/ Collapsing routes

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James B 14 Jun 2019

How many of the climbs that you’ve done have since fallen down or have been substantially changed by rockfall?

I’m interested in whether my experience is representative. 

In my 18 years of climbing, 3 climbs have gone or changed completely:

Shadrach (VS 4c), Tremadog

Tatra (pre 2014 rockfall) (VS 5a), Boulder Ruckle

Formula One (HVS 5a) Lundy

Pedro50 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Yankee Doodle, Conscientious Objector, Fandango, Wicked Gravity . Probably others too. 

Dave Cundy 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Two of the lads in my club did Controlled Burning (E4 5c) on Lundy.  Sadly no more.  I still remember Martin asking everyone in the Barn for all their medium/large friends. No refusals were accepted .

Dave Cundy 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

And i remember backing off the The Perfumed Garden (E1 5b), shortly before it collapsed.  Well pleased with that judgement!

Graeme Hammond 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Good article on this here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/destinations/lost_rock-11025 which is already out of date with the demise of parts of  Castle Rock of Triermain

Plenty of threads about this if you search too, but no harm repeating.

Christheclimber 14 Jun 2019
Tom V 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

The Butcher, Dovestones Main

And I think Rachel has disappeared from Lundy, near to Pelmets of Delerium.

Formula One also.

James B 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

So far, that’s 

Dolerite 2

Granite 4

Rhyolite 2 

Limestone 3 

Sandstone 1

I was a bit surprised about the granite number but I suppose it’s less about softness of the rock, and more about things like rock breaks and how extreme the local environment is e.g tidal sea cliffs. 

craig h 14 Jun 2019
In reply to Tom V:

I have a feeling The Butcher survived the chop.

Titans Groove and a few routes around that went in the last big rockfall, the one before took out a lot of Mikes Meander and surrounding routes.

Red Rover 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Dovestone Main (in Chew) is grit

pasbury 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

I'm very smug to have done Deer Bield before it fell down but my absolute favourite ex route is the Illinois Enema Bandit. There's no bit of scrappy crag where the route used to be just air. Perfectly gone. Bloody great route it was too.

Post edited at 20:19
Tom V 14 Jun 2019
In reply to craig h:

Sorry I meant Titans, which might have had more than one collapse, I suspect.

Alkis 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Christ at Hangingstone. It was ridiculously loose when I did it and did not last long after. Interestingly, people still seem to be climbing what is left of it.

Gustavo 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Rimmon  route on the troll wall... collapsed spectacularly in 1998.

tjekel 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Well the Cengalo is granite as well, as are the Drus... Don-t think ther is an easy rule regarding geology. 

Trangia 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Hounds Head Buttress, Tremadog

MG 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

In the alps, significant bits of La Grivola, Herbetet ,Ciarforon (ice, here).  Also a small bit of Monte Dizgrazia, however, since I was holding it at the time, this is the most important for me!

bpmclimb 14 Jun 2019
Wiley Coyote2 14 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

All of Parrock Quarry. TBH it's not much of a loss

smithg 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Everything on the Culm Coast, everytime anyone climbs on it.

Deadeye 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Big chunks of Fairy Cave Quarry always seem to be arriving on the floor.

Also Earth Rim Roamer 1

alan moore 15 Jun 2019
In reply to smithg:

I was going to say, shale would top the list. Hundreds of seaward facing fins: every cracklines eventually becomes an arete, then disappears altogether!

Everyone one in a while, a whole sheaf gets undermines and the crag loses its top layer as in the case of Mainsail.

True North on the Lizard was a great route as well. You'd never have guessed that it was soon to be no more.

Tom V 15 Jun 2019
In reply to alan moore:

Great pity to hear about Mainsail. Probably as well I wasn't my current weight when I did it.

John2 15 Jun 2019
In reply to bpmclimb:

Terrier's Tooth used to be given HVD. Has anyone mentioned Bishop's Rib on the same crag?

