UKC

Now I have only recently started climbing (spring this year) but so far I am yet to see many lady crag rats. Are they hiding or do they just not exist?
I know you see people like leah crane and diane merrick on dvd's but i mean the average joes like me.
I feel like climbing is a very male dominated "sport" and would just like to hear that other women not only exist but also find most holds just slightly out of reach as the average ladies are shorter than the average males; or that yes I am right in saying that overhangs are harder because we lack the upperbody strength and balancing is difficult because our arse's are heavier as our boobs stop us getting in close enough to the rock (major disadvantage).

Has anyone got any words of feminine wisdom to help me along or even just a few words of encouragement to help me feel a little less isolated?

In reply to grace jones:

I'm female, I climb, advice? Compete with the men, develop technique to get around the bits they can just reach over or use brute force, and whatever happens if they tell you how to do something think of a different way to do it cos chances are they haven't thought beyond physical attributes and so all their advice is how they would hump up it or reach over it!!

Oh and when indoors, if you get to a point which you cannot physically reach, and you have hung on the rope and proven that you cannot reach, add a hold or two, it's your climb you can do what you like!!

In reply to grace jones:

can't offer feminine wisdom - but have climbed with lots of people, men and women, so here goes...

yes there are loads of them - of all sorts of levels from the mediocre to the superb and cutting edge. In all types of climbing from bouldering to high altitude big walls. At all levels too - noy just the ones who hit the headlines - my local climbing wall is prob male dominated but not by much.

Dozens of examples in posts read here and in the mags.

I can't comment from experience on the phsiological issues you raise but by the results many women climbers achieve at the top level, it demonstrates that physical build is only one small part of achievement in climbing. Also the women tend to be less gobby about their achievements!

Have fun, good luck.

In reply to grace jones:
There are heaps of ladies out there.
I'm a shortie but taller than Lynne hill so can't complain about the reach thing.
I find my strengths differ. Less shouldery pulling style but better balance on slabby stuff. More fingers on tiny crimps would be a couple of the area's I find I have a small advantage. Experience is the true key as you begin to get a catalogue of solutions you will start knowing how to do things faster and faster for you.
Try the sequence the guys do, but then look around as well, I often use tiny intermediates or different sequences that suit me better.
Have fun!

In reply to grace jones:

You've got to remember that boobs can be an advantage too - moves such as the lesser known (and ever so slightly painful) boob mantle for instance - where boobs can fill in that role of the 'third hand'

As for balance...well in my view it seems to be that women climbers generally have better balance than the guys, possibly because of the often increased reliance on technique over pure strength.
(I can also offer the comment that my arse is actually alot less 'heavy' than that of some of my male compatriots...)

In reply to grace jones:
"i mean the average joes like me"

Don't ya mean average Janes? Or was that a freudian?

In reply to grace jones:

I see loads of girls at the wall and at the crag personally. Most of the other sports I do are quite blokey and I assumed that climbing would be teh same. It's not the case in my experience. It's good, means we've got to be a bit more civilised.

In reply to grace jones:

I always found a reasonably high proportion of females climing at generally similar levels to the men (i.e. some crap, some ok, some awsome). Far more than most other sports.

There's a local girl about 5'2" who generally outclimbs me and my son. I think in general the height issue has been done to death by now, there's another thread on it, but it's not really a male/female thing although yeah, the 'average' height for women may be smaller than the 'average' height for men.

Your 'average' lady does seem to find overhangs tricky because of the power to weight ratio...but nowhere near as tricky as the average lard-arse couch potatoe man (I'm err...older than I used to be, and finding that 20 years of easy living has shot my power to weight ratio).

I'm free at anytime to help lift your arse or your boobs if you think that's causing you a problem, but I guess they're probably not as much of a disadvantage as my neigbour's beer gut.

Fundamentally everyone is different. A girl with a 'boyish' figure, who is skinny and toned will probably climb to a higher grade than a full figured one with page three boobs and an ass like an american porn star...but it's not just about that. There are plenty of climbs you can do at whatever standard you're currently at.

Just have fun, and women will always have the advantage that you don't smell as bed as boys when you sweat.

