UKC

Eric's Cafe

New Topic
Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
 LouN 30 Mar 2022

Just seen on Facebook Eric's Cafe now known as Hadfer is reopening on Friday. No Cafe, but open for coffee and cake 2.00 - 6.00.  

Long stay car park open 10.00 - 6.00, not sure of costs 

2
 jezb1 30 Mar 2022
In reply to LouN:

£3.50 per day, via Just Park app. Shame it's 1000, too late for a lot of the days I'd use it.

Also, I just read on their page, the cafe is "adults only". They really are doing their best to alienate people user group buy user group.

Post edited at 21:33
1
In reply to jezb1:

> Also, I just read on their page, the cafe is "adults only". 

Sounds perfect to me.

32
 jezb1 30 Mar 2022
In reply to tehmarks:

I haven’t got kids, so it makes no difference to me, just strikes me as a bit unwelcoming.

1
In reply to jezb1:

Yeah it's a real shame. Last time I was there and it was open me and my partner stopped to buy a cup of tea and got a rant about how climbers don't spend any money while we were standing there wearing harnesses and buying something from them.

2
 David Bowler 30 Mar 2022
In reply to LouN:

A better cafe, open earlier, no bullshit. https://www.breaktimes.co.uk/

Eat there then park on the roadside.

1
 65 30 Mar 2022
In reply to tehmarks:

> Sounds perfect to me.

And to me. But more to the point, are dogs welcome?

11
In reply to LouN:

Coffee and cake between 2am and 6am!?!

Madness. Good luck with that business plan.

 Sir Chasm 30 Mar 2022
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Tough approach to the counter?

 Wainers44 30 Mar 2022
In reply to jezb1:

> £3.50 per day, via Just Park app. Shame it's 1000, too late for a lot of the days I'd use it.

> Also, I just read on their page, the cafe is "adults only". They really are doing their best to alienate people user group buy user group.

Strange isn't it. I have older kids so makes no difference to me either.  Wouldn't go there now though just in case I was someone who wasn't welcome without me realising it. Bit soft like that.

Funny also that practically every other group in society has their right to equality of access to stuff enshrined in law, except kids it seems. Lucky that we don't need them to grow up assuming equality in everything for all and sh*t and stuff.

9
In reply to 65:

> And to me. But more to the point, are dogs welcome?

Adult dogs are fine. 

In reply to LouN:

Y garreg cafe in llanfrothen 5 mins down the road does great food and the owners all climb. The do a great post climb pizza on a Friday and Saturday too.

 Offwidth 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

Is that the place next to the garden centre on the A road north.?

In reply to Offwidth:

It's on the road between penrhyndeudraeth and hylldrem.

 Offwidth 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

The one I was thinking of was at the Bryncir Garden Centre on the A487. Very friendly and very good food, including vegan and vegetarian options.

https://m.facebook.com/BryncireGardenCentreAndCafe/

Post edited at 11:16
1
 olddirtydoggy 31 Mar 2022
In reply to LouN:

Is there a dress code?

 Iamgregp 31 Mar 2022
In reply to LouN:

I've never in my life heard of an "Adults Only" Cafe...  What a strange proposition. 

2
 Darkinbad 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Iamgregp:

> ... a strange proposition. 

You should be so lucky.

 Le Sapeur 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Iamgregp:

> I've never in my life heard of an "Adults Only" Cafe...  What a strange proposition. 

There are lots around. The one below is excellent.

https://www.brixhamsteampacket.co.uk/brixham-coffee-lounge/

1

In reply to beardy mike:

We all wish that some things would just stay the same, however, the people who have bought this business (and remember how difficult this has been particularly in Wales) have come to the conclusion that we (as in climbers) just don't bring in enough money. This conclusion might make us sad for a rose tinted spectacled past but I'm surprised that we have been so lucky for so long.

They have clearly headed for a higher yielding camping operation (with doubtless a significant investment). This is their right, no-one else here on this site wanted to invest their hard earned cash and take that risk, I definitely wouldn't have done so.

The greater risk is that they take the view in the future that parking at £3.50 is not working either and the recommendation that 'just park on the road' is as great a hostage to fortune as I can imagine. Highways and the local authority will soon bring that to an end. We'll end up with another 'Pass and Ogwen' problem.

I would say that we should all wish them well and with the BMC to work through a long term solution based on mutual interest even if you don't want coffee and cake (and that includes me).

3
 gethin_allen 31 Mar 2022
In reply to aostaman:

> They have clearly headed for a higher yielding camping operation (with doubtless a significant investment). This is their right, no-one else here on this site wanted to invest their hard earned cash and take that risk, I definitely wouldn't have done so.

I'm waiting for everyone to realise that "the weather is always good at Tremadog" is a great big lie and then start heading back to Malaga etc. for the "guaranteed sun". Not that this is really true either as apparently the weather in Spain has been terrible for the last month.

I had a look at the price of staying in their "horse box" for a weekend mid April. They want £145 a night with minimum 2 night stay. I think that excludes me from their market.

 Fat Bumbly2 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Wainers44: Not just kids, but families can do one too.

Big red flag for me.

 Fat Bumbly2 31 Mar 2022
In reply to gethin_allen:

“Glamping” is a horror isn’t it.  Remember when you could stay in old vehicles and caravans for a quid at Nancy Smith’s place.

2
In reply to the whingers:

The sense of entitlement on this thread is staggering. These people are trying to run a business and just because they haven’t built their business model around providing free parking and cheap food for your infrequent visits to Tremadoc does not make them miserable it just means times have moved on. Be real, how many on this thread go to Tremadoc more than twice a year? From what I can see regulars have been using other cafes anyway so why not leave these people be to try and make the best of it rather than piling on because you have sepia tinted mémoires of once spending 20p there and Eric giving you a cheery wave and a smile (I bet he was sick of climbers by the end as well!)

Post edited at 13:55
50
 Rick Graham 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Tyler:

They bought the property and business with over forty years of trading accounts from Eric. The business model hardly changed in that time apart from stopping petrol sales c.1982. Eric told me his turnover reduced by £125k but profit was unchanged.

As you say it was the new owners choice to change the business model.

 Andy Hardy 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Tyler:

The new owners solicited and got support from the climbing community when they were trying to get their permissions / licences for camping. I for one supported the application by writing to the council with details of some of my previous stays there.

