UKC

Hi all.

Easy question. I live 4.6 miles from Burbage Nth; I can drive there in less than 10 minutes. Do you think I can do this currently to take my daily exercise, within the restrictions?

To make it easy to see your opinions,

Like = Yes.

Dislike = No.

Cheers, Simon.

PS: any comments/Replies also gratefully accepted!

In reply to Simon King:

Should you? Perhaps a better question.

In reply to Fruit:

Dunno, kind of difficult for us to say in a poll that he 'should' do something. It's up to him surely.

In reply to Fruit:

Agreed, just wanted to see the numbers... I also wondered if I changed the venue, say to Rivelin (2 miles away) whether the stats would change much...?

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Ok then, in my situation, would you?

In reply to Michael Gordon:

My point really

In reply to Simon King:

This is where a specific distance from home stipulation would have been useful in the English lockdown legislation. 

The vagueness of the rules is crap. I'd happily drive 30 minutes for exercise as that's what I normally consider local.

In reply to Fruit:

Thanks for your contribution...

In reply to Kalna_kaza:

Cheers, interesting.

In reply to Simon King:

I’d say it’s ok but I’m not a legal expert.  However a factor might be, is it necessary to travel further to Burbage, when Rivelin is nearer?

In reply to Simon King:

I would quite happily (and do!) drive 4.6 miles (often less, sometimes more) for a climb. That said, the crags I visit are deserted at the best of times, so I could hardly be accused of honey potting. Whether or not you'll meet an overzealous officer of the law is another question

In reply to afx22:

Thanks. Similarly I suppose I could just stick to Bell Hagg which is 300 yards away! Or to go one further, perhaps I should stick to the wall in my garage!!!

In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Yes, agreed. Apparently there were police in the vacinity of Burbage Nth yesterday...

In reply to Simon King:

You can walk there and back and get a great day’s exercise and a great walk, or you can drive there to indulge in your hobby. The question for grown ups is always not whether you can, but whether you should and also what example you set.

In reply to Simon King:

Hi Simon, I live within a mile of you, in my head, the risk here isn’t so much the distance, but the intended activity danger level. So low bouldering is inherently less risky than old school soloing without mats, ‘cos this is where the NHS will be called on to help when already stretched, if a fall occurs.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Intelligent comment as always! Was just interested considering the recent media etc on the views of climbers. I thought we might be becoming a little less rebellious than we were in previous times? Cheers. 

In reply to Simon King:

Get on your bike, or walk, then you aren't breaking any rules/laws.

In reply to Ade in Sheffield:

Agreed. I certainly wouldn't be pushing the boat out currently. I also wonder whether being older now has an impact on my/our behaviour. If we had Covid in the 80s when I was a dirtbag climber... 

In reply to phizz4:

Now that's an interesting point that I think Paul was also making...does the method of transport make any difference to my original question?

In reply to Simon King:

If you are lucky enough to have Bell Hagg 300 yards away you are one of the most fortunate climbers on UKC during this pandemic.

In reply to Simon King:

As a rebellious youth in the 80s even I would have known that spreading a highly transmissible virus probably wasn't the thing to do.

Not sure what rebellion you're missing out on here. Stick it to the man, then stick it to your gran! Certainly catchy, if you excuse the pun. 😉

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Believe it or not, I'm not a fan!

In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Cheers 😊

In reply to Simon King:

It's definitely got a new wave punk vibe about it! 

Actually gobbing is probably a terrible and effective way to transmit the virus, so maybe I didn't know better after all! 😂

In reply to Simon King:

Is it in line with the restrictions?, No, as it involves leaving your town or village.

Should you? Yes itll be fine and you wont spread the virus but you should be accepting of the unlikely event of being fined.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

I've got the Ruffs as my local. 😂 

So close yet so far! Could there be two more diametrically opposed venues? 

In reply to Simon King:

The question is should you?

I have 3 parks within 5, 10 and 20 mins walk.  Is it reasonable for me to drive further afield, say around 7 miles for exercise such as bouldering at Pex hill, personally I think not.

we have only to listen to and read the recent news to realise things are in a precarious way and the more we can do to help, the better.

