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Film of Ron soloing Vector?

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 AlanLittle 24 Jun 2022

Does anybody know where I might be able to find the film of Ron Fawcett soloing Vector? There's a snippet of it at the start of the Rock Athlete Lord of of the Flies episode on youtube, but I recall (maybe wrongly?) having seen more of it at some point.

 pec 24 Jun 2022
In reply to AlanLittle:

There's a bit longer footage of it in episode 1 of Rock Athlete here

youtube.com/watch?v=tdRfqD125-g&

It starts at about 25mins in though its all in slow motion.

 nikoid 24 Jun 2022
In reply to pec:

I always thought that was Ron on Tensor, it doesn't look like Vector. I haven't been to Tremadog for years though!

In reply to pec:

Is it definitely slow motion? Or does he have a deliberate and flowing climbing style?

 jon 24 Jun 2022
In reply to nikoid:

You're right, it's not Vector.

In reply to jon:

Yes, definitely not Vector. But the most startling thing about this Rock Athlete video clip is just how incoherent is the commentary. When the commentator is talking about Ron Fawcett between 25:24 and 26:00, he's virtually incomprehensible. I think a transcript would be deeply embarrassing. How did they ever go ahead with recording this virtual nonsense?

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 pec 24 Jun 2022
In reply to nikoid:

> I always thought that was Ron on Tensor, it doesn't look like Vector. I haven't been to Tremadog for years though!


Yes you may well be right, I can't remember what either of them looks like!

On further reflection I think the footage of Ron soloing Vector was part of a series by Leo Dickinson called Pushing the Limits. He solos the route and meets up with Eric Jones at the top.

It might be the Extreme Rock programme here but I can't find it on You Tube.

https://www.mntnfilm.com/en/filmography/leo-dickinson/page:2

I've got an old VHS recording of it in a box somewhere.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth

> But the most startling thing about this Rock Athlete video clip is just how incoherent is the commentary. When the commentator is talking about Ron Fawcett between 25:24 and 26:00, he's virtually incomprehensible.

It makes complete sense to me

Post edited at 21:07
In reply to pec:

> It makes complete sense to me

Does this really make sense to you? As a piece of English it's just so embarrassingly ill-expressed/incoherent:

'If climbing is going to stay in Britain in the sense that new generations to come can learn about themselves, the solo climbing shown here, which is one summit of the sport, will show us, as well as huge physical skills, the sort of nerve that anyone wanted to do it at all. Climbing is, after all, climbing, and wouldn’t be so without risk, without controlled fear, and as the sport keeps drawing us back to remember, without the very most that a man can give.'

Post edited at 21:37
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 Michael Gordon 24 Jun 2022
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

That does look a lot like verbal diarrhea.

1
In reply to Michael Gordon:

That's my problem with it. I'd be most grateful if someone could translate it into ordinary, simple English, so that we can at least begin to understand what he's getting at.

6
 Jon Stewart 24 Jun 2022
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> 'If climbing is going to stay in Britain in the sense that new generations to come can learn about themselves, the solo climbing shown here, which is one summit of the sport, will show us, as well as huge physical skills, the sort of nerve that anyone wanted to do it at all. Climbing is, after all, climbing, and wouldn’t be so without risk, without controlled fear, and as the sport keeps drawing us back to remember, without the very most that a man can give.'

You've got a point. That is absolute bollocks.

1
 Andy Hardy 24 Jun 2022
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Roughly translates as 'Bugger me, I wouldn't do that for a big clock'

 bouldery bits 24 Jun 2022
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Does this really make sense to you? As a piece of English it's just so embarrassingly ill-expressed/incoherent:

> 'If climbing is going to stay in Britain in the sense that new generations to come can learn about themselves, the solo climbing shown here, which is one summit of the sport, will show us, as well as huge physical skills, the sort of nerve that anyone wanted to do it at all. Climbing is, after all, climbing, and wouldn’t be so without risk, without controlled fear, and as the sport keeps drawing us back to remember, without the very most that a man can give.'

