UKC

Hi, just after some advice about escaping the system with the anchors out of reach. I can get my head round it to the point where I'm out of the system and my casualty is attached to the rear prussik (the one which strangles the lines going to the belay).

So my question is: how do I go from this point to having the casualty attached directly to the anchors? Do I need to re-rig my anchors so they are tied off to a y-hang type affair? I just can't see what I'd do... ta.

In reply to andi turner: retie your fig 8 around the screw gate that you had attached to your harness. this is now going to be your strong point (not the kleimheist) so what you need to do is tie a french prussick in front of the original tied off italian hitch you used to escape the system then using the dead rope from that italian hitch tie a new italian hitch on to your new strong point (ie where youve re tied your fig 8) pull in the slack and untie the tied off italian hitch which is attached to the kleimheist whilst still bringing the slack in on your new italian hitch, once thats done, tie that italian hitch off, undo the old system and hey presto your casualty is not on the kleimheist but attached to a strong set up.

from there you can abb down on the dead rope check whats happening and deal with the situation

hope this answers your question and maybe makes it a little clearer

steve

In reply to andi turner:

Long time since I've done this, (jumping through assessor's hoops an' all, and my language maybe not the latest jargon) but it seems like you're 99% there...What do you want to do after? I'd assume you take the 'casualty's' rope back to a krab attached to the belay anchors and either set up a hoist/pulley system or put on some sort of belay device or Italian hitch to lower casualty to the ground. Obviously, if your anchors haven't been brought to a centralised point in the first place, then it'd certainly help to do that before anything else. Now release your 'strangling' prussik (make sure it's one that will release... ) so the weight is now controlled by you. Or have I misunderstood. What you need is an answer from one of those up to date instructor chaps and not a decrepid old guide!

In reply to jon:

Pretty much as jon says.

Far easier to be shown than try to describe.

In reply to stvredmond:

Cheers everyone. This seems like the solution, I remember using a power-point or a strong-point.

Really, really helpful all, thanks.

Andi

In reply to stvredmond:
so what you need to do is tie a french prussick in front of the original tied off italian hitch

...then down for some Dutch courage and and an English breakfast?

In reply to Dave Garnett: the french prussik should still be tied from where you originally escaped the system. just need to get the italian hitch off the kleimhiest.

easier than i make it sound.

Dutch courage is always a good thing and a fulll english breakfast essentail before considering what to do with your casaulty

In reply to andi turner:

Power point - there, I knew there was a word for it!

In reply to all:

A-ha, so yes, now we are getting somewhere:

1) Full English
2) Tie off belay (slippery wotsit and two half thingamees)
3) French prussick in front of belay, Klemheist strangling the ropes to anchors behind, link the two with a sling and 'ready' them to bite.
4) Release the tied off belay and pay out enough slack to allow prussicks to take the weight.
5) Attach the dead rope to the klemheist with an Italian Hitch and then release the sticht plate.
6) Tie off the italian hitch, make myself safe (cowstail into anchor rope/another prusick etc)

7) Escape system

8) Tie a double figure eight back into the rope I've just untied myself from and clip this into the 'biner which is still attached to the anchors but which is presently hanging flacid beneath the klemheist (effectively completing the belay system as it was, but without me tied into it). This double figure eight becoming the 'power-point'.
9) Clip a 'biner into the power-point and attach the dead rope from the tied off Italian Hitch.
10) Release the Klemheist Italian Hitch and take in the slack onto the new power point Italian Hitch and then tie this off.
11) Be strong and release the friction from the French Prussick taking the weight of the stricken climber onto Power-Point.
12) Dutch Courage
13) Do what I need to do using the remaining dead rope from the Power Point (remembering to attach it via it's own knot to the powerpoint 'biner if I'm abseiling and not simply ab off the tied off hitches on the Italian hitch).
14) Save the day, do another route.

In reply to andi turner: exactly what he said, made a better job of explaining it than i did

In reply to andi turner:

Well described! There are just two rules. Remember all this comes under the title of Improvised Rescue, so remembering the mechanics of it is better than learning one scenario - in case you do have to improvise. Secondly, never build anything into it that you can't reverse/get out of. I'm assuming (maybe wrongly, of course...?) this interest maybe for a pending assessment. But to put it all into perspective, in the 27 years since my first temp job at PyB I've never had to do it for real. The nearest I've come was an assisted hoist on the chockstone pitch of that green and slimy Great Gully on Craig yr Ysfa.

In reply to andi turner:

You could also try gettig Ollie Sanders brill DVD on 'Self Rescue for Climbers'- pretty well everything you need to know in it.

In reply to jon:

Cheers Jon, the only thing wrong in your assumption is that this is a post training question as opposed to a pre assessment question - I'm just getting things straight in my mind. In twenty years of climbing, I too have never even come close to having to do anything like this, hope I never will! I just want to be slick when it comes to assessment. Really appreciate your input.

In reply to Ann:

Completely agree, I have that DVD, it just didn't quite cover this scenario. Well worth watching though, cheers.

In reply to andi turner:

I wouldn't just link the two prussics together here. Tie an Italian hitch with the sling at one end and clip in the other end. Take in the slack in the sling and with the Italian hitch and then tie it off.




What are you preparing for Andi?

In reply to Paul at work:

Leaving Mark somewhere on Main Cliff

In reply to Paul at work:

Good idea, so it can be released if the french prussic can't be released or becomes out of reach, right? Suppose a Mariner's would work too?

In reply to andi turner: Yes thats the reason. A Mariners would work as well. Good luck with leaving Mark on the Main Cliff.

In reply to andi turner:

surely everything you need to know about escaping the system is in the opening scenes of Vertical Limit.