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Upgrading MacBook Pro? Laptop & base unit?

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 Si Withington 05 Dec 2020

Ay up

So currently I have a 2012 MacBook Pro laptop which I'm looking to change as it is no longer 'compatible' with the new OS releases from Apple . It gets used for the usual internet rubbish, work admin (office type stuff) and photo editing on LR & PS. The latter is pretty resource intensive, but it's fine, just. I either use it as a laptop, or I hook it up to my Eizo monitor. It comes with me travelling and is pretty heavy/bulky (relatively!)

It's a Quad-Core Intel Core i7 2.3 GHz with 8GB of RAM and a 15" screen.

I'm debating whether to go for a new MB Pro, or maybe a thinner version (the Air or whatever its called) and then have an iMac or similar at home. Or do the 'thinner' Apple laptops have enough umph to do both jobs? Is it better to have something portable and something with more power for work at home?

I'm pretty tied in to Apple and not keen to change. Also don't reckon I'm keen on the iPad, but could be swayed.

What do folk do these days?

Ta

 mik82 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

Apple are (again) going through a transition to a different architecture so the base models with 13" screen are using the new ARM based chips whereas the larger screened devices and desktops are still based on Intel x86. From what I've seen the new ARM devices are both much more power efficient, and powerful enough to handle intensive stuff like photo editing - beating even the much more expensive, larger x86 Apple stuff. 

I wouldn't buy any new Apple product with an Intel chip at the moment.  I expect even a new 13" Macbook Air would fulfil your needs.  I would perhaps be inclined to wait until next year to see how things stabilise rather than being an early adopter.

Post edited at 12:40
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

I bought the latest 16" MBP in the summer after using a 13" for a few years. As it is heading towards refresh time they are c£300+ cheaper at John Lewis than Apple (+ includes three-year warranty. It has been great having the bigger screen, extra storage and it chews through big tasks effortlessly.

But - four months in the battery is showing only 90% of its original charge capacity.  Never had issues in the past - I usually keep Macs for about four years and sell them on with that kind of life left in them. Might be a one-off but I suspect it will be going back to the shop next summer,

Chris

 jezb1 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

I’ve been mulling this lately...

The new Air & Pro are giving similar speed results but for intensive stuff the Pro by nature of having fans performs at the speed for longer.

Adobe stuff won’t be making the most of the new M1 chip until March ish I think, currently it will run using Rosetta.

 Mudflap 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

What are your options for connecting to the Eizo monitor? HDMI?

OP Si Withington 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Mudflap:

Currently use Thunderbolt to Display Port on the Eizo

 StefanB 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

An upgrade from a 2012 MacBook Pro to a 2020 model will make a huge difference. I went from a 2014 MacBook Pro to a 2018 MacBook Pro (13'', 8GB RAM) and a 2019 MacBookPro (16", 16 GB RAM). Both steps were incredible in terms of performance. I work full-time on these machines doing heavy processing, so my requirements are probably different from most people's. 

When I use it for my photography, most standard LR stuff is fine on the 8GB machine, but the 16GB RAM and the larger screen make a huge difference for some Photoshop stuff. It depends on what you plan to do.

From what I understand the new Apple chips are a big step again, so right now I would probably get a 13¨MacBook Pro with the M1 chip and a decent amount of memory. 

One thing I have noticed is that editing photos on my iPad is actually very comfortable and works very well for most things, so quite often I end up editing on that. So a cheaper Mac (Air) for standard stuff like web and word processing and an iPad Pro might also be an option to consider.

I can see no reason for getting an iMac or similar desktop machine these days.  

OP Si Withington 05 Dec 2020
In reply to jezb1:

Yeah, I'm sort of leaning towards the Pro for that reason. The Air isn't actually that different in size/weight anyway. 

 NorthernGrit 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

If you sell the old one give me a shout (or link if you auction it) I might be interested.

FWIW 2012 I think was the last year MBPs were basically fully user upgradeable. SInce then the progression has been towards soldered memory/drives etc. Don't get me wrong a newer model would thrash it for performance but depending on application the 2012s can still be useable. 

You can also get round the upgrade ceiling. I'm running a 2009 on High Sierra and it's stable.

The new ARM models do seem to be entering a new era of efficiency and power though.