Bot generated.

 pec 24 Jun 2022
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Does this really make sense to you? As a piece of English it's just so embarrassingly ill-expressed/incoherent:

> 'If climbing is going to stay in Britain in the sense that new generations to come can learn about themselves, the solo climbing shown here, which is one summit of the sport, will show us, as well as huge physical skills, the sort of nerve that anyone wanted to do it at all. Climbing is, after all, climbing, and wouldn’t be so without risk, without controlled fear, and as the sport keeps drawing us back to remember, without the very most that a man can give.'


If you type something out in the abstract, as you have done above (and miss a bit out) it might look a bit odd, but in the context of the whole film where it belongs then yes, it makes sense to me.

You're supposed to be the man of words, watch the whole film (it's very good) and see if that helps.

5
In reply to pec:

Most writers aspire to communicate as much as possible through the few words they have. This somehow manages to use as many words as possible to communicate absolutely nothing.

2
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> 'If climbing is going to stay in Britain...

I suppose, given the state of the country under Boris and his entourage, you could hardly blame climbing now if it packed up its stuff and moved somewhere friendlier.

9
 Danm79 25 Jun 2022
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Agreed Gordon.

If you’d like to infuriate yourself further, just cast an eye over this recent piece of professional  journalism;

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/ryanair-flight-delayed-six-hours-24075370?fbclid=IwAR3gQe8wj5YlNI-rygTXOuFa2UKwesBSPc21_jFG6UQlpWA2rvKGeCMUNz8

 jon 25 Jun 2022
In reply to pec:

> He solos the route and meets up with Eric Jones at the top.

Ah yes, I remember that. Ron pops up and Eric just happens to be sitting right there. Amazing coincidence!

 nikoid 25 Jun 2022
In reply to pec:

> On further reflection I think the footage of Ron soloing Vector was part of a series by Leo Dickinson called Pushing the Limits. He solos the route and meets up with Eric Jones at the top.

Yes that bit was quite funny, Ron has to feign surprise at meeting Eric at the top, who then invites him to the cafe for a brew!

 jon_gill1 25 Jun 2022
In reply to AlanLittle:

Yes I think you might be right about the Leo Dickinson series! I’ve been after the footage of Ron climbing Darius for year but to no avail!

In reply to AlanLittle:

I seem to recall there is also a film of Jimmy Jewell soloing it produced by Alun Hughes.

 john arran 25 Jun 2022
In reply to Danm79:

> Agreed Gordon.

> If you’d like to infuriate yourself further, just cast an eye over this recent piece of professional  journalism;

I've seen a lot worse. Had to chuckle at the Ryanair comment on the flight delay, which was due to a lack of operable toilet: "The low cost airline also apologised for any inconvenience."

 Danm79 25 Jun 2022
In reply to john arran:

> I've seen a lot worse. Had to chuckle at the Ryanair comment on the flight delay, which was due to a lack of operable toilet: "The low cost airline also apologised for any inconvenience."

That’s inadvertently a good one!

It was the writer’s development of the story in that Birmingham Mail link I found amusing... The headline, sub header, picture caption, first sentence of the article and second sentence of the article all say the same thing.

 65 25 Jun 2022
In reply to pec:

> You're supposed to be the man of words, watch the whole film (it's very good) and see if that helps.

Gordon is a man of sentences. The commentary is by a man of words. A poorly arranged assemblage but words nevertheless. 

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> I'd be most grateful if someone could translate it into ordinary, simple English

You're an editor, aren't you? Edit out the subclauses of the first sentence.

"'If climbing is going to stay in Britain [...], the solo climbing shown here, [...] will show us [...] the sort of nerve that anyone wanted, to do it at all."

Verbal commentary is often somewhat rambling, with lots of subclauses inserted into the basic narrative.

Post edited at 13:24
1
In reply to captain paranoia:

True enough. And extracting the words, text form, stripping away all intonation and the accompanying video will make it lose it's subtlety, humour and meaning.

 Jon Stewart 25 Jun 2022
In reply to captain paranoia:

> "'If climbing is going to stay in Britain [...], the solo climbing shown here, [...] will show us [...] the sort of nerve that anyone wanted, to do it at all."

Still doesn't make sense! 

