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Belay Stake for Bob Hope - Dovestones Quarry

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 George Frisby 18 May 2020

Dovestones QuarryBob Hope (E4 6a)

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there is still a large belay stake for the anchor of Bob Hope at the Dovestone Quarries. One is mentioned in the guide but when I went up and had a look for one in the autumn of 2019 I couldn't find one. Maybe it was just because there was a lot of heather at the time. There seems to be no other belay options when I had a look before. 

Thanks, George. 

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 Rick Graham 18 May 2020
In reply to George Frisby:

Sorry for a mild hijack but if anybody needs them I have several lengths of galvanised scaffold tube appropriated for this possibility . A lot have gone into backing up and replacing the ones around slate quarries hereabouts  but the rest are spare to anybody who wants them. Spare sledgehammers if required also.

Usual caveats about not upsetting the farmer/landowner/punters tripping up .

Post edited at 16:22
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 George Frisby 18 May 2020
In reply to Rick Graham:

Thanks Rick, that would be really helpful if we can't rediscover the previous one.

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In reply to George Frisby:

Never found it! There is gear to ab from but its a total pain in the ass. 

No risk of tripping up walkers - the hill is so steep!

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 Tom V 18 May 2020
In reply to ashtond6:

I'm incredulous that anyone is suggesting the descent from the Lower Right Quarry is best done by abseil. 

And I wouldn't be so dismissive of the terrain walkers might venture into.

Post edited at 19:25
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In reply to Tom V:

> I'm incredulous that anyone is suggesting the descent from the Lower Right Quarry is best done by abseil. 

Is anyone suggesting that?  Maybe someone might need to retrieve some gear (or maybe just check out a crucial finger jam).

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 Tom V 18 May 2020
In reply to Dave Garnett:

F*ck me.

Is that what climbing has come to, where you ab down a route to check out a crucial finger jam. ?

I assume anyone claiming a lead after this will accept a reduction from E4 6a (in the case of Bob Hope)

I look forward to hearing about people abbing down Hargreaves' Original to check out the friend placements.

Post edited at 19:48
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 ste_d 18 May 2020
In reply to George Frisby:

Sorry I can't remember, it's donkeys since I did it

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 Tom V 18 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

Rather than disliking, perhaps put me straight about how such an ascent is registered in the UKC logbook and how it's differentiated from an onsight ascent? Because I assume there is a difference.

It's OK I've found it "Clean with beta".  

Edit: A bit sad to find that searching UKC for styles of ascent led me to a thread posted by The Ivanator in 2014. I'll shut up now.

Post edited at 20:45
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In reply to Tom V:

> F*ck me.

> Is that what climbing has come to, where you ab down a route to check out a crucial finger jam. ?

Actually I wasn’t being entirely serious about that, but if someone did want to ab down to have a quick look, or even to top rope it, would that be such a problem, as long as they didn’t claim otherwise?

As it happens, I think it’s one to onsight, but I also think you’re hyperventilating a bit.  And if I did onsight it, I might still fancy a decent belay at the top.

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 Tom V 18 May 2020
In reply to Dave Garnett:

Not hyperventilating, I was just a bit confused about what constitutes an onsight but the beta thing clears it up a bit.

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 Baz P 18 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

I did this route many years ago and didn’t ab down it and don’t ab down to inspect routes but what the hell has it got to do with you if somebody does this?

People can do and claim what they want so long as they don’t damage the route or ab on top of me. Also I’ve never looked at UKC logbooks so couldn’t care less what somebody claims.

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 George Frisby 19 May 2020
In reply to ashtond6:

Looked like absolutely nothing else up there but a very steep, loose heather slope! Out of interest, what did you use to make the anchor? I've been put off trying the route as it looked like it'd be impossible to bring up a second or ab down and get the gear back. 

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In reply to George Frisby:

I seem to remember that there is gear a long way back (this is a 25 year old memory, so a bit hazy....).

Maybe when we did it we....set up the anchors then untied, attached the lead end of the rope to the anchors then carefully walked down to the edge and tied back into the rope then belayed. In truth you could ab that way assuming you sorted your belay anchors as ab anchors. All a bit of a faff I admit.....

Quality route though!!!!

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 Tom V 19 May 2020
In reply to Baz P:

People can claim  a lead when they've only top roped it or can even claim a lead just by looking at it and imagining the moves , but as you say ,it's nothing the hell to do with me.

Post edited at 08:55
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 Baz P 19 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

Sorry if I was a bit sharp, just got fed up of reading posts that quickly deteriorate into arguments. 

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 Rick Graham 19 May 2020
In reply to Baz P:

> Sorry if I was a bit sharp, just got fed up of reading posts that quickly deteriorate into arguments. 

Looking at the numerous dislikes, you are not alone in that opinion.

