you've got the camera view, so flying into a tree suggests you got something wrong. The classic is reversing up and away - straight into a tree/lamppost. 

The noise is the bit most people hate, they're not quiet when they're nearby - at maximum height of 120m, you can't really hear them IMO, but obviously you do need to land and take-off, and you might not want to be that high up for your shot.

Also that 120m height is relative... if you're on a beach at the bottom of some cliffs, people at the top will be a lot nearer.

Thanks Durbs, that's the model I've gone for.

Launch day Saturday!

As my mate said, "I look forward to the pictures (or the report on the 6 O'clock News!)"

Have a read of this from the CAA about where and when you can fly. I understand that if your drone has a camera, whatever the weight, it needs to be registered and you need to pass a test. (Easy peasy and you just keep going back until you get it right)

https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/where-you-can-fly

Updated in Jan 2023

I didn't know this!

Looks like 'Launch day' will need to be postponed!

No you don't.

if its under 250g then you can fly your little heart out.

I read this as you have to register but no test needed

https://www.caa.co.uk/drones/rules-and-categories-of-drone-flying/introduct...

"If your drone is under 250g then there are some variations to some of the rules. If your drone has a camera then you must register as an operator but you do not have to complete the flyer ID test (although we strongly recommend that you do)."

Mini SE owner. The DJI app gives you an idea about areas with flying restrictions and warns you if you stray into a restricted area.

I also use Altitude Angel Drone Assist app which show restrictions in more detail plus users can notify others if they are flying in a certain area.

It's worth paying for care refresh package. I think I paid £29 for a year with up to 2 repairs/replacement, if replaced I think it's an additional £29. Cheaper than a new drone.

Probably:
youtube.com/watch?v=5wNgqxRV5os&

You do not need to take out the drone, just the operator. A Blackadder Xmas present would be freely available.

Am now registered with the Civil Aviation Authority and drone is in the post. Cheers all, for all the helpful feedback.

I've got to be honest, my last two crag days have been beset by them, including one actually circling right above where I was trying to psych myself up for my first lead of the year. So much work to try to regain my headgame and totally ruined the moment when I needed to be at my calmest. I appreciate they make good footage but they have an ability to ruin the crag experience in a way that almost no other other sound does (not great on hikes either, but at least you can get away, and generally aren't so sensitive to sound at the time). I don't know if those users thought they were being subtle (they were stood a lot further away from them than I was, didn't respond to my shouts, and obviously I couldn't get away). 

Until they invent a silent one or you are 100% confident there is noone else there (hard to do, and it's on the quiet days they're extra annoying), please, for the love of God, don't bring them to the crag.

I hope your self defence skills are up to snuff. You might need them. 

I agree, they are unpleasant bits of technology. Amazing for some things (survey work, documentary making etc) but as a personal hobby? No.

Folks who film themselves with a drone whilst they scramble eg striding edge... why? is it ticking an ego thing? There's no way you can be enjoying what you are doing when half your mind is thinking how the drone is getting on... what's the attraction to doing that?

I was on a route in White Ghyll last summer and one was flying about. If a peregrine had swooped in and nailed it then I think that would have made my year.

I'm very tempted by a DJI mini. Is there any technology that would help locate such a small drone that has gone down in for example heather or bracken?

I remember a tussle with Amen Corner and having the paraffin budgie in close attendance, no doubt getting their kill laughing.   Noisy but very, very reassuring having them around.

Yes... comes with the DJI software - 'Find my Drone'... 
It does work!! 
As with all this stuff... test somewhere first so you can go through the motions of ditching and locating.. 
Like I've said before... Learn when to stay close... and when not to fly... then you won't need to go hunting. 

I've read through this post with some interest, on more than one occasion as a lone female I've felt stalked by a drone user. Once when scrambling and another while solo climbing an easy route. Never have I felt vulnerable in the hills until this happened. No doubt most drone users have perfectly valid reasons for their hobby, and I maybe accused of being over sensitive but I would at least have liked to be asked.

Your linked article has zero occurrences of "camera". Are you sure that all drones with camera whatever the weight? Sounds an impossibly broad requirement?

"Do not decree what you cannot enforce" Antigone (Sophocles). Regulations shouldn't forget that one!

Sorry, you are correct about the previous article that I posted.

From the CAA I have the following 

https://www.caa.co.uk/drones/rules-and-categories-of-drone-flying/introduct...

In the section "Registration and flyer ID" and lower down the document "Drones under 250g" is the explanation.

Wow, you're right! "...If your drone has a camera (unless it is a toy) or weighs 250g or more then you need to register with the CAA..." This is also vague though, isn't every hobby drone-operator going to state it's a toy?

I can certainly see how a drone flying nearby could feel intrusive and even stalking. 