In return they have effectively closed the parking and made the camping expensive. 

1
 gethin_allen 31 Mar 2022

You could call it a sense of entitlement if you like but then isn't everyone entitled to enjoy the the outdoors?

I think it's only fair that people will feel sad to see something that they have previously enjoyed changing to such a degree that they can no longer afford it. And maybe their maths does make sense and they can balance their books by having a few couples staying for £145/room/night rather than a field full of people staying for £10 /head/night, but then that's a whole load fewer people enjoying the place.

And it's perfectly fine to question peoples business models. I don't even have kids but a lot of my friends do, so even if I was inclined to stay there this would get in the way, and I don't think I'm alone.

And what's wrong with kids on what's essentially a fancy campsite with the tents/vans further apart? it just makes me think of the 1980s when as a kid my dad would have to go into pubs/restaurants before the family to see if they would let us in.

1
In reply to Rick Graham:

> They bought the property and business with over forty years of trading accounts from Eric. The business model hardly changed in that time apart from stopping petrol sales c.1982. Eric told me his turnover reduced by £125k but profit was unchanged.

> As you say it was the new owners choice to change the business model.

I’m not sure what the relevance of this is?

27
In reply to LouN:

Personally my problem with exclusive glamping sites is not that it shouldn't be allowed or such nonsense (way to go putting words in my mouth) but that there are ALOT of posh glamping sites and that their numbers are ever increasing. These sites are focused (as a business should be) around making money and they do this in anyway they can. The number of older more traditional campsites is reducing as people try to jump on this wave and as a result, affordable trips are becoming less doable. With Covid, this was exacerbated - last year I was shocked at the prices of camping as they had shot up - in my view that is a rather cynical thing to do. I own a business providing mid cost accommodation and my prices have remained unchanged as I plainly think it's wrong to profit like that, despite the fact that the business has had a rough couple of years. People need to get away for their mental health and their general wellbeing, and the reduction in affordable accommodation is reducing the accessibility of the hills to people less fortunate than us. There is a place for glamping, it's just a shame that a fantastic piece of climbing culture has disappeared. Erics was a fixture, and there are fewer and fewer places like this - that's not rose tinted spectacles, its the slow and inevitable commercialisation  of our sport/activity (of which I am one admittedly). That said, whenever I have climbers come to stay, they are friendly, helpful, interested and interesting people. I frequently run them a discount, not because I have to but because I want to support the lifestyle we pursue. Of course that doesn't mean that others should do the same, but I can pretty much guarantee that if as a business owner you show willingness and kindness to your guests, they repay you by way of word of mouth and your reputation spreads - in the long run you get more business and it pays back. The new owners are permitted to run their business as they see fit, it's up to them, but alienating people by giving off unfriendly vibes will do them no favours... having a big sign saying "no kids" is certainly that...

In reply to Andy Hardy:

> The new owners solicited and got support from the climbing community when they were trying to get their permissions / licences for camping. I for one supported the application by writing to the council with details of some of my previous stays there.

> In return they have effectively closed the parking and made the camping expensive. 

What were they supposed to give you in return? Did you support it because it was the right thing to do only do it because there was something in it for you? There is still parking, you last went to Tremadog 7 years ago so I think it’s a bit much to expect businesses to keep things as they were just in case you decide to visit again.

48
In reply to Tyler:

Just so it's clear to everyone, there no longer is any tent camping at the site other than in various existing glamping/camping pods.

They also basically haven't been open most of the time they have owned the site and whilst initially were friendly (I'd pop in for an ice cream and drink every time they are we're open), however all my encounters with them the last few years have been unpleasant.

I work at tremadog 30+ days a year and more for my climbing in my own time. I agree that times move on and the renovations and changes to the cafe have been good, however biting the hand that feeds you is a bad idea... The two big sets of clients at Eric's were climbers and bikers and I haven't seen any bikers there in a long time...

 gethin_allen 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Tyler:

> What were they supposed to give you in return?

Well if the council wanted proof that their service "X" was a valuable asset to the area and Andy gave the council evidence to support this. but then "X" turned into "Y", then Andy's supporting statements are no longer valid.

Who knows how much weight his support added to the case for permission to be granted, but if his support and maybe many others was critical to the development of the site then there's the issue.

In reply to Alex Riley:

> Just so it's clear to everyone, there no longer is any tent camping at the site other than in various existing glamping/camping pods.

So what? There are other campsites. From what I can tell the number of people tent camping has reduced as people move to AirBNB or vans. It's like complaining that there aren't internet cafes around.

> They also basically haven't been open most of the time they have owned the site and whilst initially were friendly (I'd pop in for an ice cream and drink every time they are we're open), however all my encounters with them the last few years have been unpleasant.

> I work at tremadog 30+ days a year and more for my climbing in my own time. I agree that times move on and the renovations and changes to the cafe have been good, however biting the hand that feeds you is a bad idea... The two big sets of clients at Eric's were climbers and bikers and I haven't seen any bikers there in a long time...

"So you work providing a service in Snowdonia, how much do you charge? That much?! So and so used to do it for half that? What do you mean you are qualified and offer better level of instruction, I don't want instruction I just want someone to hold my ropes! What do you mean that's not the service you offer, why are you not providing a cheaper service for us real climbers? What other customers? You're biting the hand that feeds you there mate! Well yeah, technically I never use your services but I was definitely going to...."

67
In reply to gethin_allen:

> Well if the council wanted proof that their service "X" was a valuable asset to the area and Andy gave the council evidence to support this. but then "X" turned into "Y", then Andy's supporting statements are no longer valid.

> Who knows how much weight his support added to the case for permission to be granted, but if his support and maybe many others was critical to the development of the site then there's the issue.

You are right, no one knows but they won't attach as much weight to Andy's letter from 5 years ago than they do to all their other interactions in the intervening years, or their own policy guidance etc etc. I imagine the council will know what they consider a valuable asset to the area without reference to Andy's letter.

25
 Andy Hardy 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Tyler:

In the meantime I tried to organise a club meet there which they were not interested in (insisting on providing breakfast!), dear, inflexible.

I have been put off going to tremadog since then.