Imagine if you need help after a minor accident, such as a sprain/break, thats taking resources from our stretched first responders that could be better deployed elsewhere.  

In reply to Simon King:

It's some years since I've lived in Sheffield (I'm assuming you live in the city) but it's not a bad walk out to Burbage or Rivelin.

The crag might not be a honeypot but there's a high chance the car parks will be...

In reply to Simon King:

Depends where you park. The Derbyshire border is before Burbage Bridge, so you'd be breaking guidelines if you parked there.

You could legally drive to Fox House to park, and climb anywhere in the Burbage Vallety, as you wouldn't be entering Derbyshire.

But to climb anywhere, legally or not, would be socially irresponsible. Make do with a walk and admire the views.

In reply to Fredt:

There is no legal difference between parking in Derbyshire or Yorkshire - just the keenness of the pilice to do something about it

In reply to kipper12:

Or, in another couple of weeks, the resources just may not be there for the person with the broken leg.

Or, if the broken leg needs surgery, the person may be in a high risk covid environment whilst weakened and recovering from surgery.

The rock will still be there in two months.  Quite a few medical professionals may not.

In reply to FamSender:

Good points, cheers.

In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

I can only say I feel your pain!😃

In reply to kipper12:

Sensible points of view. Cheers

In reply to Simon King:

Yes, but only if you go via Starbucks for a peppermint tea and you are wearing Hunter wellies. 

In reply to Simon King:

There’s a fine dividing line between noble rebellion and brattish entitlement😂

I don’t think taking personal responsibility is mutually exclusive to healthy rebellion. It’s just that in this case it’s becoming apparent that it’s a really serious situation that requires responsible restraint. Pragmatism might be one of climbing’s defining features?

In reply to Simon King:

Is it currently against the law for you to go? No.(Nor is it against the law for me to drive 80 miles to climb there).

Is it against the guidance? Yes.

Do you risk getting a fine from the Derbyshire or Yorkshire police who somehow still don't know there regulations? Possibly. They do now have guidance not to fine people who haven't broken the law but they definitely were sending people home and issuing fines a couple of days ago.

Should you go given the current situation with an NHS threatening to be overwhelmed, prevalence being very high and a significantly more transmissible strain that renders our previous covid measures insufficient? It's a grey area. The transmission risk is not zero even outdoors. But the risk there should be lower than someone going for a walk/run in Sheffield.

For me, the transmission risk is no longer justifiable, I'm training on my board instead of heading out; the rocks will still be there in a few weeks, many people won't. But I'm also not going to criticise someone who does go out, as long as they take all of the precautions necessary to minimise transmission.

I'll save that criticism for the far higher risk activities such as:

- unnecessary shopping trips

- failing to distance at the shops

- failing to wear masks correctly

- employers forcing workers in who could WFH

- employers failing to implement effective covid measures but still expecting workers in

- abuse of key worker definitions to keep far too many children in school

- social gatherings in homes

- unnecessary public transport journeys

- communal worship

If you do go, please take all of the sensible precautions to minimise spread (keeping a large distance from everyone, go alone/with your household/bubble, not sharing problems/areas with others, washing hands etc).

Although very open, Burbage is also very busy, particularly around the car park and it is very visible. If I was going to head out (I'm not), I would be going somewhere much quieter, I would be going to a crag where I wouldn't expect to see a person all day.

In reply to Simon King:

Yesterday afternoon you would have found parking rather difficult.

In reply to Simon King:

I’n not from the UK nor have strict restrictions currently. But If the local requirement is local excercise allowed recriation not. Then imho driving is a no-go. Local equals walking or biking distance. 

In reply to Albert Tatlock:

Sorry but peppermint tea is an oxymoron! It's peppermint infusion...😃

In reply to Simon King:

I don't think that's really the point. Being picky about the precise place you take your precise form of  exercise is a bit of a slap in the face to those people who live 100 miles from any type of crag and who would give a kidney to have Bell Hagg within a mile of their house.

In reply to SDM:

Cheers for that. Interestingly I'm currently rewriting my training schedule to include daily garage sessions in the hope of being a beast once we're allowed out (current plan is based on May?). Good luck!

