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Building up to Resurrection: Route recommendations?

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So after 1 broken leg, 3 national lockdowns, 2 blown pulleys and 1 bout of elbow tendinitis, I finished 2021 on a high with my first sport 7b redpoint (thanks to everyone for the route recommendations!). But I want 2022 to be the year I return seriously to trad, and my long-term ambition of climbing (preferably onsighting) Resurrection (E4 6a)

End of 2019 I was a solid E2 climber, but I'm now a stronger and much more well-rounded sport climber. Trad didn't really happen in 2020 due to my foot not being properly attached to my leg for a part of it, and in 2021 I focused much more on getting back to, and then going beyond, my old physical capabilities. (I head-pointed one E4 back in 2019 (The Mau Mau (E4 6a), but that's not really relevant to the present goals!)

So I'll need to spend the spring months of 2022 taking it a bit easier and just re-familiarising myself with placing gear efficiently and safely etc. But once that's all dialled back in I want to start working through routes that will serve as a good build-up to Resurrection. Hence things in the E3 to low E4 range, on similar kind of terrain. Stuff in North Wales has an obvious advantage, especially on rhyolite, but I actually live in London, so really routes can be anywhere as it all involves a weekend's drive anyway.

So far I've got some obvious contenders:

Foil (E3 6a)

Stroll On (E3 6a)

Left Wall Direct Finish (E3 5c)

The Sun (E3 5c)

The Mask of the Red Death (E3 5c)

But I'm keen for more!

Cheers

Post edited at 13:09
 Shani 14:09 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

No idea why you're getting downvoted.

In reply to Shani:

Some people apparently don't like climbing being discussed on UKC.

 Slackboot 14:29 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

 I hope you have a good, injury free year and manage Resurrection (E4 6a). The Cromlech is a great crag.

Post edited at 14:31
In reply to Paul Sagar:

It’s an easier route on the crux if you are tall. So increase your height as much as you can is my tip!!!

 AJM 14:58 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

I've only done left wall direct and the sun off your list, but (whilst good and in North Wales) I'm not sure The Sun (E3 5c) has much else to recommend it as a stepping stone - it's easier, but a totally different style. Left Wall Direct Finish (E3 5c) obviously has a lot more in common - and is probably the full width of a grade easier?

In the run up to trying Resurrection (E4 6a) (I fell off the top) I spent a bunch of time in the lakes, so a bunch of the things that spring to mind are there - Prana (E3 5c)Grand Alliance (E4 6a), some of the E3s on  Reecastle Crag, perhaps Equus (E2 5c) (honestly, not that similar in style but mountain rock and very very good, and probably harder than the Reecastle E3s). I've not done it but rather suspect if you can do Eastern Hammer (E3 6a) you are in with a good chance on Resurrection.

I've not done much there but have you considered places like High Tor, or some of the other good bits of inland limestone. Bound to be a decent selection there.

Edit: oh, and in terms of vert wall climbs to build base fitness on, you could obviously do worse than some of the longer/better stuff on the west side of Portland...

Post edited at 14:59
In reply to AJM:

Thanks!

I did Left Wall Direct on second (in an approach shoe!) at the end of 2020 so I'm pretty confident I can do that on lead without trouble. The Sun is very much just a stepping stone route in the plan: got to break into E3 somehow!

We were planning on trying to go to the Lakes a bit more this year (after getting almost entirely rained out last year, when up there for a wedding) so those are great recommendations - I'll add them to my new ticklist.

And yep, there will be plenty of Portland training climbing going on, especially in the spring. Current thought is to do Saturdays at Portland climbing 7a-7b routes, then swinging over to Swanage on Sundays and getting back into trad initially on easier routes.

In reply to neilh:

I'll start attaching ankle weights to my ankles when doing passive hangs then!

In reply to AJM:

p.s. good shout on High Tor - I've been meaning to get the classic 'D' routes there done for ages. 

 AJM 17:12 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

I realised I got my ordering entirely the wrong way round and the Lakes was actually after Resurrection, but still, it was at a similar sort of time.

Let me know if you're down on the Isle.

I had a flick back through my log for that sort of time to think of any more ideas, and there were a few things at Avon/Cheddar/locale that were fairly steep walls, potentially some of the Suicide Wall routes at Idwal, and there's obviously plenty of things at Sharpnose - Diamond Smiles is the only E3 I've done there but I suspect many of them could work.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

If you’ve redpointed 7B you should walk Resurrection, which can only be 6B+ or 6C at most and it’s well protected.

 robate 17:49 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

I also don't know why the downvotes..

