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I love corners and have an unfortunate compulsion to wedge myself into offwidths.
So of course Goliath Groove's is on my dream list, and various climbing partners have pointed at it and said grimly, "That's probably the sort of thing you'd enjoy".
I'm currently leading VS and only just starting to dip my toes into HVS (and know that doesn't necessarily mean a lot when it comes to routes requiring old-school techniques).
Anyone want to recommend good routes for building my offwidth/wide crack skills? Or any "entry exams" -- i.e. "if you've done this route, you should be ready for Goliath's"?
I know some people will advise just jumping on it, but it looks like such a great route; I'd like to feel I had a shot at doing it justice. And I wouldn't say no to recommendations for similar routes anyway.
So of course Goliath Groove's is on my dream list, and various climbing partners have pointed at it and said grimly, "That's probably the sort of thing you'd enjoy".
I'm currently leading VS and only just starting to dip my toes into HVS (and know that doesn't necessarily mean a lot when it comes to routes requiring old-school techniques).
Anyone want to recommend good routes for building my offwidth/wide crack skills? Or any "entry exams" -- i.e. "if you've done this route, you should be ready for Goliath's"?
I know some people will advise just jumping on it, but it looks like such a great route; I'd like to feel I had a shot at doing it justice. And I wouldn't say no to recommendations for similar routes anyway.
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In reply to slab_happy:
Without spoiling, GG is deceptive. And I thought tough for hvs. What it felt like before large cams and mats at the bottom........ just to tease a little...
still an enjoyable battle, and really quite protectable.
Unfortunately all the routes I can think of which may help, are all hvs or harder themselves. But then I dont have a huge recent grit VS and S catalogue in my head to quote from.
Enjoy.
Without spoiling, GG is deceptive. And I thought tough for hvs. What it felt like before large cams and mats at the bottom........ just to tease a little...
still an enjoyable battle, and really quite protectable.
Unfortunately all the routes I can think of which may help, are all hvs or harder themselves. But then I dont have a huge recent grit VS and S catalogue in my head to quote from.
Enjoy.
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In reply to slab_happy:
I'd warm up by doing laps on the Goliath at Burbage South first. That should help.
I'd warm up by doing laps on the Goliath at Burbage South first. That should help.
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In reply to slab_happy:
(and know that doesn't necessarily mean a lot when it comes to routes requiring old-school techniques).
Not sure what you mean by 'old school techniques'? I've amassed lots of technique over the years, but none that I would call 'old school'
GG used to be VS4c years ago. Try Fern Crack VS5a further to the left. It's never been HVS 5a, but was VS4c.
Post edited at 23:18
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In reply to slab_happy:
I onsighted it last year, one of the rather small selection of HVSs I have managed on natural grit. I didn't actually think it was so tough, compared to Little or Right Unconquerable, its really OK. Wear jeans or similar and udge up the wide bit. There is plenty of gear the whole way so its not too scary either.
If you have the gear placing skill and experience, just get on it! The worst that happens is you flop onto a runner and have to try again later. I've decided life is too short not to try well protected routes that are hard for me.
I onsighted it last year, one of the rather small selection of HVSs I have managed on natural grit. I didn't actually think it was so tough, compared to Little or Right Unconquerable, its really OK. Wear jeans or similar and udge up the wide bit. There is plenty of gear the whole way so its not too scary either.
If you have the gear placing skill and experience, just get on it! The worst that happens is you flop onto a runner and have to try again later. I've decided life is too short not to try well protected routes that are hard for me.
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In reply to slab_happy:
VS 4c in the old Paul Nunn book of lies, that one. Best advice? Get good on bridging on non-existent holds. After that, it gets easier.
Good route and worth doing, though mostly in retrospect.
T.
VS 4c in the old Paul Nunn book of lies, that one. Best advice? Get good on bridging on non-existent holds. After that, it gets easier.
Good route and worth doing, though mostly in retrospect.
T.
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In reply to slab_happy:
I only just led it cleanly the other day and I've onsighted many grades harder.
I did use wide techniques with my legs, but for hands I used thin jams
I only just led it cleanly the other day and I've onsighted many grades harder.
I did use wide techniques with my legs, but for hands I used thin jams
In reply to slab_happy:
The first time I tried GG I tried to thrutch up the bottom section, and got spat out. A year later I bridged it and the result was much better - the biggest challenge was leaning in to place a nut before the end of the initial difficulties. A big cam low down was reassuring, but I guess a mat would have done the same job.
Don't know if there's any point in specific training for a crux that can be done in various ways, maybe just get on it and see what happens? The upper section is pleasant VS 4c.