And in return for my letter, well I did hope that parking would remain available

Post edited at 15:36
4
In reply to Tyler:

You keep saying how businesses shouldn't be expected to stay the same as they were, even citing the last time someone went as 7 years ago - of course they aren't, but you do realise that Erics cafe's didn't have a sole customer - Andy Hardy right? That it's a major climbing spot and that lots and lots of people go there as it's got to be the most conveniently placed cafe for a climbing spot probably in Britain? And that as a result people came to rely on that service and that they would still have a viable and profitable business even if they doubled the prices, simply because of its position? Making yourself come off as exclusive and ungrateful for the business which regulars and visitors alike provide is straight up stupid... FFS they are providing people with some tents and a coverted horse box, it's not the Ritz... I charge less for a 100m^2 flat in the Dolomites which can accommodate 4 in peak ski  season which is 5 minutes from the largest Ski carousel in the europe. The price for glamping is frankly ridiculous when you consider what it costs to set up...

In reply to beardy mike:

I’ve made no comment on their business model, I don’t know if it is viable or not, I don’t know if it is better than what they had before or not. What I am saying is it’s entirely up to them to try and people calling them miserable or pulling their business apart just because we are nostalgic for something that was of its time years ago is pretty distasteful.

37
 Co1in H 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Too many people don't appreciate the 24 hour clock.

Red Leader over and out.

 Ger_the_gog 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Tyler:

I called them miserable because they sound miserable. Nothing to do with nostalgia.

1
 kevin stephens 31 Mar 2022

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder: Eric’s campsite was under the radar without council authorisation. I understand that when the new owners applied to license the campsite they were faced with a lot of regulations including a severe restriction on the number of persons/tents permitted .

I can’t really blame the new owners for trying to make a living and return on investment; probably set by the estate agent’s view of earnings potential rather than previous takings and maybe Eric’s need for a pension, but anyone visiting on a weekday or weekend when it’s too cold/hot/wet to climb would get an understanding of how low average  turn over would be.

I miss Eric’s terribly ( except his poor coffee) but times move on. Being robust self reliant climbers I’m sure we will manage. As it is the new owners will provide longstay parking ( not open yet but soon will be) at an acceptable price and the availability of proper coffee and snacks or meals should I want them. That’s good for me.

Post edited at 16:51
4
 robhorton 31 Mar 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

> and to the pitchfork wielders: ITS ONLY THE B&B THAT IS ADULTS ONLY, NOT THE CAFE!

It appears to be the whole site:

"We will be open for coffee & cake in the afternoons from 2-6 but are closed on Mondays and Tuesdays. Enjoy off road parking. Escape and relax with coffee and cake in the new quirky adults only dining room... "

 Iamgregp 31 Mar 2022
In reply to Le Sapeur:

Oh I'm sure there are, but just like duck billed platypuses, I've never seen one and they're very unusual.

That one you've linked to looks like my idea of hell.

 jezb1 31 Mar 2022
In reply to kevin stephens:

“As we are an adults only Glamping B&B site, with limited seating, the whole site is adults only. Thankfully we are blessed in this area to have numerous brilliant cafes, coffee shops and restaurants that are for families.”

That’s what the owners have said.

 hang_about 31 Mar 2022
In reply to jezb1:

I went on an organised climbing weekend a long while ago. They put us up in a B&B which said adults only. The very friendly host was somewhat surprised that the people staying were not all sleeping in the same room. I wondered about the 'adults only' until I saw the very explicit torsos that adorned the hallways - and then the rainbow flag flying overhead. It was a great place to stay and very friendly - but we weren't their usual clientele. 

 kevin stephens 31 Mar 2022
In reply to jezb1: fair enough, post edited, I’ve not seen many climbers take their children to Eric’s cafe, 

In reply to Fat Bumbly2:

I once woke up in that ‘stagecoach’ in the car park opposite the Tyn y Coed in Capel Curig. Early Sunday morning, feeling like death, just lying in it. I only found out the trail of events that lead there from Llanberis via Deiniolen the night before, relatively recently. I have no recollection, nada!

Does that count as glamping?

In reply to Tyler:

> "is pretty distasteful."

So is slagging off your customers to your customers.

1
In reply to Tyler:

I said I had unpleasant interactions because I did. The food might be better than it once was, but they've burnt their bridges for me taking clients there again. 

I also supported them when going for planning permission, which was to continue to provide a campsite (which as far as I'm concerned they aren't currently).

I work to develop good relationships with clients and potential clients and I certainly don't badmouth them or take them for granted.

Post edited at 17:56
 rachelpearce01 01 Apr 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

Beat me to that recommendation. Their pizzas are worth driving for regardless of where you are in north wales. You can even get cocktails!

1
In reply to rachelpearce01:

It's dangerously close for a takeaway from our house!

 alan moore 02 Apr 2022

In reply to Bulls Crack:

> Good luck to the Western-stylee wagon dwellers 

Surely they should circle those wagons if they're hoping to keep the kids out!

 Offwidth 02 Apr 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

It's really sad things went this way but some of the responsibility was down to a minority of badly behaved climbers who felt they had a right to park all day, reducing capacity for passing customers. They were clearly frustrated with such behaviour the last time I spoke to them. I should imagine this led to quite a few terse discussions.  Some climbers didn't even buy anything from the cafe.

5
In reply to Offwidth:

I can sort of see their point, but it was a paid car park with no time limit.

1
In reply to Offwidth:

Parking wasn't free.
They would probably do better if they levelled the cafe, painted lines on the whole plot and installed a ticket machine. Especially if they're going to turn it into the kind of place that has lots of laminated signs beginning with "NO..."

Irt Alex Riley:

> I also supported them when going for planning permission, which was to continue to provide a campsite (which as far as I'm concerned they aren't currently).

Damn right they're not. Options range from £104 to £143 /night. That's not even *amping. That's well into hotel money. I would say best of luck to them, but I wouldn't mean it.

1
 Rich W Parker 02 Apr 2022
In reply to jezb1:

Happening with the passing of time all over the country, the Kingshouse being another example.

 Offwidth 02 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Parking for the Cafe was free when I last spoke to them. Trying to use that as an all day option for the price of a coffee wasn't fair. They seemed like nice enough folk and the food was good (always nice to find oatcakes outside Staffs).

Being snooty about glamping as a business is just childish. Some people clearly happily pay that.

13
 profitofdoom 02 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

> Just seen on Facebook Eric's Cafe now known as Hadfer is reopening on Friday. No Cafe, but open for coffee and cake 2.00 - 6.00.  