However Tremadog is a clear venue and a route which is different in style but would lead on well to Resurrection imho is Void. Well protected, quite hard work but really good, and can be dry any time.

 AJM 17:52 Sat
In reply to Philb1950:

I thought Right Wall was usually the canvas on which the "how low a French grade can I claim for it" game was played...

 Misha 17:53 Sat
In reply to Philb1950:

It’s not that well protected at the bottom. You need to be able to hang around a bit to fiddle gear in and move on despite the gear not being bomber. After that the gear gets better and easier to place. However the E is for effort, not gear (unlike RW). It’s pretty sustained, although there are a few (semi) rests. I’d say 6c to 6c+ with the RH finish. LH isn’t much easier. Certainly not 6b+.

It’s a classic face endurance route, so that’s what you’ve got to do to build up to it. Onsighting (or at least trying to onsight) sport face routes around 7a should help. Somewhere like Llanymynech, Portland or Masson (once it dries out).

Moving on to trad, anything up to E4 at crags like High Tor, Chee Tor, Wintour’s and Avon would be good mileage (Wintour’s and Avon are a bit different of course but all good mileage and you can seek out the face routes there as opposed to traverses, overhangs and cracks). Pembroke would be great training as well as there’s no shortage of long face routes there. In fact that might be your best bet but obviously tides and conditions are big limiting factors. Swanage is obviously a very different style.

In the Pass, the ones you mentioned, plus some of the less well known E2/3 routes on the Cromlech (some are quite bold and get you used to fiddly rhyolite gear). Also the smaller crags on the other side of the Pass with routes like El Guide Direct. Plus the E4 on Scimitar - not exactly a face route but good to try.

The Sun is more of a crack / groove route but Mask of the Red Death is more like a face route. Have a look at the E3/4 routes in Fallen Block Zawn as well - mostly different style mostly but all good mileage.

There’s a school of thought that RW is actually easier than Resurrection because it has two resting ledges. This is probably right but RW is less well protected on the whole and you wouldn’t want to clip one of those ledges, especially the second one and especially with a recent ankle injury. There are two places where people typically fall off, one is around half way up where it’s a clean fall (I’ve tested it) and the other above the second ledge where you have to be skilful or lucky (I’ve seen someone fall off there and miss the ledge but I suspect it’s claimed a few victims over the years). Whereas on Resurrection it’s a clean fall anywhere really, though you don’t want to fall off on the lower section.

 Misha 17:57 Sat
In reply to AJM:

Ah yes, Sharpnose - all the classics there!

The Lakes are hard to get in good condition and I suspect the Pass will be in condition more often. Plus it’s a fair bit further from London. Lots of mid level crags with great routes in the Lakes though.

 Misha 18:00 Sat
In reply to robate:

Tremadog has its own techy style which is quite different to Resurrection and some people seem to hate it. Good mileage for sure. The Cream headwall is the closest in style to the Cromlech. A few routes there and a few ways to get up there.

 AJM 18:04 Sat
In reply to Misha:

Yeah, the Lakes is generally a bit less convenient, particularly for Paul who has a club hut in Capel, but only Gimmer is particularly "high mountain" on my list (Black Crag and Reecastle are clearly mid-valley) and as these things go it's a fairly undemanding one for conditions - it's hardly scafell! 

Post edited at 18:10
 Cake 18:30 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

I'm not going to recommend a route as I don't climb that hard, but for me, it's worth trying some routes of the same grade (for you, E4) which I care less about before the 'big on-sight', with all that pressure. Maybe get a couple in before you go to the Cromlech.

 CurlyStevo 18:33 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Swanage is worth considering. Closer to london, amazing situation, quiet, lots of multi stared e grade climbing and a lot of climbs with pretty good gear and relatively safe fall zones. Its also a sun trap in spring. I can't advise on specific climbs as E4 is well above my grade. Don't bother with subliminal.

Post edited at 18:34
 lurcher 18:56 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

If you can do Stroll on and Foil without any drama  then game on I'd say.  Sun at Rhoscolyn path in comparison. 

Was going to suggest Strike at Gogarth but that might be given E4 now anyway..!  

Enjoy Resurrection.  I've done it a couple of times and each time it was the bottom bit that slowed me down a bit just got to push on a bit knowing better holds and gear will appear.   Don't hang around up the top bit. It's still an easier lead than RW although I did RW before Resurrection for some reason.! . 