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In reply to George Frisby:

I did pedestal crack next to it 20 years ago. My missus came up with me for the walk and was happy to belay but didn't want to climb so I had to ab down and get my gear out. I remember it was a total 'mare setting up a belay. I think (it was a long time ago) I need to use my two ropes tied together and walk miles up the hill about face to find any boulders that looked worth slinging. She was getting eaten by the midges down below at this point so she wasn't best pleased with how long all this took me! Oh happy memories! ;-)

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 Tom V 19 May 2020
In reply to Baz P:

No you were right, people can claim whatever they want. Ultimately what matters is your own conscience.

On a different note I'm pretty sure there was a stake there when i followed my mate up it but without checking can only put a date to it in my mind by recalling it was the first day I'd worn my stripey Troll Omnis

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In reply to Tom V:

> I'm incredulous that anyone is suggesting the descent from the Lower Right Quarry is best done by abseil. 

u OK mate?!? wrong side of the bed or something?

No one is suggesting such a thing, I had to ab as after I completed the route, my partner didn't want to second it. Does that meet your ethical requirements?

I was simply giving some helpful advice to a fellow UKC'er who was looking for a stake, telling him there are other options available. 

Thanks for your valuable contribution. 

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 Rick Graham 19 May 2020
In reply to ashtond6:

Give him a break. 

He's trying to backpedal.

Maybe a bit more would help

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 Tom V 19 May 2020
In reply to Rick Graham:

For the erroneous assumption that anyone would ever ab down a trad route rather than walk round the edge of the crag, and not even thinking about gear retrieval, I apologise unreservedly.

As for being surprised that anyone would ab down a trad route to check out a finger lock,  I've accepted that it's got absolutely f*ck all to do with me.The same applies to the way they write it up, whether a tick in a guidebook or a published record like the UKC log.

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In reply to Tom V:

BTW, to your original question of how to record it in a logbook if you had abbed the route first and checked out gear, cleaned, practiced a move etc. I think that's a headpoint, not just an ascent with beta. I suppose it's a personal thing, but I don't think a headpoint/redpoint is only if you've practiced a route extensively, on a top rope or bolt to bolt/gear to gear. 

I've alway taken a "with beta" ascent to be one when you've got more info about the route than what the guidebook says. If I'm sport climbing and my friend who is better than me (they all are!) goes first, and I belay him, then I do the route after him, well it's not an onsight because I've just watch him climb the whole route. But abbing down the route, especially if you do anything like check the holds or gear placements is more than that - so for me it's then a headpoint/redpoint.

That's my system anyway.

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 Tom V 19 May 2020
In reply to TobyA:

As one whose terminology was limited to

soloed

led

seconded

top-roped

dogged/frigged

I'd like to say thank you for a helpful and informative  attempt to lessen my ignorance.

I have a funny feeling that your reply might open another can of worms suitable for a new thread so.....

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 mark20 19 May 2020

I've got stakes and a sledge hammer in Sheffield if anyone ever wants them for anything. Might be easier after a bit of rain though, the ground will be rock hard at the moment.

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 Ian Carr 19 May 2020
In reply to George Frisby:

Hi George, there was one, but a long time ago. I’d be happy to help put one back in. Take up Rick’s offer of a new stake or two. May need to leave it a month or so, because the RSPB don’t like climbers in the Quarry because of nesting peregrines. Although they are in the main quarry. Ian

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 Baz P 20 May 2020
In reply to Tom V:

If I can add "gave it a miss" to your list, then I totally agree.

A lot of people think too deeply about someone else's method of ascent. 

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 Tom V 20 May 2020
In reply to Baz P:

I may have been guilty of that myself......   

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 George Frisby 23 May 2020
In reply to Ian Carr:

Thanks Ian, I've got in touch with the BMC rep to see if replacing it will be ok.  

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In reply to George Frisby:

Out of curiosity, why do you need to ask? Can't anyone just go up there and replace it? Or do they have to speak to the landowner first?

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 Rick Graham 23 May 2020
In reply to sharpendclimbing:

> Out of curiosity, why do you need to ask? Can't anyone just go up there and replace it? Or do they have to speak to the landowner first?

It depends on the situation and history of the climbing location.

Sometimes it is essential to request permission, but often just easier to be discrete and get on with it.

I have not been for a few years but think a few replacement stakes at Dovestones probably comes in the second category.

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In reply to George Frisby:

Hi George, just get on with it I'd say. Sometimes asking the question gets you on the radar and causes more issues!

During lockdown I've put belay stakes in above four crags and haven't asked anyone, but that's because I'm naughty.

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 Chris Shorter 23 May 2020
In reply to Mike_d78:

> I seem to remember that there is gear a long way back (this is a 25 year old memory, so a bit hazy....).

>

This is my recollection too: there was a metal stake but not much of it clear of the ground and way back. Probably a similar length of time ago for me too!

Post edited at 17:09
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