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

How I wish I could mash the like button multiple times. Sums it up in a few lines.

In reply to TobyA:

Blimey, that looks just like a normal weekend...no lockdown then!

In reply to HeMa:

I must admit that seems a very simple rule which I tend to agree with (though obvs, some people can walk/cycle further than others!).

In reply to Tom Valentine:

That's also a really good point (he said, looking at Rivelin out of the window in the distance)...😃

In reply to peppermill:

Agreed. It's the best thing about discussions like these!

In reply to wintertree:

Agreed. I can't think of a bigger act of disrespect to the NHS than turning up at A and E with a climbing related injury at the moment.

Maybe OK if you've been clapping though. 

In reply to Simon King:

I wasn't directing that at you personally, I meant it summed up the whole situation!

In reply to Simon King: Walk straight from your front door and you’ll have no problems.

Edit: forgot to add to Rivelin

In reply to afx22:

I'd suppose you'd have to hope that the judge is a climbing judge who'd realise that Rivelin is possibly not a great place to attempt to climb in the damp of winter...

In reply to Simon King:

It was a lovely afternoon - I had cycled from home, Dronfield way - Totley Moor had other cyclists and people out walking but wasn't super busy, it was also the best riding conditions up there I've ever seen with hard packed but not icey snow on the trails and almost no liquid water or mud anywhere. Going over the Houndkirk Road it got busier and busier. The SYP offroad team were waiting behind a corner on Houndkirk ready to ambush anyone illegally riding or driving the road I guess, but the only motorbikes I saw all day were theirs! One of them did come up behind me above Lady Canning so maybe was going to try and sort out the parking mayhem on the road. There were a couple of teams climbing and bouldering at Burbage, then I saw more people walking with bouldering mats above Froggatt, Baslow and coming back from Birchen - as I cycled home. The boulderers I saw weren't social distancing when spotting but  maybe were housemates.

In reply to nikoid:

If there’s now one around a few laps on TR solo are about as safe as climbing can be. So purely in the domain of excersice rather than leasure.

add in the walking/biking and a good cross training excersice. Plus tr soloing doesn’t require much gear. A few slings, lockers a few nut/cams and 20m rope plus chalk, harness, shoes and selected tr solo-rig. Everything and them some fits in a 20 to 30l rucksack.  

In reply to tehmarks:

A climbing judge would know that Rivlin is the most reliable winter grit.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

A kidney for Bell Hagg?! Only if I had the sort of extra organs boasted by Dr. Who. I might consider it for The Roaches though.

In reply to GrahamD:

Perfect, win. I must have been unlucky in my trips there to find it miserable and damp.

In fairness, I haven't been to Rivelin in years, so I should avoid commenting.

In reply to wintertree:

As my sister points out, more medical professionals have died from covid than troops killed in Afghanistan. No flag-draped processions through the streets for these people killed on the 'front line', though.

In reply to TobyA:

I wondered if it might have been like that in the sunshine yesterday, ta for the pics. 

I've been staying in S Yorks lately, but crossed the border into (sssh..  say it softly..) Derbyshire yesterday for a walk/run in relative solitude away from all the obvious honeypots, and felt very privileged to have access to such lovely places.

In reply to Simon King:

I think the issue over driving is that  the more people drive the more road accidents there will be (certainly so judging by the speed merchants driving round the normaly quiet roads in my neck of the woods) which in turn increases pressure on an NHS that is already seriously struggling.

In reply to Simon King:

If he's  a socialist he may have a problem with any varieties of Camellia Sinensis as all  proper tea is theft!

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Is climbing 'exercise', or is it a 'hobby'?  You can argue a case either way, but it's a bit weird to change your mind completely based on how someone goes about approaching the approach.

If driving there to climb is merely to "indulge your hobby" then so is walking or cycling there.  Just with added exercise before and after the 'hobby' part.

In reply to deepsoup:

Excersice is when you do it to stay fit and not necessary enjoy it. 
 

hobby is when you do enjoy it and log in the log book. 
 

for the record, also excersices might be logged.... in a training log. 

In reply to Hat Dude:

Very good!