In reply to grace jones: There are plenty of women climbers out there. Height isn't that important, Lynn Hill, Lucy Creamer are Steve Mclure all shorties. Technique is more important than build, obviously optimising your power to weight ratio helps too. Outdoors there are more options for shorter people, so think laterally and don't listen to anyone who tells you you cant climb overhangs, or whatever. If you want to do it you can.

Sorry I don't have the boob problem, but I can climb overhangs better than a lot of slimmer, stronger looking men, and I have a very female shaped butt!

Try joining a local club, as there are usually a mixture of men and women. Climbing with women is a different experience and you may feel more comfortable.

In reply to grace jones: Like others have said earlier in the thread there are a lot of women climbers. There are heaps at my local wall. I'm only 5'2 and yes sometimes inside the holds are a bit out of reach but generally I reckon if I use technique and get a bit stronger I can do the problems. Outside there is pretty much always a way of doing the climb by using smaller holds or doing the climb a slightly different was to me taller climbing partners. (Well in the grades I climb at anyway!)

Talk to some fellow ladies at you local wall and watch how they tackle certain problems. I find that most people are really friendly and helpful if your getting stuck with certain moves.

Try to find climbs that suit us shorties as well. Its a good boost to see your taller climbing buddies have a more difficult time on them, corners and some overhangs where we can get our feet up closer to our hands are good.

In reply to groovy_nut: "boob mantle"
i have actually tried this somewhat lesser known move and yes it is very useful, but i haven't quite managed to make them "grip" yet :-P

In reply to grace jones:

There are plenty of us "out there". We may have different styles, but each style has its advantages. What matters most is enjoying the climbing.

Mind you, I'm not sure I'm a "rat", any more than I am a "chick" (who invented the phrase "rock chick"?!?)

I don't know whether or not it's true, but someone told me that Joe Brown was asked what he did when he couldn't reach a hold and the answer was "I climb up to it". A motto for all short climbers. Male or female.

In reply to Padraig:

"average Janes?"

I didn't want to change common phrases into the feminine too much incase people thought i was being too feminist. didn't want to appear like i was riding my man hating high horse.

In reply to grace jones: Cant give you any advise other than stick at it, but just to say, i know at least 4 or 5 female climbers so your not alone! I got my ex girl friend into climbing a few months ago and she loves it! So try bringing along some female friends?

In reply to grace jones:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,10790.0.html

In reply to Starkey92:

There must be at least 50 that post on here!

In reply to grace jones: have you thought of going along to a Pinnacle Club meet? All women climbers and not a single one who will take shortness or boobs as an excuse for failing to reach a hold! They have meets all over the country and you'll quickly find other women in your area to climb with

In reply to grace jones:
Advice? don't get into a seconding rut, lead as much as you can even if it means a lower grade and a different partner.

Clubs are better than boyfriends for climbing as there's usually a group of all levels and both sexes. Our club has about 70%/30% male female and I see loads of women at the crag wherever we go.

Try ice climbing. You can make the holds wherever you like so height doesn't matter )

To be honest, I don't even climb with my hands anymore, just my boobs. It's the new rage.

In reply to Musique:

Interesting when we're talking ice climbing :P

In reply to Will Hunt:

Not very politically correct...but very entertaining neway

In reply to grace jones:

>female climbers ... are there any out there?

No - in fact you might be the first.

But just think.. ...all those FFA to claim

In reply to Tiberius:
Pffft! The ladies of UKB have a dead fit blokes who go climbing thread which has seen some action. All about equality.

In reply to grace jones:


Wayy too late Grace!!

In reply to grace jones:

The best climbing advice I ever got was "climb like a girl". A good female climber will almost always climb more smoothly, technicaly and with less effort and more intelligence than a male climber of the same standard.

In reply to Will Hunt:


Oh, I do agree! Shirtless pics please submit! It's only fair!


In reply to Tiberius:


It's all about the cleavage.

In reply to grace jones:

Don't think you're looking in the right places.

Just got back from the UKC Christmas Meet at Elterwater and I'd day that nearly half the 30-odd UKCers there were women...all of them who climb at various levels.

I was on a meet with my local club in Wales last month and I think that 6 out of 13 attendees were women.

In reply to Rob Naylor:

You stud!!