The first time I tried GG I tried to thrutch up the bottom section, and got spat out. A year later I bridged it and the result was much better - the biggest challenge was leaning in to place a nut before the end of the initial difficulties. A big cam low down was reassuring, but I guess a mat would have done the same job.
Don't know if there's any point in specific training for a crux that can be done in various ways, maybe just get on it and see what happens? The upper section is pleasant VS 4c.
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In reply to slab_happy:
If you choose to bridge it, it's easy to practice that at the indoor lead or bouldering wall.
If you choose to bridge it, it's easy to practice that at the indoor lead or bouldering wall.
In reply to Jamie B:
The op likes off widths, in which case it's not only easier to udge but safer too as you can place gear more easily.
The op likes off widths, in which case it's not only easier to udge but safer too as you can place gear more easily.
In reply to slab_happy:
If you are reasonably fit and strong the main thing you need is a positive attitude. Get on, shove in some high gear and fight your way up it. Don't forget to breathe! Big rest at the top of the groove so so only need to psych up for that bit
If you are reasonably fit and strong the main thing you need is a positive attitude. Get on, shove in some high gear and fight your way up it. Don't forget to breathe! Big rest at the top of the groove so so only need to psych up for that bit
In reply to slab_happy:
I found gg quite hard for hvs, so perhaps a bunch of vs offwidths and some easier hvs ones.
At vs
Roaches kestrel crack, the bulger
Rivelin Scarlets and Jonathan's chimney
Can't think of any with knee bars which would be handy.
I found gg quite hard for hvs, so perhaps a bunch of vs offwidths and some easier hvs ones.
At vs
Roaches kestrel crack, the bulger
Rivelin Scarlets and Jonathan's chimney
Can't think of any with knee bars which would be handy.
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In reply to brianjcooper:
In this case, all the things you can't learn at an indoor climbing wall. *g* Notably, jamming and offwidth techniques. Term used with respect and approbation:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=old%20school
Fern Crack looks amazing, thanks.
> Not sure what you mean by 'old school techniques'? I've amassed lots of technique over the years, but none that I would call 'old school'
In this case, all the things you can't learn at an indoor climbing wall. *g* Notably, jamming and offwidth techniques. Term used with respect and approbation:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=old%20school
Fern Crack looks amazing, thanks.
In reply to planetmarshall:
I love bridging too, but (precisely because it's something you can do indoors) I feel my bridging skills have had a lot more practice. I'm a lot less sure whether my udging skills are up to the mark!
I love bridging too, but (precisely because it's something you can do indoors) I feel my bridging skills have had a lot more practice. I'm a lot less sure whether my udging skills are up to the mark!
In reply to slab_happy:
I'd say there's some classic eastern grit HVS'S
Goliath's Groove
Great North Road
Peapod
Valkyrie Pinnacle
Right Unconquerable
And of those, GG is possibly the easiest (or tied with Valkyrie). They can all be safely protected, and are all pretty hard work.
They're all pretty much a "step up" from any VS you'll find, so I couldn't give you any routes below the grade to say "do this and you'll be ready".
I personally only onsighted one off the list, but I did hit them all fairly early on. Maybe if you want to be sure of a clean ascent, save it till you're steady at HVS?
But if I really was pushed to suggest some classic hard eastern grit routes for VS I'd list:
Excalibre at Lawrencefield
The File at Higgar
Fern Crack and Count's Crack at Plantation
Agony Crack and Step Ladder Crack at Popular
The Mall at Millstone
But you'd probably be better prepared climbing slightly less classic HVS'S that are hard but safe...
Divine Providence (or whatever that slanting crack in Black Hawk area's called) and Rugosity Crack at Popular
Any of the HVS's at Millstone
Terazza Crack and Surgeons Saunter at High Neb
But in all honesty, none of them are reeally like GG. I slipped off back and footing the start of GG on my onside attempt, but cruised the upper half, I've since gone back and jammed it cleanly, but that first "dogged" ascent is the one I cherish more.
Good luck!
I'd say there's some classic eastern grit HVS'S
Goliath's Groove
Great North Road
Peapod
Valkyrie Pinnacle
Right Unconquerable
And of those, GG is possibly the easiest (or tied with Valkyrie). They can all be safely protected, and are all pretty hard work.
They're all pretty much a "step up" from any VS you'll find, so I couldn't give you any routes below the grade to say "do this and you'll be ready".
I personally only onsighted one off the list, but I did hit them all fairly early on. Maybe if you want to be sure of a clean ascent, save it till you're steady at HVS?
But if I really was pushed to suggest some classic hard eastern grit routes for VS I'd list:
Excalibre at Lawrencefield
The File at Higgar
Fern Crack and Count's Crack at Plantation
Agony Crack and Step Ladder Crack at Popular
The Mall at Millstone
But you'd probably be better prepared climbing slightly less classic HVS'S that are hard but safe...