> Long stay car park open 10.00 - 6.00, not sure of costs 

My memories of Eric's a few decades ago are great. Free parking, affordable food and tea, loads of climbers. We turned up, parked, did a couple of routes on Craig Bwlch y Moch (Tremadog), ate a meal, had tea, took off again. *Sigh* for the lost past

Edit, we would all ALWAYS eat a meal and have tea/ coffee in the cafe, in recognition of the free parking

Post edited at 13:24
1
 GrahamD 02 Apr 2022
In reply to profitofdoom:

Even under Eric's ownership,  parking hadn't been free for a long time.  You bought a raffle ticket for 50p or some such at the cafe.

I used to love Eric's but, like Pete's, it was never the best quality breakfast going.  But it was Eric's. 

In reply to Offwidth:

> Being snooty about glamping as a business is just childish. Some people clearly happily pay that.

Not for a campsite. Which is what they led everyone to believe they needed support for a planning application for.

1
 profitofdoom 02 Apr 2022
In reply to GrahamD:

> Even under Eric's ownership,  parking hadn't been free for a long time.  You bought a raffle ticket for 50p or some such at the cafe.....

Thanks for the information - I didn't know that - I don't remember that, and anyway I was young and a passenger in cars, I suppose the driver knew about it

 Moacs 02 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

Have any of the outraged been in touch with owners re more basic camping and or parking?

10
In reply to LouN:

I stayed there in 2018, a short time after they'd taken over from Eric. Given what you and others now say, I wish I hadn't been so supportive of their enterprise at the time. Clearly it was bullshit.  What a great shame. I remember the place even before Eric, when it was Mrs Williams's barn. At that time I'm not sure there was a café, just a petrol pump - perhaps someone can remind me?

 kevin stephens 02 Apr 2022
In reply to Moacs: As I understand it when the new owners applied for registration the council severely limited the number of campers. This was imposed AFTER the planning application which hoped to permit camping for a lot more people.

Hence the old unlicensed camping in Eric’s day would become illegal. Glamping allows the new owners to maximise revenue from the limited number of places. According to the website long stay parking will be available soon

Post edited at 15:54
 jezb1 02 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

Being fairly local I'm never going to stay at the campsite whether it's £5 or £100 a night.

What I resent is going in to a cafe to (happily) pay for parking, just like I did when it was Eric's, ask if I could use the toilet and then getting a turbo rant from one of the owners.

"Climbers expect everything for free, never spend any money in the cafe" blah blah. Most working days at Tremadog used to end in coffee / ice cream / can of coke etc. They won't any more, the owners have just come across in a very unfriendly manner to me and others and I just don't need that in my life.

I'm sure they've had a tough time with Covid and taking over a new business. They can have whatever setup they like, none of my business, it's just they won't get my business due to their rather unwelcoming atmosphere.

2
 Offwidth 02 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

As Kevin said, they did seek permission for a campsite but they couldn't get it. It's wise to  be more careful misrepresenting people publicly like that.

It's really sad that jez gets such a reaction for a perfectly reasonable request (and presumably no previous bad behaviour) but when entitled climbers annoy the owners too often (and the owners lack the patience of saints), I guess this is where we end up: everyone loses.

7
In reply to Offwidth:

As we've all said, for as long as most of us can remember, both pre- and post Eric, climbers paid for parking. Parking was offered as a service for a fee. If the new owners didn't like their arrangement they were free to charge more or stop offering it. Paying for and receiving a service is not 'entitled'. It's wise to be more careful misrepresenting people publicly like that.

4
 Mick Ward 02 Apr 2022
In reply to jon:

> I remember the place even before Eric, when it was Mrs Williams's barn. At that time I'm not sure there was a café, just a petrol pump - perhaps someone can remind me?

If I remember correctly, Eric took over the cafe circa 1978. I dossed in the barn across the road for a couple of weeks in 1974 and I seem to remember the cafe being there then. 

Mick 

1
 Howard J 02 Apr 2022
In reply to Mick Ward:

> I dossed in the barn across the road for a couple of weeks in 1974 and I seem to remember the cafe being there then. 

You're right, there was definitely a cafe there in '74. I went to Wales that summer with some mates from university.  We camped in the Pass (which you could get away with in those days) and it absolutely pissed down all week.  We'd fester in our tents until our bladders could take no more, then head down to Wendy's for brews. Eventually we'd decide the rain wasn't going to let up, so we'd drive round to Tremadog, where it would also be raining. We'd then drink tea in the cafe there, until finally the rain stopped and we'd manage a climb or two.  Then back to the Pass, where we might even manage another climb, before going to the Vaynol to get bladdered.  Next morning it would be pissing down again, and we'd repeat the routine again.  Happy days.

 ChrisJD 03 Apr 2022
In reply to profitofdoom:

Me too - so many happy memories of climbing / staying at Trem from the mid 80s going into the 90s; 

Eric was always great with us - (and a small dose of hero worship on my part as a young (then) climber)  

 Offwidth 03 Apr 2022

In reply to Maggot:

I wouldn't say I'm particularly 'in the know' as I'm not local but I was very aware the cafe and parking were important to climbers and the BMC and I do know many who are heavily involved in access work.

I always talk to cafe staff and spend money but especially so in those important to climbers and did so in that cafe quite a few times after the new owners took over (at times when I could have got another route in). Cafes are facing difficult times for various reasons and I'd hope climbers think about that and try to use them more.

As for effluent, I hadn't come across the issue before but if the owners were seeking formal permission for camping for the first time I wouldn't be surprised if they had to put in water treatment. I see the 'gentrification' as almost totally the fault of the decision to limit numbers such that high price glamping was the best option to run a viable business.

5

In reply to Maggot:

I was told about this by the woman there. Apparently when Eric owned it there wasn't any water treatment and all the waste went straight into the river, so they had to spend an unexpected £40000 on putting in some sort of septic tank facility. I've got no reason to believe this isn't true, and to be charitable to them for a second might well have influenced a change in their business plan away from a campsite and towards more profitable glamping.

3
 kevin stephens 03 Apr 2022

In reply to tehmarks: what makes you think they didn’t? What do you mean by charitable?