Most likely that would not be the case, though. They were simply flying it around and saw something interesting (you climbing/scrambling) and took a peek or even video. After all, a real stalker does not really want to be noticed, so a buzzin' drone is hardly the "weapon of choise" for such use cases.

As for feeling annoyed about the buzzing drone. That is an absolutely valid point... But unless flying drones in said location is illegal, they have as much right to be there as you do. In fact, let's look it from their perspective... You fancy taking a really lovely sunrise fly-by video of Stanage outcrop on a clear lovely day... and then some fvccker decide to be climbing or running there, ruining their shot of a beatific desolate scenery... perheps there is an UKDrones forum (I'm sure there is) where they complain how annoying it is that some asswipes ruin their shots by climbing on outcrops/seacliffs/etc .

Most access points to Glyderau and Carneddau have signage specifically banning drone use (and other activities ), I guess most other National Park land in Snowdonia also. 

I suspect there is no legal backing for such a ban as long as all other drone regulations have been followed. 

Isn't it the private property of the NT? In which case they can choose what activities they ban on their land. 

In response to HeMa, if someone did that to me I would like they were intruding. Filming someone in a remote place, anonymously, is creepy.  

They may own the land but landowners don't own the aerospace above it. Technically they could probably ban you from taking off and landing on their property but not from flying over it if you took off from somewhere you were allowed to (with other drone rules being observed).

Spot on.  I work in docco film making and pretty much every shoot we do has some Drone footage, looks absolutely amazing (especially if the op has the DJI Mavic 3 that can shoot proper 4k DCI Log) at a fraction of what it would have cost to do a heli shoot. 

Some of the ways that they're being used by the DOPs is incredible too, stuff that couldn't have been done with a helicopter or jib so I'm a big fan.

However these are licensed professionals shooting for a tv production, I don't think people should have them for a hobby.  They're annoying, intrusive and send my dog absolutely bananas.  They piss of literally everybody apart from the person who is flying it.

As I understand it, the landowner 'owns'  the 'lower stratum' (about 500-1000ft above ground level) in the sense that you need the landowner's permission to fly there. Normal aviation is well above that, but drones (of the intrusive type) would definitely be below that.

A spectacular misjudgement of the zeitgeist on my behalf that's encapsulated in this short clip...

https://fb.watch/jaWYx6sTfS/

I may be mistaken in that case. It looks like if you were flying low enough or in a way which caused a disturbance, then you could possibly be done for trespass which is a civil matter and you'd probably have to have persisted after being asked to stop. I think the NT might actually have some bylaws in place too which may change things. I would expect a lot of the area in question has NOTAM restrictions most of the time anyway due to all the military training.

Yes I think you're right about the trespass aspect. Which then begs the question: If you are flying a drone (say in Snowdonia without express permission) and distract a climber/scrambler/walker who then falls and is injured, are you now criminally liable (since that would now count as aggravated trespass)?

Hmm not sure about that one. I'd guess the risk of distraction was taken by the climber along with the other hazards of the sport but I have no clue. I almost fell off once when a fighter jet zoomed over the top Stanage at low level and caught me by surprise.

No, I'm not sure either. But it could be argued that the climber should accept the risk of 'normal' distractions (like a sheep falling down a crag), but not have to accept illegal - and therefore presumed rare and unusual) distractions like drones. Hope we never find out!

I find drones irritating so I'm not "selling" their use... but I'm really trying to imagine scenarios of small drones accidentally killing or injuring scramblers or climbers. Struggling to imagine this other than a drone repeatedly attacking people on a delicate crux, or Hitchcock esque menacing black swarms pursuing a lone walker eventually driven mad and falling screaming over an edge. Maybe I'm one of the lucky few but nobody I personally know has been ended in such sticky ways due to drones.

Yes Tom, but drones are inherently evil, malevolent contraptions, as this thread only goes to prove! Just look at what this b*stard did with one https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-leicestershire-64792401

Unfettered EVIL!

Err ..... no they don't.

I've always claimed that different people will want to enjoy the countryside in different ways and it's down to all countryside users to be respectful to others.

Unfortunately a lot of UKC/UKH users believe their method of enjoying the countryside is the only one that matters and other people should be denied access for their hobbies.

Just avoid people with the drone so you're not annoying anyone and enjoy.

Point. Completely. Missed.

Never mind. 😁

And steer well clear of sensitive wildlife such as cliff nesting birds, flocks of waders roosting at high tide in winter, seal haul out sites etc.

'I used my drone to find 1,400 lost dogs'.

Oh, come off it. You hardly need a drone to spot a pack of fourteen hundred dogs.

It also seems as if dog owners in Leicestershire are exceedingly careless with their animals.

One of the things that social media has taught me is that a disappointingly large number of dog owners are careless with their animals