James Oswald 15 Jun 2019

Solaris (Lundy)

fred99 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Did "Mourning Glory - VS" in October 2003 using the 1992 guide.

Then out came the 2004 guide which said it was "dismantled in the late 90's".

Exciting route I found - interesting choice Vince !!

Robert Durran 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

The Giant (Summer) (E3 6a) andCougar (E3 5c) along with a lot of those already mentioned.

Michael Gordon 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

just Overhanging Bastion I think

jcw 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Add Carpet Slab, Cloggy

Calvi 15 Jun 2019
In reply to Red Rover:

> Dovestone Main (in Chew) is grit


Grit is a coarse-grained sandstone.

3
Eric9Points 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Cougar and Parallel B.

Both granite, but granite that wasn't held together by very much at all.

I'm slightly surprised that nothing much has collapsed at Ratho. I've always had the impression that Sedge Warbler and Shear Fear were never very firmly attached to the rest of the world.

Red Rover 15 Jun 2019
In reply to Calvi:

Of course but in a climbing context they're usually treated separatly.

Robert Durran 15 Jun 2019
In reply to Eric9Points:

> I'm slightly surprised that nothing much has collapsed at Ratho. 

A few routes on the right side collapsed s few weeks ago!

Richard J 15 Jun 2019
In reply to alan moore:

> Everyone one in a while, a whole sheaf gets undermines and the crag loses its top layer as in the case of Mainsail.

I thought the loss of Mainsail seemed somehow unfair, as of all the routes on Culm it seemed one of the most normal - pretty solid, nice slab climbing.  Its similarly lost neighbour, Berlin, though - that was a different matter, with its weirdly apt guidebook description as "exhilaratingly loose".

Eric9Points 15 Jun 2019
In reply to Robert Durran:

> A few routes on the right side collapsed s few weeks ago!


Funny that. It always seemed the more solid side to me.

johncook 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

A few years ago, whilst walking out from another failed attempt (my 5th for various reasons) on one of the absolute alpine classics, I remarked casually to my partner, 'Never mind it will still be there next year!' A couple of years later it, the Bonnatti Pillar, was gone completely. I have several routes which I would like to finish, in the alps. I suggest if you have a list of classic alpine routes get out and do them before I make any more destructive statements!

Rob Parsons 15 Jun 2019
In reply to johncook:

The Drus are one big collapsing route.

petegunn 15 Jun 2019
Gerry 15 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Berlin at Brownspear Point was a great adrenaline trip at an amenable technical grade.

Baron Weasel 15 Jun 2019
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> just Overhanging Bastion I think

I heard it's still there?

Tom V 15 Jun 2019
In reply to petegunn:

Caravanserai as well?  I remember bringing my second up by bracing myself in a sort of ditch I found a few yards back from the top .

Michael Gordon 15 Jun 2019
In reply to Baron Weasel:

It has been reclimbed but is definitely 'substantially changed'.

Rob Parsons 15 Jun 2019
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Yes - there's a relevant recent thread here: a search'll find it.

harold walmsley 16 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

I have done 20 routes that I think are mostly gone:

SW: Yankee Doodle, Buffalo Gorge, Caravanserai 

Pembroke: Return of the Natives, Idle Threats, Conscientious Objector, Lookout Arete, Lost Leaders, Face Value, Nimrod 

Snowdonia: Fandango, Shadrach, The Brothers, Alice Springs  

Peak: Sickle Buttress Arete 

Malham: Cube Route 

Lakes: Deer Bield Buttress, Stiff Little Fingers, Sideshow, North Crag Eliminate 

now probably plus some more in Vivien Quarry. There are 4 that still exist but substantially changed:

Zodiac, Haemogoblin, One Step in the Clouds, Overhanging Bastion.

Most regular SW sea cliff climbers will have more (e.g. Ian Peters easily beat my total on a previous occasion when this was raised)

Planeandsimple 16 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Funky Gibbon (HS 4c)

Or at least it will be when the block falls down... It's currently out of bounds as the block which may support the overhang above is migrating away from the cliff. 