Post edited at 12:12

In reply to tehmarks:

Yes, I'd expect that too, but I don't know for sure and neither do you. I do know that plans change when you hit unexpected bumps in the road.

 ExiledScot 03 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

Give it 5 years and things will go full circle, people will realise what a scam over priced glamping is, then they'll either sell up or look back towards biker, climbers and locals to shore up their business. In the intervening period they've got chance to get over themselves. 

1
 Offwidth 03 Apr 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

I see glamping becoming more popular. The wealth gap in the UK is sadly increasing fast and it seems to me an attractive activity for some of those with money to spare. Such folk will also want the cafe experience that suits them.

3
 mrjonathanr 03 Apr 2022
In reply to Offwidth:

They will know soon enough from their bookings but I expect you are correct in this. There’s a sizeable community able to afford these prices, which begs the question: how many other basic campsite providers will reconsider their business model over the next few years?

In reply to Offwidth:

> I see glamping becoming more popular. The wealth gap in the UK is sadly increasing fast and it seems to me an attractive activity for some of those with money to spare. Such folk will also want the cafe experience that suits them.

Totally agree with this, even though I cannot fathom why. It costs the same as staying in a hotel. And not even a crap hotel. Like, a fairly decent one. It's beyond baffling to me. I'm fully supportive of anyone taking money from people who will pay for that.

To be clear, I've got the arse with this outfit because I've had a couple of experiences there similar to what jez described. Having paid for parking in the morning and climbed until mid afternoon I've gone in for brews and cakes and a couple of ice creams (i.e. as much as they're willing to sell me because everything substantial is off the menu after about 2pm) and been treated like an inconvenience. First time, just after they took over, they were nice and pleasant and chatty. Every visit since, not so much.

In reply to pancakeandchips:

> Apparently when Eric owned it there wasn't any water treatment and all the waste went straight into the river.....

I don't believe that at all. It's just impossible to live and work next to 40+ years of shit dumped into a ditch at the back of the café. That's just bollocks.

2
In reply to jon:

> I don't believe that at all. It's just impossible to live and work next to 40+ years of shit dumped into a ditch at the back of the café. That's just bollocks.

Even harder to buy a place and not ask any questions about a shit-filled ditch lining one side of it

1
 mrjonathanr 03 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

> Totally agree with this, even though I cannot fathom why. It costs the same as staying in a hotel. And not even a crap hotel. Like, a fairly decent one. It's beyond baffling to me.

Really, it's not hard. There are a lot of people for whom this is not a lot of money, who are not typical outdoor users and want to experience a nice setting with a fairly high level of comfort.

In reply to mrjonathanr:

But it costs the same as this: https://booking.welcome-anywhere.net/booking/s/74380A39CDD14EEC9497F658B

I don't get it. At all. If it was some halfway compromise on price and comfort I'd understand. But it's not. It's hotel prices for a hut/shed/fancy tent on a campsite, where you still have to put shoes on to go for a piss. Each to their own though / one born every minute etc...

Post edited at 16:50
1
 profitofdoom 03 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

>  ......I don't get it. At all. If it was some halfway compromise on price and comfort I'd understand. But it's not. It's hotel prices for a hut/shed/fancy tent on a campsite, where you still have to put shoes on to go for a piss. Each to their own though / one born every minute etc...

Absolutely right. Baby profitofdoom went glamping once, in a supposedly good place. She said it was really rubbish, sleeping in a lousy hut in a lousy location (right, campsite-like) with very poor facilities at hotel prices. And the worst thing was they didn't sleep a wink because of noise from happy glampers coming through the paper-thin walls

 mrjonathanr 03 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Sure, I was not saying this set up is a good deal, just that there are plenty of people who won't bat an eye lid at the cost for this sort of semi-camping experience.

In reply to profitofdoom:

The legislation for septic tank and soakaways changed in 2020, so this was most likely the reason for an upgrade or replacement of an existing system. Unfortunate but not unforeseeable (where I was working at the time was already working towards replacement of their septic system when Eric's changed hands).

 ExiledScot 03 Apr 2022
In reply to mrjonathanr:

> Really, it's not hard. There are a lot of people for whom this is not a lot of money, who are not typical outdoor users and want to experience a nice setting with a fairly high level of comfort.

And in a few years they'll have all glamped and moved on. 

In reply to David Bowler:

I go to breaktimes frequently, always welcoming.

And the horror!!! I even took my 14 year old son with me last time.. a child eating a drinking in a café, how unreasonable

In reply to Alex Riley:

> Y garreg cafe in llanfrothen 5 mins down the road does great food and the owners all climb. The do a great post climb pizza on a Friday and Saturday too.

Thanks, useful to know!! The only decent cafi I know had been breaktimes in Porthmadog and Lakeside cafe in Tanygrisiau (perfect for Moelwyns, and underground stuff too), useful to know another one!

Post edited at 18:35
 Rick Graham 03 Apr 2022
In reply to jon:

> I don't believe that at all. It's just impossible to live and work next to 40+ years of shit dumped into a ditch at the back of the café. That's just bollocks.

There was always a smell as long as I been going there (early seventies) and often toilets out of use through blockage.

Its also possible that a basic septic tank existed but was just overloaded.

After just selling a house with a shared septic tank I have been forced to become knowledgeable about the new "Binding Rules " regarding discharges to watercourses.

Quick summary, any discharge over 2m3 / day ( roughly 13 bedrooms over a few domestic properties)  needs to  have a "discharge permit". Cafes and other commercial discharge volumes are calculated from water meter usage and other parameters.

1
In reply to CantClimbTom:

Lakeside cafe is the best! I love that place.

 mik82 03 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

The nearest campsite to me in Gower charges £59.50 per night for a (bring your own) tent pitch over the summer holidays and it's fully booked up. The money is there and people are (currently) prepared to pay for it. 

Post edited at 19:40
1
 Myfyr Tomos 03 Apr 2022
In reply to pancakeandchips:

We have a "lake cafe" in Trawsfynydd as well, called Caffi'r Llyn. Turn off the A470 into the nuclear power station 😁, and then immediately left. Super food and friendly service.

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Yes, I know the one, good scones. I've spent a lot of time working for welsh water at the hydro site in Tanygrisiau so /that/ lakeside cafe has a special place in my heart.