In reply to Simon King:

As a local you probably have a good feel for what the masses will do, which gives a great chance to avoid these things and do something else!   Based on avoiding contact with other people being the actual thing we're trying to prevent, rather than following arbitrary restrictions on being outdoors. Burbage at the weekend in decent conditions would be a no for me for climbing just now (I live in walkley). Midweek, early,  with weather that was less than perfect, maybe via bike, why not? 

Getting alarmed that I'll find the hagg packed out at this rate next time I go! It gets mentioned in these Sheffield lockdown threads, but I've not seen a soul there in ages, there are only two other people, I recall seeing there within the last ten years to be honest, but I'm not a regular. Think peoples psyche for esoteric climbing even in a crisis, is maybe not quite as high as it appears on these threads thankfully.  Maybe the fly tipping in the woods and highlights like BBQers  pissing off the top of burglars buttress puts people off...

In reply to Sankey:

I wondered what that was...I thought it was raining...😃

In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

I just walked the Dog up to Froggatt Edge, came down the gap and found 6 young rock jocks standing in a huddle on mats desperately trying to chalk dry the holds on Joe’s Slab. No masks, and had driven out in two cars apparently. No comment.

In reply to Simon King:

4.6 miles is roughly a 20 - 30 minute cycle ride (going up hill from Sheff might make it long though) and less attention grabbing for eager police.

The only tricky bits are a) do you want to take a bouldering mat and b) the prospect of injury give hospitals have very little capacity (I know injury isn't necessaryily likely but it is a factor)

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Friend of mine went running yesterday. Drove from SE Sheffield to north of Bacup (three hour round trip). Don't know what to think really... 

In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Yeah you do, it's just hard to acknowledge when it's someone you're fond of.  I had a similar feeling looking a pal's facebook photos of his climbing & bouldering exploits during the last lockdown.

In reply to deepsoup:

I thought that now it's in the Olympics it must be a "sport".

In reply to deepsoup:

Yeah, you're right. FFS. 

In reply to Simon King:

Depends on the weather and how much I wanted to go climbing.

In reply to Ade in Sheffield:

Seems like I'm in this gang too. 

In reply to Simon King:

I gave you a like Simon. If it wasn't for the cold weather I'd be out there too. Come April when it's warmer I'll be faced with the same dilemma.

Between now and then will read The Great Seacliffs of Scotland. Not that I am good enough for any of them but interesting all the same : ) 

In reply to TobyA:

I did a big loop from home to Curbar gap to Burbage Bridge and home late yesterday. Had it all to myself,. Absolutely mint trails to ride on.

Passed some lamping boulderers at Burbage. Seemed fair play. If from SW Sheffield as long they were being careful what they were doing seems legit to me. Endcliffe Park and the big roundabout on Eccy Rd yesterday on the other hand was rammed. very little social distancing happening.

A bit of balance is needed from the police with regard to clamping down in the city vs people doing out the Peak. I get that the Peak honeypots can and do get even busier than Endcliffe Park on a nice day if people are not sensible.

In reply to Sankey:

We are the masses.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

I wonder what constitutes "desperate chalking"? I thought we were rather calm about it. Flattered you thought my housemates and I were young though.

In reply to Removed UserRockJock101:

Applying chalk to the rock rather than to one's hands perhaps? 
That's a bit of a dick move covid or no covid.

In reply to deepsoup:

The latest report from virologist Dr Maitreyi Shivkumar at Leicester University, interestingly concludes that “our study suggests that chalk powder inactivates the infectivity of the virus and is therefore unlikely to harbour coronaviruses like SARS-CoV-2.” 

Furthermore, "The results showed that within just one minute of the virus coming into contact with the chalk, the number of infectious particles in all of the samples was reduced by more than 99%."

In light of this, "desperate chalking" should be actively encouraged by the BMC as a matter of public safety. 

In reply to Removed UserRockJock101:

You're obviously feeling guilty enough between you and D*******i & R****p to turn your logbooks from public to private though. Hope your location isn't actually London as that is taking the piss for distance travelled

In reply to bonebag:

Just finished the same book... Pabbay is my only tick so far so really looking forward to June (fingers crossed!). Cheers

In reply to thepodge:

We should meet up...oh bugger... lockdown...