Divine Providence (or whatever that slanting crack in Black Hawk area's called) and Rugosity Crack at Popular
Any of the HVS's at Millstone
Terazza Crack and Surgeons Saunter at High Neb
But in all honesty, none of them are reeally like GG. I slipped off back and footing the start of GG on my onside attempt, but cruised the upper half, I've since gone back and jammed it cleanly, but that first "dogged" ascent is the one I cherish more.
Good luck!
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In reply to slab_happy:
Don't worry; it can't be that hard, I once saw somebody bridge up it - facing out!!!!!
Don't worry; it can't be that hard, I once saw somebody bridge up it - facing out!!!!!
In reply to dr_botnik:
I'd agree (except for some reason I've never done GNR). I think GG was the first of these I led (probably because it was VS) and I have to say I thought it was pretty straightforward. I've done it several times since and it really isn't a big deal (although, to be fair I haven't done it for a few years and apparently the bottom has got a bit polished). I'll put it on my Stanage list to look at again but I think its reputation is getting inflated - assuming you are competent at jamming.
But then maybe my idea of HVS has been permanently warped by Hen Cloud and Ramshaw Rocks!
> I'd say there's some classic eastern grit HVS'S
> Goliath's Groove
> Great North Road
> Peapod
> Valkyrie Pinnacle
> Right Unconquerable
> Great North Road
> Peapod
> Valkyrie Pinnacle
> Right Unconquerable
> And of those, GG is possibly the easiest (or tied with Valkyrie). They can all be safely protected, and are all pretty hard work.
I'd agree (except for some reason I've never done GNR). I think GG was the first of these I led (probably because it was VS) and I have to say I thought it was pretty straightforward. I've done it several times since and it really isn't a big deal (although, to be fair I haven't done it for a few years and apparently the bottom has got a bit polished). I'll put it on my Stanage list to look at again but I think its reputation is getting inflated - assuming you are competent at jamming.
But then maybe my idea of HVS has been permanently warped by Hen Cloud and Ramshaw Rocks!
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In reply to slab_happy:
Try Great Harry at Lawrencefield. Should do the trick! You could also add in Excalibur as a great excursion as well, while you are there.
Try Great Harry at Lawrencefield. Should do the trick! You could also add in Excalibur as a great excursion as well, while you are there.
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In reply to slab_happy:
Udging is less a skill and more a state of mind !
> I'm a lot less sure whether my udging skills are up to the mark!
Udging is less a skill and more a state of mind !
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In reply to slab_happy:
Its more a short chimney udge to good jamming crack with a nice layback above. Ill think on routes but none spring to mind straight away. You can also back and foot the outside if you are a star at this technique and bridging is a harder bolder alternative for the thrutch allergic.
Its more a short chimney udge to good jamming crack with a nice layback above. Ill think on routes but none spring to mind straight away. You can also back and foot the outside if you are a star at this technique and bridging is a harder bolder alternative for the thrutch allergic.
In reply to slab_happy:
For specific off width skills, try:
Cannonball Crack (S 3c)
Hercules (E1 5a)
Or the upper crack of The Mincer
For specific off width skills, try:
Cannonball Crack (S 3c)
Hercules (E1 5a)
Or the upper crack of The Mincer
In reply to slab_happy:
Well then, go for bridging on GG. If you warm-up on the slab problems of "The Lone Boulder". When you come to bridge up GG, it's non-existent footholds will seem massive.
> "I love bridging too, but (precisely because it's something you can do indoors) I feel my bridging skills have had a lot more practice."
Well then, go for bridging on GG. If you warm-up on the slab problems of "The Lone Boulder". When you come to bridge up GG, it's non-existent footholds will seem massive.
In reply to johncook:
Great Harry is totally pleasant hand crack with ledges to rest on - I've only seen people who can't jam struggle on it. Excalibur on the other hand... totally nails, and I've seen some injuries from whippers taken after a few metres of laybacking.
> Try Great Harry at Lawrencefield. Should do the trick! You could also add in Excalibur as a great excursion as well, while you are there.
Great Harry is totally pleasant hand crack with ledges to rest on - I've only seen people who can't jam struggle on it. Excalibur on the other hand... totally nails, and I've seen some injuries from whippers taken after a few metres of laybacking.
In reply to Offwidth:
I found the initial thrutch the easiest part of the climb it was placing gear around where the jams run out and the layback starts and actually doing the layback I found hard - partly as by that time I was getting a full body pump The jamming gets a bit flared and insecure just around there also I seem to remember.