OP LouN 03 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

In response to what seemed to be contradictory information, I have just asked the question about children on the Hadfer facebook page. They answered very quickly and children will be allowed in the cafe in the afternoon,  but not in the restaurant at night.  Which is great for us, as we always used to take our son in for cake after climbing at Tremadog 

Post edited at 19:54
In reply to Rick Graham:

> There was always a smell as long as I been going there (early seventies) and often toilets out of use through blockage.

> Its also possible that a basic septic tank existed but was just overloaded.

Yes, there was a smell - in fact H's brother once took a direct line from the car park to the camping area in the dark and fell headlong into the ditch. He didn't smell of roses afterwards, either. But to claim that Eric dumped raw sewage into the ditch is bollocks and libellous. I reckon, like you, there was an overloaded septic tank. We have a 6 person sewage micro station at home as there is no foul sewer in our road. It cost 7000€ installed 5 years ago. Which is a lot less than £40,000 even taking into account the different size. I'm beginning to dislike these people more and more. That's 50+ years of hospitality and friendship towards climbers down the drain.

3
 jezb1 03 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

> In response to what seemed to be contradictory information, I have just asked the question about children on the Hadfer facebook page. They answered very quickly and children will be allowed in the cafe in the afternoon,  but not in the restaurant at night.  Which is great for us, as we always used to take our son in for cake after climbing at Tremadog 

Interestingly they’ve deleted their answer to a previous question contradicting that so I guess they’ve changed their minds!

In reply to mik82:

I'm not disputing that people will pay £130 a night for accommodation. What I'm not getting is why, given the choice between a £130 king double with en suite shower and whirlpool bath or a £130 shed in a field that shares a toilet block with 20 people and 2000 mosquitos, both options within half a mile, they'd chose the latter.

Post edited at 20:36
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

#livingmybestadventure

 mik82 03 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

People pay money for anything. Like spending £60-80k on a new VW California to live the "van life" and still have to shit in a bag/bush when you can have decades of amazing holidays for the same amount of money.

5
 kaiser 03 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

> In response to what seemed to be contradictory information, I have just asked the question about children on the Hadfer facebook page. They answered very quickly and children will be allowed in the cafe in the afternoon,  but not in the restaurant at night.  Which is great for us, as we always used to take our son in for cake after climbing at Tremadog 

Yes that was pretty obvious TBH

9
In reply to mik82:

> People pay money for anything. Like spending £60-80k on a new VW California to live the "van life" and still have to shit in a bag/bush when you can have decades of amazing holidays for the same amount of money.

Ah yeah but those people aren't quite representative; they bitch violently and relentlessly about having to pay a fiver for a pitch to put it on.

6
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Slight tangent, but the other weekend I had a bit of a late return from a long outing in the Peak. Cutting back across from Higgar to Apparent North after dark, i thought I'd wandered into a caravan park. Nine vans/motorhomes, all at the same tiny area of parking. Nine.

What the 'ck?

4
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

There's not many pitches out there for a fiver, and less and less all the time. See, for example, this thread.

Also, wtf is wrong with shitting in a bag? Surely people sleeping in vans taking their waste away with them is to be encouraged?

1
In reply to pancakeandchips:

> Also, wtf is wrong with shitting in a bag?...

Precisely. I tried to make the exact same argument recently, but the security bloke at Sainsbury's checkout was having none of it.

 gethin_allen 04 Apr 2022
In reply to Darren Jackson:

> Precisely. I tried to make the exact same argument recently, but the security bloke at Sainsbury's checkout was having none of it.

Maybe you should have offered to actually buy the bag for life you were using.

 Rob Exile Ward 04 Apr 2022
In reply to Mick Ward:

The Williams owned the petrol station in 1970, and were serving teas (and wagon wheels!) back then, but there was nowhere inside to sit. There was the toilet block though, which we used when we stayed in the barn, with the toilet role holder: 'Don't sit there all day, dreaming of that £5,000' (which was the top premium bond prize of the day..)

I also fell into the drainage ditch one night; it was disgusting. Trying to have a full body wash by candlelight in the Barn was no joke.

 Rick51 04 Apr 2022
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I first went there in 1968 and remember them selling tea - was it through a hatch?

 Alex1 04 Apr 2022
In reply to mik82:

> The nearest campsite to me in Gower charges £59.50 per night for a (bring your own) tent pitch over the summer holidays and it's fully booked up. The money is there and people are (currently) prepared to pay for it. 

This won't last long-term post pandemic - but can't blame the owners for responding to demand.   I suspect people will be weary of foreign summer holidays for at least the next couple of summers so will be a thing for a while.

 gethin_allen 04 Apr 2022
In reply to Alex1:

Camping on Gower has always been expensive and this particular campsite mentioned is one of the more expensive.

A lot of them also have minimum stays so if you just want to turn up for a few days climbing on the weekend with a single night stay you'd be looking at paying double.

The stupid thing is that the owners of the sites complain about people parking up in vans on Cefn Bryn nearby and try to restrict other campsites opening.

1
 Solaris 04 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

Nice to read through this thread and be reminded of happy times at Tremadoc, especially of Eric's gift for hospitality, and also of the sometimes non-functioning loos/bogs. But I'm also wondering what he'd make of some of the comments about how things are now.

In reply to aostaman:

> We all wish that some things would just stay the same, however, the people who have bought this business (and remember how difficult this has been particularly in Wales) have come to the conclusion that we (as in climbers) just don't bring in enough money. This conclusion might make us sad for a rose tinted spectacled past but I'm surprised that we have been so lucky for so long.

> They have clearly headed for a higher yielding camping operation (with doubtless a significant investment). This is their right, no-one else here on this site wanted to invest their hard earned cash and take that risk, I definitely wouldn't have done so.

> The greater risk is that they take the view in the future that parking at £3.50 is not working either and the recommendation that 'just park on the road' is as great a hostage to fortune as I can imagine. Highways and the local authority will soon bring that to an end. We'll end up with another 'Pass and Ogwen' problem.

> I would say that we should all wish them well and with the BMC to work through a long term solution based on mutual interest even if you don't want coffee and cake (and that includes me).

Perhaps so but excluding kids from your market (well to do families being probably the biggest potential money source for glamping and the like, it's a cafe not a Michelin Starred restaurant) seems just stupid.