In reply to grace jones:

I'm in a similar position in that I'm female and started climbing in the spring. I don't know if you're into indoor climbing at all, but if you are, I've found quite a bit of variation in climbing walls...

I'm from the flat southeast, and I sometimes climb at Harlow wall, and although it's friendly enough, there aren't a lot of other women there... this makes sense when I try the routes and many of them are very reachy and quite powerful - there's a F3+ which I can't get up because the obvious hold is out of my reach so for me it would be a big leap above an overhang (alternatively, I could pull up on a single handhold, but that's not a 3+ move either).

When this got frustrating, I moved to the Castle in London, and the style there seems much more female-friendly - less power and reach, and much more about delicate balance, bendiness and technique, so I can get up the F6a and some 6b climbs there (and it's not just that the grades are an ego-massage, it's that the grading is similar enough to my style that I can accurately judge how difficult I will find the climb, and I have more choice and variety, which really helps). I'm obviously not the only woman who feels this way, because quite often I look around in the top-roping area and see that men are in the minority.

So personally, I have managed to improve my climbing and get a feeling of achievement by playing to my strengths and "climbing like a girl". I've taken some complete noob male friends climbing, and at the beginning, they could outclimb me because they had better arm strength. But I've been persevering with the indoors practice, so these days I can outclimb them because I've had to learn the techniques (and they fall off the slabs with teeny weeny footholds because they have GREAT BIG FEET).

In reply to grace jones:
Just went down my club's current membership list and 33 out of 83 members are women, which isn't too bad for a sport that's perceived to be male dominated. Having said that, only a couple of the 33 are reasonably regular climbers, whereas about 15 of the 50 men are - so the real participation rate is significantly lower. I don't know how characteristic this is. Still, on popular crags there are normally plenty of women around, albeit somewhat less than half the total number of climbers. Hopefully this imbalance is changing with time.

In reply to Misha: Well my club, the CC, has over 150 female members, admittedly only about 15% of members, but seeing as the club has been established for over 100 years and women have only been allowed to join since 1975, I think that more reflects the popularity of climbing among women now than the basic fact of the numbers alone.

In reply to Misha:

In all 'extreme' sports, there's a higher proportion of younger females. I see the same in snowboarding. You get the impression that todays young females are more adventurous than the previous generations...but actually it's not true, it's always been like that.

I'm 48, when I started climbing 25 years ago, there was a similarly high proportion of young females, but very few older ones. We thought then that the %age of women in the sport was increasing, but now we're saying exactly the same thing, there's a lot of young women, but very few my age.

Sadly it seems that women turn into their mom and men turn into their sons.

In reply to grace jones:

I've seen loads of female climbers. As Rob Naylor says above, this weekend there must have been at least 10 out of 30, some of whom are climbing at a pretty decent level (could out climb me easily!).
With my local club, we have about 30% female membership and they account for at least 50% of the newer members.
At the walls I visit, I'd say around 25-30% of the climbers are women.
The last thing I'd say is that a lot of new female climbers seem to improve their technique sooner when they begin to climb and use their feet, balance and flexibility while the newbie blokes are hauling themselves up routes with their arms and getting knackered!

In reply to Will Hunt:

there are ladies on UKB?

In reply to teflonpete:

Definately. Men are better at the start because of their strength, but they quickly reach a plataux. Women improve faster because they realise they have to climb with technique. The men don't improve until the realise that too...some never do and you see them grunting there way up the same overhang every week.

In reply to Morgan Woods:

I hope not too many :P

In reply to Tiberius:

Why? and what number is too many?

In reply to grace jones:

'Pull up to the bumper baby'

In reply to Bob kate bob:

Well, you'd have to read the connected messages to get the full meaning, but roughtly we were playing with the meanings of the word 'ladies'. Personally I prefer my women to not be ladies, generally I find them far more fun

So, I guess one is too many on that ruling.

In reply to grace jones:

Well I'd like to know where on earth you're climbing if see hardly any women climbers!

In reply to grace jones:

It's actually my girlfriend who got me into climbing, and 5 out of my usual range of about 10 climbing partners are female. Plus, two or three of those five are actually taller than a couple of the men...

Plus, remember that strength-to-weight ratio is more important than just pure strength....