I've attempted it once and done it once and both times I found the gear a bit awkward in the middle the crack opens out as it goes back and can be hard to get a good cam and very easy to loose one in there. Above I got some reasonable sideways nuts but they weren't over inspiring. I do remember some good small cams at the layback though.
I found the initial thrutch the easiest part of the climb it was placing gear around where the jams run out and the layback starts and actually doing the layback I found hard - partly as by that time I was getting a full body pump The jamming gets a bit flared and insecure just around there also I seem to remember.
I've attempted it once and done it once and both times I found the gear a bit awkward in the middle the crack opens out as it goes back and can be hard to get a good cam and very easy to loose one in there. Above I got some reasonable sideways nuts but they weren't over inspiring. I do remember some good small cams at the layback though.
Post edited at 10:23
In reply to slab_happy:
I would agree with others that great north road HVS is a good call. great gear, quite pumpy and not as hard as it looks - quite low in the grade I think. The smearing and laybacking should help you on GG.
Also Embankment 2 would be good at VS - its high in the grade and it has both awkward crack climbing and laybacking.
I would agree with others that great north road HVS is a good call. great gear, quite pumpy and not as hard as it looks - quite low in the grade I think. The smearing and laybacking should help you on GG.
Also Embankment 2 would be good at VS - its high in the grade and it has both awkward crack climbing and laybacking.
Post edited at 10:17
In reply to slab_happy:
Given ^ this you might find (as I did) that udging, thrutching and thrashing your way up the start is actually slightly easier than the short layback section above. The old-timers clearly felt this way, hence Doncaster's is the earlier route (doing the start of GG, then sneaking off to the right from the niche).
Offwidth in a corner? Fat Man's Misery (S 3c), Burbage South is the first thing springs to my mind.
There's a nice little boulder problem not far from GG though, hang on.. <rummages through book>
Huffer Puffer (f3). The definitive guide says "The strenuous offwidth layback" - don't layback it though obviously, get stuck in!
> I love corners and have an unfortunate compulsion to wedge myself into offwidths.
Given ^ this you might find (as I did) that udging, thrutching and thrashing your way up the start is actually slightly easier than the short layback section above. The old-timers clearly felt this way, hence Doncaster's is the earlier route (doing the start of GG, then sneaking off to the right from the niche).
> Anyone want to recommend good routes for building my offwidth/wide crack skills?
Offwidth in a corner? Fat Man's Misery (S 3c), Burbage South is the first thing springs to my mind.
There's a nice little boulder problem not far from GG though, hang on.. <rummages through book>
Huffer Puffer (f3). The definitive guide says "The strenuous offwidth layback" - don't layback it though obviously, get stuck in!
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In reply to Offwidth:
these two climbs would help IMO
Hawk's Nest Crack (VS 4c)
Embankment 2 (VS 4c)
these two climbs would help IMO
Hawk's Nest Crack (VS 4c)
Embankment 2 (VS 4c)
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
I did think about Hawks Nest but the awkward bit is about the same difficulty. Embankment 2 is an interesting thought.. different angle but good prep.
I did think about Hawks Nest but the awkward bit is about the same difficulty. Embankment 2 is an interesting thought.. different angle but good prep.
In reply to deepsoup:
Yet GG is more of a closing Pod in a corner to jams. You dont need much offwidth technique.
Yet GG is more of a closing Pod in a corner to jams. You dont need much offwidth technique.
In reply to Offwidth:
Yeah but with hawks nest the awkward bit doesn't lead to a full body pump and the rest of the climb is just great VS climbing (especially if you like bomber jams). Also its easier to sort out the gear on Hawks nest.
Yeah but with hawks nest the awkward bit doesn't lead to a full body pump and the rest of the climb is just great VS climbing (especially if you like bomber jams). Also its easier to sort out the gear on Hawks nest.
Post edited at 10:46
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In reply to slab_happy:
GG was my first grit HVS onsight a couple of years ago - I'd been climbing for a couple of years and was starting to rack up VS's on lead.
I think the main thing with the route is you've really gotta want it ! I mean really,really gotta want it ! Every time you udge up you feel like you're gonna be off, but just keep on and don't give up. It's just a bastard struggle (for most mortals) and brute force and pig headedness will go a long way - although having said that I saw it cruised a month or so ago.
So my advice - just get a big cam in at the bottom and go for it - the gear is good and it's safe.
I can remember topping out and just laying on the ground totally spent whilst a somewhat bemused walker asked me if I was ok.
Once you've done it go immediately to the pub and sit and have a few pints and enjoy the smug afterglow
And most of all enjoy ! Don't save it - there are plenty more battles out there. Enjoy the process - and good luck !