1
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I remember our family watching the Sid Perou and Leo Dickinson stuff on a Friday night when I were a lad. We didn't notice the commentary TBH…

 Dave Todd 25 Jun 2022
In reply to bouldery bits:

> Bot generated.

Agree, sounds like he's talking out of his bot.

 magma 25 Jun 2022
In reply to Jon Stewart:

maybe it all makes more sense at 1.5x speed or maybe the narrator was on the same gear as the musical score guys;?

 pec 25 Jun 2022
In reply to captain paranoia:

> You're an editor, aren't you? Edit out the subclauses of the first sentence.

Thanks for saving me the bother of having to explain it, frankly, I couldn't be arsed. Why he should fixate on 30 seconds of commentary with his usual 'the end of the world is nigh' demeanor instead of just enjoying one of the best climbing documentaries ever made is beyond me. Life's too short etc.

1
 JimR 26 Jun 2022
In reply to pec:

in its place and time the verbal commentary was just back ground noise, they were brilliant to me nearly 50 years ago

 seankenny 26 Jun 2022
In reply to JimR:

The sequence at the end of the Verdon film holds up pretty well. The voice over stops and we are just treated to a half naked, moustachioed rock athlete powering up with an early 80s synth soundtrack. It’s a great bit of film. 

 pec 26 Jun 2022
In reply to JimR:

> in its place and time the verbal commentary was just back ground noise, they were brilliant to me nearly 50 years ago


Yes, as a teenager just getting into climbing the Rock Athlete films were an inspiration to me. They are obviously 'of their time' but still stand up well today and are a great record of where climbing was at just before sport climbing burst onto the scene in the mid 80s.

In reply to pec:

I got into the sport watching Tom Proctor climbing green death at Millstone, think it was a tv program called Rock Sport.

In reply to robert-hutton:

> I got into the sport watching Tom Proctor climbing green death at Millstone, think it was a tv program called Rock Sport.

It was shown on a Saturday morning I think. Tom was seconded by Roger Baxter Jones if my memory is correct.  1978 at a guess?

 Phil Kelly 26 Jun 2022
In reply to Dewi Williams:

> It was shown on a Saturday morning I think. Tom was seconded by Roger Baxter Jones if my memory is correct.  1978 at a guess?

It was 1973, introduced by John Earle and also featuring Jack Street, Geoff Birtles and Dennis Grey.

In reply to Phil Kelly:

> It was 1973, introduced by John Earle and also featuring Jack Street, Geoff Birtles and Dennis Grey.

Ah yes, John Earle. Ron James was also on doing a route at Ilkley. Don't remember it being as early as 73, maybe I saw a repeat?

 jon 27 Jun 2022
In reply to Dewi Williams:

I remember these programmes but they are all mixed together in my memory. Was Ron James pegging something, or was that someone else or a different programme?

In reply to jon:

> I remember these programmes but they are all mixed together in my memory. Was Ron James pegging something, or was that someone else or a different programme?

I think that was at some quarry on Dartmoor?

I've just looked up Foggintor and there is a route called Rockface, now HVS 5b, so presumably that was it.

 jon 27 Jun 2022
In reply to Dave Garnett:

Hmmm, first ascent Pat Littlejohn.

I seem to remember another pegging incident on those programmes where the presenter casually says 'oh, there's someone climbing now' and the camera pans around to a climber pegging a steep crack - maybe London Wall???

In reply to jon:

> I remember these programmes but they are all mixed together in my memory. Was Ron James pegging something, or was that someone else or a different programme?

Ron James climbed a route in the quarry at Ilkley, S or VS, grade, definitely no pegging.

In reply to jon:

> Hmmm, first ascent Pat Littlejohn.

FFA anyway.  I’ve definitely seen a photo somewhere.  Iain Peters will know.

 Phil Kelly 27 Jun 2022
In reply to Dewi Williams:

> Ah yes, John Earle. Ron James was also on doing a route at Ilkley. Don't remember it being as early as 73, maybe I saw a repeat?

That must've been a different episode; Ron James definitely isn't on the one I'm thinking of.

 Phil Kelly 27 Jun 2022
In reply to nikoid:

> I always thought that was Ron on Tensor, it doesn't look like Vector. I haven't been to Tremadog for years though!

Me too.


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