In reply to Misha:

>  I’d say 6c to 6c+ with the RH finish. LH isn’t much easier. Certainly not 6b+.

But the LH finish is a bit run out and therefore very exciting if pumped. The RH finish eases pretty quickly after one hard well protected move. Well that's how I remember them anyway.

In reply to Misha:

I'd love to do more in Pembroke, but the extra drive time from London does mean other places tend to get plumbed for instead. Then again we bought a van for this kind of thing, and it's not THAT much further than North Wales!

Chee Tor is another good shout - if only tick off Sirplum (E1 5b), which I've wanted to do since I learned to trad climb and still not gotten around to. I actually seconded Right Wall in 2019, and fell off near the top. Not sure I'll ever get on that tying into the sharp end - the falls would be humungous!

In reply to Cake:

Yeah that was my thought too! Back in 2019 the big goal was Left Wall (E2 5c). I'd done a few E2s by that point and it ended up being a breeze - which I was quite grateful for!

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Your list is a pretty good start - I'd done all those by the time I got around to doing Resurrection and perhaps not surprisingly Foil and Stroll On would be the best benchmarks - as someone else has commented, if you do those OK then you're in with a good chance. Basically you're after longish sustained, vertical wall climbs so maybe also consider Cloggy as well as Pembroke and High Tor mentioned elsewhere.

One top tip would be to decide which of the two finishes you plan to do BEFORE setting off - you can waste a lot of energy dithering when you get there otherwise! Here's a blog post from when my son did it, with a few pics for psyche / inspiration (but no major beta spoilers)

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2018/05/30/resurrection/

Enjoy! Cheers, Dom 

 Si dH 21:16 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

I haven't done Resurrection. I'm not convinced that either Foil or Left Wall will really prepare you for it physically... neither are really very sustained in their difficulty. Foil is much shorter and has a fairly distinct crux. However they are both brilliant routes and it's definitely good to be comfy with the rock type when climbing at your limit.

If you want to look for sustained E3s on limestone then I would definitely recommend a visit to Chee Tor. High Tor is absolutely brilliant but the style is mostly a tiny bit more on your feet I think. Still obviously worth a trip and don't stop at the D's, do Robert Brown, Perseus and Lyme Cryme when you've done Darius. You should also go to Dovedale and do Adjudicator Wall, hard E3 doesn't get any better (disclaimer, I fell off near the top.)

Post edited at 21:17
 racodemisa 21:18 Sat
In reply to Paul Sagar:

How about Them..Arms race and Mirage on the upper sea walls Avon gorge ? All high quality endurance RTS albeit with different climbing styles.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

A good one fashioned psyche enducing thread, love it. I'll throw Memory Lane (E3 5c) into the mix; along with Foil they seem like good stepping stones to the harder Cromlech lines. Not done Foil but Memory Lane was a good tick for feeling the long pitch exposure of the Cromlech. 

Best of luck with you 2022 ticklish

 Misha 02:38 Sun
In reply to lurcher:

Strike is indeed E4 now, fairly different style though. Stroll On I found ok and most of it isn’t that hard from memory. Foil is pretty sustained though.

 Misha 02:42 Sun
In reply to racodemisa:

Arms Race is well worth a blast. Just don’t be put off if you don’t manage it onsight or clean! The Ramp is brilliant for endurance and minimal faff with the lower offs.

 Misha 02:45 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Just don’t turn up at Chee Tor looking for Sirplum. It’s at a crag at the other end of Chee Dale, a good 20 minute walk away. Pretty much all the E1s to E4s at Chee Tor are great.

Post edited at 02:47
 Misha 02:48 Sun
In reply to Robert Durran:

There’s a bit more trucking along the crack on the RH finish followed by a tricky move or two. As you say, less of a fall. 

In reply to AJM:

RW I find much harder to lead than R, because it’s run out. But there’s no harm in making grade comparisons, especially from people who have years experience of both and it illustrates how people have lost the ability to climb so called trad. to their full potential.

 Jon Stewart 09:53 Sun
In reply to AJM:

> I've not done it but rather suspect if you can do Eastern Hammer (E3 6a) you are in with a good chance on Resurrection.

Me neither. Done resurrection, but never been up to Eastern Hammer. Everyone falls off that, must be a fair bit harder than resurrection. 