GG was my first grit HVS onsight a couple of years ago - I'd been climbing for a couple of years and was starting to rack up VS's on lead.
I think the main thing with the route is you've really gotta want it ! I mean really,really gotta want it ! Every time you udge up you feel like you're gonna be off, but just keep on and don't give up. It's just a bastard struggle (for most mortals) and brute force and pig headedness will go a long way - although having said that I saw it cruised a month or so ago.
So my advice - just get a big cam in at the bottom and go for it - the gear is good and it's safe.
I can remember topping out and just laying on the ground totally spent whilst a somewhat bemused walker asked me if I was ok.
Once you've done it go immediately to the pub and sit and have a few pints and enjoy the smug afterglow
And most of all enjoy ! Don't save it - there are plenty more battles out there. Enjoy the process - and good luck !
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In reply to slab_happy:
Be sure to start at 'ground level' for Fern Crack to get the full tick.
Just thought of another one.
Count's Crack Vs4c *** - See the picture on page 94 of the Stanage guide.
Have fun
Be sure to start at 'ground level' for Fern Crack to get the full tick.
Just thought of another one.
Count's Crack Vs4c *** - See the picture on page 94 of the Stanage guide.
Have fun
Post edited at 11:28
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In reply to Ciderslider:
I'd agree with that. Its more a state of mind than specific physical training. Udging into jamming (which is the method of choice for most of us) is just about keep fighting upwards. And you can rest before the layback at the top - thats almost a seperate pitch.
> I think the main thing with the route is you've really gotta want it !
I'd agree with that. Its more a state of mind than specific physical training. Udging into jamming (which is the method of choice for most of us) is just about keep fighting upwards. And you can rest before the layback at the top - thats almost a seperate pitch.
In reply to GrahamD:
I think most layback at the top of the initial groove too once the jams get really flared
I think most layback at the top of the initial groove too once the jams get really flared
In reply to GrahamD:
I'm just pointing out good off widths I have actually taken slab_happy out to the roaches and we had a bit of discussion about the mincer after doing its easier sister rhodron together, so I think it was pretty clear I was compiling a list for completeness, and not suggesting it as a warm up :-/
Edit: The Mincer was a relatively early HVS lead for me. I only wanted to try it because I knew I'd cope with the upper wide crack (if I could get to it!). Similar with Tody's Wall, I only pushed on through that move as I knew when I got to the upper crack I'd enjoy it. Weird, but I can't think where I learnt this faith in jams from.
I'm just pointing out good off widths I have actually taken slab_happy out to the roaches and we had a bit of discussion about the mincer after doing its easier sister rhodron together, so I think it was pretty clear I was compiling a list for completeness, and not suggesting it as a warm up :-/
Edit: The Mincer was a relatively early HVS lead for me. I only wanted to try it because I knew I'd cope with the upper wide crack (if I could get to it!). Similar with Tody's Wall, I only pushed on through that move as I knew when I got to the upper crack I'd enjoy it. Weird, but I can't think where I learnt this faith in jams from.
Post edited at 11:54
In reply to Ciderslider:
Best advice yet! If you really want it you'll get it. Get stuck in and fight.
It's not really a route to train for as it's obvious what you need to do and it just takes some growling at.
Yes people cruise it, make it look piss, bridge it facing in/out, solo
It, but they're unlikely to be HVS climbers and they're probably not Onsighting it.
Also don't wait until your ready for it, there's millions of routes out there and 3/4 of the battle for success is getting on them.
Cruising routes is all well and good but it's the ones that bite back and push you that really stick in your mind.
Get it done and post back here with your Success story
Best advice yet! If you really want it you'll get it. Get stuck in and fight.
It's not really a route to train for as it's obvious what you need to do and it just takes some growling at.
Yes people cruise it, make it look piss, bridge it facing in/out, solo
It, but they're unlikely to be HVS climbers and they're probably not Onsighting it.
Also don't wait until your ready for it, there's millions of routes out there and 3/4 of the battle for success is getting on them.
Cruising routes is all well and good but it's the ones that bite back and push you that really stick in your mind.
Get it done and post back here with your Success story
Post edited at 12:02
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
Did Kestrel Crack the other day and loved it, so more of that kind of thing (at varying levels of difficulty) sounds great, thanks.
Did Kestrel Crack the other day and loved it, so more of that kind of thing (at varying levels of difficulty) sounds great, thanks.
In reply to slab_happy:
plenty of good suggestions on the thread. Get stuck in and tell us how it goes.
If Hawks Nest Crack and Embankment 2 go ok I'd have a go at goliaths. Don't expect it to be as pleasurable experience as kestrel though. GG is not a route I'm rushing to repeat and I also liked kestrel.
plenty of good suggestions on the thread. Get stuck in and tell us how it goes.