In reply to grace jones:
Hey Grace - there are LOADS of us out there and just like the boys we're all abilities. I think being short can be a disadvantage, it certainly means you have to develop your own style but you just have to figure out ways to get around it. Same with body strength, you just have to get around it some how but it takes a little more ingenuity than just being able to haul yourself over the top of something.

boobs are indeed a help when you want - I once amazed some friends by hooking mine over the top of a boulder in font - it was a quality move!

To be honest with most girls I know - and I said MOST not all - if you compare them to the lads a lot of it is in their heads, girls (me included) tend to have more fear than my male climbing companions.

Important thing with climbing is there is something for everyone, figure out what you wanna do and aim for that and try not to compare yourself to other people. It doesn't matter if they're male or female you just gotta climb for yourself....ahh so wise I am (except when I am to be found standing at the bottom of a crag swearing my head off cos I can't climb something my 6ft boyfriend can! lol)

In reply to Gone:
I'm soooo glad to hear you say that.
one of my male friends who is stronger and taller than i am has been out climbing me since i started, but now thankfully, the fact that i have had to learn good technique to compensate for my strength to weight ratio is finally paying off, and i am finally feeling like brute force and ignorance will only get you so far.
good luck with the struggle and keep on reaching :-D

In reply to Ava Adore:
staffordshire grit!
most of our young women are already at home with the kids or in the dole queue so there are only a few of us who venture outdoors and do exercise.

In reply to grace jones:

I'm a female ledge shuffler with aspirations to be a pro'er climber one day ; ) But I do love it and the feeling it gives. Currently out of action with a bodged shoulder, and dying to get back to it.

Someone said not to fall into seconding subservience; it's an easy trick to fall into, and I say that with a lot of love for those with whom I've climbed. I think it takes guts to break out and go, 'no, I'll lead that,' even if it's just a Diff, but that is, to all intents and purposes, what proper climbing is - being at the sharp end.

In reply to grace jones:

errr - so whats wrong with the older women? Actually we don't stop climbing when we've had kids you know! Or are we just invisible stereotypes?

In reply to Jen80: There are still hardly any women in winter climbing. The day I will meet another woman in a winter hut I will open a bottle of champagne!

In reply to francoisecall:
last year I was ice climbing and over half the people were ladies( ist time ever though). no women's meet, just a fluke. It was only 2hrs from the road though not a long trip.

I think women my age are often putting families first, unless they are obsessed or a guide. You still see men that have families out there though. Will there be a Surge of 50's women soon like in Running when the kids leave the coop?

In reply to grace jones: Plenty of girls out there, including me! And in general, we're better balanced, more flexible, and have better technique. Don't be discouraged- find some nice delicate slabs and the boys won't be able to muscle their way through, or a chimney where your flexibility will count. Sometimes you'll be able to match holds men can't, or get two fingers into a pocket that's a mono for the blokes.

Anyone can say they are too short, too tall, too heavy, not strong enough, but we've all got to play with the hand we're dealt and learn how to work through our weaknesses and make the best of our strengths.

In reply to francoisecall:
Oh, I don't know, there are quite a few over here in Scotland. I certainly go out often and have a wee baby now, too. (And I have been in winter huts....can we arrange to meet, I'd quite a fancy a bottle of champagne

There is less then men in winter climbing, but it's slowly getting there

In reply to bare_feet:

I'm tall and inflexible and have lousy balance and minimal technique. I rely on brute force.

Yep, there's definitely lots of us out there, including in the winter, even if some of us are just pottering on low grade things. It's always nice to turn up with other women at pubs like the Clachaig - seems it's more accepted for groups of men to be away together, and mixed groups, but groups of women? Must be lesbians. Guffaw!

In reply to Tiberius:
Good point.

In reply to francoisecall:

I always thought that women were so much more sensible!

In reply to Tall Clare:

If ever you need a climbing partner Clare, it sounds like we're perfectly matched!

In reply to grace jones:

There are quite a few women climbers at my climbing club and the wall I go to. Many climb very well, and can outclimb a lot of the men. I do agree, that indoors in particular, that height can be an issue. It can be very annoying when I have had to do some difficult moves to reach a hold and then a tall bloke comes along and just reaches it. Ok maybe I should be pleased to have found a way around it, but is it really the same grade for both of us. That said, I feel on bridging and balancy climbs things are more even, and women are at no disadvantage, maybe more of an advantage due to flexibility.