Good call on Reecastle - White Noise is maybe like a shorter and less sustained Resurrection. 

> I've not done much there but have you considered places like High Tor

Definitely. Darius isn't that far off resurrection! Chee Tor is great for working up the grades with a bunch of superb pumpy wall climbs. Like Eastern Hammer, the top E3s must be way harder than Resurrection...Everyone falls off Queer Street of course!

 Darkinbad 10:02 Sun
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Don't try Eastern Hammer first. It will only discourage you.

Not that it isn't a great route.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

No advice to give but a wholehearted "best wishes and good luck"

p.s.  <expletive> any downvotes, look at the upvotes

 Jon Stewart 10:17 Sun
In reply to Darkinbad:

Do you think Prana and Grand Alliance are easier or harder than Resurrection? 

 kingholmesy 10:24 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

I’d say just go and climb loads of E3s. I don’t think the style really matters, it’s more important that you are comfortable placing and trusting gear, and being happy to press on when you are finding the climbing physically taxing.

My other suggestion is that your sport climbing days will be better spent trying to onsight routes close to your limit, rather than red pointing harder stuff. I think onsighting will be better training physically and mentally.

If you can consistently onsight 6c+/7a and have a decent amount of trad experience you should be fine on Resurrection.

 AJM 10:30 Sun
In reply to Philb1950:

I think there may be people who can cruise Resurrection having done 1 7b redpoint, but I suspect it's a smaller cohort these days. 

I would tend to go with ~6c/+ for Resurrection personally, which isn't out of line with what others on this thread have said. If it was a well protected 6b+ it would either be E3, or be commonly known to be fairly soft. I think you could argue that if you can onsight 6c/+ with a couple of kilos of trad rack hanging off you whilst stopping to faff with wires at regular intervals then you should be able to onsight 7a/+ fairly comfortably on bolts without that weight, at which point 7b redpoint looks like underperformance in redpoint terms (usual rule of thumb is 3-4 grades difference between max onsight and redpoint).

 AJM 10:31 Sun
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Do you think Prana and Grand Alliance are easier or harder than Resurrection? 

Easier.....

 Sean Kelly 10:35 Sun
In reply to Gabe Oliver:

> A good one fashioned psyche enducing thread, love it. I'll throw Memory Lane (E3 5c) into the mix; along with Foil they seem like good stepping stones to the harder Cromlech lines. Not done Foil but Memory Lane was a good tick for feeling the long pitch exposure of the Cromlech. 

> Best of luck with you 2022 ticklish

...and a long reach I seem to recall!

In reply to Misha:

Haha good point. (When you live in London, a crag 20 minutes walk away from another counts as the same place!)

In reply to dominic o:

Cheers, that's super helpful - have to say, currently leaning towards the RH finish...

 B-team 11:01 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

In the Pass "What a Difference a Day Makes," "El Guide Direct," and "Rembrandt Pussyhorse" would all provide some good prep, as would "Rimsky" (albeit at E5). 

In reply to kingholmesy:

Yep, that is what I was going to do with the sport climbing. TBH I realised last year that I actually find redpointing really stressful anyway, so I'm more than happy just to go onsight climbing as much as possible.

 Darkinbad 11:06 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

> Cheers, that's super helpful - have to say, currently leaning towards the RH finish...

It's the natural climbing line. The LH requires a conscious decision to launch out into the unknown.

 Darkinbad 11:11 Sun
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Do you think Prana and Grand Alliance are easier or harder than Resurrection? 

Haven't done either. But if you are looking for peers of Resurrection in the Lakes, then Holocaust might fit the bill.

 seankenny 11:15 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

> I'd love to do more in Pembroke, but the extra drive time from London does mean other places tend to get plumbed for instead. Then again we bought a van for this kind of thing, and it's not THAT much further than North Wales!

I’ve always found Pembroke a much easier and quicker drive from London than N Wales, especially coming home. I happily do overnight hits to Pembroke which I’d never do for Snowdonia. And often much less driving once you’re actually there. 

Thanks all, this has been super helpful and very psyche-inducing (which I definitely needed - have been feeling a bit un-motivated since the end of last year; classic post goal-achievement blues).

Got a nice ticklish coming along now. To be honest, doing this lot in 2022 would be ruddy good year in and of itself, regardless of what happens on Resurrection!