If Hawks Nest Crack and Embankment 2 go ok I'd have a go at goliaths. Don't expect it to be as pleasurable experience as kestrel though. GG is not a route I'm rushing to repeat and I also liked kestrel.
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In reply to slab_happy:
Just wanted to say that I'm really appreciating the suggestions from everyone -- thanks and please keep 'em coming!
Just wanted to say that I'm really appreciating the suggestions from everyone -- thanks and please keep 'em coming!
In reply to slab_happy:
Kremlin Crack at Rivelin is kind of similar except its a left facing corner rather than right facing, but I think slightly easier than GG.
Kremlin Crack at Rivelin is kind of similar except its a left facing corner rather than right facing, but I think slightly easier than GG.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
That does sound perfect as a preparatory route -- similar kind of difficulty but in the context of a route that's easier overall. And I've had it recced at me multiple times anyway.
> Yeah but with hawks nest the awkward bit doesn't lead to a full body pump and the rest of the climb is just great VS climbing (especially if you like bomber jams). Also its easier to sort out the gear on Hawks nest.
That does sound perfect as a preparatory route -- similar kind of difficulty but in the context of a route that's easier overall. And I've had it recced at me multiple times anyway.
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
Yeah, do some of the hvss at ramshaw. Should sort you out. I have to say I found Right Unconquerable and Great North Road easier in terms of individual moves.
Yeah, do some of the hvss at ramshaw. Should sort you out. I have to say I found Right Unconquerable and Great North Road easier in terms of individual moves.
In reply to slab_happy:
Not really answering your question, but it reminds me of the first time I did GG. There were three of us - one jammed, one laybacked and the third bridged. I wouldn't recommend anything but the first of these on lead, though.
Not really answering your question, but it reminds me of the first time I did GG. There were three of us - one jammed, one laybacked and the third bridged. I wouldn't recommend anything but the first of these on lead, though.
In reply to slab_happy:
Don't know how polished the bottom crack and walls are these days, but I remember it as a classic top end VS with lovely variety between the two half's.
Jam and bridge the first half, then enjoy the laybacking on the second half.
A great Stanage must do.
Don't know how polished the bottom crack and walls are these days, but I remember it as a classic top end VS with lovely variety between the two half's.
Jam and bridge the first half, then enjoy the laybacking on the second half.
A great Stanage must do.
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In reply to Goucho:
I like the look of the climb and the top half is good, I just didn't enjoy the climbing on the bottom crack all the much (apart from the relief of it being over and having got up it!).
My climbing partner really disliked it (which I felt was going too far) but neither of us could see why the guide rated it as one of the best crack climbs in the country.
Give me great north road any day of the week.
I like the look of the climb and the top half is good, I just didn't enjoy the climbing on the bottom crack all the much (apart from the relief of it being over and having got up it!).
My climbing partner really disliked it (which I felt was going too far) but neither of us could see why the guide rated it as one of the best crack climbs in the country.
Give me great north road any day of the week.
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
I think it's one of those typical grit routes, where good crack climbing technique makes it enjoyable, but lack of it makes it a bit of masochistic struggle.
I'm crap at really wide offwidths, so something like Right Eliminate is my idea of a living hell
> I like the look of the climb and the top half is good, I just didn't enjoy the climbing on the bottom crack all the much (apart from the relief of it being over and having got up it!).
> My climbing partner really disliked it (which I felt was going too far) but neither of us could see why the guide rated it as one of the best crack climbs in the country.
> Give me great north road any day of the week.
I think it's one of those typical grit routes, where good crack climbing technique makes it enjoyable, but lack of it makes it a bit of masochistic struggle.
I'm crap at really wide offwidths, so something like Right Eliminate is my idea of a living hell
In reply to Goucho:
Yeah I get the feeling if I was climbing more on grit at E1 and a few more similar cracks it may get more fun. It was also one my earlier grit HVS leads I think so could explain the feeling of struggle. I did climb a lot of VS cracks before hand mind and lots of off widths. I was on a bit of an awkward grit crack mission at the time. Soon after that I decided I preferred normal climbing moves somewhat
Yeah I get the feeling if I was climbing more on grit at E1 and a few more similar cracks it may get more fun. It was also one my earlier grit HVS leads I think so could explain the feeling of struggle. I did climb a lot of VS cracks before hand mind and lots of off widths. I was on a bit of an awkward grit crack mission at the time. Soon after that I decided I preferred normal climbing moves somewhat
Post edited at 11:38
In reply to CurlyStevo:
If you want real grit crack masochism, get yourself on The Vice at Stanage End.