 Frank R. 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

I'd wait a bit as well. Why not just stay on Catalina in the meantime? I am still running Mojave on one old machine because of a specific 32-bit software package I need. You could upgrade it to 16GB and 2xSSD pretty cheap to make it much more snappy (look up SSD CD-ROM adapters - having 16GB & two SSDs makes a whole lot of difference, you could even run them in RAID0 for 2x the speed or mirrored for peace of mind redundancy). Even with Catalina, you are almost guaranteed to get all of the security updates for a few years to come (there are still some security updates released for High Sierra!) and software compatibility, unless Apple ditches iCloud interoperability like iBooks or Reminders (happened) - yes, good luck syncing the "all your devices" iCloud account if you have a mix of old and new devices, much thanks, Apple! Some services work, some don't.

On the other hand, yours has a very old graphics card, not sure how well would that work with Adobe's newer products (if you are on CS subscription, a GPU that supports Metal 2 makes some functions lot faster in latest Adobe products, especially with 4K display)

The old displays do suck - if you can get a 2017+ Pro very cheaply, the displays are awesome for photo editing on the go (apart from being glossy, but the panel shows 100% sRGB and a whole lot of AdobeRGB gamut and got "glaring" reviews for that, with avg. dE after calibration well under 1).

Last, you might look into an external graphics card for desktop work with a laptop (you'd probably need a newer MB for that anyway, though, it needs Thunderbolt 3 for best performance, even if some eGPU enclosures do work with TB2 or even TB1) - more and more functions are GPU accelerated. Doesn't come exactly cheap, but if you use the laptop 50% of time as a laptop, it might make sense. Unfortunately, I doubt eGPUs would work (soon or at all) on the new sans-Intel architecture so it might be a blind alley for any future updates.

Post edited at 19:44
 SouthernSteve 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

External graphics don’t work with the M1 chip computers

 SouthernSteve 05 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

I have a M1 MBP for setting up some new software and development. It is good and most things work well except for one really key application that we need for work, so it might not suit your needs. All the standard things work well – Office, Firefox, printing and scanning using Rosetta 2. It will be a miracle if creative cloud moves across without issues! I am not impressed with only 2 USB ports, but otherwise all good. They have finally fixed the keyboard.

If you have mainly 'vanilla' needs then it will be a good choice and rather fast!

 Blue Straggler 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

A tangent, just relating to your first sentence regarding compatibility with later OS. I have a 2011 MacBook Pro and a paranoia about updating OS but I did it slightly inadvertently the other day (lazy way to update Safari so it would be compatible with Facebook) and presumably my hardware and the download page spoke to each other nicely because I am updated “only” to Sierra 10.12.6

Do you have software requirements that need a later OS? I am not trying to talk you out of replacing hardware, this is a question for ME 😃 Currently not doing much with the Mac but will be doing some basic photo editing of RAW files (from equally old cameras, 20Mb at a time, nothing in bulk that would need doing quickly, so minimal needs really) 

 StefanB 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

The newer versions of MacOS just have a nicer user experience IMO. They work best if you completely surrender to the Apple ecosystem and sync stuff through iCloud between devices.

Otherwise, if you are happy with Sierra or whatever you run now there is no reason to upgrade. I have often found that older devices perform worse with upgraded software. 

 SouthernSteve 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

High Sierra is the most up to date OS you can get on a 2011 MBP without fiddling (lots).

High Sierra is a good OS and was very stable, but there are no security updates for this now

Apple in their super 'environmental' way have made such machines out of date. Linux Mint or similar will run well though.

 Blue Straggler 06 Dec 2020
In reply to StefanB and SouthernSteve:

Thanks. My only concern was that I might inadvertently and irreversibly install an OS upgrade that bricks the laptop! Sounds like that can’t happen....right? Or wrong? 

OP Si Withington 06 Dec 2020
In reply to NorthernGrit:

> If you sell the old one give me a shout (or link if you auction it) I might be interested.

Probs will be. Message me if you're keen!

OP Si Withington 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Frank R.:

Thanks for this.

Already running 1 SSD and 16GB

OP Si Withington 06 Dec 2020
In reply to SouthernSteve:

If 'vanilla' is web browsing, streaming music and videos, 'office' type apps, LR batch editing/importing/exporting (this is what takes ages on mine) and the odd PD edit. Yeah.

OP Si Withington 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

I always update software and usually straight away. Apple are pretty good and making decent changes to how their OS operates so I'm usually keen to adopt them.  