In reply to Offwidth:

> It's really sad things went this way but some of the responsibility was down to a minority of badly behaved climbers who felt they had a right to park all day, reducing capacity for passing customers. They were clearly frustrated with such behaviour the last time I spoke to them. I should imagine this led to quite a few terse discussions.  Some climbers didn't even buy anything from the cafe.

It was a longstay carpark with a price for that service! (I never saw the shortstay car park full to the point where customers would be unable to park)

Further more it was pretty normal (for me) to stop for a tea and cake at least once between climbs.

Post edited at 12:19
In reply to Offwidth:

> As Kevin said, they did seek permission for a campsite but they couldn't get it. It's wise to  be more careful misrepresenting people publicly like that.

> It's really sad that jez gets such a reaction for a perfectly reasonable request (and presumably no previous bad behaviour) but when entitled climbers annoy the owners too often (and the owners lack the patience of saints), I guess this is where we end up: everyone loses.

I'll have to take your word for it about these 'entitled climbers'. I'm only going off the way I and everyone I know behaved.

 Offwidth 05 Apr 2022
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I guess I tended to go there on the weekends when there was more pressure and the long stay part and most other convenient spaces were quickly full. My apologies for causing confusion....I mistakenly thought it would be obvious the owners were not complaining to me about climbers parking in the long stay section.

There was also a fair bit of shit in the woods: something I'd never noticed on previous visits (under the crag, around the roadside parking areas).

4
 mrjonathanr 08 Apr 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

Went there today, they were really welcoming. Home baked bread was great too, thanks for the steer.

In reply to mrjonathanr:

I'd be quite keen for some BMC funded loos at BYM, for the last two years the nearest ones have been at Tesco in Porthmadog.

The breads great, the hardest bit is getting there when they have any left!

In reply to Alex Riley:

> I'd be quite keen for some BMC funded loos at BYM, for the last two years the nearest ones have been at Tesco in Porthmadog.

Now that would be a great idea - does the BMC own the land under the crag or just the rocks?. Is there any way the bits of the old road could be used for parking? My memory is a little hazy re the layout. You should put your suggestion to  the BMC...

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

Black tie, suit and polished shoes

 brianjcooper 09 Apr 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

> I'd be quite keen for some BMC funded loos at BYM, for the last two years the nearest ones have been at Tesco in Porthmadog.

A great idea if everyone who uses them, climbers and general public, pay for the regular maintenance that would be required. Joining the BMC, who own the crag might help too. 

 Phil1919 09 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned in this thread but I'm watching 'The Hidden', BBC 4, and it has sequences set in Eric's cafe. Quite good fun, if not a bit of a dark and forbidding plot.

 Offwidth 10 Apr 2022
In reply to Phil1919:

It's a good game trying to spot Hidden locations.

The house on the island off Anglesey is up for sale as well: under a million on Rightmove.

 Offwidth 10 Apr 2022
In reply to brianjcooper:

One thing is for sure... we will never have a toilet on most crags so climbers should be carrying something like Wagbags in case they get caught out.

9
In reply to Offwidth:

> One thing is for sure... we will never have a toilet on most crags 

Of course not. But perhaps the BMC could think about it for the crags that they own.

1
 ExiledScot 10 Apr 2022
In reply to jon:

Who will fund it, clean it etc..? 

 GrahamD 10 Apr 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

That's the issue, isn't it ?  I'm not sure that funding the cleaning and maintenance of public toilets is a great use for BMC funds.

 Maggot 10 Apr 2022
In reply to ExiledScot:

Put a roof on it and charge £12.70 per visit.

"Crookrise Climbing Crucible' has a certain ring about it.

 ExiledScot 10 Apr 2022
In reply to GrahamD:

And the fact that the discussion over Eric's has highlighted the lack of a system to tap into so it would need a new water supply and septic system. Rather than increase bmc fees for climbers, it is likely more cost effective to buy a drink in any cafe and dump there. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

> Who will fund it, clean it etc..? 

Good question - and by the way, I'm not on a crusade here - but since you asked:

The type I had in mind needs minimal maintenance - light maintenance once a year, and needs emptying once every five to fifteen years. This is the type that is installed at  Chateauvert and which has been there for quite a few years. It needs no water and just does not smell.  https://sanisphere-fr.com/en/toilettes-publiques-eco-responsables-english/

Funding - well the BMC fund other stuff, why not something that is clearly needed here given the attitude of the the café's owners, and as Offwidth said:

> There was also a fair bit of shit in the woods: something I'd never noticed on previous visits (under the crag, around the roadside parking areas)

 ExiledScot 10 Apr 2022
In reply to jon:

I'm liking the looking of that, just stick one up the far end out the way, all that's need is some swipe card entry for bmc members! 

In reply to Offwidth:

> There was also a fair bit of shit in the woods

Sounds like the work of bears 🐻

 Phil1919 10 Apr 2022
In reply to Offwidth:

That's interesting. Not really a place for a detective to live as the causeway gets well flooded. What about the spooky House in the trees? Is that for real in nth Wales somewhere?

3
 GrahamD 11 Apr 2022
In reply to jon:

Public toilets aren't "clearly needed" here any more than any other crag in the country.  Less, given the abundance of facilities in nearby Porthmadog.

7
In reply to GrahamD:

Whilst people taking their waste away is obviously the ideal, it isn't happening currently. I've travelled and climbed all over, their are lots of countries that have suitable low cost and sustainable solutions, such as the above.

In reply to GrahamD:

Maybe so, but this particular crag is

- very popular and accesible

- owned by the BMC

- has a problem with mess

As a member of the BMC I'd be very happy with some of my subs being spent on this. And maybe some of the professionals using the crag for business could chip in something as well?

1
 kevin stephens 11 Apr 2022
In reply to pancakeandchips: as a member of the BMC would you be happy being on a rota to clean the toilets for a few days a year? According to this example it can cost £21,000 per annum to operate a public toilet https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/free-public-loos-dying-out-24901243.amp

How would the vast majority of BMC members who don’t frequent Tremadog feel about paying for your convenience?

Post edited at 15:26
1
In reply to kevin stephens:

Well, since I don't live nearby anymore it's not exactly for my convenience. But yes, I'd be happy for a portion of my subs to pay for cleaning, and if I did live locally I'd be more than happy to do a shift. 

6
 Maggot 11 Apr 2022
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Cleaning out a chemical bog used by the public and disposing of the waste? I'd put good money on that you'd soon get bored with that!