In reply to fred99:

Come in guys... it's obviously a addiction!

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

Saw Steve Mc on his bike a while back on Ringinlow Rd with a bouldering mat... Bloody good effort!

In reply to Simon King:

Someone up at Bell Hagg needs to ease off on the chalk, went up for a walk today and it's white enough to be Santa's grotto. 

In reply to Simon King:

Good effort Simon on Pabbay. My only realistic chance would be on Fifteen Fathoms of Fear (S), photo p157.

The book was a Christmas present to mum and dad from our 25 year old youngest son who is a much better climber than we are. One day he will inherit the book back from us. I'm sure he might borrow it between now and then too.

Surely by June we will be well on the way back to normality again but nothing is a given in life is it.

Good luck with your climbing and get out when/if you can.

In reply to Simon King:

People are getting spot fines in the Churnet on number plate recognition and returned to find they have a £60 fine and this has also happened in other climbing hot spots, so I would be very cautious 

In reply to Simon King:

Not the smartest post that Si...

In reply to Gary Gibson:

All well and good, but what about those who aren't currently living at the address where their car is registered to? 

In reply to Gary Gibson:

Do you know what they're actually being fined for? - as in what have they contravened.

If they're using the number plate to get registered keeper's address and then spot fining based on distance then I wonder how well that would stand up in court.

Also, £60 is a strange amount, Coronavirus fines start at £200 (or £100 if you pay within 14 days).

P.S. hope your recovery has progressed well - have you got to 5,000 yet?

In reply to Gary Gibson:

Also, they could have, for example, just done a day's work, or exercised caring responsibilities, and decided to stop off for a walk on the way home. I can't see how there would be any justification for a fine in that case.

In reply to Michael Hood:

Surely it must mean they're being fined for something non-covid?

There's something missing, that's for sure.

Issuing a FPN for the wrong amount for something that isn't a legal offence is just a slam dunk if challenged...

In reply to Michael Hood: not observing The lockdown and driving outside of the postcode area where they lived to go for a walk and bouldering etc. I just wanted to post exactly what is happening where I live..the Churnet and it’s heppened in parts of Derbyshire and the police were in evidence in Ilan the other day and I am lead to believe in other beauty spots. I won’t post what I personally know is happening if it irks you but I thought it might help the poster make  decision?

In reply to Gary Gibson:

Doesn't irk me since it doesn't affect me, I was just wondering how they could apply a Covid fixed penalty notice (which is what these appear to be from what you're saying) to a vehicle - the vehicle hasn't committed an offence (assuming it's legally parked) - I presume people found tickets on their cars when they returned rather than the police hanging about until they returned - in which case the FPNs would be given out to the people.

For Road Traffic Offence fixed penalty notices, the registered keeper either has to say who was driving at the time, or take/contest the fine/points themselves. I'm not sure that obligation exists for non-traffic offences but it seems decidedly dodgy to me. Surely the Police would have to show that the person has committed a Covid offence, the car being more than a certain distance from its registered address is circumstantial evidence at best.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Gosh, I was only pointing out what was happening in the Churnet and other areas for the poster to make an informed decision

In reply to Gary Gibson:

So you have no opinion on the matter?

In reply to Gary Gibson:

I guess people are wondering if these reports are correct, given the non-standard FPN value, and the entirely questionable legal basis (considering the Derbyshire police backtracking on the reservoir incident).

What's the source of these reports?

In reply to Gary Gibson:

In my local area number plate recognition is getting used to identify people to further question. Don't believe it's been used give FPNs.

Went a very long run Sunday and its obvious that the guidance that allows people to meet 1 other person is probably the biggest issue, people travelling to meet friends for walks.

Would have thought if they travel 5 or 10miles is second order, people staying away from each other is the fundamental objective. So could see the meet one person guidance changing.

They haven't closed the popular car parks in the local area around me. They did in the last lockdown...

In reply to LJH:

...to law? Makes sense.

I can't see meeting one other person being advised against, let alone outlawed completely. Many live alone and meeting another person outdoors is their only way of staying sane. Much better than meeting in the shops etc.