Even WITH good crack technique, it's still about as much fun as having a burning chair leg shoved up your arse
> Yeah I get the feeling if I was climbing more on grit at E1 and a few more similar cracks it may get more fun. It was also one my earlier grit HVS leads I think so could explain the feeling of struggle. I did climb a lot of VS cracks before hand mind and lots of off widths. I was on a bit of an awkward grit crack mission at the time. Soon after that I decided I preferred normal climbing moves somewhat
If you want real grit crack masochism, get yourself on The Vice at Stanage End.
Even WITH good crack technique, it's still about as much fun as having a burning chair leg shoved up your arse
Post edited at 11:45
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In reply to Goucho:
haha
have you ever managed to do the off width section of Valkyrie direct? If so what do you even do?
I managed the first section and straight in to valkyire crux which was really quite awkward but superb I thought, but then found my self following the original route with some rope drag.
haha
have you ever managed to do the off width section of Valkyrie direct? If so what do you even do?
I managed the first section and straight in to valkyire crux which was really quite awkward but superb I thought, but then found my self following the original route with some rope drag.
Post edited at 11:48
In reply to Goucho:
I got really lucky on The Vice and it felt proper easy. I've decided to never ever go back on it again because I just know it'll be absolute hell. It's an absolute must do Stanage Classic
> If you want real grit crack masochism, get yourself on The Vice at Stanage End.
> Even WITH good crack technique, it's still about as much fun as having a burning chair leg shoved up your arse
I got really lucky on The Vice and it felt proper easy. I've decided to never ever go back on it again because I just know it'll be absolute hell. It's an absolute must do Stanage Classic
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Swim
Wrestling with a greased pig is good training for many grit offwidths.
> haha
> have you ever managed to do the off width section of Valkyrie direct? If so what do you even do?
Swim
> I managed the first section and straight in to valkyire crux which was really quite awkward but superb I thought, but then found my self following the original route with some rope drag.
Wrestling with a greased pig is good training for many grit offwidths.
In reply to deacondeacon:
I've still got a small scar on my right hand, from a massive 'flapper' I got on the Vice.
As an angry young 16 year old turk, I was convinced the power of youth and my dazzling talent would render it a none event - half an hour later I was a whimpering child with hands that looked like they'd been through a threshing machine
> I got really lucky on The Vice and it felt proper easy. I've decided to never ever go back on it again because I just know it'll be absolute hell. It's an absolute must do Stanage Classic
I've still got a small scar on my right hand, from a massive 'flapper' I got on the Vice.
As an angry young 16 year old turk, I was convinced the power of youth and my dazzling talent would render it a none event - half an hour later I was a whimpering child with hands that looked like they'd been through a threshing machine
1
In reply to Goucho:
That is very funny !!!!!
made me laugh out loud
>
> Even WITH good crack technique, it's still about as much fun as having a burning chair leg shoved up your arse
That is very funny !!!!!
made me laugh out loud
In reply to slab_happy: When it used to be graded VS (not just the Paul Nunn guide) it felt ok at that grade - I think lots of people find it hard because they're no good at the jamming technique required. I've always found it pretty easy and wouldn't complain if it was given VS 5a - however I do appreciate that it generates a wide range of opinions; a case in point - the last time I did it in 2008 my (mainly wall trained) son tried to lead it and retreated (in disgust and blood). I then basically stuck my left foot in and cruised it - he followed and still hated it.
However, even given that some find it easy and some hard, I'm amazed at some of the "training" suggestions given. There's no way that Terezza Crack or Right Unconq are easier and personally I think things like GNR are harder as well. Just goes to show how we like (are good at) different things.
My advice - just get on it, left foot in, gear in the crack, udge up, bit more gear, udge up, repeat until you can get a hand into the crack where it becomes decent, then hey presto you're up. If you've got the technique right then it's not even that strenuous because you can stop and rest at any point. The upper layback just requires a bit of commitment but it's over pretty quickly.
However, even given that some find it easy and some hard, I'm amazed at some of the "training" suggestions given. There's no way that Terezza Crack or Right Unconq are easier and personally I think things like GNR are harder as well. Just goes to show how we like (are good at) different things.
My advice - just get on it, left foot in, gear in the crack, udge up, bit more gear, udge up, repeat until you can get a hand into the crack where it becomes decent, then hey presto you're up. If you've got the technique right then it's not even that strenuous because you can stop and rest at any point. The upper layback just requires a bit of commitment but it's over pretty quickly.