I wouldn't do it for free.

3
 Rick Graham 11 Apr 2022
In reply to Maggot:

Last time I was at the dubh loch/ lochnagar parking in glen muick , a local turned up early morning to clean the loos.

Its called community.

In reply to Maggot:

I won’t do it as a job, but I’ve occasionally done it for free.

In reply to kevin stephens:

We have 2 public loos in our village. The cost last year was £71,000 pa for maintenance. £35k each. That is probably a fair norm. 

Then of course you'd need a planning application,  sounds like an environmental and waste water survey. A new sewage system and £100k for the actual building. Probably £150k all up. 

The capital alone is about 5% of the BMC revenues. They might, and of course I don't speak for them, but they just might say that unlike most crags there's one there already. 

6
 robhorton 11 Apr 2022
In reply to aostaman:

I assumed people are talking about a single composting toilet in a shed type thing, as an alternative to crapping in the woods, rather than a proper toilet block you'd use out of choice.

In reply to robhorton:

Any public toilet waste amenity will require planning permission at the very least and there’s no mains drainage. Maybe a composting toilet is technically feasible but I suspect it would be a very hard sell in this environment. 

3
 Rob Parsons 11 Apr 2022
In reply to Alex Riley:

> I'd be quite keen for some BMC funded loos at BYM, for the last two years the nearest ones have been at Tesco in Porthmadog.

To make your own position clear here: are you a commercial operator (of some kind) who makes money from taking people climbing at Tremadog?

2
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Yes, along with many other providers (including publicly funded outdoor centers). 

My suggestion really isn't outrageous, it's very common in other countries to have (often low cost) loo facilities in popular spots. For example trailheads in Canada often have composting loos, crag parking in Frankenjura often have portaloos etc...

Perhaps BMC organised/sanctioned would be a better phrase closer to what I meant. I'd happily contribute to installation and maintenance efforts as a regular crag user.

In reply to Alex Riley:

The UK is very poor at public toilet provision (and I see it as disability, age and gender discrimination all in one; I can't think of another issue that ticks 3 protected characteristics in one).  I would support more public toilets anywhere.

Post edited at 07:16
In reply to pancakeandchips:

> As a member of the BMC I'd be very happy with some of my subs being spent on this.

If the BMC were to get into the business of building chod bins at crags, I'd suggest they probably quite reasonably wouldn't start with crags that have a cafe at the bottom and are on the doorstep of a substantial town.

> And maybe some of the professionals using the crag for business could chip in something as well?

Would have to be funded this way to be a goer. Or, more realistically, they could come to some arrangement with the owners of the bogs that are already right there.

1
In reply to Neil Williams:

That's my larger gripe, there is a public toilet building in tremadog, but the council hasn't opened it in a while. 

Anyway, this has drifted a bit from the subject. Happy to be contacted by personal message if anyone has a burning desire to talk about toilets more 🤣

In reply to Alex Riley

>  Happy to be contacted by personal message if anyone has a burning desire to talk about toilets more 🤣

I think any burning in relation to toilet use would be best dealt with by a medical professional. Or maybe loosening your harness a little.

 mrjonathanr 12 Apr 2022
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

The BMC only own one crag in N Wales; there aren’t a plethora of other Welsh crags where they might provide toilets.

An agreement with the cafe owners would be a sensible step.

In reply to LouN:

Anyone who has climbed at Servoz near Chamonix will likely have parked outside the cafe opposite the crag, done some routes then ambled back across to get drinks and food and use the loo. It works well and is welcoming because people treat each other with respect and recognise what a good thing this is.

The BMC does not need to build loos, it needs to build a relationship with the owners, put together something that works regarding extending opening times, parking and loos, then we need to leave our prejudice and entitlement in our parked cars and spend a little money in the cafe to make it work. 

1
In reply to Tyler:

> I’ve made no comment on their business model, I don’t know if it is viable or not, I don’t know if it is better than what they had before or not. What I am saying is it’s entirely up to them to try and people calling them miserable or pulling their business apart just because we are nostalgic for something that was of its time years ago is pretty distasteful.

That’s the classic alt-right argument, isn’t it.

“It’s entirely up to people to do what they want to do unless that’s to express their opinion.”

I think people are well entitled to express their disappointment that a business that provided a significant public good has been replaced by something which appears to try not to.

12
In reply to S Andrew:

> That’s the classic alt-right argument, isn’t it.

You’ve either no idea of the meaning / connotations of the term alt-right, in which case you should do some reading or else, you do known the meaning, in which case you need to get a sense of proportion and also fvck right off while you are doing it.

Post edited at 13:50
3
 jon_gill1 22 Apr 2022
In reply to jezb1:

Unwelcoming and short sighted imo. Prior to having children we used to climb all over the UK and have spent many happy hours at Eric’s cafe and even been there with our eldest when she was a baby just before it changed hands.

We have a local cafe here in the Wye Valley which is fantastic and a huge percentage of its clients are passing cyclists. However the owners are very friendly and accommodating, we are always made to feel welcome with or without our children on the rare occasion we have childcare, because of this I always recommend them to anyone who asks and most often meet there prior to a climb with visiting friends even though we could easily make coffee at home. Kindness goes a long way in business and creates loyalty in return.

 gethin_allen 22 Apr 2022
In reply to LouN:

So, now that this thread is going again and now that we've had some good weather and bank holidays, has anyone been to Eric's and checked the place out? anyone care to give a review?

In reply to Tyler:

See? It’s all free speech until suddenly it isn’t.

11
OP LouN 22 Apr 2022
In reply to gethin_allen:

Don't think it's open to non residents.  There have been a couple of Facebook posts which have then been deleted. Parking is still open but not coffee and cake in the afternoon. I've driven past a few times between  2.00 and 6.00 in the afternoon and it's not been open . 

 kevin stephens 08 May 2022
In reply to LouN: we had a great day’s climbing at Tremadog on Saturday, nice to be back after too long. Had a pleasant chat with the new owners who were very friendly. Paid for parking with the app we downloaded, only £3.50 for the day (8:00 am to 8:00pm) . We were too busy climbing to use the cafe this time but I understand it is open to non residents from noon.

3

New Topic
Please Register as a New User in order to reply to this topic.
Loading Notifications...