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?sort=gr&id=5612

 Jon Stewart 11:29 Sun
In reply to Darkinbad:

> Haven't done either. But if you are looking for peers of Resurrection in the Lakes, then Holocaust might fit the bill.

Or indeed Tumble. One Step Beyond has thinner climbing than Resurrection, but is bolder and an easier route.

 AJM 11:38 Sun
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Or indeed Tumble. One Step Beyond has thinner climbing than Resurrection, but is bolder and an easier route.

Tumble is high on my Lakes list. The last day of the fortnight trip in which I'd done my first E4, then tried Resurrection, then done Equus, Prana, Grand Alliance and so on, and we started walking into Dow on a sweltering muggy day (so much so that we got midges on the summit). Ambitions tumbled, so to speak - it was going to be Tumble when we left the car park, but by the time we got half way up the scree from the tarn there were mutterings about how Eliminate A would offer a nice day out. Eventually, after giving ourselves a bit of a talking to and because we knew it was dry and had been done recently, we did Side Walk (E2 5b).

Still never been back when on form enough for it to be worth a crack.

In reply to AJM:

I hear what you’re saying, but more often than not I couldn’t often onsight 7A, but it was very rarely that I failed on an onsight  E5. For comparison, some old Peak grades from Horshoe quarry before french grades were applied. Shot yer bolt, 6B, sustained E3 5C, Run for your wife 6C+, E4 6B and probably 2 grades harder technically, than Resurrection and Nice face 6B+, formerly E4 6B and again harder.

 AJM 12:06 Sun
In reply to Philb1950:

Were you just very bold? Or were the E5s you did very different in style from the sports routes you tried?

It's a curious place to be, particularly given most grade conversions suggest that reasonably physical and well protected E5s could have Fr7a climbing on them.

 seankenny 13:28 Sun
In reply to thread:

Its clear that the “E5/7a discussion” is UKC’s new “what grade is Three Pebble Slab”! More interesting and productive tho. Just to add a rider to Phil’s comments re Horseshoe, I did a route on the main wall there and thought it was a good grade out (stern 6c rather than 6b+). If that holds true across the wall then perhaps Phil and Andy’s points are not so different after all. 


Great thread and I love Paul’s ticklist.

Post edited at 13:29
In reply to Paul Sagar:

> Yep, that is what I was going to do with the sport climbing. TBH I realised last year that I actually find redpointing really stressful anyway, so I'm more than happy just to go onsight climbing as much as possible.

Don't know if you have any trips abroad planned but some of the climbing in the Siurana area would be great prep towards Resurrection, particularly El Falco, long sustained vert routes in in the 6c-7a+ range with sometimes spaced bolting to add a bit of spice.  

In reply to Ian Patterson:

Unfortunately we just booked a week in Leonidio over April - but now you point it out Siurana would actually have been a better bet!

(Although actually my partner only leads up to about 6b+ and I don’t think she would enjoy Siurana’s famously tasty bolting!)

 Misha 20:23 Sun
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Darius is nowhere near Resurrection! I don’t recall much about Eastern Hammer except that it has some hard moves. Don’t think it’s anywhere as long or sustained as Resurrection though. Queer Street might be similar though. Different style but that’s the thing about the Cromlech, it’s the epitome of face climbing and there isn’t that much pure face climbing around at that grade - our trad routes tend to be more featured.

 Misha 20:25 Sun
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Prana is certainly easier. GA has much shorter pitches, the crux might be a bit harder but overall probably easier on any given pitch. I may be misremembering. 

 Jon Stewart 20:26 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Great ticklist!

Just seen that (gasp!) Darius (E3 5c) has been upgraded! Whatever next? I mean, I think it's blatantly E3 (could also be 6a?) and way more so than Scoop Wall (E2 5c) but I've always seen it as one of those "benchmark sandbags" - the line in the sand against grade inflation. Apparently not...

Post edited at 20:27
 Misha 20:27 Sun
In reply to B-team:

What a Difference is nails at E4 and Rimsky is E5 as you say. Both harder than Ressurrection but great routes. 

In reply to Misha:

> Prana is certainly easier. GA has much shorter pitches, the crux might be a bit harder but overall probably easier on any given pitch. 

I remember GA feeling really quite run out once commited to the hard bit. A lot scarier than Resurrection.