 SouthernSteve 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

>My only concern was that I might inadvertently and irreversibly install an OS upgrade that bricks the laptop! Sounds like that can’t happen....right? Or wrong? 

That would be tough with your machine and the OS options you have. There have been some bricked machines upgrading to Big Sur, but that update has been withdrawn for the older machines. 

If you have the patience and all the software a 'clean' install will give you the best chance of a good result. 

 SouthernSteve 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

Yes. Lightroom in Rosetta 2 is faster than any intel laptop at exporting photos and is to be updated  to be native to the chipset in the next 6 months.

 SouthernSteve 06 Dec 2020
In reply to mik82:

> Apple are (again) going through a transition

Again seems a bit harsh after 14 years! 

 mrphilipoldham 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

The new MBPs are significantly thinner than your 2012 edition, and not really that much bigger than the Airs relatively speaking. I'm running a 2017 one on Big Sur now and it generally still flies with photo editing - caveat being at the moment it's not but I've got about 20gb free on my SSD which always slows it down. It's the 3.1ghz i5 with 8gb ram and will quite happily chug through HD video editing too, so I can only imagine newer models with a fresh install will be more than enough for your requirements. 

The only complaint I'd have is that USB-C has to be the worst version ever, my CF card reader never sits in and I need to unplug it in order to reseat it every time I change card. Same goes for the power cable, forever slightly dropping out and leaving me with a half empty battery as I'm going out of the door!! 

 SouthernSteve 06 Dec 2020
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> The only complaint I'd have is that USB-C

I did initially agree, but the USB ports have definitely improved (2019 Intel and 2020 Silicon [although this latter one is shared so not so much exposure]) and seem awkwardly tight on occasions compared  to the others I have used (2016 MacBook and 2017 MacBook Pro).

 mrphilipoldham 06 Dec 2020
In reply to SouthernSteve:

Roll on my current one being wiped out by an errant football!

OP Si Withington 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

Whats the deal with the whole USB-4 with Thunderbolt thing? My current MBP has a couple of USBs AND a Thunderbolt port, which is a very different shape to the USBs. Has Thunderbolt morphed into a USB shaped plug?

 SouthernSteve 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

> Has Thunderbolt morphed into a USB shaped plug?

Yes - you can plug in both TB and USB accessories in the same socket

OP Si Withington 06 Dec 2020
In reply to SouthernSteve:

So my current TB cables need upgrading?

 SouthernSteve 06 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

You can buy converters, these are great for data transmission, but if you have a hard disk for instance that needs power via the TB cable that may not work.

 StefanB 07 Dec 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> Thanks. My only concern was that I might inadvertently and irreversibly install an OS upgrade that bricks the laptop! Sounds like that can’t happen....right? Or wrong? 

"Bricking" should not happen. What has happened to me in the past though (more so with iPads and iPhones) is that new versions considerably slow the thing down and reduce battery life. My first-generation iPad became unusable after a few OS upgrades.  

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 Blue Straggler 10 Dec 2020
In reply to StefanB:

Thanks, that’s kind of what I meant. It appears that I used the wrong terminology - does bricking specifically mean actually rendering it fully inoperable, like impossible to power up? I intended to mean “either impossible to power up OR so slow that it might as well never be used”, to me that’s the same outcome but I am happy to learn if “bricked” is very specific. 

 SouthernSteve 10 Dec 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Bricked does mean not usable rather than just slowed down.

 gravy 10 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

Stick linux on it - it's got plenty of life in it yet.

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cb294 10 Dec 2020
In reply to Si Withington:

Not had time to go through the entire thread, but I just upgraded from my 2009 Macbook Pro at work (I also have a standalone imac) to the 2020 model. No comparison, really.

The only problem is Adobe. I bought the CS6 suite via work, and it does not work anymore with new OS.

Since I am unwilling to participate in the subscription racket, it is open source from now on. Photoshop is better than GIMP for my purposes, but not by much.

Inkscape, in contrast, is way better than Illustrator anyway (again, for my purposes).

I just wish I had waited for the new M1 processor (I deliberately did not, preferring a good deal on the old kit).

The reviews are so good, however, that I am actually considering to go that route when I upgrade my private MB2009 as well, rather than buying a use 2018 or 19 Intel model.

CB

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