4
In reply to Michael Hood:
there is a section after you get your hand in the crack but before the rest that is the crux of the route IMO - where the jams run out
Right Unconq is defo harder IMO. For me RU is E1 and LU is HVS (5b)
there is a section after you get your hand in the crack but before the rest that is the crux of the route IMO - where the jams run out
Right Unconq is defo harder IMO. For me RU is E1 and LU is HVS (5b)
In reply to slab_happy:
Roof Route VS4c on Burbage South is a bit like the first part of GG and requires similar techniques, it's less steep but needs the same sort of determined approach.
Roof Route VS4c on Burbage South is a bit like the first part of GG and requires similar techniques, it's less steep but needs the same sort of determined approach.
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In reply to slab_happy:
To all those that suggest bridging...
Having done only a small handful of HVSs, I tried GG, went for bridging and didn't have a large cam. I fell off and went to hospital.
To all those that suggest bridging...
Having done only a small handful of HVSs, I tried GG, went for bridging and didn't have a large cam. I fell off and went to hospital.
In reply to slab_happy:
"/ Good routes to prepare for Goliath's Groove"
Goliaths Groove
sorry if that has already been done
"/ Good routes to prepare for Goliath's Groove"
Goliaths Groove
sorry if that has already been done
1
In reply to slab_happy:
I would recommend a pair of tough pants, I tore the knee and arse out off mine on GG recently .
Albert
I would recommend a pair of tough pants, I tore the knee and arse out off mine on GG recently .
Albert
In reply to wilkie14c: I think there's something at Burbage North that actually says in one of the older guidebooks (and maybe the latest as well) that it's good prep for GG - it's one of the cracks between Ace and Brooks' Layback - probably good practice to do them all
1
In reply to slab_happy:
Get Altar Crack done at Rivelin mate. If u flash that then any HVS is quite possible for u except Chequers Crack at Froggatt... that is a bastard!! LOL
Get Altar Crack done at Rivelin mate. If u flash that then any HVS is quite possible for u except Chequers Crack at Froggatt... that is a bastard!! LOL
Post edited at 23:00
1
1
In reply to Rocknast:
Chequers Crack or Tower Crack. But not really the same sort of thing as GG. Any HVS I can think of with similar sorts of moves to GG is harder than GG: Estremo and Shaftesbury Avenue at Millstomne or Surgeons Saunter.
Best advice for GG is eat red meat and just get and do it !
> Get Altar Crack done at Rivelin mate. If u flash that then any HVS is quite possible for u except Chequers Crack at Froggatt... that is a bastard!! LOL
Chequers Crack or Tower Crack. But not really the same sort of thing as GG. Any HVS I can think of with similar sorts of moves to GG is harder than GG: Estremo and Shaftesbury Avenue at Millstomne or Surgeons Saunter.
Best advice for GG is eat red meat and just get and do it !
1
In reply to Michael Hood:
This one? http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=22523
Thanks for the tip-off -- I've done its neighbour, Thrall's Thrutch (does what it says on the tin), but not that one.
> I think there's something at Burbage North that actually says in one of the older guidebooks (and maybe the latest as well) that it's good prep for GG - it's one of the cracks between Ace and Brooks' Layback - probably good practice to do them all
This one? http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=22523
Thanks for the tip-off -- I've done its neighbour, Thrall's Thrutch (does what it says on the tin), but not that one.
In reply to slab_happy:
Theres only one route to prep u for this
and its over stanage .
I believe its called the Doncaster's Route.
Theres only one route to prep u for this
and its over stanage .
I believe its called the Doncaster's Route.
1
In reply to brianjcooper:
Just wanted to let you I did Fern Crack yesterday -- I have to admit that it took me several attempts to get off the ground successfully on the start (after which I had to have a sit-down on the ledge to get my breath back ...), but after that I had a lovely time. What a smashing route! Thanks for the recommendation.
Just wanted to let you I did Fern Crack yesterday -- I have to admit that it took me several attempts to get off the ground successfully on the start (after which I had to have a sit-down on the ledge to get my breath back ...), but after that I had a lovely time. What a smashing route! Thanks for the recommendation.
3
2
In reply to slab_happy:
Inverted V is a low-end VS but with some of the same requirements of technique.
I broke a tooth leading Great Harry because the left hand side of my body was in the crack and I had to hold a piece of gear in my teeth to change my grip on it with my right hand, but chomped too hard. Was a bit stressed. Still one of my better leads, though.
Chequers Crack is just poisonous unless you have size 14 feet.
Inverted V is a low-end VS but with some of the same requirements of technique.
I broke a tooth leading Great Harry because the left hand side of my body was in the crack and I had to hold a piece of gear in my teeth to change my grip on it with my right hand, but chomped too hard. Was a bit stressed. Still one of my better leads, though.
Chequers Crack is just poisonous unless you have size 14 feet.
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