 Misha 20:37 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Great list. How about adding Fay and Break on Through at Sharpnose to make it 25…

In reply to Misha:

And thus adding some further impetus to *finally* go to Sharpnose! (Last time I was down that way, I'd fallen off Sacre Coeur (E2 5c) on the Friday, after forgetting to put my helmet on, and was sporting a fantastic fully-closed up black eye, several stitches, and a dollop of concussion, so didn't end up going further down the coast with others that weekend!)

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Totally agree Darius (E3 5c) is harder than Scoop Wall (E2 5c), it’s also harder than The Sun (E3 5c) and Left Wall Direct Finish (E3 5c).

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Certain equippers are better bolted than others, you just need to know what names to look for  

 Fellover 22:41 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

> Cheers, that's super helpful - have to say, currently leaning towards the RH finish...

If you want to fall off while safely trying hard do the right hand finish, if you want to actually onsight the route, do the left hand finish.

I think the right hand finish is nails (couldn't work out how to do it atall) and the left hand is a lot easier. I'd also say the left hand finish is perfectly natural, it's a really pretty obvious line of holds going up and left when the crack going rightwards becomes impossibly difficult.

 Fellover 22:56 Sun
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Also, rather going against the grain of the thread:

I think 6b+ is fair for Resurrection, the 6c's in Horseshoe that someone brought up are noticeably harder imho.

I certainly can't reliably onsight 7a on bolts (I had to dog a 6b+ at Swanage on Saturday) so I don't think that's a requirement you need to worry about.

 Darkinbad 23:12 Sun
In reply to Fellover:

I'm sure you're right. It is a long time since I climbed them, but I did the RH finish the first time, probably because climbing a protected crack comes more 'naturally' to me. I can remember it had a pretty stiff move and quite possibly it has also lost some holds over the years. Later, I climbed it via the LH finish and I found it required a distinct mental effort to leave the crack. Both are good. Never heard of anyone doing the Redhead finish (other the eponymous first ascentionist).

 Misha 01:25 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Don’t fall off on slabs…

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Blimey, 6b+ for Resurrection, eh? I wouldn't say so myself, but I'm not good at guessing how stuff would feel if you didn't have to hang on and put the gear in.

Someone suggested Holocaust; it's a very different route. Resurrection is endurance; Holocaust cruxy and then slightly scary.

jcm

In reply to seankenny:

>I’ve always found Pembroke a much easier and quicker drive from London than N Wales, especially coming home.

Really?? I'd say NW was quicker if anything. But it has got slower with the restrictions on the M1.

jcm

 AlanLittle 07:16 Mon
In reply to AJM:

> I thought Right Wall was usually the canvas on which the "how low a French grade can I claim for it" game was played...

I've seen 6a suggested for Flashdance (E5 6a)

 seankenny 07:47 Mon
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

> >I’ve always found Pembroke a much easier and quicker drive from London than N Wales, especially coming home.

> Really?? I'd say NW was quicker if anything. But it has got slower with the restrictions on the M1.

Pembroke is motorway and dual carriageway nearly all the way. Whereas the direct route to NW absolutely isn’t, and whilst the indirect route is on big roads, it’s also a fair bit further. 

In reply to Paul Sagar:

There's already been loads of good suggestions, and I don't think I've got anything all that original to add; however, I couldn't not get back to a thread about Resurrection, as it's a route I feel strongly about on a crag that means a lot to me.

As a bit of background, I tried Resurrection (note: tried) as one of my early-ish E4s. Unfortunately I don't have an exact record of what I did in/around that time (which would have been really useful), but I suspect it involved the exact routes that are mentioned above: Stroll On, Quasar, Mural, Foil. That specificity of rock type really helped, although didn't help enough, as I found myself getting pretty pumped high up. At the time I didn't do much sport climbing, and I think that would have made a massive difference, although from having done a lot of sport climbing since I'd say to stick to onsight/flash sport climbing rather than get sucked into the redpoint, as the style of the former is very much one of fight, recover and attack. It also teaches you how to rest, and the difference a marginal rest can make, plus how far you can continue when the red light starts flashing. Redpointing gets you good at pre-practising a certain set of moves, which - at least in my opinion - isn't overly helpful as far as trad is concerned.

One piece of advice I was given in/around that was from dark horse Dan McManus, who said "go and get pumped as much as possible". Whilst this may not be the most sophisticated piece of training advice, I think there's a brilliance in its simplicity. One of the most valuable lessons as far as trad is concerned is that when you feel comfortable and relaxed, everything feels easier. If you find yourself becoming nervous the moment you get pumped above gear, you're going to over grip, and if you over grip then everything becomes more challenging. Were I to play devil's advocate perhaps I'd flip what Dan said on its head and say "go out and learn to relax as much as possible". The two statements are potentially the same, albeit with a slightly different focus. 