Stig 16 Jun 2019
In reply to harold walmsley:

Cornflake at Tintwistle Knarr. Surprised no-one’s mentioned that. Classic!

DerwentDiluted 16 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Dang,  this thread makes me realise that I'm old enough that my lifetime encompasses geological events, Shadrach springs to mind as a route that has tumbled to the crag floor. However my couple of ticks at Lamb quarry suffered the unusual fate of the crag floor tumbling up to the tops of the routes. Do they count?

Christheclimber 16 Jun 2019
Trangia 16 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Interesting thread on this subject from 10 years ago. Al Evans makes an interesting contribution.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/classic_routes_that_no_longer_exist-358688

Christheclimber 16 Jun 2019
harold walmsley 16 Jun 2019
In reply to Stig:

Ooh , I forgot about that. One more on the list!

In reply to Trangia:

Amazing picture of the Raven Crag Walthwaite rockfall by Rog Wilko linked to in that thread - looks like the boulder that fell jumped over a wall.

jcm

Baron Weasel 16 Jun 2019
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> It has been reclimbed but is definitely 'substantially changed'.

Google found this update: https://www.frcc.co.uk/routes/overhanging-bastion-revised/

James B 16 Jun 2019
In reply to Trangia:

> Interesting thread on this subject from 10 years ago. Al Evans makes an interesting contribution

Thanks for that.

I like Al’s straightforwardness in observing that if JJ fell down it should make for some good new routes!

JimR 16 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Done quite a few of those mentioned does fools paradise on Gowder count?

Eugetj 17 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Oxwich on gower which had about 40 routes (inc. a number of top quality starred classics on it) completely feel down to evolve into a really good beachside bouldering area

gooberman-hill 17 Jun 2019
In reply to alan moore:

Ooh - Mainsail and Berlin. Did them both. Took me 3 attempts to do Berlin on account of the weather. I think the second attempt on it I got lifted off the crux by the wind and placed back down (in the same place!)

Steve

AlanLittle 17 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Various things on the Brothers wall at Tremadog, apparently. Plus the original first pitch of Merlin.

Some sport routes in Parrock Quarry. 

Is Wendy Doll (E2 5b) in Vivian still in existence?

Then there was my FA on the lower tier at Markfield that fell into the water before I even got round to writing it up anywhere.

Simon Caldwell 17 Jun 2019
Trangia 17 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Of course there are the Sandstone Cliffs at Hastings. They look magnificent, but they are the closest thing to suicide you can climb on. No ascent is ever the same as bits break off all the time ranging from hand/footholds to hundreds of tonnes of face. 

Such a pity, because if the rock was stable they would easily be the best cliffs in the SE.

Trangia 17 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Footage of a large collapse in 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJVW1oXZz2w

muppetfilter 17 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

A fair bit of park nab fell over a few years ago

Bulls Crack 17 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

The late, great, Marsden Pinnacle

bpmclimb 17 Jun 2019
In reply to James B:

Crack In The Sky (E1 5b)

This one fell down, or changed substantially, at least, which was disappointing as I once backed off it and wanted to return.

In reply to James B:

T.Rex (E3 5c)

Tick's Groove (E6 6b)

The Coolidge Effect (E4)

Two of which I was on the FA of! One feel down about two months after we climbed it! The other took a few years.

Offwidth 18 Jun 2019
In reply to John2:

Terrier's Tooth was a dangerous sandbag at HVD but a great route. What's left is now a very dangerous and shitty sandbag at HS.

1
Offwidth 18 Jun 2019
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Foggy Dew fell down, I thought the 'New' is the existing line.

Simon Caldwell 18 Jun 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

New Foggy Dew also fell down, the current line is Brand New Foggy Dew!

This is probably the last ascent of the old version.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=179422

Offwidth 18 Jun 2019
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Cheers ... another update to my scripts needed.


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