In reply to Tall Clare: Agree about the lesbian thing. If you climb with a man people assume he is your boyfriend/husband, if you climb with a woman, they assume you are lesbian.

In reply to francoisecall:

And yet nobody seems to assume that two men climbing together are a gay couple. Most odd.

In reply to francoisecall:

I guess the majority of time, a man and women climbing together they are an item. Don't women think that is the case when they see a man and woman together?

Less so when there's a group with just one or two females...although tbh she's 'usually' the gf/fb of one of them.

A group of females...hmm, I'd prolly assume that maybe a couple of them were lesbians...I don't really know the percentage, is it about 10%?

In reply to Tiberius:

If you can hear a rustling noise, it's my eyebrows sliding towards my hairline.

In reply to Tall Clare:

lol...well the facts are that both gay men and women exist.

I guess I should google the percenatges, but say it's 10%, in any group of 20 people, that means u have an average of 2

It's all about the maths.

In reply to Tiberius:

True.

It's also, frustratingly, about the assumptions - that women climbing together don't know what they're doing, that they're on the pull, etc. All rather odd.

In reply to Tall Clare:

haha...I take a woman friend climbing...we're trying to find her a bf (she says a reliable fb will do too), now there's half a dozen men with their tops off, so I said they must be on the pull?...unfortunately whether they're trying to pull her, or each other is open to question.

In reply to Tiberius:

Ha ha!

In reply to Tall Clare:

I think the 'women don't know what they're doing' is a bit of a holiwood myth tbh. And as for being on the pull, in my many years I've found that men are always sort of on the pull, women are either definatelly on the pull, NEED IT NOW, or they're not interested.

In reply to Tiberius:


Ha, yep, the male climbing porn on UKB is quite good

I presume the main reason of logging on to UKB being seeing if there is new climbing porn would mean I am not a Lady?

In reply to Bob kate bob:

I managed to safely reach my current age with only a selection of broken bones and a few scars. In part I put this down to never questioning the morals of the females I meet...It has served me well for 48 years, I'm not going to change it now.

In reply to Bob kate bob:
Think I'll check out this male climbing porn RIGHT NOW.

Can't think how its slipped through my sights up till now?

I blame you lot for not alerting me earlier - there've been lots of opportunities and you just kept it to yourself tsk tsk, mumble

In reply to Tall Clare:

On the pull - is that a euphemism for top-roping?

So if you have a group of 3 women and 1 man, (like a trip I went on this summer) that is obviously 1 heterosexual couple (correct, but he's the belay bunny) and a pair of lesbians (no, just two friends who have left their boyfriends at home for the weekend...)

In reply to fimm:

If we’re assuming 10% gay. Then I’d have said:

3 women, so chance of one being lesbian is 3 x .1 = .3

Chance of two of them being lesbian is .3 x .3 = 0.09

(difficult to work out the chance of the two lesbians being a couple, so we'll just stick with 0.09 for now).

Only one man, so chance of him being gay is .1

There, all done...of course you could use a different percentage to 10%...and the concept of bi-sexual (practicing and curious) complicates the issue, but at least we have a start point

In reply to Tiberius:

Wow. Loving the mathematical approach!

In reply to Tiberius: Generally if I'm climbing with a man, I'm climbing with my brother, or a bloke from work, or a mate with a non climbing girlfriend/wife, or some random Scout Leader. I'm climbing because I want to not because some bloke dragged me along. Its exceedingly annoying when people assume that women must be along with their men and not in their own right. A bit like those that used to assume I'd borrowed my (ex)husbands car. Yes, I have an estate, and its mine thanks, I bought it all by myself. I can even park it, forwards or backwards, ooooh isn't it a bit big though, and put the roofrack on my own. Aren't I clever, no don't pat me on the head.

In reply to marsbar:

oh no, I thought i was arguing against the stereotypes mentioned earlier, now I'm getting blamed for promoting them...I was just doing the maths, honest

I think as people have pointed out, there's a hundred reason's why women and men climb, so making any assumptions is going to be pretty silly.