When it comes to the LH vs. RH finish I'd personally opt for the latter. I've done both and think that the ease/difficulty of each is wildly exaggerated (the LH isn't that easy, the RH isn't that hard). If anything, I'd say that the RH finish is easier, as it has the benefit of being over a lot, lot sooner.

We can discuss Right Wall another time

In reply to Paul Sagar:

The E3s at Chee Tor, as someone mentioned above, would be great training. There's loads of them and they're easily accessible: Absent Friends (E3 5c), Rave On (E3 5c)Less Than Zero (E3 5c)Approaching (E3 5c)Splintered Perspex (E3 6a) (more like E4/5), Of Youth (E3 5c)42nd Street (E3 5c). There's just so many at one crag and they'd probably be graded E3-5 in other places. Mortlock's Arete (E4 6a) is also one of the best E4s anywhere and if you get up that you'll almost certainly get up Resurrection!

High Tor as a few people have mentioned is another great option with loads of E3-5s there as well as the super classic Flaky Wall. As Rob said, being sport fit is a huge advantage for a route like Resurrection. It's a long way and you'll be hanging on for a long time so having as much fitness as possible is really helpful.

 Fellover 09:28 Mon
In reply to Darkinbad:

Horses for courses I suppose. It's nice that a classic route has two options to finish, one hard and safe and another easier but bolder, but both at the same grade - gives everyone a fair chance

I've never even heard of the Redhead finish - where does it go?

 Jon Stewart 10:14 Mon
In reply to Fellover:

> I certainly can't reliably onsight 7a on bolts

I can never onsight 7a in the UK, but I did resurrection OK.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I’m never quite sure what “7a UK” means. My experience is that even within the UK that can vary drastically - and if anyone from the Peak is involved in the discussion it skews things massively!

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Cheers (and to Theo) - loads of good info there!

 AJM 10:54 Mon
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I can never onsight 7a in the UK, but I did resurrection OK.

You've got to compare like with like - ideally some sort of 35m+ vert-ish wall climb, not a 15-20m bouldery or power endurance number. There may be some 7as like the former in the UK, but the latter is more common!

In reply to AJM:

Plan Z dos (7a) for example?!

one of my few 7a (“7a”) onsights to date…

 birks3746 11:36 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Some great routes suggested here, plenty going on my hit list!

I always find the sport grade suggestions fascinating. About 5yrs ago I convinced myself to try left wall on the advice that its only 6b+ (which was my o/s level at the time), and got absolutely spanked.... and in the subsequent attempts over the years (had o/s 7a and still was failing). My learning is the sport grades tend to feel applicable if the route is in your style.... (eg anyone want to suggest a sport grade for the Rasp)

Also the pillar at Diabaig should go on your list.... 

 AJM 11:44 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

<Dredges memory banks...>

The wall that breaks left from (or is just left of) the easy corner by where the path comes up, right?

In which case, that sort of thing, probably. I struggle a bit with the idea of people being able to onsight Resurrection but not that, unless this left hand exit really is a lot easier, which Rob seems to suggest it isn't.

In reply to AJM:

Yep that one. 

I’m with you in the view that carrying up several kilos of rack + having to hang around putting bits of it in the rock = a lot harder than a sport climb of nominally a grade or two harder when you’re just clipping bolts

In reply to birks3746:

It’s funny isn’t it? I thought Left Wall was about 6b sport and found it a breeze (but also, I suspect a lot of people read it wrong at the first dogleg and follow the chalk instead of the rock!) You recommend a route at Diabaig, but after the absolute battle I had with the classic HVS there last summer I’d be very nervous of pushing my grade on those slabs! (Though I guess doing it on an overcast day when it’s not blisteringly hot would help)

 Jon Stewart 14:14 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

> You recommend a route at Diabaig

The pillar is a path compared to LW. Horizontal edges up a slab, slightly bold. For me, much easier than a "proper"/cracky HVS.

In reply to birks3746:

> Some great routes suggested here, plenty going on my hit list!

> I always find the sport grade suggestions fascinating. About 5yrs ago I convinced myself to try left wall on the advice that its only 6b+ (which was my o/s level at the time), and got absolutely spanked....

That is because doing Left Wall is miles harder than doing a 6b+ sport route.

 birks3746 15:01 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

I guess this is exactly the challenge of the sports route grade. I got my ass well and truly kicked on LW and my perspective I agree with Robert's comment, whilst I ran up everything on Diabaig. Agree that pillar is easier, was more suggesting it as one to go onto the resurrection list as it kind of fits the bill and is very good.

In reply to Paul Sagar

Maybe 6a+ for left wall if it was on bolts?  

 seankenny 18:51 Mon
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I can never onsight 7a in the UK, but I did resurrection OK.

Whereas I have often onsighted 7a in the U.K. but would struggle with Resurrection. It’s easy to get fit even living in London but getting enough trad mileage in a relatively short space of time is hard. 

In reply to dinodinosaur:

But would probably be 6b+ in Kalymnos or 5+ in France

 Cusco 19:30 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

It was an interesting account of the most well protected, bomber gear climb on Culm. 

Apparently, Sharpnose can feel straightforward to those with sport and wall fitness. Just don't trust the pegs. A great crag, especially on a sunny day as the tide is roaring in and your second is standing on a boulder, looking nervous and starting to whimper. 

For Resurrection, King Holmsey's advice above looks good. 

It's way beyond me. But loads of big, classic  E3/E4 trad leads and don't jump on it too soon if you want to maximise the chances of the O/S?

In reply to Cusco:

I suspect he's lost the true O/S if he's read all the posts in this thread 😁

 Alex@home 19:52 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

> Unfortunately we just booked a week in Leonidio over April

Nothing remotely unfortunate about that! Been there twice and can't wait to go back. Loads of 30+m vert routes in the 6c-7a range. Hot Rock is a must so long as it's cloudy. If it's sunny get round to Olympus for amazing long routes that are all a bit steeper but still manage to have rests on them. A few days there should help your fitness along

In reply to Theo Moore - UKC and UKH:

> The E3s at Chee Tor, as someone mentioned above, would be great training. There's loads of them and they're easily accessible: Absent Friends (E3 5c), Rave On (E3 5c)Less Than Zero (E3 5c)Approaching (E3 5c)Splintered Perspex (E3 6a) (more like E4/5), Of Youth (E3 5c)42nd Street (E3 5c). There's just so many at one crag and they'd probably be graded E3-5 in other places. Mortlock's Arete (E4 6a) is also one of the best E4s anywhere and if you get up that you'll almost certainly get up Resurrection!

Glad you left Queer Street off the E3 list!! Definitely harder than Resurrections

 simon cox 23:07 Mon
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Hi Paul, Resurrection was one of my last reasonable on sights prob ten years ago...  in the past I was a relatively confident climber, so endurance was the key factor for me, so in my prep I trained to do a couple of laps on a fingery 6c+ at the wall, that was enough endurance for me...

I warmed up on Memory Lane, I almost decided against the side runners in Left Wall as I was feeling pretty confident.... though at the top of Resurrection I was grateful of my endurance training...

My top tip is give it a go when you think it is possible rather than wait for uber confidence, also ignore high sport red point grades which you have spent some time on, they mean very little I think in terms of on sighting.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Have a look at my Logbook for last year. I fell off Resurrection back in the day and reckon all the E5s I did last year were easier!

 Darkinbad 10:11 Tue
In reply to Simon King:

OK. First, I'm very jealous. Second, I notice that one of those E5s is Right Wall, so I guess you are of the "Resurrection is harder than Right Wall" persuasion, which is a whole topic in itself.

In reply to simon cox:

> My top tip is give it a go when you think it is possible rather than wait for uber confidence

Excellent point.

In my experience, waiting for uber confidence means you end up waiting forever. The same goes for 'saving things for the onsight' too. There's so many routes I think (looking back on it) I could have done if only I'd have got on them, but didn't due to the fact I was waiting for some sort of unattainable state of brilliance.

Blowing the onsight isn't anywhere near as bad as never giving the onsight ago. 

 Jon Stewart 11:46 Tue
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> In my experience, waiting for uber confidence means you end up waiting forever. The same goes for 'saving things for the onsight' too.

Well said. Even worse is refusing to second routes because you're apparently going to onsight it yourself some day. I reckon in those cases: "either second it now, or I'll strip the route and you'll lead it - which is it to be?".

In reply to Darkinbad

Definitely! Pretty much all my climbing is in the  sustained 5b/5c category with the occasional easy 6a move on good holds.


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