Quite often atm, I'm climbing with a female. She's not my gf, but she is looking for one, so generally we're checking out the talent. Stereotypes, pah, who needs them.

In reply to all:

Damn, and I thought climbing was a great way of getting AWAY from the stereotypes...you know, the ones where I can't possibly be an engineer, I must be the tea girl, and of course there's no way I could possibly be flying that aeroplane, it must be the man I'm with who is the pilot...oh and that sportsbike in the garage must of course belong to my husband...

Why the hell do people take all this so seriously? I've lost count of the number of times I've surprised people by being the one in the role 'assumed' to be masculine, and I genuinely find some of the reactions hilarious. None of it matters at the end of the day - so enjoy the novelty of the cringe factor you may have just caused the guy/girl with the falsly sterotypical notional view of the situation, I know I do (but then, I have a sense of humour!)

FWIW Tiberius, your mathematical approach to probable relationships made me chuckle - brilliant mate.

Anyway, back on the original subject - plenty of female climbers out there and just as in all walks of society there are a whole host of different types of relationships between people.

Words of encouragement? Just keep climbing if you enjoy it, there's absolutely no reason to feel isolated or inferior to anyone else (whether you're male or female).

Oh and another top tip - if you ever get into winter climbing, if you carry chocolate or biscuits that freeze solid - slip them into your bra for a few minutes and they soon thaw enough to eat (although don't do this if you're liable to get a bra full of spindrift too!)

In reply to groovy_nut:

hehe...I love eating chocolate like that




...oops, I'm not sure we're talking about quite the same thing

In reply to Tiberius:

Not what I originally meant...but actually

In reply to marsbar:

Do people assume that?
One of my regular climbing partners is a woman 16 years younger than me, I like climbing with her because she's a good climber, a steady belay and good company.
She's focused on what she wants to do and climbs because of it, certainly no "belay bunny".
Anyone who sees us together at the crag must surely realise that we are climbing partners of similar ability and standing unless they think she's my daughter or something!
Maybe it's because I'm a member of a club who's members are both sexes and of mixed ability that I don't think anything of seeing mixed pairs other than they are climbing partners. I would like to think this is the same for many people.

So you 2 are the ones we see cavorting around in the long bracken?



Unfortunately we can't count my wife in as one. She failed miserably on Stump Crack (2a) Shipley Glen years ago and she has absolutely no desire to try any more (my loss)

In reply to A Chorlton Climber:

Only if hell's frozen over some time recently!

In reply to grace jones:

Loads of women climbing out there, maybe you're just not going to the right crags. Unlike you I don't really see it as a male-dominated sport (certainly not compared to grappling/BJJ), it's a sport that has more men than women participating but there's no inherent gender bias and on the whole women can largely compete on a level playing field, certainly if you're climbing at less than cutting edge kind of grades. Your strengths and weaknesses are far more likely to be defined by your body type than your gender anyway. Most women who underperform seem to do so because of a lack of confidence or lack of effort, not because their tits won't let them get close to the wall!

The best advice I can offer is to not fall into a stereotypical gender role. Insist on leading your fair share, don't rely on a partner to ensure you have a good day. Oh, and just because something's hard that doesn't mean you can't do it.

In reply to climbingpixie:

Cracking post - one of the best I've read in a while.

In reply to climbingpixie:
here here!

I only climb with boys (none of my female friends climb which isn't anything to do with climbing being male dominated, just they have different interests.) and I find myself slightly weaker than my wall partner but that just makes it a competiton for me to try and climb better than him!
When I go outdoors I climb with Franco who climbs just slightly better than me and I suppose there's clear difference in ability there... but you just make the best of learning from a stronger climber and do your best
I don't find myself lacking in confidence because I'm climbing with boys and I don't see an equal amount of boys and girls at the wall too, but it doesn't bother me at all really. We're all human If you love the sport and like a challenge it shouldn't really matter.

And on the other hand, if we did have walls just for females with extra holds, then there would be a clear gender difference and I think there would be some very unhappy ladies!

In reply to climbingpixie:

Tell it like it is Pixie!

In reply to Rebecca Earnshaw: and climb with somebody better but the same height or shorter than you! that way if they can do it, you cant use lack of height as an excuse! (speaking as someone who uses it at every opportunity ;-D)